Jimmy Butler trade rumors: Minnesota Timberwolves, Boston Celtics reportedly interested

Hard to picture the Bulls would move Butler, but the #5 pick and Zach LaVine would have to be tempting.

The #5 pick, LaVine AND Dieng would be a move the Bulls 100% should do and would trump our offers unless we included the 2017 Nets pick, which the C's should not do.

If I am the Bulls I hold out for that but the T'Wolves would understandably balk at giving up their 3rd and 5th best players along with the pick. Due to just turning 21 in March and being owed just 5.5 million over the next 2 years before RFA I consider LaVine better than Rubio, who turns 27 in October and is owed 42 million over the next 3. 

#5, Muhammad and Dieng is probably enough as well and is the deal I would say is most fair to both sides.  

The Bulls should want LaVine, since he is entering a 3rd season where young guys often breakout and has the most chance to be a star. He can play some PG allowing Rose to play off the ball. With pick #5 I'd expect the Bulls to take Chriss or Bender. 

The T'Wolves should try and give the Bulls Pekovic and the 2/24 left on his deal if they give up LaVine. Pek is always injured but at 30 might be able to get back to the guy who put up 17/9 a few years back isn't a horrible stopgap to replace the losses of Noah and Gasol up front as the Bulls rebuild over a few years.

A T'Wolves team of Rubio-Butler-Wiggins-KAT and Dieng could make some noise next year. 

Too bad it wasn't their 2017 pick top 10 (or was it lotto?) protected that the Celtics owned instead of their 2016 one.

Ram wrote:The #5 pick, LaVine AND Dieng would be a move the Bulls 100% should do and would trump our offers unless we included the 2017 Nets pick, which the C's should not do.

If I am the Bulls I hold out for that but the T'Wolves would understandably balk at giving up their 3rd and 5th best players along with the pick. Due to just turning 21 in March and being owed just 5.5 million over the next 2 years before RFA I consider LaVine better than Rubio, who turns 27 in October and is owed 42 million over the next 3. 

#5, Muhammad and Dieng is probably enough as well and is the deal I would say is most fair to both sides.  

The Bulls should want LaVine, since he is entering a 3rd season where young guys often breakout and has the most chance to be a star. He can play some PG allowing Rose to play off the ball. With pick #5 I'd expect the Bulls to take Chriss or Bender. 

The T'Wolves should try and give the Bulls Pekovic and the 2/24 left on his deal if they give up LaVine. Pek is always injured but at 30 might be able to get back to the guy who put up 17/9 a few years back isn't a horrible stopgap to replace the losses of Noah and Gasol up front as the Bulls rebuild over a few years.

I don't think the #5 and Muhammed and Dieng is nearly enough.
Minnesota will probably demand a very high draft pick, other draft picks and at least one starter.
#5 and LaVine are the starting points.
I do not think Minnesota will have enough assets to trade to Chicago compared to other teams.

The difference between a team like Chicago and teams like Minnesota and Boston is that Chicago has to rebuild and a quick way to get that started is by moving Butler.

I say "Don't shot 'em, let 'em burn"

Boston and Mn are well into their rebuild.  Both have high draft picks this year and both could opt to use their # 1 pick.  Mn has done quite well thus far and has made some really good decisions like moving Kevin love and getting Wiggins.

If MN can draft a PF they would be at a point where adding rotation upgrades is all they would need to do.  Thibs is going to coach them hard so expect to see a defensive minded team

If I'm Minny I am not moving Levine, Dieng and # 5 for Butler.  MN is already right there.  Chicago is stuck in neutral.  Let them stay stuck.

dboss

Bob

It has nothing to do with conference.

I am making a point that Mn has done a pretty good job and has a really nice young and developing team. They are going to be really good with or without Butler however Chicago needs to move Butler or they are in for a long rebuild.

I think they would be helping the Bulls more than the other way around.

dboss

If this story is true, it looks like Chicago will want a ton for Butler.
I would too if he was on my team.

Report: Bulls won't trade Jimmy Butler to Wolves unless they get Andrew Wiggins

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-bulls-wont-trade-jimmy-butler-to-wolves-unless-they-get-andrew-wiggins/

TJ,

Not sure if Minnesota benefits much from getting Butler if he costs them Wiggins and their first round pick as this may not add much to their team.

Wiggins is a developing player with a huge upside, is very inexpensive for at least a couple more years and who knows who their draft pick might turn out to be.

If Chicago wants to move Butler as part of a rebuild I think that they will have to settle for less in return as far as players in a trade that would get them a high first round pick this year.

wideclyde wrote:TJ,

Not sure if Minnesota benefits much from getting Butler if he costs them Wiggins and their first round pick as this may not add much to their team.

Wiggins is a developing player with a huge upside, is very inexpensive for at least a couple more years and who knows who their draft pick might turn out to be.

If Chicago wants to move Butler as part of a rebuild I think that they will have to settle for less in return as far as players in a trade that would get them a high first round pick this year.

I don't think Chicago wants to trade Butler. They will if they get a huge offer.
By asking for Wiggins, Chicago is telling Minnesota no thanks to a potential trade offer, unless it involves Wiggins.
Chicago should and will rebuild around Butler unless a huge offer comes their way.

You'd definitely take the Celtics situation over the Bulls

But you'd take the Timberwolves situation moving forward over the Celtics, that is for sure.

