KNICK CELTIC DEAL FINALIZED - MULTIPLE PLAYERS

Here's the deal fellas. Ray Allen can flat ball. Rosalie has been telling us.

Kevin Martin aint in the same zip code.

The Celts are goin to make a push.

babyskyhook wrote:

Jerry Tarkanian wrote:

Agreed we can let him go and then re-sign him to the MLE, perhaps, if we so choose. It would preclude signing a younger player, however.

Tark- you don't need to let Ray go. You have his Bird rights. You're going to be over the cap anyway. So you can sign him for whatever you can mutually agree to and still use your MLE to bring in another player.

You would only need to use the MLE to re-sign him if for some reason they renounced his rights (which they would never do.)

So it's not as dark as you think.

bsh,

Good analysis. Bird, Bird, Bird....Bird is the word!!!

Oh yeah, if Ray can get more from another team than the Celtics want to pay, they can use his Bird rights and do a sign-and-trade. Ray gets the contract he wants (just a for instance here, not predicting) and the Celtics get a good player in his stead. That option will bring back value. Keeping Ray past the deadline doesn't end all the possibilities.

gyso

cowens/oldschool wrote:baby that was great analysis earlier in thread,boy am I glad we didn't trade Perk

Cow- I can't believe you guys were really thinking about it, but I guess familiarity breeds contempt.



I get how people get frustrated with certain players. I would trade Bynum for Bosh or for a combo of Noah and Hinrich, but that's b/c I think either deal would be a big upgrade. Plus, the Lakers have more pieces to deal with than the Cs do at the moment, so they can afford to deal BYnum for the right assets.

I get Bynum's flaws, and he frustrates me, but I appreciate what he brings (and his upside). UNless there is a big-time upgrade to be had by trading him, I'd rather keep him.


So that's why I was so surprised to see some of you guys being ready to deal Perk and Ray for Monta and Biedrins (or Kmart and Hawes). Yikes!

I would have loved to see the reaction on the Laker boards if either of those doozies had gone down.

bsh,

Good analysis. Bird, Bird, Bird....Bird is the word!!!

Oh yeah, if Ray can get more from another team than the Celtics want to pay, they can use his Bird rights and do a sign-and-trade. Ray gets the contract he wants (just a for instance here, not predicting) and the Celtics get a good player in his stead. That option will bring back value. Keeping Ray past the deadline doesn't end all the possibilities.

gyso

Thanks, but you must admit.............keeping Ray beyond the deadline does MINIMIZE our options. We apparently have a disagreement over value of Martin. Seems someone in Houston , at least, felt as I do, and likely many others. And I DO hope it all works out. Believe with a better strategy we might have avoided a rebuilding process the present plan will require.

Peace,

Tark

Martin was included in the deal for the deadline's GREATEST trading chip, and was a necessary component for McGrady to be moved. As I've stated, and not just my opinion, Martin holds greater value outside the Metro Boston area.

Hoping KG continues to look well,

Tark

Tark,

With all due respect (and that's not just a throwaway phrase), I don't empathize with what seems almost an ongoing preoccupation on setting an early stage for rebuilding. I see it as a constant invitation to be a bridesmaid and never quite being the bride.

As far as I'm concerned, if a team has a sniff of the championship, they should shoot for the championship. The recent trading frenzy at the deadline underscored how many opportunities there are to make quick and significant rebuilding adjustments if your team is obviously not going to contend. Maybe the adjustments take a year to come to fruition; maybe they do it more quickly. Who cares? In this day and age, no team is going to win the championship every single year.

What is needed in order to make those adjustments on a reasonably successful basis are two things: (1) operating from a position of strength and (2) assets. A major strength involves being a desirable destination for players from other teams. Assets come in many shapes and forms. Gyso had just expounded on how the same player can represent three different types of trading assets, under a variety of conditions, in the same season.

Three years ago, the Celtics were lacking requirement #1. No one wanted to come to Boston. They had not one name player other than Pierce who would fetch a lot in trade; yet they were able to trade away several fledgling assets simultaneously to get two pieces who almost instantly transformed the team into a championship group. They had a guy named Ratliff, who was constantly injured and was a shell of his former self. Yet his contract became a valuable trading chip.

Now they're operating more from a position of strength. They have the aura of being a contender or not more than one player away from being a contender. They're a desirable destination for many players on other teams, which means a lot. They also have a lot of assets. From year to year, the nature of those assets shifts as the players' contractual situations change; but one a player is an asset he usually remains some form of asset.

I know you're really into the college scene. I don't pretend to know much about college basketball. But I know how to tell time. And my perception is that the nucleus of a good college team tends to turn over every year or two. Which means to me that any chemistry they develop must be of relatively short duration.

There's more opportunity for long-term chemistry to develop on a good team in the NBA. And that can be an asset that offsets certain negatives, such as advancing age. I was thinking about that last night, as I watched the Celtics starters functioning more smoothly than has recently been the case, despite the fact that two of them are obviously still below par. If they had traded Ray for Martin, they would have received a younger asset and would have lost an existing chemistry asset. And, in view of Martin's defensive "reputation," just maybe Fisher would have gotten an open look on the final shot. Who knows?

