what would be a "fireworks" off-season for you?

while I wait for the lottery ( and then all the new mocks and players ranking to come out) and with all the "chatter" about the Celtics MIGHT be ready for some big moves.......I was wondering what other fans here thought might meet the "fireworks" off season?

remember the most we can have is about $21M in cap space (that will mean Bass, Jerebko and Datome are gone, along with those trade exceptions). But you can trade away players and get others in return still.

or

you can keep the trade exceptions and stay over the cap and possibly use our own FA's in sign and trades as well.



I have another thread here list the FA center and PF's and their past year salary's , age, etc. and there are threads here and websites for where players are likely to fall in the draft.

I myself have many ideas about ways Danny could go (and players) but I am always interested in what others see as possible scenarios and how to get there.

kdp,

I am not quite sure how Ainge will progress, but I certainly hope that getting a starting center happens this summer as the first item on his agenda. Second, I would like to see a better scoring option at the small forward position, and third I would like to see a more consistent performance from the power forward position.

If only one of my thoughts are addressed getting the center has to be first. If two of my concerns are solved, I could be happy going into next season. All three issues dealt with should equal 50 wins and a higher playoff spot in April of 2016.

As Ainge has so many assets from which to strike with, it is likely impossible to determine exactly which way he will go. He has a few young players who could be used in a trade, he has cap space to use, he has trade exemptions to utilize, he has far more draft picks over the next four years to use in trade than will ever possibly suit up for the Celtics, etc. He can also bank on most of the returning roster making more and more individual improvements coming out of the Stevens Summer Player Development Program. He also has a couple of his own free agents that I am sure that he would like to have back.

I kind of like most of the young guys currently on the team so I am not a big fan of trading them, don't know much about how the trade exemptions work, but really favor using the huge pile of draft picks to make next year's team better.

There would have been no reason to accumulate all of these picks in the last two years and not use them at this time when the team is ready to spring toward the top of the Eastern Conference. Moving up again next season will lessen the impact that the Cs personal draft picks may bring next summer and also may dictate that there will be fewer roster spots available on a yearly basis in the future.

I would use as many of the lesser valued first round draft picks (probably any of them except those belonging to the Nets) and a good bunch of the many second rounders as necessary to get us a center and at least one of a better scoring small forward or a more well rounded, consistent performance from the power forward position in 2015-16.

If you consider the bang in "bang for the buck" to be fireworks, this would be my fireworks strategy.

Future draft picks are not very valuable at all a year or more in advance. Trading them so far ahead of time is selling low, always. Just like prospects who are raw but talented get drafted at least a bit lower because they're not ready to contribute as much as other guys.

So the best fireworks for the buck would be to hold on to future picks instead of selling low. Even by mid-season they will be much more valuable than they are now, and Danny could still trade them to improve the team in the second half of the season and playoffs.

And sitting tight at current draft positions is also the best way to get top bang for those picks. Even at 33, there's going to be solid first round talent sitting right there, and all the first round talents don't fit into the top 30 picks of this draft.

Even at 45, there will be decent players, like a back up point guard or shooting guard, or a draft-and-stash Euro with first round talent.

Even by hitting solid singles or doubles with 3 or all 4 of our picks, Danny will have more assets to package for a grand finale of a mid-season trade.

Like, Sac is much more likely to trade Cousins, and for a better deal, in the middle of the season if it's yet again a toxic situation over there, which there's little reason to doubt.

Same with Denver and Ty Lawson, and undoubtedly a few other guys in the middle of the season.

In the summer, hope springs eternal, but by January, many playoff hopes are already dashed, players discontent, and locker room animosity rises to sometimes toxic levels. That's when you strike and get a good deal, or at least a deal that never would have even been a possibility during the summer.

Also, our picks this year are going to be more valuable every week up until the draft. By draft day we could probably get a stud like Lawson for #16 and #33, something surprising along those lines.

Danny's in the driver's seat, and the trade offers are about to come rushing in in a couple more weeks.

