Lakers aint gettin it done against good teams

Jeb,

LA is fine against Denver's big guys but when the Lawson's and JR Smith's beat LA's guards, Nene and Martin get open shots.
Denver will not be the same without Martin and who knows when Lawson will be back.
Denver will probably have to beat Dallas since they will be the 2/3 seeds. I would rather LA play Dallas but if they have to play Denver so be it.
If JR Smith and Billups are hot from 3 point range, Denver can beat LA and go to the Finals.

LA's bench is hot and cold. They have games when everyone contributes and games when no one does. LA will only be using an 8 man roatation for the most part in the playoffs, so the bench is not as critical in the playoffs as it is in the regular season.

tj

From what I have seen Denver's length and bullish nature bug the Lakes. Specialy Gasol whom does not like to bang...Gasol also struggles against reallly tall defenders he cant shoot over. When Pau is facing the hoop he is elite and deadly...not so much with his back to the basket. Bynum is a traditional back to the hoop nba center and in my opinion the sky's the limit for this kid. I think he is a hell of a player and can get way better which is scary.

In terms of shortened rotations they have already been pretty short. I feel your bench is the Lakes chief soft spot. As a result of this Kobe is playing way way too many minutes and if it keeps up he is playing himself right into a shortened kg esque career. If your honest with yourself you got to admit Kobe is showing heavy miles. The guy keeps himself in fierce shape but you only get so many free passes and then you start to slip. He is a guy that is so skilled he will adapt and play for a long time at a high level but his days of dominating with althleticism are waning fast.

Gasol is playing massive minutes as well and making the Ginobli mistake of playing for his country all summer.

So i feel different than you about the importance of the bench The rotations will be shortened but what kind of shape will Kobe be in by the time we get there? If he is healthy and getting stronger yall have a great shot at winning
it all and will probably make it out of the west. If he is banged up and cant finish in traffic but trying to play like he is healthy and shootin too much we might have an early exit...we might not.

tjmakz wrote:bob,

1-The video of Ellis shot is easily accessible on espn.com
2-GS did very well against a healthy Lakers team. If they get a legit big man, they will be a playoff contender.
3-Hunter and Tolliver had open shots all night because the Lakers bigs had to help with Ellis andCurry drives through the lane.
4-LA is much bigger then GS. GS is much faster.
5-Hunter and Tolliver's performance had EVERYTHING to do with LA's point guards. See #3.

Man, you write a lot about a game that you didn't watch or see the highlights of...

tj,

I did watch the first half and some of the second. I just didn't see the end of the game because of other commitments, that's why I quoted someone else about that part of it.

Tollivers points were coming from outside because the Laker guarding him didn't come out to guard him. He wasn't getting shots because his man dropped off him to stop penetration. He was outside, alone, and shot. Maybe that happened because they didn't respect Tolliver's shot, maybe that happened because they hadn't adequately scouted him (because he was a D-leaguer and there wasn't a lot of video on him?) and maybe it's because the Laker bigs aren't confident coming that far away from the hoop. Regardless, Tolliver had open shots from outside all night because his man wasn't near him. Tolliver did not receive all his passes (and take all his shots) off of kick-out passes on penetrations.

Furthermore, good defensive teams know how to stop penetrations by faster opposing point guards without counting on their backline defense. It's called perimeter defense. So, even if Tolliver was scoring because his man had to help stop Curry in the paint, all that means is that the Lakers' perimeter defense wasn't good and that isn't about Curry's speed or Fisher and Farmar's slownesses, it's about Laker teamwork and communication on defense.

bob

/

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:bob,

1-The video of Ellis shot is easily accessible on espn.com
2-GS did very well against a healthy Lakers team. If they get a legit big man, they will be a playoff contender.
3-Hunter and Tolliver had open shots all night because the Lakers bigs had to help with Ellis andCurry drives through the lane.
4-LA is much bigger then GS. GS is much faster.
5-Hunter and Tolliver's performance had EVERYTHING to do with LA's point guards. See #3.

Man, you write a lot about a game that you didn't watch or see the highlights of...

tj,

I did watch the first half and some of the second. I just didn't see the end of the game because of other commitments, that's why I quoted someone else about that part of it.

Tollivers points were coming from outside because the Laker guarding him didn't come out to guard him. He wasn't getting shots because his man dropped off him to stop penetration. He was outside, alone, and shot. Maybe that happened because they didn't respect Tolliver's shot, maybe that happened because they hadn't adequately scouted him (because he was a D-leaguer and there wasn't a lot of video on him?) and maybe it's because the Laker bigs aren't confident coming that far away from the hoop. Regardless, Tolliver had open shots from outside all night because his man wasn't near him. Tolliver did not receive all his passes (and take all his shots) off of kick-out passes on penetrations.