I like the Timberwolves young nucleus, Towns, Wiggins, Levine, Dieng all good young pieces.

who says you can't build through the draft?

cowens/oldschool wrote:I like the Timberwolves young nucleus, Towns, Wiggins, Levine, Dieng all good young pieces.

Yeah, plus Rubio is only 26-27 and they have the #5 pick in the draft

With the 5th pick in the Draft MN could draft the athletic PF Chris.

dboss

The point is that you can start with the draft, then add pieces.
GS added Bogut and Iguodala to go along with Curry, Thompson and Green.

OKC has mostly done it through the draft, which is rare.

Boston, Minnesota, LA etc are all starting with the draft and then will attempt to add a star or stars.
I even think a star will be willing to go to Philly if their young talent really develops.
True success is probably a number of years away, but many are probably envious of Philly's roster.

Friedell: "What about Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, this year's No. 3 pick, and next year's Brooklyn pick (Boston holds the right to swap spots with the Nets)? "

For Butler?

This is what happens when you smoke crack or meth.

Fortunately Danny does not.

worcester wrote:Friedell: "What about Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, this year's No. 3 pick, and next year's Brooklyn pick (Boston holds the right to swap spots with the Nets)? "

For Butler?

This is what happens when you smoke crack or meth.

Fortunately Danny does not.

W

I want to see the Celtics first upgrade positions of need.

Then move forward with other upgrades where needed. I want to see a long term competitive team. I agree with TJ about building through the draft. It does not guarantee a championship but neither does adding top veteran players. The problem is that most fans do not have the mindset to stay the course and neither do the decision makers. Remember Joe Johnson and Billups.

Thank goddess coach Steven's knows how to coach a young team. I think he would prefer to develop home grown talent.

Dboss

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:who says you can't build through the draft?

Cowens,

Until they actually do something, I do.

You have to rebuild, which means drafting and developing, but when was the last team a young team won the Championship, or even competed for one?  The closest one I can think of is GSW, and even then, Barnes is 24 and Thompson is 26 and everybody else is 28 and up.  The Spurs were old, the Heat weren't young neither.  We weren't young.  Nowitzki wasn't young.  The final rounds of the playoffs, EC/WC and Championship rounds, are for the "been there, done thats".

People use to say the exact same thing about the Atlanta Hawks in 2008.  "Oooh.  Look at how good and young their nucleus is".  Then Childress left, Horford got injured, Smith and Bibby got traded

bob

The rotation of the 2015 NBA Champs played the majority of the 2014-15 season at these ages:

Curry - 26
Thompson - 24
Barnes - 22
Green - 24
Bogut - 30

Iguodala - 31
Lee - 32
Livingston - 29
Ezeli - 25
Speights - 27

Starters averaged just over 25 years of age. Reserves 29 years of age. 

That doesn't "come close" to being a young finals team, it is 100% a young NBA Champion.

I see the point in that most NBA champs have at least one of their 3-4 best players age 30 or above. Iguodala was the Finals MVP at age 31 on that young Warriors team.

The 2008 Celtics, 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs were particularly old teams. But they also had 22 year olds like Rondo and Kawhi playing huge roles and Tyson Chandler was a BEAST on those Mavs at age 28. 

The 5 all-stars not superstar 2004 Pistons were all between 23-29. 

Wade was 24 when winning alongside Shaq in '06 and Kobe 22-24 during the LA 3-peat. 

Jordan turned 30 four months before securing his 3rd title in 1993, so Pippen, Grant and BJ Armstrong were obviously younger. 

Magic played center for an injured Kareem at age 21 in 1980. 

Bird, Parish and McHale were 25, 27 and 23 in 1981. 

Clearly a mix of youth and experience is ideal in title contending teams.

Ram wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:who says you can't build through the draft?

Cowens,

Until they actually do something, I do.

You have to rebuild, which means drafting and developing, but when was the last team a young team won the Championship, or even competed for one?  The closest one I can think of is GSW, and even then, Barnes is 24 and Thompson is 26 and everybody else is 28 and up.  The Spurs were old, the Heat weren't young neither.  We weren't young.  Nowitzki wasn't young.  The final rounds of the playoffs, EC/WC and Championship rounds, are for the "been there, done thats".

People use to say the exact same thing about the Atlanta Hawks in 2008.  "Oooh.  Look at how good and young their nucleus is".  Then Childress left, Horford got injured, Smith and Bibby got traded

bob

The rotation of the 2015 NBA Champs played the majority of the 2014-15 season at these ages:

Curry - 26
Thompson - 24
Barnes - 22
Green - 24
Bogut - 30

Iguodala - 31
Lee - 32
Livingston - 29
Ezeli - 25
Speights - 27

Starters averaged just over 25 years of age. Reserves 29 years of age. 

That doesn't "come close" to being a young finals team, it is 100% a young NBA Champion.

Ram,

Yes that is a young group, and I think it also shows how a team can build through the draft.  Certainly there is no pure way to build; even on this roster there are significant players that were acquired rather than drafted. Still, I think the heart of the Warriors' young team came through the draft, and I don't think it's off base to say the team was built primarily through the draft. Curry, Thompson, Green, Barnes, Ezeli, McAdoo; all came in by the draft.  Of the other players brought in, none were what you would label as pricey top line free agents, but rather mostly proven role players.  You need some experience in the mix, yes, but the Warriors have shown that a fairly young lineup can be championship calibre.

I think this is a very good model for a team like the Celtics to follow.  Draft position plays a role, but smart scouting and drafting are more critical.

Regards