If a team is constantly absorbed with building for the future, does it ever have a present? Can its carefully plotted future be subverted by injury? (Ask Portland.) Does it ever have time to capitalize on the kind of chemistry that can sometimes be almost the equivalent of playing with a sixth man on the floor? Or is it always operating with a revolving door, "grass is greener" mentality?

Mercifully the trading deadline has passed. It's now time to root for the team the Celtics have decided to go with. Perhaps (almost certainly, I'd say), they'll augment that team with another pickup or two. But, in general, their course for this season has been plotted, for better or worse; and we may be sure Danny had opportunities to jump at more changes and consciously avoided them for what he considered good reasons—not simply emotion.

If the plotted course works out for the best, wonderful. If it doesn't, there will always be next year. Come the summer, the future potential of this team can be better evaluated based on this full season's performance. The nature of the various assets may be assessed. Needs may be identified. Actions may be taken as needed. The cycle continues. But, unlike the long drought in Celtics history, the two conditions I mentioned (operating from relative strength and having an array of various types of assets) will continue to exist.

And so it goes.

Sam

Sorry about that, Bob. That was the Chevy Chase Christmas Vacation scene coming out in me. It seemed to fit my conjured up Danny ranting fantasy perfectly!

Hey D

Here is the good part of it............

And, I want to look him strait in the eye and tell him: what a cheap, lyiny, no good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, bloodsucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-assed, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?"


beat

Hmmmmmmm..............thought it was just I that didn't think much of DA.

LOL

Tark

Beat, that is indeed the funniest part of that movie, quite possibly the funniest line of any film ever for me. I almost want to memorize it and pull it off at a party of something, but that would be an insult to Chevy who absolutely nailed it and should never be repeated by mere mortals!!

Second has to be the "Hap, hap happiest Christmas since Bing Crosby tap danced with Danny %^$% Kay!!" line. That one I have altered and used to much success in a variety of irreverant situations. But I digress...

Actually, gyso, the Sam Kinneson classroom scene from "Back to School" has to be the best funniest scene of all time. OK, I'm through!! Sam, don't cut me off!!

"I like you, gyso. I'm going to keep my eye on you!"

They've bleeped the audio from most of the Youtube coverage of that scene. But I found one with audio:

http://videos.apnicommunity.com/Video,Item,1635560675.html

Sam

dbrown

is she rigghhhttt?

Cause I know that's the popular version of what went on there. I know a lot of people like to believe that!!

Great research, Sam. You got to have the original, uncut scene. Any bleeping or dubbing absolutely ruins all great scenes.

D

The You tube has it but disabled the sound part of it as they have with many copywrite issues.

Still a great piece...............like the line to Cousin Ed "can I take you out in the country, leave you for dead................"Well that ud be great Clark"

beat

Touche Sam!!! I am in total agreement! But then again you all know that.
Let's see what happens in the second half of the year.

By the way, did anyone watch the end of the Cleveland game? I thought that LeBron was going to cry when he lost. He was so ticked off!! He really is a poor sport, great player or not.

Rosie t

I saw that. He is a rotten sport and sortve turning bad as near as i can tell. Doode needs to be the man sooooooo bad.

Shall I compare him to Isiah Thomas??? Now there was a poor sport!

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Touche Sam!!! I am in total agreement! But then again you all know that.
Let's see what happens in the second half of the year.

By the way, did anyone watch the end of the Cleveland game? I thought that LeBron was going to cry when he lost. He was so ticked off!! He really is a poor sport, great player or not.

Rosalie,

Vince Lombardi said "show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser". If LeBron was a Celtic, I'd be appalled if he appeared emotionally unaffected by a loss at home against a potential Finals rival. I'd want him to be emotional. Snarl, cry, primal scream, anything; just don't take the loss complacently.

bob

bob,

I agree. Was an emotional and highly competitive contest.

To NOT be upset with the outcome would indeed be the negative.

Tark

OK, don't get me going off on Cry Baby James. I'm just going to tell you to put that Thursday night in your short-term memory bank. Slight Celtic win coupled with a slight Cleveland loss and LAL loss. Further coupled with everything that led up to it including the 13 game win streak and all the Celtic crapola up to that point. I think it is an omen of bigger things to come.

"I've got a feelin' about this team..."

BOBHECK

Serious dude? Jame's walked off the floor after a series and didnt bother to shake the winning team's hands or fulfil his obligation to the press. You know the press that fawns all over him and has made him a zillionaire.

That aint caring it is crybaby 101

Lebron is still light years better than Kobe. He had the strength of character to make it on his own ability despite not having a Father, and a Mother who was on and off crack. He plays hard, he competes hard, he takes care of his kids and his Mom. The NBA could do a lot worse in having someone else as the standard bearer. At least if our stars (Celtics) are older, he (James) SHOULD be able to foil any further chances Kobe & Phil have at catching (not Harvey or Tameka) our Championship title record.-MD.

md

I think the guy has a lot of good qualities. But sportsmanship and professionalism aint two of them.

Kobe manned up after getting poleaxed by 39 and congratulated the celitics.

Didnt know that about his mom. That is rough stuff. How is she doin now?

Jeb: Lebron has provided a home of her own for her and has her in the best of treatment for her problems. He's handling his business constructively and it isn't costing him a 4 million dollar I'm sorry ring to the Mother of his sons either, like it cost the Black Mamba for his wife!-MD.