For Evan Turner it’s Celtics or big payday

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/05/for_evan_turner_it_s_celtics_or_big_payday



For Evan Turner it’s Celtics or big payday



Mark Murphy

Monday, May 09, 2016





Credit: Christopher Evans
DUE FOR A RAISE: After producing his best NBA season yet, Evan Turner probably will attract some lucrative free agent offers from teams other than the Celtics.



Evan Turner’s new business means stepping back for a moment while agent David Falk begins fleshing out the impending NBA free agent’s market.

As he has said multiple times, Turner hopes that means a return to the Celtics, though as a player who just finished arguably the best season of his career, there will be a lot of alternatives.

A rising salary cap is about to pump lots of money into the marketplace, meaning Turner couldn’t have a better sense of timing if he tried.

The Celtics have an interesting advantage, though.

“I learned that winning’s great and how it’s going to be the most important thing,” said Turner of his main takeaway from the last two years with the Celtics.

Coach Brad Stevens, often bailed out by Turner this season when losing other players to injury, has an interesting takeaway, too.

“Oh, yeah,” said Stevens recently when asked if he wanted Turner to come back. “Evan’s great. Evan has been nothing but a pro since he’s been here — he works. I don’t think we had two conversations about him starting or not starting. He accepted whatever his minutes were, and when they came he knew what his role was and what he had to do to be successful, and he just tried to help the team. I appreciated Evan for that.”

Stevens looks for growth from all of his players, regardless of their age. He was impressed by the mid-range shooting and Turner’s ability to improve his efficiency beyond the 3-point arc. Equal to that is the swingman’s new willingness to shoot the 3-pointer without hesitation.

“The way he shot it after the All-Star break was helpful. He was 52 percent from the corner after the All-Star break,” said Stevens when asked whether Turner was his most versatile offensive player. “His ability to post, his ability to handle the ball, he could get assists off the bench and make plays for teammates. He gave us an option there.”

Stevens’ faith certainly has meaning for Turner.

“It’s huge. You know what I’m saying? It’s definitely huge,” said Turner. “To have the opportunity to be out there in the shining moments, in the key moments, is huge. Once again, you just try your best to try to not let your team down or your coach down and put your team in the best position to win the game.”

Turner admittedly has grown, as well, under Stevens.

“I think I’ve become a better defender,” said Turner. “I also think, once again, my preparation and I think my mindset toward things and bigger pictures. I remember last year, when Brad challenged us after we did a few trades to keep growing and stick with it. I think that my (basketball IQ) has definitely grown. I think once you hit the league and everything, a lot of players are talented but mentally, it’s rare that you get ahead of everybody else. I think as a player, mentally, I’ve grown a lot.”

Now comes a pre-free agency waiting period that will do nothing for his patience. Turner admittedly would like to resolve business quickly, once the market opens on July 1.

“Hopefully, it starts July 1. Hopefully, it’s over July 1,” he said.

“I don’t really have much of a feeling (for it),” he said about his first exposure to the free-agent process. “I’m kind of wondering how it’s going to play out, but other than that, it should be cool. It’s going to be way better than two years ago, right? It’s all going to be way better than two years ago. It should be cool. I haven’t really thought about it. I don’t really know what I think about during the day, but it’s not that. It’ll be cool. Once again, I’ll stay out of trouble until then, and try to keep bettering myself and growing.”



bob


.

I really hope they are able to retain Turner, but somehow, I have my doubts. The money that will be thrown around this summer will leave us shaking our heads. Guys who have questionable talent or heart are going to end up making money that will seem ridiculous. It will be interesting to see what happens here.

Rosalie

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I really hope they are able to retain Turner, but somehow, I have my doubts.  The money that will be thrown around this summer will leave us shaking our heads. Guys who have questionable talent or heart are going to end up making money that will seem ridiculous.  It will be interesting to see what happens here.

Rosalie

Rosalie

It will be interesting to see what the market will be for Turner.

