Post-Game Thread, Cleveland

[bobheckler]

I thought this would be a good article to start the post-game thread.



http://nesn.com/2015/03/brad-stevens-blasts-celtics-individual-basketball-after-rock-bottom-loss/



Brad Stevens Blasts Celtics’ ‘Individual Basketball’ After Rock-Bottom Loss


by Zack Cox on Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:28PM



Against one the NBA’s best Tuesday night, the Boston Celtics were at their very worst.

The Celtics had won seven of their previous 11 games and nearly upset the high-powered Golden State Warriors two night earlier, but they appeared overmatched in every way against a Cleveland Cavaliers team that could very well earn the Eastern Conference’s bid to the NBA Finals this spring.

The 110-79 whitewashing was the worst loss of the season for Boston and tied the largest margin of defeat in the Brad Stevens era — and it somehow wasn’t even as close as the score implies. Cleveland led by as many as 44 before calling off the dogs, and the fourth quarter featured copious amounts of Gerald Wallace, Phil Pressey and Luigi Datome.

“I told (the players) it wasn’t good enough, and it’s not OK to walk out of here thinking that, ‘That’s the best team, and you have nights like this,'” head coach Brad Stevens told reporters after the game. “We played individual basketball on both ends of the floor the whole night. And individual basketball against these guys doesn’t work, because their individuals are the best in the game. And so you had better figure out that we’ve got to play collectively on both ends.

“The way we played, it’s not right. It’s not acceptable. If we play the right way, does that mean we’re going to have a chance to win? Maybe a chance. Maybe a chance. But you play the right way anyways, because it’s the right thing to do, and we didn’t.”

All the tenets of the Celtics’ recent trend of success were absent against the Cavs. Ball movement was stagnant. LeBron James (27 points in 26 minutes) was allowed to do pretty much whatever he wanted to. The so-called “Bench Big Three” of Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder and Jonas Jerebko — an offensive force in recent games — combined to score just 20 points.

“Everybody’s been patting them on the back for the last week,” Stevens said. “That’s what happens sometimes. We’ve got to get back to being a good team.”

Discounting the JV game that was the fourth quarter, Cleveland dominated Boston in rebounding (42-28), assists (25-16), steals (8-4) and blocked shots (6-0). Thomas, whose 11 points were his fewest in a Celtics uniform, said his team “didn’t play like we wanted to win.”

“We’re just not making quick decisions,” the point guard said. “I think when we make quick decisions — whether that’s shoot, drive or pass it to another teammate — we’re very effective. I think that’s what’s worked for us. (Tuesday night), from the jump, we just didn’t make quick decisions, and the ball just stuck. And then they’re a good defensive team to where if you don’t make quick decisions, they’re just going to clog the lane and try to make you beat them.”

One loss to an elite opponent does not derail a season, but Stevens wanted his players to view this as more than a mere hiccup. Any soul-searching will have to be done quickly, though. The Celtics welcome the Utah Jazz to TD Garden on Wednesday.

“It’s important for it to hurt,” Stevens said. “It better hurt. I’ve said that all along. This is where you determine how you respond — (that’s) everything. We’ll find out a lot more about ourselves in 24 hours.”



bob



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[bobheckler]

Cleveland lost two games in a row, one to the sub-.500 #8 seed Indiana Pacers and another one to the Dwight Howard-LESS Rockets during an underachieving season despite being a team with 3 all-stars on it, including the best player on the planet.  I would have loved to read a 'Comments From The Other Side" post from the Cav fans after those two games.  Maybe we'll see some bounceback reflection in this games' 'Comments' thread later.  My point?  They are a much better team than us, having a much better season than us and they had two head-shaking losses in a row.  We lose a very competitive game to the best team in the NBA, a game we could have, should have and next year would win, and get blown out by the team that is better than us, is coming off a 2-game losing streak with the best player in the world having something to prove since he lost the last one at the line, and we're talking like we're the Boston Titanics instead of the surging Boston Celtics.  We lost a close game to the best team in basketball.  The best.  This loss, as stunning as it was, counts for no more than an OT loss by 1 point.  In fact, if anything, getting humiliated like this might be the best thing to happen to us ESPECIALLY since we haven't gotten blown out a lot this year.  There is no reason for players, nor fans, to look at this game as being "business as usual".  I agree with Brad, the next 24 hours will tell us a lot more than last night did.

