What did Thon Maker learn in his Celtics workout? 'I'm pretty good'/ Thon Maker's mark: Mystery man believes he's lottery pick

dboss wrote:Thon is creeping up the draft boards.

Thursday's workout with the Celtics serves to confirm other reports I have read about his workout with other team.  He is an intriguing prospect.  He can make the 3 ball which automatically gets my attention but one of the little talked about skills is his handle.

I have never sen a player at his size handle the rock like he does.

He will not get past Utah at 12.  If Boston wants him they may have to move up from 16.  

dboss

If not trade down from 3, or draft him at 3. There's really no limit to how high Maker could go by the time draft day arrives and most/all NBA teams get familiar with a guy they didn't scout because he wasn't supposed to be in this draft.

People talk about what a great draft the 2017 draft is supposed to be, but Maker could easily be the best player from this draft and next year's draft as well, and not taking him at 3 just because he's ranked lower at the moment could very well be a recipe for twenty years of regret.

I'm glad he's not lifting too much weight now. Hard on the knees and shoulders. Wait until he's 21 for all that. We probably should trade up our #16 to get Thon earlier.

worcester wrote:I'm glad he's not lifting too much weight now. Hard on the knees and shoulders. Wait until he's 21 for all that. We probably should trade up  our #16 to get Thon  earlier.

Vinny Del Negro ‏@VinnyDHoops 2h2 hours ago
Brandon Ingram needs to add strength but more weight than his body is used to could lead to knee, foot problems with heavy workload.

I just went to the gym to lift for the first time in years (like NYCelt). My body is already dealing with more weight than it was built to handle. Muscle isn't the issue, however.

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Thon is creeping up the draft boards.

Thursday's workout with the Celtics serves to confirm other reports I have read about his workout with other team.  He is an intriguing prospect.  He can make the 3 ball which automatically gets my attention but one of the little talked about skills is his handle.

I have never sen a player at his size handle the rock like he does.

He will not get past Utah at 12.  If Boston wants him they may have to move up from 16.  

dboss

If not trade down from 3, or draft him at 3. There's really no limit to how high Maker could go by the time draft day arrives and most/all NBA teams get familiar with a guy they didn't scout because he wasn't supposed to be in this draft.

People talk about what a great draft the 2017 draft is supposed to be, but Maker could easily be the best player from this draft and next year's draft as well, and not taking him at 3 just because he's ranked lower at the moment could very well be a recipe for twenty years of regret.

OK time to take a breath there....Maker at #3?

come on...we all know you've fallen in love with him and you may be correct that in 20 years he'll have finished a hall of fame career. But lets stay serious.

I'm sorry, but all this Maker hype is just like last year with Upshaw.

I hope for his sake Maker ends up being closer to what you think he is than Upshaw has been.

kdp59 wrote:

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Thon is creeping up the draft boards.

Thursday's workout with the Celtics serves to confirm other reports I have read about his workout with other team.  He is an intriguing prospect.  He can make the 3 ball which automatically gets my attention but one of the little talked about skills is his handle.

I have never sen a player at his size handle the rock like he does.

He will not get past Utah at 12.  If Boston wants him they may have to move up from 16.  

dboss

If not trade down from 3, or draft him at 3. There's really no limit to how high Maker could go by the time draft day arrives and most/all NBA teams get familiar with a guy they didn't scout because he wasn't supposed to be in this draft.

People talk about what a great draft the 2017 draft is supposed to be, but Maker could easily be the best player from this draft and next year's draft as well, and not taking him at 3 just because he's ranked lower at the moment could very well be a recipe for twenty years of regret.

OK time to take a breath there....Maker at #3?

come on...we all know you've fallen in love with him and you may be correct that in 20 years he'll have finished a hall of fame career. But lets stay serious.

I'm sorry, but all this Maker hype is just like last year with Upshaw.

I hope for his sake Maker ends up being closer to what you think he is than Upshaw has been.