In your opinion how much should the Celtics offer Turner. (high/low figure)

dboss

They were talking about Sully being offfered as much as $15 million per year. To me that is so out of control, but big men seem to get the money. To me, turner is a 10-12 million per. Figure, they are saying that Bradley is unhappy wit$8 million now that the money is going to be thrown around. He signed that contract and was not a happy guy after Christmas this year. Jae Crowder is around $35 million for 4 years. i have not heard him complaining, but once that money starts flying around you have to wonder. The other one is Thomas, I am not sure what his contract is, but it is team friendly for sure.

So, with that being said, 10-12 million seems logical to me. HOWEVER, I am not the player,. God knows what
some teams will throw at him. I just feel this is going to backfire are some point and all these overpaid players may find themselves out of a job.

Now, the other question I would have is: jeff Green has been making $9 plus million dollars per year. He is a free agent this year, what the heck are they going to pay him????

What do you guys think?

Rosalie

Rosalie,

I think Jeff Green will have to do what Rondo did this year.
Sign a 1 year contract and prove that he is still a difference maker.
Rondo probably played himself into $30m of guaranteed money.
Jeff Green has a lot to prove in order for him to get a multi year contract.

You are probably right about Jeff Green. Just think of the money that Rondo lost by doing what he did in Dallas, he was going to hold Danny up for a Max contract, Of course, no way the Celtics were going to give him that kind of money. Looks like they knew alot more about Rondo than the rest of us. He traded away Perk for some of the same reasons. No way he was going to give him the money he made in OKC. However, trading him away when he did probably cost the Celtics a shot at the title that year.

It is strange to talk about Green as having to prove his worth. I was always so sure he would come around, he was such a talented kid who just did not have all the fire in his belly. It was really a shame because we really could have used a guy with his talent night in and night out, but he never be counted on. I hope he banked his money because he will never make $9 million again unless the lightbulb goies off and he plays up to his talent.

Rosalie

I've followed Jeff Greens's career starting at Georgetown and even then he disappeared and was inconsistent. I don't see that changing with that being said, some team is still going to give him crazy money based on potential (there's that word again) his athleticism and what he can do when he decides to do it. That's how bad the NBA has gotten. Too many teams too many players. Go back to the 80's. Perk would be a bench warmer at best and that's if he made the team. There would be less Jeff Greens as well. The talent level in this league is watered down and these owners and players a cleaning up while we sit and watch mediocre Basketball.

I've followed Jeff Greens's career starting at Georgetown and even then he disappeared and was inconsistent. I don't see that changing with that being said, some team is still going to give him crazy money based on potential (there's that word again) his athleticism and what he can do when he decides to do it. That's how bad the NBA has gotten. Too many teams too many players. Go back to the 80's. Perk would be a bench warmer at best and that's if he made the team. There would be less Jeff Greens as well. The talent level in this league is watered down and these owners and players a cleaning up while we sit and watch mediocre Basketball.

I've followed Jeff Greens's career starting at Georgetown and even then he disappeared and was inconsistent. I don't see that changing with that being said, some team is still going to give him crazy money based on potential (there's that word again) his athleticism and what he can do when he decides to do it. That's how bad the NBA has gotten. Too many teams too many players. Go back to the 80's. Perk would be a bench warmer at best and that's if he made the team. There would be less Jeff Greens as well. The talent level in this league is watered down and these owners and players a cleaning up while we sit and watch mediocre Basketball.

I've followed Jeff Greens's career starting at Georgetown and even then he disappeared and was inconsistent. I don't see that changing with that being said, some team is still going to give him crazy money based on potential (there's that word again) his athleticism and what he can do when he decides to do it. That's how bad the NBA has gotten. Too many teams too many players. Go back to the 80's. Perk would be a bench warmer at best and that's if he made the team. There would be less Jeff Greens as well. The talent level in this league is watered down and these owners and players a cleaning up while we sit and watch mediocre Basketball.

