Celtics To ‘Go Hard After’ Gordon Hayward In Free Agency

well, there IS that cap issue that was discussed earlier.

We will continue to read about Hayward going to Boston. There are pros and cons to consider.

Hayward is not a superstar but he has all the offensive tools that would fit in perfectly with Boston. He shoots the ball well from behind the arc, at the line and on 2 pt attempts. He has a solid handle. He can rebound. And he is only 26 and just entering his prime. The Celtics need to add another consistent wing scorer and hayward would certainly fit the bill. These are the positive things he would bring to the table

The cons are also there. He is a SF and the Celtics already have Crowder and backup Jalen Brown at the SF. Hayward is not a lock down defender. Crowder can swing to the PF spot but Hayward is best suited at the SF and may not be quick enough to play SG. Crowder is a tough physical defender and Jalen is also proving that he can become a factor on the defensive end. Hayward would be looking for a max level contract. The Celtics have cap friendly numbers in place for Crowder and Jalen is still under a rookie contract. The Celtics need to focus on adding a 4/5 and not a SF. The Celtics have their own free agents to deal with but there is only so much money to go around. From a pure business sense why spend big money to upgrade a position that does not need to be upgraded.

dboss

Since the Butler and George rumors are shot, we need someone new. Hayward is now up.

Dboss, I just don't get it. We are looking at giving a max contract to someone to play the three when that is a position where we are stacked. Jae and Jalen are truly all we need there. The 4 and 5 spots are crying out for help, and I'd like us to get a point guard who can defend, rebound, distribute, and shoot well. Marcelle Fultz please. I used to like Rozier, but now he is pissing me off. He's like a kid playing CYO ball who has to shoot whenever he gets the ball (1 for 4 last night), and he simply won't pass the ball to Jalen. Marcus is that way too. What did he shoot from the field against the W's? 1-8, and he can't see fit to pass the ball to Jalen? WTF? I love Marcus's game except for his shooting and disrespect for Jalen. We need a smarter point guard (no pun intended), one who will pass where and when appropriate. Rozier is not it. Trade him. Marcus needs a talking to by Brad, a coach who is seriously messing up by not utilizing the #3 pick in the draft properly. Here's a concept Brad - draw up plays for Jalen. Instruct your PG to pass him the ball. Brown was posting up against that 185 pound shrimp McCaw last night, a perfect chances for easy baskets, and he was ignored time after time. Brad should see that crap and call out his guards for ignoring Jalen.

Back to Hayward - is that where we want to go? Really?

NYCelt wrote:Since the Butler and George rumors are shot, we need someone new.  Hayward is now up.

I guarantee you that one of them will be back in the mix.

I think Boston would really like to add an athletic PF that can also play SF.  Or a PF that can also play at the 5  George fits part of that  description.  But Bird will demand a King's ransom which pretty much defeats the entire outcome.

The great thing is that Boston is in the midst of fighting for playoff position.  We still need some stuff but there is no sense of urgency.  At least not yet.

The Celtics have 3 second round picks this year.  I would love to see them turn those picks into a future # 1.

The Celtics will very likely have both Yabu and Zizic on the team next year and they may retain their 1st pick.,  Then you have Nadar waiting for his opportunity.  Zeller is probably gone since his utilization this year has been pretty stagnant.  Mickey is probably gone unless the Celtics think that he can make outside shots.  He is just not big enough be be a factor in the post.  Young will be gone if Boston adds another guard.  Jonas is on then bubble and will be an unrestricted free agent that may be able to get more cash if he leaves.  KO will be retained but I think it will be just a one year deal.  Last but not least the $12 million Amir contract is up but I think he is a real important part of the team chemistry.  $6-8 mill for 3 years with the 3rd year not guaranteed seems in line.

Notice that I have not mentioned any free agents or trades.  That could also happen and is likely to happen.