Upshaw was a drug addict who succumbed to his demons. I always trusted Danny to get the inside scoop on him, and I was always only talking about Upshaw as a late first or second round pick.

If Upshaw had been able to stay sober for just one season he would have contributed more than Marcus Thornton ever will in Boston.

arambone wrote:

kdp59 wrote:

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Thon is creeping up the draft boards.

Thursday's workout with the Celtics serves to confirm other reports I have read about his workout with other team.  He is an intriguing prospect.  He can make the 3 ball which automatically gets my attention but one of the little talked about skills is his handle.

I have never sen a player at his size handle the rock like he does.

He will not get past Utah at 12.  If Boston wants him they may have to move up from 16.  

dboss

If not trade down from 3, or draft him at 3. There's really no limit to how high Maker could go by the time draft day arrives and most/all NBA teams get familiar with a guy they didn't scout because he wasn't supposed to be in this draft.

People talk about what a great draft the 2017 draft is supposed to be, but Maker could easily be the best player from this draft and next year's draft as well, and not taking him at 3 just because he's ranked lower at the moment could very well be a recipe for twenty years of regret.

OK time to take a breath there....Maker at #3?

come on...we all know you've fallen in love with him and you may be correct that in 20 years he'll have finished a hall of fame career. But lets stay serious.

I'm sorry, but all this Maker hype is just like last year with Upshaw.

I hope for his sake Maker ends up being closer to what you think he is than Upshaw has been.

Upshaw was a drug addict who succumbed to his demons. I always trusted Danny to get the inside scoop on him, and I was always only talking about Upshaw as a late first or second round pick.

If Upshaw had been able to stay sober for just one season he would have contributed more than Marcus Thornton ever will in Boston.

Upshaw discussion last May 15th below

https://samcelt.forumotion.net/t9104-robert-upshaw-major-fireworks

There's the opinions as of May 15th 2015.

swish

Bone

I would not use the 3rd pick on him

I really like the kid but not that much. That would be a reach. But maybe the Celtics could trade up to secure 2 top 10 or top 12 picks.

Remember we have some 2nd round picks to use an well.

Dboss

swish wrote:

arambone wrote:

kdp59 wrote:

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Thon is creeping up the draft boards.

Thursday's workout with the Celtics serves to confirm other reports I have read about his workout with other team.  He is an intriguing prospect.  He can make the 3 ball which automatically gets my attention but one of the little talked about skills is his handle.

I have never sen a player at his size handle the rock like he does.

He will not get past Utah at 12.  If Boston wants him they may have to move up from 16.  

dboss

If not trade down from 3, or draft him at 3. There's really no limit to how high Maker could go by the time draft day arrives and most/all NBA teams get familiar with a guy they didn't scout because he wasn't supposed to be in this draft.

People talk about what a great draft the 2017 draft is supposed to be, but Maker could easily be the best player from this draft and next year's draft as well, and not taking him at 3 just because he's ranked lower at the moment could very well be a recipe for twenty years of regret.

OK time to take a breath there....Maker at #3?

come on...we all know you've fallen in love with him and you may be correct that in 20 years he'll have finished a hall of fame career. But lets stay serious.

I'm sorry, but all this Maker hype is just like last year with Upshaw.

I hope for his sake Maker ends up being closer to what you think he is than Upshaw has been.

Upshaw was a drug addict who succumbed to his demons. I always trusted Danny to get the inside scoop on him, and I was always only talking about Upshaw as a late first or second round pick.

If Upshaw had been able to stay sober for just one season he would have contributed more than Marcus Thornton ever will in Boston.

Upshaw discussion last May 15th below

  https://samcelt.forumotion.net/t9104-robert-upshaw-major-fireworks

 There's the opinions as of May 15th 2015.

  swish

 

Umm. I guess I did say "late first round or second round", and 16 is technically late first round, but good find. I guess I was a little over-enthusiastic about the guy.

dboss wrote:Bone

I would not use the 3rd pick on him

I really like the kid but not that much.  That would be a reach.  But maybe the Celtics could trade up to secure 2 top 10 or top 12 picks.