Ktronic As most here would attest, I was a Jeff Green fan from the time they traded for him. I will admit that his health issues had something to do with it, as we shared many of the same problems and I marveled at how he returned to such a physical game with the power that he can sometimes go to the basket. He was a good kid too. So, alot of times I let my heart overrule my head as Sam would tell me!!!! You are right, he will probably end up with a good contract, but I cannot imagine him making 10 million dollars,, but, then again, as you say, there is going to be some crazy money out there this summer. I wonder if Doc will give it to him.

Jeff Green has shown a few things since he has come in the league. He has shown that he can play and compete in the NBA. He has also shown he is not a starter on a good team.

I would say he'd get the mid-level exemption but this year, with the money that's getting thrown around? Who knows? Not me.


bob


.

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/turner-open-idea-hometown-discount-celtics

Turner open to idea of 'hometown discount' with Celtics

BOSTON – Evan Turner has enjoyed his two seasons with the Boston Celtics, a time that has seen Turner morph from a perceived lottery-pick bust into one of the best sixth Men in the NBA whose versatility and all-around skillset has been instrumental in the Celtics putting together back-to-back playoff appearances.

And while he will have several suitors this summer when he hits the free agency market, Turner said he is open to the idea of leaving some money on the table and re-sign with the Boston Celtics.

When asked if he would be open to giving the Celtics a “hometown discount,” Turner said, “Of course. I joke with people, this is the first time I left an exit interview and the team wanted me back. I don’t take that lightly, you know what I’m saying? At the end of the day, I’m grateful for that.”

Turner said his exit interview with Danny Ainge, Boston’s president of basketball operations, was a candid conversation about Boston’s goals and aspirations this summer.

“He (Ainge) was honest,” Turner told CSN following a fundraising event for Horizons for Homeless held on Sunday. “Hopefully we can figure out a way to make it work. It’s a lot going on with the team, with the roster and with the draft picks and things like that. There’s definitely admiration on both sides. I trust Danny will do what’s best for the organization.”

In his two seasons in Boston, Turner has become a favorite among fans as well as a hit with the media.

But more important, he has gained the trust of head coach Brad Stevens who trusts the 27-year-old as much as any Celtic especially in the fourth quarter.

Turner, who finished fifth in the voting for the league’s Sixth Man of the Year, led all reserves with 118 assists in the fourth quarter which also ranked fifth among all players.

Having been drafted by Philadelphia with the No. 2 overall pick in 2010, Turner began his career dealing with the enormous weight and expectations that come with being a high draft pick. Ironically, Turner’s best season statistically led to him being traded to Indiana in 2014 which turned out to be a bad fit for Turner and the Pacers.

And the fact that he was hitting the free agent market the summer of 2014 led to him paying for it with few teams showing sincere interest in signing him and even fewer willing to give him the kind of contract a former No. 2 pick receives in his first contract after he’s no longer on the rookie scale. So Turner wound up settling on a two-year, $6.7 million deal with the Celtics.

Rest assured, the deal he signs this summer will pay more than that in the first year.

There will be several teams like the New York Knicks and the Orlando Magic in hot pursuit of Turner this summer because of his versatility and as one league executive told CSNNE.com recently, “the way he impacts winning.”

The executive added, “He doesn’t put up big numbers, but he’ll help you win big games.”

And if Turner has his way, he’ll continue doing that “in a crazy sports town like Boston.”

Turner added, “To be able to have that type of support, I don’t take that lightly.”

I think there are pros and cons for retaining Turner's services.

Pros

Stevens has no hesitation to put the ball in his hands.  He is a difficult cover for most defenses because he is so unpredictable.  He is a very good mid-range shooter that can also get into the paint.  After IT he is the guy running the show.  He is a multi-position player (PG, SG and SF) He is probably the most versatile player on the team.

