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Post-Game Thread, Bucks - Away
by bobheckler Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:21 pm
This was a game that had no significance, playoff-wise, for either team. We were locked in at 7th and their fate was to be decided by the outcomes of the Chicago and Toronto games. Maybe it meant a little more to Milwaukee since last night was "Fan Appreciation" night there, with management and players thanking the fans for their support. I'm sure they would have liked to send them home a touch happier. Fortunately, the Celtics never got the memo.
Dudley got the night off and Bayless is out with a sore neck but other than that, all the Bucks played. For us, Crowder and Bradley and Thomas and Babb didn't play (poor Chris). Our starting SG, our bench glue guy and our top scorer all sat out.
Ilyasova - 26mpg last 10 games, 26 minutes this game.
Greek Freak - 31mpg last 10 games, 29 minutes this game.
Pachulia - 25mpg last 10 games, 15 this game.
Carter-Williams - 29mpg last 10 games, 22 this game.
Middleton - 32mpg last 10 games, 21 this game.
Mayo - 24mpg last 10 games, 26 this game.
So, 3 of Milwaukee's top 6 players played normal minutes and 3 played lighter minutes. Not exactly "taking the night off".
For us:
Bass - 24mpg last 10 games, 14 minutes this game
Gigi - Fugettboutit. 27 minutes this game
Zeller - 22mpg last 10 games, 14 minutes this game
Smart - 29mpg last 10 games, 24 minutes this game
Turner - 30mpg last 10 games, 18 this game
In fact Gerald Wallace, at 14 minutes, is the only bench player who played less than 22 minutes. We went DEEP bench.
My point is that, while they played a lot of their starters close to normal minutes, we did not. And we still beat them. In Milwaukee. With 3 of our top six or seven players in street clothes or back in Boston. Our 7th straight road win going back to March 23rd. And they are the #6 team in the EC. We are surging at precisely the right time.
Sam has already touched on our assist-fgm ratio on another thread. The ball was really moving last night and so were we. I know I'm getting a little giddy here, but the plays look very Spurs-like. The weave around the top until a player drops down into the paint to receive an entry pass. If he's open he keeps going if not he becomes, in essence, a mid-high post and quickly passes out to another player coming round on the weave. If a pick is set the drive goes until the defense collapses on him and then he kicks out to a shooter. Really beautiful basketball. Doc's game relied heavily upon the talents and experience of his superstars. Brad's relies heavily on motion. It's like a chessmaster vs a Go master. In Go, you place stones on the board with the intention of surrounding your opponent's stones. Once you do that you take their stones off the board and the owner of more space on the board when everybody is out of stones is the winner. All stones are equal, as opposed to chess where the queen is more powerful than the rook which is more powerful, etc. (In a historical note: Chess was designed in western Europe when there were knights and foot soldiers and all kinds of politics going on. Mao Zedung was a highly accomplished Go player. All his soldiers were peasants, but he had lots of them, so he used them to swarm his opponents). Brad runs the plays and maybe it's Evan Turner, who is not one of our better shooters, who is getting the shot on the ATO and sometimes it is Jae Crowder, who is also not a high percentage shooter. Doc would have run an iso through Pierce. Every time. I'm not knocking Doc, he has had a lot of success in his coaching career (Champion, COY) but I think he'd be dying with this roster. No superstars he can just give the ball to and say "we live or die with you". Thomas is the closest Brad has, but that's not his way. Brad's way is both old school, like the old Celtics, and new school like the Spurs.
1. At the beginning of the Game On thread I said I hoped Gigi would drop 30 on them. He made a liar out of me, he only scored 22 on 9-15 and 3-7 from 3. He started off looking VERY rocky. He passed up an open shot so he could dribble into a double-team and get stripped by Zaza Pachulia. Then, he started hitting. I've harped on Smart's shooting mechanics and how he has too much motion in his arm and relies too much on his legs and have swooned over Ray Allen and Curry's shooting mechanics, and how the ball just gets dribbled harder so it comes up and is gone with not much more motion than a flick of the wrist and a moderate jump. Gigi's is more like Curry's than Smart's, and that's why he's such a good shooter. The ball comes up, minimal arm-cock and it's gone. The ball does not get drawn back behind his head like Smart does. With both Curry and Gigi, the shooting motion appears effortless and, most importantly, easily reproducible. His defense is still quite iffy, he'll have to develop some religion there, but his offense is there and then some. If this wasn't his NBA career-high it had to be very close. He is a great catch-and-shoot option.