1.  LBJ came into this game with blood-in-his-eyes.  He accepted full responsibility for losing the last game vs Rockets.  That was not going to happen again if he had to play all 48.  The only thing that is out-of-perspective here is that Jae Crowder didn't play more minutes trying to defend Raging Bull.  He's the only one with the speed and anywhere near the size to stay in front of LeBron.  Not that it would have mattered, not last night.  LeBron now has a turnaround baseline fade away jumpshot?  Man, that just isn't fair.

2.  The Cav's center corp scored 15 points and had 8 rebounds, total.  Perk's 5 points, on butt-ugly 2-7 shooting, came deep into garbage time against Shavlik Randolph.  As far as Mozgov goes, ask yourself this; "how many of those points did he create for himself"?  Two of his points came on a layup when Irving penetrated and Mozgov's man had to switch to pick him up.  Credit to Kyrie for the nice pass but our problems began with the penetration, not on the layup.  He got another two points because he got into the lane 5' from the basket and Tyler Zeller was still behind him instead of sliding around him to 3/4 front him and make the entry pass more difficult.  There aren't many centers in this league including, it appears, destined-to-be-perennial-backup Tyler Zeller that can't score from 5' out.  Ok, maybe not Perk, but everybody else can.  Even Kyrie Irving hit a baby hook shot in the lane last night.  You don't have to be the Jolly Green Giant to sink it from there.  Score Mozgov, courtesy of passive defense by Zeller.  Another two points came because LeBron created a switch and Jerebko, who had been guarding the bigger Mozgov, had to pop out and take LeBron while the player who had been guarding LeBron, Evan Turner, was dug in underneath the basket trying to box Mozgov out.  Jerebko forced LeBron into a fallback jumper which was short and fell into Mozgov's hands.  If that ball goes over the rim, or even hits the front of the rim and bounces away from the basket, Mozgov gets nothing.  Mozgov offense-by-accident.  There's 6 of Mozgov's 10 points, right off the top of my head, that any player could have scored on.  He's credited with 3 blocks but, to be honest, I don't remember them.  The only bullshot, like we got used to seeing from Sully on a nightly basis, I saw last night was by Perk against Shav.  We got killed by LeBron and Kyrie, with Smith and Love throwing some in from outside.  Do we need a rim protector/baseline defender?  Absolutely, but we did not get out-bulled or shot-over much.  We got penetrated and dished on, which created opportunities inside for layups and offensive rebounds.

3.  The two Celtic rotation players who showed up last night were Steady Eddy and Turner.  Bass led the Celtics with 15 points on 7-15, including the newest weapon in his arsenal, a corner 3.  If it comes down to it this offseason, Brandon or Jonas?  That's tough.  Jerebko shows great promise, has better range on his shot and looks really good but Bass is as reliable as a tide table.  I've been down on Evan Turnover but he has had a few good weeks.  What's causing that?  Maybe it's the addition of Isaiah Thomas.  Turner used to bring the ball up court almost exclusively, now Thomas does that.  Turner used to be responsible for creating the offensive flow, now Thomas does that and Turner can feed off it.  Over the past 5 games Evan Turner's numbers are 7.6ppg, 7.4rpg, 6.8apg and 1.8TOpg in 30.4mpg.  Season-to-date he has been averaging 8.7ppg, 5.0rpg, 5.0apg but 2.4TOpg in 26.4mpg.  Slightly less points per game but more rebounds, more assists and fewer turnovers in more minutes.  

4.  Do we really want Kevin Love?  Do we really?  If our problem is lack of inside presence he is not the answer.  Four of his 12 points were in the paint.  With all the sugar being passed around by LeBron, Kyrie and Dellavedova Kevin Love gets 4 points inside.  Not one offensive rebound.  I don't remember a single tough, rugged defensive rebound either.

5.  Does Iman Shumpert really think wearing his hair like that will fool opposing players into thinking he's taller?  How about wind resistance?



6.  Shav had 4 points, 4 rebounds, 2 of them offensive, a block, an assist, a steal and no TOs in 13 minutes.  He always seemed to be around the ball.  I don't know how he does it and why he didn't get more minutes with Kelly out.  He's efficient, if not prolific.