Cons

DA drafted Terry Rosier last year and he slowly found a small niche in the rotation.  Terry was drafted as a PG.  If Turner continues to get most of the backup minutes at Point where does that leave Rosier?  Turner is an unreliable long distance shooter.  He made a few from the corner late in the season but when he takes deep shots I never think that they are going in.  If Turner was a better outside shooter and wing defender he would be primarily a SF.  And that is a position that Danny must address during the off-season.  Bottom line, Turner needs to be a better SF.  Yes he is a multi-positional player but he is not really that good at any one position.

The other unknown is the $$$.  If you pay Turner in the $10-$12 million range you may compromise your financial ability to add high end free agents.  Also given the plethora of draft picks in the mix over the next 3 years do you want to tie up that much money on a "specialty player"?  

Do you think Boston could go out and sign a guy like Harrison Barnes for similar money?

Is Rosier ready for a bigger role?  (15-18 MPG at the point)

There are obviously a lot of things to consider.

dboss

dboss wrote:I think there are pros and cons for retaining Turner's services.

Pros

Stevens has no hesitation to put the ball in his hands.  He is a difficult cover for most defenses because he is so unpredictable.  He is a very good mid-range shooter that can also get into the paint.  After IT he is the guy running the show.  He is a multi-position player (PG, SG and SF) He is probably the most versatile player on the team.

Cons

DA drafted Terry Rosier last year and he slowly found a small niche in the rotation.  Terry was drafted as a PG.  If Turner continues to get most of the backup minutes at Point where does that leave Rosier?  Turner is an unreliable long distance shooter.  He made a few from the corner late in the season but when he takes deep shots I never think that they are going in.  If Turner was a better outside shooter and wing defender he would be primarily a SF.  And that is a position that Danny must address during the off-season.  Bottom line, Turner needs to be a better SF.  Yes he is a multi-positional player but he is not really that good at any one position.

The other unknown is the $$$.  If you pay Turner in the $10-$12 million range you may compromise your financial ability to add high end free agents.  Also given the plethora of draft picks in the mix over the next 3 years do you want to tie up that much money on a "specialty player"?  

Do you think Boston could go out and sign a guy like Harrison Barnes for similar money?

Is Rosier ready for a bigger role?  (15-18 MPG at the point)

There are obviously a lot of things to consider.

dboss

dboss,


A pretty concise assessment.

Harrison Barnes turned down a 4 year $64M contract extension last summer.  That's $16M/year and that was before the big money hit the salary cap.

Barnes and Turner are different players.  Barnes can shoot threes, he is a very physical defender (he looks very wiry, and he is, but he is one of the strongest players pound-for-pound on the Warriors) but he isn't a passer like Turner nor is he a ball handler like Turner.  Off-the-ball vs on-the-ball.  Rozier can really only play one position.  He needs to upgrade his shooting.  He will need another year, perhaps, to become a point guard because that position has the longest learning curve in the NBA.  My point is that there is still a year or maybe even two where having Turner to handle the majority of that role and still bring Rozier along is still of value.


bob


.

The draft may well have a lot to do with Turner's return prospects.

If we end up with Valentine, a player likely on our radar, for example, Turner becomes expendable.  Valentine would give us the versatility of Turner, which is critical, but add needed outside shooting and perhaps a little uptick on defense.

There are a few wings we could land in the draft that might spell the end of Turner's Boston run.  Either way is OK.  I think he really rebuilt his career here and was a very productive player acquired on the cheap.

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:I think there are pros and cons for retaining Turner's services.

Pros

Stevens has no hesitation to put the ball in his hands.  He is a difficult cover for most defenses because he is so unpredictable.  He is a very good mid-range shooter that can also get into the paint.  After IT he is the guy running the show.  He is a multi-position player (PG, SG and SF) He is probably the most versatile player on the team.

Cons

DA drafted Terry Rosier last year and he slowly found a small niche in the rotation.  Terry was drafted as a PG.  If Turner continues to get most of the backup minutes at Point where does that leave Rosier?  Turner is an unreliable long distance shooter.  He made a few from the corner late in the season but when he takes deep shots I never think that they are going in.  If Turner was a better outside shooter and wing defender he would be primarily a SF.  And that is a position that Danny must address during the off-season.  Bottom line, Turner needs to be a better SF.  Yes he is a multi-positional player but he is not really that good at any one position.