2. Sully looks awful. Whatever athleticism he had is gone. He has zero lift. Zero. He was 5-14 and 1-3 from 3. So, that's 4-11 from 2 and that's pretty bad for a player whose game is inside. He took 5 shots from the left side of the court from 2 and missed them all. The two he took from the right side he hit, but it wasn't until the 4th quarter that he took them. I don't know if it is Sully or Brad that had him keep taking shots from the side he was missing from. 4 rebounds in 28 minutes is very un-Sully like. Tommy said that Sully is one game away from being back in shape. Yeah, and one burrito away from amassing his own gravitational field. Kids aren't running around you because they like you, Sully, they're running around you because they're trapped in orbit around you. Somehow he got credited with 3 blocks. Don't ask me how or where. I've been a BIG fan of Sully's since he came in the league. Bruising big men are my type of players. I am so disappointed in where he is at in his development right now. He was always big but now he's this liftless, lumbering leviathon.
3. And Jonas Jerebko is eating his lunch. He has such a lively body (as opposed to Stegasaurus Sulliinger). He chases balls down. He's a quick leaper to get fingers on them. He is quick enough to get steals and can dribble fast enough to lead a break (although he doesn't usually). Last night he made a steal and went down court for a dunk, which missed because it hit the back of the rim, but he took it all the way. Jerebko's game is perfect for Brad's system. Sully? Not so much and Danny is quite aware not only of Sully's lack of conditioning but of his non-chalant dedication to it over the last off-season.
4. Khris Middleton was as hot as anybody I've seen recently. 8-10 for 18 points (13 in the first quarter on a perfect 6-6) but only played 6 minutes in the 2nd half. Rumor is that Danny is going to take a run at him this off-season. I sure liked what I saw last night. He's listed by ESPN as a SG. A 6'7" SG? I guess when you have the 6'11" Greek Freak playing SF you can move Middleton to SG. Between Turner, Crowder and, if we get Middleton, there is no room for James Young.
5. Young had a few moments. He ran the floor for a fast break nicely. He had a nice inside out pass to Jerebko for an assist on a 3ptr. He deflected a pass nicely. He also continued to have his problems on defense. Don't they teach defense in Maine?
6. Smart with 6 assists and only 1 TO. That's a nice part-time, quasi-PG boxscore. Defensively, of course, he was a complete disruptor. 3 steals last night, averaging 2.0pg over the past 10 games. At 1.5pg season-to-date he is in 26th place league-wide. At 2.0pg he would be in 5th. Not too shabby for a rook. Like the rest of the team he is stepping up in the last half of this season. ROY? Probably not, but still looking good as a draft pick.
If you told me we'd still be playing after the 82nd game 6 months ago I'd have laughed my ass off. Well, I am laughing, just not for the same reason. 40 wins, 40-42. That is nothing short of amazing after winning only 25 games last year and having the roster turnover we've had this year.
Now, our band of brothers get to cut their playoff teeth. Our sophomore coach gets to experience the real thing. Remember last year? Remember how Brad looked a bit like a deer caught in headlights from time to time? Remember how some of us were pointing out how "The Butler Way" had yet to be proven it will translate to the pro game? Now look at this year. He has really flattened that learning curve out impressively. This was, effectively, a throwaway year. We were expecting to suck. Better than last year, but not hugely so. Neither Isaiah Thomas, Jonas Jerebko, Gigi, Zeller, Kelly and Brad have any playoff experience. None. Crowder has only 81 minutes of playoff experience. Every minute of experience they get in this throwaway year will produce dividends next year. Getting playoff experience, even if you get blowtorched, is still part of a rebuild. You cannot count on getting Bird, McHale and Parish in a year or two and going from bottom to top right away, you have to get blooded first and that's what the next 4-7 games (hopefully more, but I'm not betting on it) are about. It's a necessary part of the rebuild.
And we're just wrapping up year 2 of a minimum 3-5 year rebuild. If Danny can get us some length for next year I'm predicting we will see a big leap up, since that is our most obvious, glaring weakness. Fix that and we're percolatin'.
bob
.