We have too many assets for the number of roster spots.  Consolidation must happen so it would be wise not to fall in love with any of our players.

dboss

Liking Yabu at the 4 and 5 as a backup.

worcester wrote:Dboss, I just don't get it. We are looking at giving a max contract to someone to play the three when that is a position where we are stacked. Jae and Jalen are truly all we need there. The 4 and 5 spots are crying out for help, and I'd like us to get a point guard who can defend, rebound, distribute, and shoot well. Marcelle Fultz please. I used to like Rozier, but now he is pissing me off. He's like a kid playing CYO ball who has to shoot whenever he gets the ball (1 for 4 last night), and he simply won't pass the ball to Jalen. Marcus is that way too. What did he shoot from the field against the W's? 1-8, and he can't see fit to pass the ball to Jalen? WTF? I love Marcus's game except for his shooting and disrespect for Jalen. We need a smarter point guard (no pun intended), one who will pass where and when appropriate. Rozier is not it. Trade him. Marcus needs a talking to by Brad, a coach who is seriously messing up by not utilizing the #3 pick in the draft properly. Here's a concept Brad - draw up plays for Jalen. Instruct your PG to pass him the ball. Brown was posting up against that 185 pound shrimp McCaw last night, a perfect chances for easy baskets, and he was ignored time after time. Brad should see that crap and call out his guards for ignoring Jalen.

Back to Hayward - is that where we want to go? Really?

Worcester

A lot of the chatter comes from the pundits. They have a rather shallow understanding about the Celtics.  We as fans are looking at all the angles.  

The shot selection at times was poor but I noticed a lot of standing around as the shot clock was ticking away.  Guys were forced to take bad shots.  Rozier certainly has some great athletic skills but he does not seem to have a feel for running the offense.  He did make one good pocket pass last night.  Marcus is Marcus.  He is not going to be a good offensive player.  At this point I have accepted that fact.  On balance the Celtics need to determine if his production on the defensive end and his physical toughness and other intangibles make up for his lack of offensive production.  

One of the issues with the Celtics offense is that it does not take advantage of mismatches.  The ball does move but mostly around the perimeter.  We really do not run a low post offense where a guy like Jalen can attack the rim.  One of the issues is that IT is also a ball dominant PG but he is not a great passer that can effectively feed the post.  When Boston is able to get backdoor cuts or if KO is able to establish a favorable position the opportunity is there for easy baskets.

One of the things that I really like about Fultz is that he has high end passing skills and because he is 6' 4" with a wing span of around 6' 10" he is able to get the ball to open guys.


Sorry..  I'm rambling!

dboss

Keep talking Fultz to me Dboss. It's like music to my ears. We need that perimeter passing AND passing to the low post. Why the hell not? Because our guards are not the best passers. Not that they can't pas. They just don't have the bball IQ of a Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo when it comes to making those passes inside.

Does the thought of tying up two max contracts on Horford and Hayward bother anyone else?

With the chips that he has at his disposal over the next 2 years, I expect Danny to make a blockbuster of a deal - one that will put the Celts on a par with the leagues elite.Haywood is not the answer.

swish

swish wrote:With the chips that he has at his disposal over the next 2 years, I expect Danny to make a blockbuster of a deal - one that will put the Celts on a par with the leagues elite.Haywood is not the answer.

 swish

Danny has been looking for a blockbuster trade for about 2 years now.
Maybe he will find one, maybe he won't.
The big questions marks going forward are the potential contracts of IT and Bradley.
They are running out of time with IT, Bradley, Smart and Olynyk playing on cheap contracts.
I agree that Boston should not pay $25m+ per year to Hayward.
He's a really good player. Not a great player, and one that Boston doesn't really need.
Signing Hayward would take them out of the running for 2018 free agents, if they want to re-sign IT or Bradley.