The best deals will come on draft day, in the middle of the draft, when teams see that the guy they are fixated on is still available at 16, 28, or 33.

So my idea of fireworks is for Danny to sit tight, get some nice contingency trade offers agreed to for draft night, and strongly consider just sitting tight and drafting the most talented player at each spot in the draft, fully prepared to get even more value in the mid-season trade market.

The James Harden trade, for instance, didn't happen mid-summer, but right before the regular season started, and our sweet trade for Isaiah Thomas happened right at the trade deadline.

I don't know what's going to happen, but virtually every possible scenario is exciting and probably team improving.

I've seen the 'just use the draft picks' scenario a couple of times recently on this board and others. The problem with this approach is that we have 4 picks in this draft. We also have a pretty full roster, and likely want most of our potential free agents back. The 2 1st rounders are on guaranteed contracts, so we'd have to pay them regardless of whether they make the team. The 2nd rounders aren't guaranteed, but still take up a roster spot or need to be willing to play overseas. Are we going to have 4 open slots on the team? Three? I think part of our off-season strategy has to be 2-1 or 3-1 deals, where we're giving away mid-range talent and picks to get higher end talent, both to upgrade our roster and to make room for any new players we may get.

I'm pretty certain, without looking up the rule, that we can draft over the 15 max roster, but by the start of the season we have to be down to 15. It does us no good to draft guys who may get cut - better off trading the picks. And by drafting guys and trying to trade them over the summer, it reduces their trade value before the start of the season, where other teams A) Know we need to unload them or get nothing for them or B) Exposes their warts during summer league, reducing the hypothetical value of the undrafted pick to the actual value of a real player who was drafted late in the draft. That strategy can work when you're trading Wiggins (#1 pick) but probably not as much when you're trading the #16 or #28 pick.

-V

We have way too many draft picks for our own uses.  I would be willing to trade all of them for the right players except Brooklyn's unprotected 2016 and 2018 first rounders (unless the deal is one that just cannot be passed up).  They might make the playoffs next year, maybe not, but I think they won't be very good.  I think we saw the best of them this year.  Joe Johnson will be 34, with a boat anchor contract; Deron Williams will be 31, is on the decline and has a boat anchor contract; and they want to resign Brook Lopez to a monster contract.  Thaddeus Young has a player option for $9.7M.  If he exercises that option that won't leave a lot of money for supporting players, even with the higher cap.  They don't have almost anybody signed up through 2018, so we don't know what will happen but unless they sign some superstars the bottom could fall out in 2018 as Joe Johnson is gone and Deron is on his last legs.  Even if they do sign superstars it might take a year or two for them to gel, so we should get a mid-round 1st out of it.

Looking at their salaries, I think the 2016 might be more valuable than their 2018 simply because they have fewer options to dig themselves out of the hole. Any injuries to any of Lopez, Williams and/or Johnson and their goose is cooked.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/brooklyn.htm


bob



.

Considering that the Dalai Lama now says he wants to be reincarnated as an attractive mischievous blond woman and that the Kardashian step-dad Bruce Jenner has made big strides at becoming a woman, how about this as fireworks? Celtics sign free agent Kim Kardashian after she begins transgender procedures to become a male. With that rear end she'd be great at boxing out, and imagine the other free agents she could attract to the Celts locker room in the process.

BaronV wrote:I've seen the 'just use the draft picks' scenario a couple of times recently on this board and others.  The problem with this approach is that we have 4 picks in this draft.  We also have a pretty full roster, and likely want most of our potential free agents back. The 2 1st rounders are on guaranteed contracts, so we'd have to pay them regardless of whether they make the team.  The 2nd rounders aren't guaranteed, but still take up a roster spot or need to be willing to play overseas.  Are we going to have 4 open slots on the team?  Three?  I think part of our off-season strategy has to be 2-1 or 3-1 deals, where we're giving away mid-range talent and picks to get higher end talent, both to upgrade our roster and to make room for any new players we may get.