The other unknown is the $$$.  If you pay Turner in the $10-$12 million range you may compromise your financial ability to add high end free agents.  Also given the plethora of draft picks in the mix over the next 3 years do you want to tie up that much money on a "specialty player"?  

Do you think Boston could go out and sign a guy like Harrison Barnes for similar money?

Is Rosier ready for a bigger role?  (15-18 MPG at the point)

There are obviously a lot of things to consider.

dboss

dboss,


A pretty concise assessment.

Harrison Barnes turned down a 4 year $64M contract extension last summer.  That's $16M/year and that was before the big money hit the salary cap.

Barnes and Turner are different players.  Barnes can shoot threes, he is a very physical defender (he looks very wiry, and he is, but he is one of the strongest players pound-for-pound on the Warriors) but he isn't a passer like Turner nor is he a ball handler like Turner.  Off-the-ball vs on-the-ball.  Rozier can really only play one position.  He needs to upgrade his shooting.  He will need another year, perhaps, to become a point guard because that position has the longest learning curve in the NBA.  My point is that there is still a year or maybe even two where having Turner to handle the majority of that role and still bring Rozier along is still of value.


bob


.

So it sounds like you do not think that Rosier is ready to become a regular Rotation player at the PG position.  So Turner babysits the position for a few years @ $$?

dboss

NYCelt wrote:The draft may well have a lot to do with Turner's return prospects.

If we end up with Valentine, a player likely on our radar, for example, Turner becomes expendable.  Valentine would give us the versatility of Turner, which is critical, but add needed outside shooting and perhaps a little uptick on defense.

There are a few wings we could land in the draft that might spell the end of Turner's Boston run.  Either way is OK.  I think he really rebuilt his career here and was a very productive player acquired on the cheap.

NYCelt

Valentine is the 3 tool player that can do what Turner does and he can shoot from the perimeter. It is clear that we are on the same page. Valentine makes Turner expendable. But I also think that a Terry Rosier playing 15-18 PMG with the ball in his hands and playing man to man defense on those bed bug quick Point guards would also eliminate the need for the Celtics to resign Turner.

dboss

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:I think there are pros and cons for retaining Turner's services.

Pros

Stevens has no hesitation to put the ball in his hands.  He is a difficult cover for most defenses because he is so unpredictable.  He is a very good mid-range shooter that can also get into the paint.  After IT he is the guy running the show.  He is a multi-position player (PG, SG and SF) He is probably the most versatile player on the team.

Cons

DA drafted Terry Rosier last year and he slowly found a small niche in the rotation.  Terry was drafted as a PG.  If Turner continues to get most of the backup minutes at Point where does that leave Rosier?  Turner is an unreliable long distance shooter.  He made a few from the corner late in the season but when he takes deep shots I never think that they are going in.  If Turner was a better outside shooter and wing defender he would be primarily a SF.  And that is a position that Danny must address during the off-season.  Bottom line, Turner needs to be a better SF.  Yes he is a multi-positional player but he is not really that good at any one position.

The other unknown is the $$$.  If you pay Turner in the $10-$12 million range you may compromise your financial ability to add high end free agents.  Also given the plethora of draft picks in the mix over the next 3 years do you want to tie up that much money on a "specialty player"?  

Do you think Boston could go out and sign a guy like Harrison Barnes for similar money?

Is Rosier ready for a bigger role?  (15-18 MPG at the point)

There are obviously a lot of things to consider.

dboss

dboss,


A pretty concise assessment.

Harrison Barnes turned down a 4 year $64M contract extension last summer.  That's $16M/year and that was before the big money hit the salary cap.