Furthermore, good defensive teams know how to stop penetrations by faster opposing point guards without counting on their backline defense. It's called perimeter defense. So, even if Tolliver was scoring because his man had to help stop Curry in the paint, all that means is that the Lakers' perimeter defense wasn't good and that isn't about Curry's speed or Fisher and Farmar's slownesses, it's about Laker teamwork and communication on defense.

bob

/

Bob,

Did you happen to notice that Tolliver had 30 points last night. Maybe he is just a good player? All of Tollivers shots against LA were open shots from LA's bigs having to stay in the paint.
It is not a secret that LA's weakest part of their game is perimeter/pick and roll defense. We will see if they can work through it to win 28 games in the playoffs...
LA does not have a problem with the Jason Kidds, Andre Millers in the NBA. They have a real hard time with the fast guards in the league.
LA's overall defense is very good, much better with Artest.
LA's bigs did a great job last year guarding Orlando's 3 point shooting big men because Orlando did not have a guard that would toast LA's guards, so Gasol was able to guard Rashard Lewis when he was at the 3 point line.
I am sure LA will resolve their lack of quickness from the PG position this summer.

tjmakz wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:bob,

1-The video of Ellis shot is easily accessible on espn.com
2-GS did very well against a healthy Lakers team. If they get a legit big man, they will be a playoff contender.
3-Hunter and Tolliver had open shots all night because the Lakers bigs had to help with Ellis andCurry drives through the lane.
4-LA is much bigger then GS. GS is much faster.
5-Hunter and Tolliver's performance had EVERYTHING to do with LA's point guards. See #3.

Man, you write a lot about a game that you didn't watch or see the highlights of...

tj,

I did watch the first half and some of the second. I just didn't see the end of the game because of other commitments, that's why I quoted someone else about that part of it.

Tollivers points were coming from outside because the Laker guarding him didn't come out to guard him. He wasn't getting shots because his man dropped off him to stop penetration. He was outside, alone, and shot. Maybe that happened because they didn't respect Tolliver's shot, maybe that happened because they hadn't adequately scouted him (because he was a D-leaguer and there wasn't a lot of video on him?) and maybe it's because the Laker bigs aren't confident coming that far away from the hoop. Regardless, Tolliver had open shots from outside all night because his man wasn't near him. Tolliver did not receive all his passes (and take all his shots) off of kick-out passes on penetrations.

Furthermore, good defensive teams know how to stop penetrations by faster opposing point guards without counting on their backline defense. It's called perimeter defense. So, even if Tolliver was scoring because his man had to help stop Curry in the paint, all that means is that the Lakers' perimeter defense wasn't good and that isn't about Curry's speed or Fisher and Farmar's slownesses, it's about Laker teamwork and communication on defense.

bob

/

Bob,

Did you happen to notice that Tolliver had 30 points last night. Maybe he is just a good player? All of Tollivers shots against LA were open shots from LA's bigs having to stay in the paint.
It is not a secret that LA's weakest part of their game is perimeter/pick and roll defense. We will see if they can work through it to win 28 games in the playoffs...
LA does not have a problem with the Jason Kidds, Andre Millers in the NBA. They have a real hard time with the fast guards in the league.
LA's overall defense is very good, much better with Artest.
LA's bigs did a great job last year guarding Orlando's 3 point shooting big men because Orlando did not have a guard that would toast LA's guards, so Gasol was able to guard Rashard Lewis when he was at the 3 point line.
I am sure LA will resolve their lack of quickness from the PG position this summer.

tj,

I agree with virtually all your points above.

I think Tolliver might be a player. GSW has Biedrins and Turiaf, they're just not playing now.

I think LA will fix their point guard situation this offseason. They must.

LA's defense is better with Artest. I'm not sure their team defense is better, but their man-to-man defense on the SF is. Yes, that will produce fewer points by the opponent, but it doesn't fix things like perimeter defense.

For example, suppose the Lakers are playing the GSW and Maggette sets a high pick for Curry. Artest might do a good job hamstringing Maggette one-on-one (and he did), but if he doesn't play good team defense and help Fisher prevent Curry from coming off the pick and driving, then you get the situation with defending fast point guards like what you're describing. If the pick is being set by Tolliver, then Gasol should have been able to prevent Curry from curling around the pick without the Lakers completely losing touch with Tolliver. Other teams, including but not only the Celtics, do it regularly. You don't see that kind of defense so much with Western Conference teams as with Eastern Conference teams though.

bob


/

CJ Watson, Anthony Morrow and Tolliver. All came from the DLeague.

GS does a better job scouting and using DLeague than any other team and it's not even close. Those are three legit players.


TJ-

Hopefully Watson is wearing purple and gold next year. He's a perfect fit for the triangle.