I'm pretty certain, without looking up the rule, that we can draft over the 15 max roster, but by the start of the season we have to be down to 15.  It does us no good to draft guys who may get cut - better off trading the picks.  And by drafting guys and trying to trade them over the summer, it reduces their trade value before the start of the season, where other teams A) Know we need to unload them or get nothing for them or B) Exposes their warts during summer league, reducing the hypothetical value of the undrafted pick to the actual value of a real player who was drafted late in the draft.  That strategy can work when you're trading Wiggins (#1 pick) but probably not as much when you're trading the #16 or #28 pick.  

-V

If we have a pretty full roster, and four draft picks, it makes much more sense to use the draft picks rather than re-sign the free agents, if the draft picks can be reasonably expected to fill the same roles. The draft picks are going to be 2-4 times less expensive, with more upside, and with better trade value.

Assuming Danny wants to bring back most or all of these free agents is a big assumption, especially since this draft is so deep, and our free agents not actually that good.

Worcester, at this point, there are so many players' names floating around that they're all beginning to sound alike; so what's left is some good humor.  Thanks.

Sam

I personally enjoy this time in the off-season. but I also enjoy playing the "waht if I were GM" game , so it amkes sense I guess.

I surely undertsand those that would rather not and wait to see what Ainge and company actually do, in fact that makes more sense.

guess i have too much time on my hands this time of year...LOL.

Lottery tonight is the first step.

then the draft itself

then the new league year and all it entails.

only a few weeks and we'll know what Ainge can get done to improve the team this off-season.

Doesn't Danny have until July to keep on wheeling and dealing?

Sam,

Yes, lots of names floating around for the Celtics, but probably not as many names for as many other teams due to Ainge having so many different ways he can go to improve our surprise 40 win team for next year.

Even the 76ers do not have as many draft picks and young talent to trade. Most teams do not have the number of trade exemptions to use and not too many teams have more cap space.

I get that Ainge either already has a master plan set in his mind of that he is working about 30 hours a day trying to decide which way he would like to go and then have 15 plans Bs if his plan As fall apart in the next three months.

I love reading everyone's ideas, I have a couple of my own, but I would spin myself into the grave if I had to sit in Ainge's seat.

what is fact, what is fiction? I have read so many names that the Celtics have "interest" in that my head is swimming. We really know nothing and will not find out anything until draft day, and then July 1. Before all that it is all he said, she said. It is fun though to read some of the stories out there, and, Worcester, we already have Sully with big butt to knock people off the block!!!!

Rosalie

Yes, Sully's butt beats even Kim Kardashian's.

worcester wrote:Yes, Sully's butt beats even Kim Kardashian's.

Worcester,

Speak for yourself.


bob


.

now Bob, are you insinuating that Kim is larger, or better to look at

Fireworks season for me will be when Danny adds at least two all league scorers to the roster. And if one of them also happens to be a very good rebounder it will be double the joy.

swish

kdp,

I consider you to be one what I think I called (in another thread) a "new breed" of posters.  You, and many others (Rambone is definitely one) find dimensions of the game to enjoy that have eluded many old-timers such as me.

When I grew up with the game, we were presented with a team roster that was a fait accompli when the season started, and there had been very little Celtics information in the media during the summer.  I had to hunt avidly to uncover perhaps four or five media tidbits between the latest Celtics championship and training camp.

So our focus as fans was, almost by default, limited to the games themselves.  Even then, we seldom got to see the games on television and were pretty much left to visualize what was going on by the radio reports of Johnny Most.  I can't speak for other Celtics fans at the time, but I know I went to loads of games because I hungered to commit every move on the floor to memory.

I even invented my own stats (including +/-, stealing it from hockey).  My own score cards contained more game statistics than the few that were reported—fga, fg, fta, ft, pf, points and, if the game was early enough to allow the time to compile and publish them, mp and reb. 

Game presentations consisted pretty much of the raising of the baskets (if we went early enough) and the National Anthem.  The All Star break consisted of only the game, which was a relatively serious affair devoted more to winning than to showcasing individual skills.  Since old habits sometimes die hard, while some people of my generation have doubtlessly graduated to a broader outlook in enjoying pro ball, my interest will always be mainly in the games themselves.  I'm certainly engaged in the other stuff, as I enjoy posting in virtually all threads; but only the games are my passion.

