overreacting and thinking out loud

Dboss...funny final line!

This roster still has a hole, and that is a Perk/Jason Collins type 270+lb center that can come in and hold his own for a few minutes against the Brook Lopez's and Mozgovs of the league. There's just a few matchups that are going to beat us. Most of the time our centers' speed and skill is going to make up for that strength advantage, but there will be times we get embarrassed, as of now.

Sometimes being tough and trying hard just isn't enough. Sully is honestly our best center by far against certain matchups, and he might not be long for Boston.

We rightfully focus on centers in our discussions of improved defense.  But we should be careful not to overlook that it's the TWO up front players who will anchor the defense, just as Perk and KG did.

In order to play at a high level, most players (at all positions) have to take certain chances.  A PG who's really dynamic will make a certain number of turnovers because he's pushing the envelope out there.  There are similar challenges at each position, where the ability to take the right risks and succeed much more often than not can make the difference between a journeyman and a great player.

The presence of dual defensive stalwarts up front means that each of them can take more defensive risks than as if the guy beside him were a defensive stiff.  They can cover for one another in risk-taking situations—perhaps wandering a little farther out than normal in one circumstance, doubling an opponent in another circumstance, setting up to take a charge in yet another circumstance, etc., etc., etc.  So I'm rather excited that Danny has brought aboard three guys who seem to have legitimate defensive credentials at the PF position: The Mouseketeer, the Sheik, and the Designer.  I haven't seen Jones play (as nearly as I can recall); but, just based on his physique, I bet he will be better equipped than Sully or Kelly to complement a defensively minded center.  Or even to make life on defense a little easier for David Lee at center.  And I feel even surer about Johnson and Mickey.

Sam

Dboss,

I'm well aware of what the word "average" means.  But it's also possible to use the word in such a way as to imply that it carries a negative connotation ("only average") or a positive connotation ("at least average.")  I was just checking to see whether you were using the term in a bit of a negative manner.  Personally, I don't consider him to be an average floor general.  He's below that level.

Also, I'm not sure why the quickness of a Rozier (or Thornton if he were to make the team) wouldn't hold up in the NBA.  Pressey maintained his quickness in the Celtics' attack, although Rozier and Thornton dwarf Phil's speed.  And the very fact that there are a lot of speedy PGs in the league supports the advisability of having a speedy PG to guard them.  In my book, Smart's neither fast nor agile enough to do that.  (I don't subscribe to the fan theory that it's easy for a PG and SG to switch defensive assignments on a routine basis.)

As for the possibility of trading Thomas, it seems that Danny has tipped his hand a bit by making Isaiah a part of the Celtics recruiting effort. While that certainly doesn't prevent them from trading Isaiah, it offers clues as to the esteem in which the braintrust holds him. I certainly don't view Isaiah as a classic PG either, although he can a gather lot of assists simply by driving and dishing as Allen Iverson did.

Just out of curiosity, if the Celtics were to have a shot at trading for Cousins, and if the Kings insisted that Smart or Isaiah be included in the deal, would you trade Smart? Would you trade Isaiah? What if the Celtics' target were a proven defensive stud (you can fill in the name)? Would you include Smart? Isaiah? I believe I would trade Isaiah rather than Smart, although I'd probably let either go for the right stud. My reasoning is that I believe Turner could replace a larger portion of Isaiah's offensive impact at either SG or PG than the portion of Smart's defensive impact (at SG) that anyone could replace.

Finally, I agree that I don't see either Rozier or Thornton as a potential off-guard. But it would be fun to see them out there together (a la the Jones Boys) specifically to disrupt an opponent's offense. (Maybe with Smart, Mickey and the aforementioned stud.) Of course, offense might be a problem with that five.

Sam

Give Mickey 2 more years to watch his offense blossom. He's a student of the game.

sam wrote:Dboss,

I'm well aware of what the word "average" means.  But it's also possible to use the word in such a way as to imply that it carries a negative connotation ("only average") or a positive connotation ("at least average.")  I was just checking to see whether you were using the term in a bit of a negative manner.  Personally, I don't consider him to be an average floor general.  He's below that level.

Also, I'm not sure why the quickness of a Rozier (or Thornton if he were to make the team) wouldn't hold up in the NBA.  Pressey maintained his quickness in the Celtics' attack, although Rozier and Thornton dwarf Phil's speed.  And the very fact that there are a lot of speedy PGs in the league supports the advisability of having a speedy PG to guard them.  In my book, Smart's neither fast nor agile enough to do that.  (I don't subscribe to the fan theory that it's easy for a PG and SG to switch defensive assignments on a routine basis.)

As for the possibility of trading Thomas, it seems that Danny has tipped his hand a bit by making Isaiah a part of the Celtics recruiting effort.  While that certainly doesn't prevent them from trading Isaiah, it offers clues as to the esteem in which the braintrust holds him.  I certainly don't view Isaiah as a classic PG either, although he can a gather lot of assists simply by driving and dishing as Allen Iverson did.