Much better fit (and much cheaper) than Harris or Monta.


PS to TJ-

Bob is one of the smartest guys on the board and one of the coolest, so you don't ned to get aggro or edgy with your responses to him. He's no hater.

This is a good group of people on here. Don't be defensive when the Lakers play like shit, which is what they did they other night- it makes you look like you're not willing to acknowledge reality.

The Lakers had 23 turnovers and were completely phoning it in the other night. Does it mean they're a bad team ? No- it means they put little effort or focus into the game. Guess what ? The Lakers lost to the Ws (at home) around this time last year. It didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. Just move on like the team did the second the game was over. A meaningless game with no conclusions to be drawn from it.

babyskyhook wrote:CJ Watson, Anthony Morrow and Tolliver. All came from the DLeague.

GS does a better job scouting and using DLeague than any other team and it's not even close. Those are three legit players.


TJ-

Hopefully Watson is wearing purple and gold next year. He's a perfect fit for the triangle.

Much better fit (and much cheaper) than Harris or Monta.


PS to TJ-

Bob is one of the smartest guys on the board and one of the coolest, so you don't ned to get aggro or edgy with your responses to him. He's no hater.

This is a good group of people on here. Don't be defensive when the Lakers play like shit, which is what they did they other night- it makes you look like you're not willing to acknowledge reality.

The Lakers had 23 turnovers and were completely phoning it in the other night. Does it mean they're a bad team ? No- it means they put little effort or focus into the game. Guess what ? The Lakers lost to the Ws (at home) around this time last year. It didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. Just move on like the team did the second the game was over. A meaningless game with no conclusions to be drawn from it.

baby,

In my posts you can see that I am not a blinded Lakers fan. They have issues that they need to resolve and are by no means a lock to get to the Finals.
I don't have a problem with bob but he posted the following: "I didn't watch the game, but I was told yesterday by a friend of mine"...
bob made a lot of comments about the LA/GS game and did not watch it or see the highlights. He thought it was Fisher near Ellis when he made the final shot attempt. It is pretty hard to break down a basketball game by looking at a box score.
I like Watson but I am hoping GS would be willing to part with Ellis this summer since he has $44m left on his contract after this year. LA would probably also have to take back Radmonovic in order for GS to trade Ellis. LA is not going to put their team in the hands of CJ Watson for the next few years.
I think LA did have a good effort against GS but the way GS plays is an abboration in the NBA and LA can't handle 3 fast PG's being on the floor at the same time. GS's #3 guard is way faster then the Lakers fastest PG.

I agree that 82 games is a long season and the intensity is much different in the playoffs. LA is build more around a slower half court playoff game. Very few of LA's playoff games last year reached 100 points for either team.

tjmakz wrote:Jeb,

LA is fine against Denver's big guys but when the Lawson's and JR Smith's beat LA's guards, Nene and Martin get open shots.
Denver will not be the same without Martin and who knows when Lawson will be back.
Denver will probably have to beat Dallas since they will be the 2/3 seeds. I would rather LA play Dallas but if they have to play Denver so be it.
If JR Smith and Billups are hot from 3 point range, Denver can beat LA and go to the Finals.

LA's bench is hot and cold. They have games when everyone contributes and games when no one does. LA will only be using an 8 man roatation for the most part in the playoffs, so the bench is not as critical in the playoffs as it is in the regular season.

Melo had 18 reb's last night, a personal best, as well as an otherwise quite respectable line. he's become a much more complete player this year with reb's and D, not just playing to get his shots anymore (but he can get a shot against anybody, and his confidence is through the roof).

right that Denver is NOT the same without K-Mart, who should be back in roughly three weeks if the blood platelet treatment is successful. if it's not and he's not, they won't have the D to defeat LA in a series. if he is back, it will be an interesting series. last year was tighter than a cursory examination of the W-L outcome would suggest, and with Melo's maturation and some additions, Denver has improved this year.

expect Lawson back sometime later next week - his shoulder is coming along.

best regards,
Michael, moved to Denver

It appears Bynum strained his achilles tendon last night versus Minny. He's in a walking cast today and will get an MRI and re-evaluation today (Saturday).

Josh Powell is about to get his big break and get quality minutes against quality opponents.

The first round of the NBA playoffs start 4/17/10.

From Hoopsworld:



Andrew Bynum of the Los Angeles Lakers left Friday night's game against the Minnesota Timberwolves with a strained Achilles' tendon. The extent of the injury isn't clear but Coach Phil Jackson said he expects Andrew to "probably miss a little while."

Jackson admitted to being "a little concerned."

"He gets easy baskets for us," continued Phil. "He's obviously a big body and can get things accomplished by plugging the lane . . ."