Remember we have some 2nd round picks to use an well.

Dboss

Or even trade down AND trade up, and get two of these top prospects.

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Bone

I would not use the 3rd pick on him

I really like the kid but not that much.  That would be a reach.  But maybe the Celtics could trade up to secure 2 top 10 or top 12 picks.

Remember we have some 2nd round picks to use an well.

Dboss

Or even trade down AND trade up, and get two of these top prospects.

Bone..as long as  the result yields high 3 point shot makers.   My position has not and will not change.  Funny Ingram is thin as a flavor straw and we are concerned that Maker needs to add some bulk.  To me the only question is does he have talent and a multiple skill set.  The answer is yes.  But get me a knock down SG and I'm Happy and if we draft Maker, I'm happy.

The Celtics have never had these many assets at the same time.

But I am keeping the core and I am adding to it.  Once again my core is IT, AB,MS, JC, KO, JM and TR.   The Celtics can trade or cut the other 8 players.  The two rooks are still intriguing and I think they will not disappointed especially Mickey.

Now of course the Celtics are not going to have 8 new players but you get my point.

Dboss

Dboss

interesting that you put Mickey on your "do not move" list.

the guy may end up being an NBA player, but to date he has yet to show it to me.

he has shown he can play at a high level in the d-league, but that doesn't always translate to the big time.

Hunter got some action early in the season, as Brad felt he was ready (he wasn't) and most us sat and watched for most of the year as Rozier was glued to the bench ( some of us thinking what a dumb pick Danny made). Then at the end of the season Brad felt Rozier was ready and started playing him in the rotation. While his play was mixed, we saw the potential when he got his chance.

Until Mickey can convince the coach he is ready and then shows that potential, to me he's just another second round pick. Though I did think he would get picked in the late first last year.

But reading your post here does help me to understand your thinking about trading Bradley for Butler. I see that as taking the next step and being ready t compete now ( with other moves), you may feel the team needs to not "jump the gun" on the rebuild and keep adding assets instead.

the problem I have with that is there are only so many roster spots for assets. IF we have a team of 6-8 men we have depth but are we any closer to being contenders?

perhaps we can be. I have said before when a team starts to win games, the all-star games and props come to the players on that team.

case in point this year

IT being named to the All-star team
Bradley being named to the all defense team

I really enjoyed last season's Celtics team for probably the same reasons that most of the other posters liked them.

The 'core' players made a difference and they were fun to watch on a nightly basis, but if anyone is wondering if all these core players have to return for the Cs to be better in 2017 the answer is probably no.

For the most part, a 'core' player is a player who exemplifies the best of his skills in the truest of team settings, and the team setting is pretty much established by the head coach and his staff in a rebuilding situation. None of our 'core' players were core players on their previous NBA teams, but they have become core players for us because of the 'program' that Stevens initiated and is running in Boston.

Crowder was a bench player in Dallas, Turner was a second thought when leaving Indianapolis after getting bumped out of Philadelphia, Zeller was a bench guy in Cleveland, Thomas was sharing the point in Phoenix with two other guys, Zerebko was not even playing a bench role in Detroit, etc. Sullinger, Olynyk, Bradley, Smart and the three rookies joined us through the draft.

Depending upon on how Ainge moves this summer, some of the guys who were the core last year may have to move on. If he decides to hurry the re-build along and does some trading some of these guys will have to be included in said trades because no guy with a salary of a star is going to be added without some salary going to another team. Draft picks and James Young by themselves are not going to bring in Demarcus Cousins or some other such star player.

If Ainge decides to stay in the idea of adding through the draft (pick #3 is a nice place to start) not as many of the core players from 2016 will likely leave.