7.  James or Gigi?  Not much else to talk about with this game so why not?  It is becoming clear to me that James Young is a one-trick pony.  He is a catch-and-shoot 3pt shooter.  I see no evidence of confident ball-handling.  For an undersized SF at 6'6" that could be a career-inhibitor.  As a SG, he would definitely need to be able to do that.  3 of his 9 points came because defensively-challenged, and now deep-bencher, Mike Miller fouled him on a 3pt attempt in garbage time.  At the end of 3 quarters James Young had played 9 minutes and was 0-1 from the field with goose eggs the rest of the way across.  So, all his points came against the end of the Cav's bench in garbage time and they were all off of 3s, either directly or indirectly.  Datome hit a 3.  He also hit a running 2pt bank shot going left shooting right (not an easy shot) and glided in on a baseline drive for a layup.  In other words, he showed some offensive versatility.  Defensively, they both suck but last night was Gigi's only 15 minutes of Celtic fame.  James has been averaging 15mpg over the past 10 games and averaged 3.8ppg on 29% shooting and has given up many points because of poor defense.  Yeah, I know he's only 19 but if you can't play with the big dogs then stay on the porch (or go to Maine and play with smaller dogs until you can).

8.  The book is out on Isaiah Thomas.  Put a long SG on him because he's bothered by length, not speed.  4-13 for Isaiah.  He's not penetrating like he did last week.  People are setting screens for him, he's just not coming off them as aggressively.  That must change.

9.  We take too many 3s?  We took the same number as Cleveland, 28, they just hit more of theirs.  They hit more of their 2s too.  The past couple of weeks, when we were all on Cloud 9, we were raining 3s.  That's the way things happen with low-percentage offensive plays.  You're hot, you're not, you're hot again.  Is there any doubt, though, we are a better 3pt shooting team now?  We lost Thornton and Green and Rondo, true, but we gained Thomas, Jerebko and Datome; ALL of whom can shoot 3s.  For the record, we are 12th in the league in 3pt fg% at 32.9%.  Post all-star game we are still 12th, but our 3pt fg% is up to 34%.  We've had a few bad games but our roster is playing better.


Great teams come out spitting mad after a loss and practically deranged after 2 straight.  Good teams come out determined.  We just lost 2, one of which was a close game to the best team in basketball and the second one in a rare blowout to a team that had just lost two and was playing at home.  A loss to the best, and an anomaly on the road.  Time to step back from the ledge and see how we respond against a team we can and should beat tonight.  There is still plenty of time to proclaim the sky is falling later.  See you all on the Game On thread.  That's what fans do.


bob


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[cowens/oldschool]

Good post bob on your points on 2, Mozgov still went 5-6 from the field which is very good, I'm not a mathematician, but its close to 90%. Even if it wasn't Mozgov creating the shot on his own, good big defenders, which we don't have can still help with the guard/wing penetration and have another big to watch their back and help cover if the ball goes elsewhere, which we also don't have....just sayin.

Lets get another guard.

[Sam]

During the second half of the Warriors game, I got just the faintest little feeling that the fantastic first-quarter success of the Celtics had resulted (along with a big lead) in their becoming just a bit self-satisfied that they could treat basketball as a sort of individual shooting range.  More than that, I couldn't keep the thought out of my mind that, given the slightest provocation, Isaiah Thomas could become the poster boy for that kind of orientation.

We all know that he plays a lot of iso ball, and we've all realized (rationalized?) that it's for a worthy cause because, in addition to providing scoring during situations in which the Celtics offense could have been moribund, his offensive production can open up scoring opportunities for his teammates.

But the other side of that coin is that there is a time and place for everything.  Entering a game with an assumption that iso ball is a universal panacea can lead to disaster, especially if the central proponent is a midget who can be neutralized under certain conditions.

I'm hoping their last six quarters of basketball may have had a sobering effect among Brad and his minions, to the effect that they will begin to subscribe to more selective use of iso ball in harnessing their collective and individual approaches to the game.  

Frankly, Isaiah's very open statement that he wants to be the hero curdled my blood just a bit.  (I went to the same nunnery that Robin Hood used, had my blood replaces, and I hope to be okay soon.)  I can think of a lot of alternative ways in which I would have preferred that statement had been worded.  For instance, John Havlicek's statement that, when the Celtics lost "we considered it a mistake" spoke volumes about their confidence but very importantly used the word "we" rather than the word "I."