Just out of curiosity, if the Celtics were to have a shot at trading for Cousins, and if the Kings insisted that Smart or Isaiah be included in the deal, would you trade Smart?  Would you trade Isaiah?  What if the Celtics' target were a proven defensive stud (you can fill in the name)?  Would you include Smart?  Isaiah?  I believe I would trade Isaiah rather than Smart, although I'd probably let either go for the right stud.  My reasoning is that I believe Turner could replace a larger portion of Isaiah's offensive impact at either SG or PG than the portion of Smart's defensive impact (at SG) that anyone could replace.

Finally, I agree that I don't see either Rozier or Thornton as a potential off-guard.  But it would be fun to see them out there together (a la the Jones Boys) specifically to disrupt an opponent's offense.  (Maybe with Smart, Mickey and the aforementioned stud.)  Of course, offense might be a problem with that five.

Sam

I think that once a Rozier or a Thornton start playing against NBA level defenses they will discover that getting where you want on the court is a lot more difficult.  When I made that comment I was just trying to temper the notion that they will be blowing past all the other quick PG's in the league.  I agree that Smart does not have elite level speed.  At times I have concluded that Smart is a player without a position (Neither a PG nor an off guard) But he is just a damn good basketball player that still finds a way to make plays.  However that actually makes Smart more of a role player, a specialist.

I watched the Celts/Heat game again last night to see how Thornton played and he definitely has NBA level talent.  The chance that he makes the team is probably less than 50/50.  But what if the Celtics do move Avery Bradley as you have suggested or another guard.  Thornton could make the team.  

This may seem strange for a guy that believes that a center is needed but I would not want to see Cousins on the Ce4ltics.  When I think of Cousins I think of a guy who thinks that his S  doesn't stink.  His body language speaks volumes.  Also he is not a particularly good rim protector and he is not really that fast getting up and down the court.  In that regards I would not trade Smart or Thomas as part of a deal.  If we are talking about a Serge from OKC then absolutely they would be in the mix.

Sam I think it is safe to conclude that there are a lot of moving parts that could come into play.

dboss

sam wrote:We rightfully focus on centers in our discussions of improved defense.  But we should be careful not to overlook that it's the TWO up front players who will anchor the defense, just as Perk and KG did.

In order to play at a high level, most players (at all positions) have to take certain chances.  A PG who's really dynamic will make a certain number of turnovers because he's pushing the envelope out there.  There are similar challenges at each position, where the ability to take the right risks and succeed much more often than not can make the difference between a journeyman and a great player.

The presence of dual defensive stalwarts up front means that each of them can take more defensive risks than as if the guy beside him were a defensive stiff.  They can cover for one another in risk-taking situations—perhaps wandering a little farther out than normal in one circumstance, doubling an opponent in another circumstance, setting up to take a charge in yet another circumstance, etc., etc., etc.  So I'm rather excited that Danny has brought aboard three guys who seem to have legitimate defensive credentials at the PF position: The Mouseketeer, the Sheik, and the Designer.  I haven't seen Jones play (as nearly as I can recall); but, just based on his physique, I bet he will be better equipped than Sully or Kelly to complement a defensively minded center.  Or even to make life on defense a little easier for David Lee at center.  And I feel even surer about Johnson and Mickey.

Sam

sam,

Good point. Cowens' soulmate, Kendrick Perkins, wasn't worth much until KG came here. A combination of him imparting some of his skills and wisdom to Perk along with having that 2nd presence in the middle, made Perk's career. He went to OKC, got the big contract, but having Ibaka next to him just wasn't the same.

With Johnson and Mickey we have a couple of pogo sticks, we still need the beef, but at least we have two now. Last year we had nobody.


bob


.

Unreal range, no hesitation. If he can see it, he can hit it. That's a shooter's mentality.






bob


.

I like how Hunter catches the ball with his legs spread fairly wide. Conventional wisdom generally advises "shoulder-width apart", but by spreading his feet out like that, Hunter is able to collect himself and jump (into his jumpshot) much quicker and with better balance.

rambone wrote:I like how Hunter catches the ball with his legs spread fairly wide. Conventional wisdom generally advises "shoulder-width apart", but by spreading his feet out like that, Hunter is able to collect himself and jump (into his jumpshot) much quicker and with better balance.

rambone,

It's not so important whether they are spread or together, so long as it's the same every time.


bob


.

bobheckler wrote:

rambone wrote:I like how Hunter catches the ball with his legs spread fairly wide. Conventional wisdom generally advises "shoulder-width apart", but by spreading his feet out like that, Hunter is able to collect himself and jump (into his jumpshot) much quicker and with better balance.

rambone,

It's not so important whether they are spread or together, so long as it's the same every time.  


bob


.

If a player is coming off curls and catching and shooting, setting his feet wide like Hunter does is important. Because the body is moving horizontally from the basket, and perhaps away from the basket as well. That's not a typical shooting situation, and it requires different footwork from a standstill catch and shoot where the body is already in balance and not moving in relation to the basket.

Most players don't plant their feet wide apart like Hunter does coming off curls/screens, but that's part of why most players don't shoot high %s in those situations.

Dboss,

You and I have both observed that Smart could very well wind up as a player without a position. He's certainly carrying himself like a leader on the court, which at least means he's brimming with self-confidence.

I should have realized you're not a Cousins fan when I asked that hypothetical question. Hypotheticals are pretty much useless anyway when the subject of a defensively-minded Celtics center comes up. Only specifics matter. Sorry about putting you in a difficult spot.

Sam