Dudley got the night off and Bayless is out with a sore neck but other than that, all the Bucks played. For us, Crowder and Bradley and Thomas and Babb didn't play (poor Chris). Our starting SG, our bench glue guy and our top scorer all sat out.
Ilyasova - 26mpg last 10 games, 26 minutes this game.
Greek Freak - 31mpg last 10 games, 29 minutes this game.
Pachulia - 25mpg last 10 games, 15 this game.
Carter-Williams - 29mpg last 10 games, 22 this game.
Middleton - 32mpg last 10 games, 21 this game.
Mayo - 24mpg last 10 games, 26 this game.
So, 3 of Milwaukee's top 6 players played normal minutes and 3 played lighter minutes. Not exactly "taking the night off".
For us:
Bass - 24mpg last 10 games, 14 minutes this game
Gigi - Fugettboutit. 27 minutes this game
Zeller - 22mpg last 10 games, 14 minutes this game
Smart - 29mpg last 10 games, 24 minutes this game
Turner - 30mpg last 10 games, 18 this game
In fact Gerald Wallace, at 14 minutes, is the only bench player who played less than 22 minutes. We went DEEP bench.
My point is that, while they played a lot of their starters close to normal minutes, we did not. And we still beat them. In Milwaukee. With 3 of our top six or seven players in street clothes or back in Boston. Our 7th straight road win going back to March 23rd. And they are the #6 team in the EC. We are surging at precisely the right time.
Sam has already touched on our assist-fgm ratio on another thread. The ball was really moving last night and so were we. I know I'm getting a little giddy here, but the plays look very Spurs-like. The weave around the top until a player drops down into the paint to receive an entry pass. If he's open he keeps going if not he becomes, in essence, a mid-high post and quickly passes out to another player coming round on the weave. If a pick is set the drive goes until the defense collapses on him and then he kicks out to a shooter. Really beautiful basketball. Doc's game relied heavily upon the talents and experience of his superstars. Brad's relies heavily on motion. It's like a chessmaster vs a Go master. In Go, you place stones on the board with the intention of surrounding your opponent's stones. Once you do that you take their stones off the board and the owner of more space on the board when everybody is out of stones is the winner. All stones are equal, as opposed to chess where the queen is more powerful than the rook which is more powerful, etc. (In a historical note: Chess was designed in western Europe when there were knights and foot soldiers and all kinds of politics going on. Mao Zedung was a highly accomplished Go player. All his soldiers were peasants, but he had lots of them, so he used them to swarm his opponents). Brad runs the plays and maybe it's Evan Turner, who is not one of our better shooters, who is getting the shot on the ATO and sometimes it is Jae Crowder, who is also not a high percentage shooter. Doc would have run an iso through Pierce. Every time. I'm not knocking Doc, he has had a lot of success in his coaching career (Champion, COY) but I think he'd be dying with this roster. No superstars he can just give the ball to and say "we live or die with you". Thomas is the closest Brad has, but that's not his way. Brad's way is both old school, like the old Celtics, and new school like the Spurs.
1. At the beginning of the Game On thread I said I hoped Gigi would drop 30 on them. He made a liar out of me, he only scored 22 on 9-15 and 3-7 from 3. He started off looking VERY rocky. He passed up an open shot so he could dribble into a double-team and get stripped by Zaza Pachulia. Then, he started hitting. I've harped on Smart's shooting mechanics and how he has too much motion in his arm and relies too much on his legs and have swooned over Ray Allen and Curry's shooting mechanics, and how the ball just gets dribbled harder so it comes up and is gone with not much more motion than a flick of the wrist and a moderate jump. Gigi's is more like Curry's than Smart's, and that's why he's such a good shooter. The ball comes up, minimal arm-cock and it's gone. The ball does not get drawn back behind his head like Smart does. With both Curry and Gigi, the shooting motion appears effortless and, most importantly, easily reproducible. His defense is still quite iffy, he'll have to develop some religion there, but his offense is there and then some. If this wasn't his NBA career-high it had to be very close. He is a great catch-and-shoot option.