Ao you guys have an entirely new range of entertainment opportunities associated with the sport and all sorts of media coverage and analytical tools with which to dissect and conjecture to your hearts' delight—regardless of time of year.

I believe I can speak for the board when I say we're lucky to have you.  Because the bond we'll always have is our love for pro basketball and, in most cases, of the Boston Celtics.

Sam

Ditto from me, I am from Sam's era, started following the Celtics in the early 1960's. Graduated, went to business school and then bought my first season's ticket with two other friends. One year we went to the games, sat in every different section of the Garden, and picked our spot. Radio was the only way I could keep up with the Celtics, Johnny Most was the greatest play by play announcer for young people. He taught us all, and made us all addicted to the Celtics.

So when he says that you guys are a new breed of fan, he is right. What is great though is that you follow the team, the moves, the league for that matter, but do not waver in your commitment to the Celtics, where there are so many out there criticizing and bouncing back and forth. It iss refreshing to read your posts, and believe me, I do. I may not add much but I read and enjoy your involvement here.

Thanks

Rosalie

Me too. Johnny Most was my link to the Celts in the 50's and early 60's. The I hot to see them on UHF channels 56 and then 38. UHF required a special little round antenna on the TV. Those were the days.

The most fun we used to have was going to watch them practice at Mass Maritime Academy in the preseason/summer. Later on then moved their practices to Hellenick College in Brookline where you could not get in. The summer time was the rookie camp at Brandeis, started out paying a couple of bucks and before long there was a line and Brandeis upped the price to eight dollars. My son went to camp there and got to have breakfast with alot of the rookies. That was the last place I saw Reggie Lewis with his little boy two days before he died. Freaky. The Maritime Academy cost us fifty cents!

Nice post Sam, puts it in perspective.

The only non-game nba entertainment I like is the draft. But with youtube and dedicated draft web sites, it's pretty unbelievable the amount of information and multi-media we have about these prospects.

In general, I'd say the younger generation of Celtics fans is quite disappointing, if the regular commenters on celtics forums are any indication.

A distinct majority of young internet era Celtics fans support tanking any time the team is not a top contender for a title.

I blame fantasy basketball, which I don't play. But it glorifies individual stats, hero ball, and a high volume of trades. This influence has bled into regular fandom, and these young fans have no loyalty or attachment to any Celtic player who isn't a superstar.

Optimism, even with well explained reasoning, is met with derision. These young fans barely remember pre-2007 Celtic basketball, so they expect a championship every single year. And they will comment, all season long, about how the Celtics should be trying harder to lose games, and disrespecting every Celtic player as a "scrub", because the players aren't worshiped on ESPN.

The NBA itself plays a big role in promoting this vulgar form of fanhood, glorifying the individual star, featuring the individual rather than the team, and corrupting the game with special treatment from referees, aka "star calls".

I'm very glad that this forum, and all you guys are here. People who actually see the value in winning games in a non-championship year. It's a sad state of affairs.

Rambone,

You're preaching to the choir in your comments about fantasy basketball.  I don't talk much about it because I realize many board members enjoy it.  I guess the crux of my situation is that, coming from a background of feeling so fulfilled by championship after championship and respect for such exemplary players, I view team performance as enough of a reward that I don't need anything else to enhance the experience.  It's probably a very narrow viewpoint, but I come from a very primitive time in pro basketball terms.

Sam

Nothing primitive about it. Teamwork is (almost?) always less primitive than individual work.

Anyone watching the Rockets? Josh Smith is killing his team taking 3's and missing them - leading to easy Warriof buckets. So glad we don't have Smith.

Rambone,

I don't mean primitive basketball.  I still believe it was the best basketball that has ever been played—and the most fun to watch.  I mean the primitive surroundings—from the lack of media coverage to the rudimentary trappings of the game and the relative accessibility of the players.

Sam