On the season, Andrew is averaging 15.1 points and 8.4 boards in 30.6 minutes a game. He's shooting 56.8% from the field and has played in 64 of team's 68 games.

Over the past four games, Bynum had been on a small tear with 20 points, 10 boards and two blocks a night.



The Lakers play on Sunday against the Washington Wizards before embarking on a difficult five-game road trip against five very difficult opponents (San Antonio Spurs, Oklahoma City Thunder, Houston Rockets, New Orleans Hornets and Atlanta Hawks).

bob


/

I don't know what the Lakers have that the Hornets would want, but this trade would solve their point guard problem.


Rookie Darren Collison has played well in (Chris) Paul’s absence, but is preparing to return to the bench.

“I didn’t expect to start before he got hurt, so it’s going to be the same thing as it was before,” Collison said. “After going up and down the floor with a lot more minutes, I will be a lot more confident. It’s not going to change. It’s going to be the same thing, but I will know exactly what to do when I’m out there.”

Collison’s play in Paul’s absence could land him on the All-Rookie team, but has also led to speculation he could be traded before next season. Teams looking for a quality starting point guard could be calling the Hornets about Collison. The Hornets are expected to be cautious until they are certain about Paul’s health, but one NBA source said it wouldn’t be a surprise to see the team try to package Collison with Peja Stojakovic’s expiring contract next season in a possible trade.

sky, gator and tj

Let's all hope Bynum is ok. That would be a tough blow. We all want good health for all the teams. Here's hoping he is going to be able to play in good health.

Jeb

Since New Orleans would have to take back a similar salary or salaries, I don't see why they would just take someone's scrubs. Peja is making $15.33m next year. They would want better players then Peja in order to make a Collision/Peja deal.

jeb65 wrote:sky, gator and tj

Let's all hope Bynum is ok. That would be a tough blow. We all want good health for all the teams. Here's hoping he is going to be able to play in good health.

Jeb

jeb,

Bynum walked off the floor ok. If the MRI shows no damage, they will probably shut him down for a week.
LA really doesn't need Bynum for another month.

tj

so he was moving good? that's good news...maybe just a tweak.

Cheers to that.

Jeb

tjmakz wrote:

jeb65 wrote:sky, gator and tj

Let's all hope Bynum is ok. That would be a tough blow. We all want good health for all the teams. Here's hoping he is going to be able to play in good health.

Jeb

jeb,

Bynum walked off the floor ok. If the MRI shows no damage, they will probably shut him down for a week.
LA really doesn't need Bynum for another month.

tj,

Let's hope all is well with Bynum. According to him, though, he said he heard a "pop". Might mean nothing, let's hope it doesn't, but that what he is saying.

This from the LA Times:

Bynum was running downcourt on defense, felt a brief pop and promptly checked out of the game before walking back to the locker room with 10:09 left in the third quarter. He stopped in the hallway because of the pain and slowly continued to the trainer's room.


bob

/

In the NBA TV highlights yeah he was walking on it as he left the the court to head to the locker room but sure seemed to be favoring it quit a bit.

Bynum is too darn young to have these injuries.

Maybe he is just plain unlucky.

beat

beat wrote:In the NBA TV highlights yeah he was walking on it as he left the the court to head to the locker room but sure seemed to be favoring it quit a bit.

Bynum is too darn young to have these injuries.

Maybe he is just plain unlucky.

beat

beat,

knees are knees and they'll do what they want, but some of his injuries are positively freakish in how they happen over nothing. The guy falls over Kobe and that knee injury kept him out for months?

Any tendon injury is serious, but an achilles injury a little different because you need your achilles for spring.

This from achillestendon.com

Contracting the calf muscles pulls the Achilles tendon, which pushes the foot downward. This contraction enables: standing on the toes, walking, running, and jumping. Each Achilles tendon is subject to a person’s entire body weight with each step. Depending upon speed, stride, terrain and additional weight being carried or pushed, each Achilles tendon may be subject to up to 3-12 times a person’s body weight during a sprint or push off.

Clearly, not a good injury for an athlete in a sport that requires running and quick jumping and may even involve having to jump with someone on your back...Let's hope it's not a serious injury.

bob

/

Kobe had more turnovers last night (9) than the entire Laker team had assists (7) in their loss to OKC. Doubt you'll ever see that statistical oddity happen again.

Happened to check scores while watching the Celts and saw the Thunder leading the Lakers 80-47 at the end of three quarters and thought it was a misprint. It wasn't. L.A. outscored OKC 28-11 in a garbage time fourth quarter and still lost by 16.

Even the best teams have occasional nights like that.

The year Boston went 40-1 at home in '86, they lost their only home game by 18, 121-103 to a sub-.500 Blazer team. One of those nights...