2. Sully looks awful. Whatever athleticism he had is gone. He has zero lift. Zero. He was 5-14 and 1-3 from 3. So, that's 4-11 from 2 and that's pretty bad for a player whose game is inside. He took 5 shots from the left side of the court from 2 and missed them all. The two he took from the right side he hit, but it wasn't until the 4th quarter that he took them. I don't know if it is Sully or Brad that had him keep taking shots from the side he was missing from. 4 rebounds in 28 minutes is very un-Sully like. Tommy said that Sully is one game away from being back in shape. Yeah, and one burrito away from amassing his own gravitational field. Kids aren't running around you because they like you, Sully, they're running around you because they're trapped in orbit around you. Somehow he got credited with 3 blocks. Don't ask me how or where. I've been a BIG fan of Sully's since he came in the league. Bruising big men are my type of players. I am so disappointed in where he is at in his development right now. He was always big but now he's this liftless, lumbering leviathon.
3. And Jonas Jerebko is eating his lunch. He has such a lively body (as opposed to Stegasaurus Sulliinger). He chases balls down. He's a quick leaper to get fingers on them. He is quick enough to get steals and can dribble fast enough to lead a break (although he doesn't usually). Last night he made a steal and went down court for a dunk, which missed because it hit the back of the rim, but he took it all the way. Jerebko's game is perfect for Brad's system. Sully? Not so much and Danny is quite aware not only of Sully's lack of conditioning but of his non-chalant dedication to it over the last off-season.
4. Khris Middleton was as hot as anybody I've seen recently. 8-10 for 18 points (13 in the first quarter on a perfect 6-6) but only played 6 minutes in the 2nd half. Rumor is that Danny is going to take a run at him this off-season. I sure liked what I saw last night. He's listed by ESPN as a SG. A 6'7" SG? I guess when you have the 6'11" Greek Freak playing SF you can move Middleton to SG. Between Turner, Crowder and, if we get Middleton, there is no room for James Young.
5. Young had a few moments. He ran the floor for a fast break nicely. He had a nice inside out pass to Jerebko for an assist on a 3ptr. He deflected a pass nicely. He also continued to have his problems on defense. Don't they teach defense in Maine?
6. Smart with 6 assists and only 1 TO. That's a nice part-time, quasi-PG boxscore. Defensively, of course, he was a complete disruptor. 3 steals last night, averaging 2.0pg over the past 10 games. At 1.5pg season-to-date he is in 26th place league-wide. At 2.0pg he would be in 5th. Not too shabby for a rook. Like the rest of the team he is stepping up in the last half of this season. ROY? Probably not, but still looking good as a draft pick.
If you told me we'd still be playing after the 82nd game 6 months ago I'd have laughed my ass off. Well, I am laughing, just not for the same reason. 40 wins, 40-42. That is nothing short of amazing after winning only 25 games last year and having the roster turnover we've had this year.
Now, our band of brothers get to cut their playoff teeth. Our sophomore coach gets to experience the real thing. Remember last year? Remember how Brad looked a bit like a deer caught in headlights from time to time? Remember how some of us were pointing out how "The Butler Way" had yet to be proven it will translate to the pro game? Now look at this year. He has really flattened that learning curve out impressively. This was, effectively, a throwaway year. We were expecting to suck. Better than last year, but not hugely so. Neither Isaiah Thomas, Jonas Jerebko, Gigi, Zeller, Kelly and Brad have any playoff experience. None. Crowder has only 81 minutes of playoff experience. Every minute of experience they get in this throwaway year will produce dividends next year. Getting playoff experience, even if you get blowtorched, is still part of a rebuild. You cannot count on getting Bird, McHale and Parish in a year or two and going from bottom to top right away, you have to get blooded first and that's what the next 4-7 games (hopefully more, but I'm not betting on it) are about. It's a necessary part of the rebuild.
And we're just wrapping up year 2 of a minimum 3-5 year rebuild. If Danny can get us some length for next year I'm predicting we will see a big leap up, since that is our most obvious, glaring weakness. Fix that and we're percolatin'.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 61561
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Post-Game Thread, Bucks - Away
by beat Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:32 pm
We have been in MEATLOAF mode the past 36 games.
Winning 24 losing 12.
2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Last night when called upon every darn C has a pretty fair night. Seems to be that way more than not.