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:With the chips that he has at his disposal over the next 2 years, I expect Danny to make a blockbuster of a deal - one that will put the Celts on a par with the leagues elite.Haywood is not the answer.

 swish

Danny has been looking for a blockbuster trade for about 2 years now.
Maybe he will find one, maybe he won't.
The big questions marks going forward are the potential contracts of IT and Bradley.
They are running out of time with IT, Bradley, Smart and Olynyk playing on cheap contracts.
I agree that Boston should not pay $25m+ per year to Hayward.
He's a really good player. Not a great player, and one that Boston doesn't really need.
Signing Hayward would take them out of the running for 2018 free agents, if they want to re-sign IT or Bradley.

tj

Always easier said than done - you must always have a willing partner. I've got my fingers crossed.
And how about your Lakers? Their rebuild is really going to start at the bottom - but like the Celts they figure to have the chips needed for a quick return to the top - unless they plan to do the makeover strictly through the draft. What course do you see management taking?

swish

worcester wrote:Keep talking Fultz to me Dboss. It's like music to my ears. We need that perimeter passing AND passing to the low post. Why the hell not? Because our guards are not the best passers. Not that they can't pas. They just don't have the bball IQ of a Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo when it comes to making those passes inside.

Worcester

The key to the Celtics passing the ball is spacing and creating angles for passing into the post. vertical passing angles are difficult. Would like to see more diagonal passes along with constant movement.

dboss

swish wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:With the chips that he has at his disposal over the next 2 years, I expect Danny to make a blockbuster of a deal - one that will put the Celts on a par with the leagues elite.Haywood is not the answer.

 swish

Danny has been looking for a blockbuster trade for about 2 years now.
Maybe he will find one, maybe he won't.
The big questions marks going forward are the potential contracts of IT and Bradley.
They are running out of time with IT, Bradley, Smart and Olynyk playing on cheap contracts.
I agree that Boston should not pay $25m+ per year to Hayward.
He's a really good player. Not a great player, and one that Boston doesn't really need.
Signing Hayward would take them out of the running for 2018 free agents, if they want to re-sign IT or Bradley.

tj

Always easier said than done - you must always have a willing partner. I've got my fingers crossed.
 And how about your Lakers?  Their rebuild is really going to start at the bottom - but like the Celts they figure to have the chips needed for a quick return to the top - unless they plan to do the makeover strictly through the draft. What course do you see management taking?

swish

As for the Lakers, keeping their pick this year is extremely important to them.

I'm definitely concerned about the Lakers.
The contracts given to Deng and Mozgov look like disasters.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers waived one of them and ate the remaining $35m or so on their contract over 5 years, in order to free up money for Cousins or Paul George in 2018.
My biggest concern is about D'Angelo Russell. He does not have a strong motor. If his shot is not falling, he's not helping his team.
Russell could be a really good player or a bust.
I'm not to worried about Ingram. Based on his body, he should not be in the NBA right now.
I don't know if he will be a star, but I think he will be at the minimum a solid NBA player.

The last 3 years, there has been an incentive to lose. To keep their draft picks.
After this year, there's no incentive to lose.

If LA keeps their pick, they could possibly draft Fultz or Ball to play PG, then they could move Russell to SG.

The Lakers organization is an embarrassing mess.
I don't blame Jeanie Buss.
She gave Mitch and Jimmy time.
Time was up. Now, Jimmy is going to extreme measures to stay involved and to disrupt Jeanie's plan.

It's been a tough 5 years from the Dwightmare, Nash, Kobe getting old, Jimmy Buss running the team, the embarrassment from free agents basically ignoring the Lakers and the constant losing.

Things are definitely looking up.
Keeping the pick this year will be huge for the Lakers.
I'm hoping for ping pong ball success...

Jeanie maintaining control is the real key to the Lakers' future success.

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:With the chips that he has at his disposal over the next 2 years, I expect Danny to make a blockbuster of a deal - one that will put the Celts on a par with the leagues elite.Haywood is not the answer.

 swish

Danny has been looking for a blockbuster trade for about 2 years now.
Maybe he will find one, maybe he won't.
The big questions marks going forward are the potential contracts of IT and Bradley.
They are running out of time with IT, Bradley, Smart and Olynyk playing on cheap contracts.
I agree that Boston should not pay $25m+ per year to Hayward.
He's a really good player. Not a great player, and one that Boston doesn't really need.
Signing Hayward would take them out of the running for 2018 free agents, if they want to re-sign IT or Bradley.

tj

Always easier said than done - you must always have a willing partner. I've got my fingers crossed.
 And how about your Lakers?  Their rebuild is really going to start at the bottom - but like the Celts they figure to have the chips needed for a quick return to the top - unless they plan to do the makeover strictly through the draft. What course do you see management taking?

swish

As for the Lakers, keeping their pick this year is extremely important to them.