Barnes and Turner are different players.  Barnes can shoot threes, he is a very physical defender (he looks very wiry, and he is, but he is one of the strongest players pound-for-pound on the Warriors) but he isn't a passer like Turner nor is he a ball handler like Turner.  Off-the-ball vs on-the-ball.  Rosier can really only play one position.  He needs to upgrade his shooting.  He will need another year, perhaps, to become a point guard because that position has the longest learning curve in the NBA.  My point is that there is still a year or maybe even two where having Turner to handle the majority of that role and still bring Rozier along is still of value.


bob


.

Bob $64 mill sounds like a real solid offer. Now the Warriors have a lot of guys that will be free agents. Sounds like Barnes may want that $20 mill per. He does swing to the PF as well so you are looking at a 2 position player.Is he the type of player that can average 15-20 PPG?

dboss

dboss wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:I think there are pros and cons for retaining Turner's services.

Pros

Stevens has no hesitation to put the ball in his hands.  He is a difficult cover for most defenses because he is so unpredictable.  He is a very good mid-range shooter that can also get into the paint.  After IT he is the guy running the show.  He is a multi-position player (PG, SG and SF) He is probably the most versatile player on the team.

Cons

DA drafted Terry Rosier last year and he slowly found a small niche in the rotation.  Terry was drafted as a PG.  If Turner continues to get most of the backup minutes at Point where does that leave Rosier?  Turner is an unreliable long distance shooter.  He made a few from the corner late in the season but when he takes deep shots I never think that they are going in.  If Turner was a better outside shooter and wing defender he would be primarily a SF.  And that is a position that Danny must address during the off-season.  Bottom line, Turner needs to be a better SF.  Yes he is a multi-positional player but he is not really that good at any one position.

The other unknown is the $$$.  If you pay Turner in the $10-$12 million range you may compromise your financial ability to add high end free agents.  Also given the plethora of draft picks in the mix over the next 3 years do you want to tie up that much money on a "specialty player"?  

Do you think Boston could go out and sign a guy like Harrison Barnes for similar money?

Is Rosier ready for a bigger role?  (15-18 MPG at the point)

There are obviously a lot of things to consider.

dboss

dboss,


A pretty concise assessment.

Harrison Barnes turned down a 4 year $64M contract extension last summer.  That's $16M/year and that was before the big money hit the salary cap.

Barnes and Turner are different players.  Barnes can shoot threes, he is a very physical defender (he looks very wiry, and he is, but he is one of the strongest players pound-for-pound on the Warriors) but he isn't a passer like Turner nor is he a ball handler like Turner.  Off-the-ball vs on-the-ball.  Rozier can really only play one position.  He needs to upgrade his shooting.  He will need another year, perhaps, to become a point guard because that position has the longest learning curve in the NBA.  My point is that there is still a year or maybe even two where having Turner to handle the majority of that role and still bring Rozier along is still of value.


bob


.

So it sounds like you do not think that Rosier is ready to become a regular Rotation player at the PG position.  So Turner abysits the pistion for a few years @ $$?

dboss

dboss,

In a nutshell, no. I do not think Rozier is ready to be an NBA point guard. He is not a shooter (yet), he is especially not a good shooter off the dribble, especially especially not off the dribble in traffic, and he has not shown me exceptionally quick or sharp floor generalship. He plays great defense and he is a great rebounder for his size. Those observations, which may be incorrect but are what I am feeling about him as of today, make him a role player off the bench. Not the heir apparent nor a mini-IT nor even the replacement for Evan Turner. Not yet, anyway. He has promised he will work hard this year, and he seems to have that drive/work ethic/ganas that we all like but until I see that translate that into play on the court then I'm holding my opinion in abeyance. May I point out that Avery Bradley has worked very hard for years to develop his point guard skills, under the tutelage of several coaching staffs, and he still isn't much further along than he was when he started. It is not inconceivable that Rozier could be another Avery Bradley, since he is coming into the league with the same calling card (defense) the same scoring rep (ok, but not great) and the same size disadvantages (6'2", really too short to play 2 on defense or offense) and an only slightly better floor generalship rep. That wouldn't be the worst thing to happen, I think we can all agree with that, but that would make Avery the one who is replaceable and not Turner.


bob


.

dboss wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:I think there are pros and cons for retaining Turner's services.