I have enjoyed watching the development of this and the growth of the coach. And to be able to go to the playoffs WOW
And best news of all Marcus and I will be there watching GAME #3 live !!!
If by some crazy chance we can get a split in Cleveland 3 could be the most important game of the series. I like it that Stevens has a few days to prepare a game plan too. Might not prevail but damn it we get the chance and who would have thunk that 3 months ago !!
beat
Winning 24 losing 12.
2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Last night when called upon every darn C has a pretty fair night. Seems to be that way more than not.
I have enjoyed watching the development of this and the growth of the coach. And to be able to go to the playoffs WOW
And best news of all Marcus and I will be there watching GAME #3 live !!!
If by some crazy chance we can get a split in Cleveland 3 could be the most important game of the series. I like it that Stevens has a few days to prepare a game plan too. Might not prevail but damn it we get the chance and who would have thunk that 3 months ago !!
beat
beat- Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 70
Re: Post-Game Thread, Bucks - Away
by worcester Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:27 pm
It was rough sledding before the Rondo trade. We were 10/14 through December 19. Then it was even rough sledding for a while after that trade. We went 6/16. Eventually Brad righted the ship with a 24/12 finish and we sailed into the playoffs. Great work Captain Stevens!
worcester- Posts : 11573
Join date : 2009-10-31
Age : 77
Re: Post-Game Thread, Bucks - Away
by Berlin-T Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:31 pm
It's amazing to me how it doesn't seem to matter who is on the floor and who is on the bench. We have interchangeable moving parts and we just keep on winning. That is a tribute to Brad Stevens and to the players, all of them who have checked their egos at the door and bought into Brad's system. As one old enough to remember the Russell, Cowens and Bird teams I am reliving déjà vu all over again (as Yogi Berra put it) and am having one hell of a good time.
No matter how the series with Cleveland plays out - I would be happy with a win, very happy with two wins, delirious with three wins and comatose with four - I am really grateful to Danny, Brad and the team for a wonderful year of exciting team-first basketball.
Go Celtics!
Berlin-T
No matter how the series with Cleveland plays out - I would be happy with a win, very happy with two wins, delirious with three wins and comatose with four - I am really grateful to Danny, Brad and the team for a wonderful year of exciting team-first basketball.
Go Celtics!
Berlin-T
Berlin-T- Posts : 5140
Join date : 2010-02-01
Re: Post-Game Thread, Bucks - Away
by dboss Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:42 pm
Berlin-T wrote:It's amazing to me how it doesn't seem to matter who is on the floor and who is on the bench. We have interchangeable moving parts and we just keep on winning. That is a tribute to Brad Stevens and to the players, all of them who have checked their egos at the door and bought into Brad's system. As one old enough to remember the Russell, Cowens and Bird teams I am reliving déjà vu all over again (as Yogi Berra put it) and am having one hell of a good time.
No matter how the series with Cleveland plays out - I would be happy with a win, very happy with two wins, delirious with three wins and comatose with four - I am really grateful to Danny, Brad and the team for a wonderful year of exciting team-first basketball.
Go Celtics!
Berlin-T
Berlin
I mentioned in another thread that the Celtics are becoming a Plug & Play team. There is a developing system in place that blurs the identities of the participants.
The other very impressive stat is the 7th straight road win by the Celtics.
And the Celtics record on the 2nd game of back to back games is also very impressive and reflects a mental toughness that defies the amount of time that this team has been playing together.
it seems like every game someone else is carrying the load.
dboss
dboss- Posts : 18800
Join date : 2009-11-01
Re: Post-Game Thread, Bucks - Away
by worcester Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:03 pm
But Berlin-T, think of how much fun you could be having watching them lose 50, 60, or 70 games to vie for the top lottery spot; and then you'd have the pleasure of getting to hold your breath for months hoping to get Towns or Okafor. Also - IF the Celts got a top lottery pick - you'd get to experience the anxiety/expectation of waiting for a year or more with fingers crossed, praying that the rookie would dramatically improve the Celtics record...say by 15 or so extra wins! Hope, expectation, prayer - all for the tanking.
Oh wait, that's what we got with Brad this year as he won 15 extra games!
Oh wait, that's what we got with Brad this year as he won 15 extra games!
worcester- Posts : 11573
Join date : 2009-10-31
Age : 77
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