I'm definitely concerned about the Lakers.
The contracts given to Deng and Mozgov look like disasters.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers waived one of them and ate the remaining $35m or so on their contract over 5 years, in order to free up money for Cousins or Paul George in 2018.
My biggest concern is about D'Angelo Russell. He does not have a strong motor. If his shot is not falling, he's not helping his team.
Russell could be a really good player or a bust.
I'm not to worried about Ingram. Based on his body, he should not be in the NBA right now.
I don't know if he will be a star, but I think he will be at the minimum a solid NBA player.

The last 3 years, there has been an incentive to lose. To keep their draft picks.
After this year, there's no incentive to lose.

If LA keeps their pick, they could possibly draft Fultz or Ball to play PG, then they could move Russell to SG.

The Lakers organization is an embarrassing mess.
I don't blame Jeanie Buss.
She gave Mitch and Jimmy time.
Time was up. Now, Jimmy is going to extreme measures to stay involved and to disrupt Jeanie's plan.

It's been a tough 5 years from the Dwightmare, Nash, Kobe getting old, Jimmy Buss running the team, the embarrassment from free agents basically ignoring the Lakers and the constant losing.

Things are definitely looking up.
Keeping the pick this year will be huge for the Lakers.
I'm hoping for ping pong ball success...

tj

Thanks for for your thoughts on the Lakers future. Perhaps your Lakers and My Celtics will both rise to the top in the very near future and we can both carry on the rivalry via the keyboard.

swish

I like Hayward, but probably he is not a good fit on the Cs for two big reasons. First, he will be too expensive for what he brings to the table, and second the Cs will have to move Crowder out.

Hayward is a better scorer than Crowder, but I am not sure that he is a better player for our team on our roster. Crowder is a great 'glue' player and has done much to re-shape the culture of our team, he is a better rebounder and a far better defender.

I do not think LA is at ground zero.

They have some significant young talent, a decent coach and Jeannie at the helm along with Magic.

They have mostly focused on offensive minded players like Russell and Ingram.  They have a few vets Deng and Corey Brewer but what they lack most are guys that can play both ends of the court.  There are no shut down defenders on the team.  If they remain as the 2nd worst team they get to keep the pick otherwise Philly gets it.  They also have a late first rounder and early second round pick in the draft.

Both Deng and Mozgov and Clarkston are signed long term ($44 mill per year for the 3 of them)

Magic has his work cut out as they really need a better blend of players.  I think they are 3-5 years away from making any noise.

In that regards I guess they are at the bottom.  I convinced myself.

dboss

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:With the chips that he has at his disposal over the next 2 years, I expect Danny to make a blockbuster of a deal - one that will put the Celts on a par with the leagues elite.Haywood is not the answer.

 swish

Danny has been looking for a blockbuster trade for about 2 years now.
Maybe he will find one, maybe he won't.
The big questions marks going forward are the potential contracts of IT and Bradley.
They are running out of time with IT, Bradley, Smart and Olynyk playing on cheap contracts.
I agree that Boston should not pay $25m+ per year to Hayward.
He's a really good player. Not a great player, and one that Boston doesn't really need.
Signing Hayward would take them out of the running for 2018 free agents, if they want to re-sign IT or Bradley.

tj

Always easier said than done - you must always have a willing partner. I've got my fingers crossed.
 And how about your Lakers?  Their rebuild is really going to start at the bottom - but like the Celts they figure to have the chips needed for a quick return to the top - unless they plan to do the makeover strictly through the draft. What course do you see management taking?

swish

As for the Lakers, keeping their pick this year is extremely important to them.