Pros

Stevens has no hesitation to put the ball in his hands.  He is a difficult cover for most defenses because he is so unpredictable.  He is a very good mid-range shooter that can also get into the paint.  After IT he is the guy running the show.  He is a multi-position player (PG, SG and SF) He is probably the most versatile player on the team.

Cons

DA drafted Terry Rosier last year and he slowly found a small niche in the rotation.  Terry was drafted as a PG.  If Turner continues to get most of the backup minutes at Point where does that leave Rosier?  Turner is an unreliable long distance shooter.  He made a few from the corner late in the season but when he takes deep shots I never think that they are going in.  If Turner was a better outside shooter and wing defender he would be primarily a SF.  And that is a position that Danny must address during the off-season.  Bottom line, Turner needs to be a better SF.  Yes he is a multi-positional player but he is not really that good at any one position.

The other unknown is the $$$.  If you pay Turner in the $10-$12 million range you may compromise your financial ability to add high end free agents.  Also given the plethora of draft picks in the mix over the next 3 years do you want to tie up that much money on a "specialty player"?  

Do you think Boston could go out and sign a guy like Harrison Barnes for similar money?

Is Rosier ready for a bigger role?  (15-18 MPG at the point)

There are obviously a lot of things to consider.

dboss

dboss,


A pretty concise assessment.

Harrison Barnes turned down a 4 year $64M contract extension last summer.  That's $16M/year and that was before the big money hit the salary cap.

Barnes and Turner are different players.  Barnes can shoot threes, he is a very physical defender (he looks very wiry, and he is, but he is one of the strongest players pound-for-pound on the Warriors) but he isn't a passer like Turner nor is he a ball handler like Turner.  Off-the-ball vs on-the-ball.  Rosier can really only play one position.  He needs to upgrade his shooting.  He will need another year, perhaps, to become a point guard because that position has the longest learning curve in the NBA.  My point is that there is still a year or maybe even two where having Turner to handle the majority of that role and still bring Rozier along is still of value.


bob


.

Bob $64 mill sounds like a real solid offer.  Now the Warriors have a lot of guys that will be free agents.  Sounds like Barnes  may want that $20 mill per.    He does swing to the PF as well so you are looking at a 2 position player.Is he the type of player that can average 15-20 PPG?  

dboss

dboss,

He never has, yet. His top scoring year was last year and he averaged 11.7ppg in in 30.9 minutes. Some of that might be from being on a team with Curry and Thompson and Green, but he hasn't done it yet.

He doesn't strike me as being particularly offensively creative. He catches-and-shoots well, he moves without the ball well, but he isn't the type of player you give the ball out to on top and let him do his thing and his thing forces the defense to adjust and that creates opportunities for other players. Turner does that.


bob


.

dboss wrote:

NYCelt wrote:The draft may well have a lot to do with Turner's return prospects.

If we end up with Valentine, a player likely on our radar, for example, Turner becomes expendable.  Valentine would give us the versatility of Turner, which is critical, but add needed outside shooting and perhaps a little uptick on defense.

There are a few wings we could land in the draft that might spell the end of Turner's Boston run.  Either way is OK.  I think he really rebuilt his career here and was a very productive player acquired on the cheap.

NYCelt

Valentine is the 3 tool player that can do what Turner does and he can shoot from the perimeter.  It is clear that we are on the same page.  Valentine makes Turner expendable.   But I also think that a Terry Rosier playing 15-18 PMG with the ball in his hands and playing man to man defense on those bed bug quick Point guards would also eliminate the need for the Celtics to resign Turner.

dboss

dboss,

Agree with you about Rozier as well. I've speculated in other threads that Rozier has shown enough to merit being part of the guard rotation, at point, second on the depth chart behind IT. He will need consistent minutes there to develop along with incoming players and a changing roster.