New guys will fit into the program that is on-going under Stevens' style as I highly doubt that anyone is going to be added to this team who is "going to be too big" for the team with Ainge and Stevens around with the team still moving forward.

kdp59 wrote:interesting that you put Mickey on your "do not move" list.

the guy may end up being an NBA player, but to date he has yet to show it to me.

he has shown he can play at a high level in the d-league, but that doesn't always translate to the big time.

Hunter got some action early in the season, as Brad felt he was ready (he wasn't) and most us sat and watched for most of the year as Rozier was glued to the bench ( some of us thinking what a dumb pick Danny made). Then at the end of the season Brad felt Rozier was ready and started playing him in the rotation.  While his play was mixed, we saw the potential when he got his chance.

Until Mickey can convince the coach he is ready and then shows that potential, to me he's just another second round pick. Though I did think he would get picked in the late first last year.

But reading your post here does help me to understand your thinking about trading Bradley for Butler. I see that as taking the next step and being ready t compete now ( with other moves), you may feel the team needs to not "jump the gun" on the rebuild and keep adding assets instead.

the problem I have with that  is there are only so many roster spots for assets. IF we have a team of 6-8 men we have depth but are we any closer to being contenders?

perhaps we can be. I have said before when a team starts to win games, the all-star games and props come to the players on that team.

case in point this year

IT being named to the All-star team
Bradley being named to the all defense team

KDP59

I put Mickey and Rozier on my core list although anyone can be traded.

Mickey is on there because every time he has been given a few minutes here or there he has played well and his skill set was in evidence.  He is a rim protector with a 7' 3" wingspan.  He can rebound the basketball and should get even better as he adds more strength.  He can score around the rim and should develop into a reliable shooter out to 18'.  He runs the court well.  We are going to need a PF if Sully is traded or cut loose so Mickey is some insurance if that happens.  

Rozier deserves a closer look.  I was against picking him in the draft because he came in as a poor 3 point shooter.  I think he could become a solid defender at the point, strong rebounder (reminds me of Rondo) and a slasher that can dribble penetrate.  Plus he is pretty damn quick getting up and down.

Let me clarify my Butler/Bradley thoughts.

Is Butler an upgrade over Bradley?    YES   Is the starting SG a position on the team that needs immediate attention?  NO  Bradley is the best 2 way player on the team.  Are there other areas that need immediate attention?  The Celtics are pretty solid at the 1 and 2.  Upgrades are needed in the order of importance at the 5, 4 and 3.  So if the Celtics were to trade a key asset like Bradley as well as the #3 pick which should turn into a high end addition, you would not be getting equal value unless the player you are trading for is better than Butler and addresses a positional need.  The  financial aspect should also be considered. 

I would rather see the Celtics use free agency to add the players that they need instead of trading away key assets.  Obviously we have tons of draft picks and need to move some but the #3 pick is gold and I would never trade that pick in combination with other assets unless I am getting a superstar in return.  Butler is still a notch below super stardom and he does not represent a position of need.

There is the argument that in order to attract a high end free agent we have to have player X, Y or Z on the roster.  However that thinking may stem from the 2007 rebuild where KG was not going to come to Boston unless Ray Allen was in tow.  Consider that 2007 was the most embarrassing year in the history of the Boston Celtics.  The team lost 18 games in a row.  18 Games!   It is a different story now.  The team has gone to the playoffs for 2 years in a row.  They have the cap space to sign 2 max contract players without needing to move any significant assets.,  Free agents should not dictate to the Celtics because the Celtics are not in a desperate  situation.  

I tend to have a more conservative approach.  There is a great chance that we will be able to add one really good player in each of the next 3 years by simply retaining our draft picks.  The long term impact on our competitive position with respect to both talent and financial considerations would be more favorable.   I'm keeping the cream of our draft picks and would be more than willing to move the rest of them if the opportunity presents itself.  I'm patient because building a long term competitive team from the ground up assures that the foundation is rock solid.  We do not have one guy to build around.  We have a team with a strong core to build around.  We do not have a 10 year veteran that has to win now and is threatening to go elsewhere unless we appease him.


dboss