I'm definitely concerned about the Lakers.
The contracts given to Deng and Mozgov look like disasters.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers waived one of them and ate the remaining $35m or so on their contract over 5 years, in order to free up money for Cousins or Paul George in 2018.
My biggest concern is about D'Angelo Russell. He does not have a strong motor. If his shot is not falling, he's not helping his team.
Russell could be a really good player or a bust.
I'm not to worried about Ingram. Based on his body, he should not be in the NBA right now.
I don't know if he will be a star, but I think he will be at the minimum a solid NBA player.

The last 3 years, there has been an incentive to lose. To keep their draft picks.
After this year, there's no incentive to lose.

If LA keeps their pick, they could possibly draft Fultz or Ball to play PG, then they could move Russell to SG.

The Lakers organization is an embarrassing mess.
I don't blame Jeanie Buss.
She gave Mitch and Jimmy time.
Time was up. Now, Jimmy is going to extreme measures to stay involved and to disrupt Jeanie's plan.

It's been a tough 5 years from the Dwightmare, Nash, Kobe getting old, Jimmy Buss running the team, the embarrassment from free agents basically ignoring the Lakers and the constant losing.

Things are definitely looking up.
Keeping the pick this year will be huge for the Lakers.
I'm hoping for ping pong ball success...

"I'm hoping for ping pong ball success..."


Welcome to the club.

dboss wrote:I do not think LA is at ground zero.

They have some significant young talent, a decent coach and Jeannie at the helm along with Magic.

They have mostly focused on offensive minded players like Russell and Ingram.  They have a few vets Deng and Corey Brewer but what they lack most are guys that can play both ends of the court.  There are no shut down defenders on the team.  If they remain as the 2nd worst team they get to keep the pick otherwise Philly gets it.  They also have a late first rounder and early second round pick in the draft.

Both Deng and Mozgov and Clarkston are signed long term ($44 mill per year for the 3 of them)

Magic has his work cut out as they really need a better blend of players.  I think they are 3-5 years away from making any noise.

In that regards I guess they are at the bottom.  I convinced myself.

dboss

To clarify, if the Lakers keep their 1st round pick this year, their 2017 and 2018 2nd round picks go to Orlando and LA will keep their 2019 1st round pick.

Paul George has pretty much said he wants to sign with the Lakers year after next, right?

of course with all the money they threw at Mozgov and Deng, maybe they won't have the money for a REAL Free agent....ouch!!!

and also I thought last year the betting money was that DeRozen was a lock to sign with the Lakers also...so I guess you never know who is blowing smoke...or maybe the Lakers just wanted Mozgov THAT much....ouch again.

kdp59 wrote:Paul George has pretty much said he wants to sign with the Lakers year after next, right?

of course with all the money they threw at Mozgov and Deng, maybe they won't have the money for a REAL Free agent....ouch!!!

and also I thought last year the betting money was that DeRozen was a lock to sign with the Lakers also...so I guess you never know who is blowing smoke...or maybe the Lakers just wanted Mozgov THAT much....ouch again.

The Lakers will have more than enough cap space to be in the hunt for George should they choose to - and also assuming that George is still on the market in 18-19.


swish

kdp59 wrote:Paul George has pretty much said he wants to sign with the Lakers year after next, right?

of course with all the money they threw at Mozgov and Deng, maybe they won't have the money for a REAL Free agent....ouch!!!

and also I thought last year the betting money was that DeRozen was a lock to sign with the Lakers also...so I guess you never know who is blowing smoke...or maybe the Lakers just wanted Mozgov THAT much....ouch again.

Can George get more money by resigning with Indiana?

In the case for the Lakers they already have $44 million committed to 3 players and those are bad contracts. Add a minimum of $25 million for George and then they are up to $69 mill for 4 players. It is gong take them several years just to get out from under the bad contracts and that will stymie their rebuild.

Wish I could say that I feel sorry for them but i don't

dboss

The way Brown is progressing the Celtics may not need Hayward who would be coming to the Celtics at an expensive price.

Best advice..........wait it out unless Hayward comes at a reasonable price.

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