There are many forms of leadership.  I believe Isaiah has the talent to be a valued leader on this team.  But "leadership" need not be synonymous with hero ball, which I believe has no legitimate place on the Boston Celtics.

In my book, "leadership" means continuing to play a team game but to set the example by trying harder to galvanize the entire team rather than taking all the responsibility oneself.  I'm hoping the most recent six quarters, perhaps along with some tactful reminders by Brad Stevens, will start Isaiah on the road to realizing the distinction and to benefit (along with the team) from the realization.

If Isaiah wants to become a hero, I offer him the entire defensive end of the floor on which to do it.  Because it doesn't take a genius to realize that the real underlying problem against the Warriors and Cavs was defense (or lack of it) first and offense only as an unfortunate residue of the lack of dynamic defense.  At their current level of talent, this is a team that must rely on defense to fuel the offense.

And one final element of this way of thinking.  While my comments mostly involve Isaiah, my concerns are really much broader.  Just as great defense can become infectious, so can a default to three-point shooting at times when the team is out of rhythm and desperately needs easier shots to regain their instinctive flow and "touch."  I'm at least as worried about the Jekyll/Hyde performances of guys like Crowder, Jerebko, Smart, Turner, and (to a slightly lesser extent, Bradley)—all of whom seemed to find it very natural to unleash the howitzers when the momentum turned against them.  (I'd include Young among that bunch if I thought he should still be playing in Boston rather than Maine.)

How about it, Isaiah?  Is it possible to think of these six quarters as a signal about the fact that the way you can best help your team is not necessarily just to amp up your efforts in futility but, rather, to become an actual leader?  The ball is in your court.

Go Celtics!  As a team!

Sam

[bobheckler]

Good post bob on your points on 2, Mozgov still went 5-6 from the field which is very good, I'm not a mathematician, but its close to 90%. Even if it wasn't Mozgov creating the shot on his own, good big defenders, which we don't have can still help with the guard/wing penetration and have another big to watch their back and help cover if the ball goes elsewhere, which we also don't have....just sayin.

Lets get another guard.

cow,

87.5% to be precise.

Yeah, we need a starting center, no doubt about it.  Zeller ain't it.  I'd even take a shot-blocking toothpick right now, we need some shot intimidation. We need a baseline defender, like you said.

Last night not included, we're playing well now.  We have obvious holes in our roster that need to be addressed this summer.  Danny, for the first time maybe ever, has the assets and cap space to do that.

This time last year we didn't have a center at all.  This year we have Zeller.  That's an improvement.  Mission Accomplished?  Not even close, but it does fill a hole we had.

We need time and talent.  Danny had everybody's heads spinning this year, we finally have a month or two for these guys to gel (or not), produce (or not) and show they belong (or not).  Lots of expiring contracts coming up which we have seen Danny repeatedly turn into something (e.g. expired contract Kris Humphries for a 2nd round pick, expired contract Von Wafer (who was already playing in Italy) to Orlando with Big Baby for Bass, Thornton for Thomas).  This summer we'll have Bass, Jerebko, Datome and Shav as expired contracts and Wallace will be in his last year.  That's $14.5M worth of expired contracts coming off the books but that could be rolled into something like with Hump.  I don't know about Jerebko and Datome, but we definitely own the Bird Rights on Bass and that gives Danny an edge if he wants to sign-and-trade him. While I appreciate what Crash has done for us I would like to see him traded and next year becomes the first realistic opportunity to do that. By the time the trade deadline comes next year his new club will only owe him $5M (half his $10M will be left) but he can produce $10M worth of incoming trade value.

Danny had Big Al to offer and that was about it. Granted, we don't have anybody on the squad now that is Al's equal to offer (maybe Sully if he hadn't broke his foot, highlighting his weight problem), but he has a much wider selection of weapons to use now.


bob



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[cowens/oldschool]

bob Gobert just ate up and spit out Marc Gasol last night, this kid is gonna be such a beast, frustrating knowing I had him pegged in green.....just sayin

[bobheckler]

bob Gobert just ate up and spit out Marc Gasol last night, this kid is gonna be such a beast, frustrating knowing I had him pegged in green.....just sayin

cow,

I hear ya buddy, I had him in my sights too.

You think you're frustrated? Imagine what Nugget fans must be thinking. Denver drafted Gobert 27th and traded him on draft night for #46 pick Erick Green + cash!


bob



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