Regards

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:I think there are pros and cons for retaining Turner's services.

Pros

Stevens has no hesitation to put the ball in his hands.  He is a difficult cover for most defenses because he is so unpredictable.  He is a very good mid-range shooter that can also get into the paint.  After IT he is the guy running the show.  He is a multi-position player (PG, SG and SF) He is probably the most versatile player on the team.

Cons

DA drafted Terry Rosier last year and he slowly found a small niche in the rotation.  Terry was drafted as a PG.  If Turner continues to get most of the backup minutes at Point where does that leave Rosier?  Turner is an unreliable long distance shooter.  He made a few from the corner late in the season but when he takes deep shots I never think that they are going in.  If Turner was a better outside shooter and wing defender he would be primarily a SF.  And that is a position that Danny must address during the off-season.  Bottom line, Turner needs to be a better SF.  Yes he is a multi-positional player but he is not really that good at any one position.

The other unknown is the $$$.  If you pay Turner in the $10-$12 million range you may compromise your financial ability to add high end free agents.  Also given the plethora of draft picks in the mix over the next 3 years do you want to tie up that much money on a "specialty player"?  

Do you think Boston could go out and sign a guy like Harrison Barnes for similar money?

Is Rosier ready for a bigger role?  (15-18 MPG at the point)

There are obviously a lot of things to consider.

dboss

dboss,


A pretty concise assessment.

Harrison Barnes turned down a 4 year $64M contract extension last summer.  That's $16M/year and that was before the big money hit the salary cap.

Barnes and Turner are different players.  Barnes can shoot threes, he is a very physical defender (he looks very wiry, and he is, but he is one of the strongest players pound-for-pound on the Warriors) but he isn't a passer like Turner nor is he a ball handler like Turner.  Off-the-ball vs on-the-ball.  Rosier can really only play one position.  He needs to upgrade his shooting.  He will need another year, perhaps, to become a point guard because that position has the longest learning curve in the NBA.  My point is that there is still a year or maybe even two where having Turner to handle the majority of that role and still bring Rozier along is still of value.


bob


.

Bob $64 mill sounds like a real solid offer.  Now the Warriors have a lot of guys that will be free agents.  Sounds like Barnes  may want that $20 mill per.    He does swing to the PF as well so you are looking at a 2 position player.Is he the type of player that can average 15-20 PPG?  

dboss

dboss,

He never has, yet.  His top scoring year was last year and he averaged 11.7ppg in in 30.9 minutes.  Some of that might be from being on a team with Curry and Thompson and Green, but he hasn't done it yet.

He doesn't strike me as being particularly offensively creative.  He catches-and-shoots well, he moves without the ball well, but he isn't the type of player you give the ball out to on top and let him do his thing and his thing forces the defense to adjust and that creates opportunities for other players.  Turner does that.


bob


.

Bob

thanks for the information. I see that he really does not take a lot of shots

dboss wrote:

NYCelt wrote:The draft may well have a lot to do with Turner's return prospects.

If we end up with Valentine, a player likely on our radar, for example, Turner becomes expendable.  Valentine would give us the versatility of Turner, which is critical, but add needed outside shooting and perhaps a little uptick on defense.

There are a few wings we could land in the draft that might spell the end of Turner's Boston run.  Either way is OK.  I think he really rebuilt his career here and was a very productive player acquired on the cheap.

NYCelt

Valentine is the 3 tool player that can do what Turner does and he can shoot from the perimeter.  It is clear that we are on the same page.  Valentine makes Turner expendable.   But I also think that a Terry Rosier playing 15-18 PMG with the ball in his hands and playing man to man defense on those bed bug quick Point guards would also eliminate the need for the Celtics to resign Turner.

dboss

Don't be too quick to assume Valentine can replace what Turner does. There are just so many busts - until I see them do it regularly in the nba (as Turner has now for multiple seasons), I don't assume they can replace anybody's numbers.