Rookie of the year - whats your call.

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Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by swish on Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:01 am

Should be a tight race between Tatum and Simmons. Some stats below on a handful of contenders.

http://bkref.com/tiny/tyFdq

Too close to call - I'll make it a tie - Tatum and Simmons. Should be some great match-ups in the future.

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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by kdp59 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:22 am

the press wants Simmons, so he'll get it.

I've always wondered why players who are NOT rookies are eligible for the award myself.
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:39 am

[quote="kdp59"]the press wants Simmons, so he'll get it.

I've always wondered why players who are NOT rookies are eligible for the award myself. [/quote]

+1
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by wideclyde on Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:27 am

No question that Simmons caught a big break by being injured last season in his quest to be the NBA ROY (listed by mrkleen on another thread) this season, but each league has to have a constant ruling for what is actually a "rookie" season.

The NBA goes by when a guy plays his first game it is his rookie season. I think that both football and hockey do this as well. Baseball has a limited number of either games, at bats or innings pitched as part of what determines a rookie season, but also allowed Ichiro to be a "rookie" after playing years and years in Japan's major league.

I have no problem with the NBA still calling this year as Simmons' rookie year as at least they have been doing the same thing the same way for years and years.

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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by kdp59 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:01 am

yeah, but heck they say Theis is a rookie...come on...he's what a 6 year vet of Pro ball?
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by bobc33 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:32 am

Can you name a player in the four major pro sports who won the MVP of the playoffs, and the following season was named Rookie of the Year?
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by Shamrock1000 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:39 am

Love JT, but I don't see how it goes to anyone other than Simmons. He is averaging nearly a triple double, and along with Embiid, has turned around a previously hopeless franchise. That being said, I don't think that Simmons will ever develop as a shooter, and that the inability to shoot will ultimately limit him. Another consequence of Simmons shooting woes is that he becomes much less useful without the ball in his hands, which limits the kind of offense you can run (and may also limit Fultz's impact, who can play the 2, but is really a 1).

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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by bobheckler on Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:17 pm

kdp59 wrote:yeah, but heck they say Theis is a rookie...come on...he's what a 6 year vet of Pro ball?


kdp,

But Theis is an NBA rookie. Simmons was in the NBA last year. He learned the plays, he attended if not participated in team practices and no doubt sat in team film sessions. Back when Grant Hill played and he had that years in the middle of his career where he was injured and didn't play nobody said he wasn't an NBA player that year.

This is from his Wikipedia page:
Retirement (2013)
On June 1, 2013, Hill announced his retirement from professional basketball after 19 seasons in the NBA.[16] Hill would later join NBA TV to become an analyst.

Grant Hill only played in 18 seasons and he sat out one with an injury. So, if Grant Hill's NBA career is described as "19 seasons" even though he only played in 18 of them, then why doesn't Ben Simmons' first year that he was a signed NBA player count?


bob



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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:45 pm

My opinion is: as far as I am concerned, Simmons is NOT a rookie. He traveled with his team last year, worked out with them, got paid even though he had an injury, learned what it meant to be in the NBA. He was a seasoned rookie last year, he learned the ropes and grew up.

I am not of the belief that JT is the rookie of the year. But, he was thrown into the limelight alot sooner than he or the Celtics ever expected and for the most part, except for hitting the wall in January/early February, has played extremely well. In the long run, he will be the better player I believe, he is just so talented and we only touched the tip of the iceberg here But..........

The kid from Utah, on the other had, as played hard all year. As far as I am concerned, is the rookie of the year.
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by jrleftfoot on Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:05 pm

Simmons is a rookie because the rules say he is. Same as ICHIRO was. Tatum will survive without the award. The real question is who will have the better career. Could be a Larry and Magic sort of rivalry.
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by swish on Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:31 pm

To keep every one happy it might be necessary to have multiple rookies of the year - One for rookies of different ages and one for rookies that sit out their first year in the NBA for whatever reason (sort of a college red shirt situation). Until the rules are changed - Simmons is a rookie.

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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by swish on Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:10 pm

Unlike Tatum, Simmons is not blessed with an outside shooting game - but he sure does compensate with excellent ball handling skills and a very effective low post game - especially for a 6'10" 230 lb point guard. A guard that takes 79% of his shots from within 10' while shooting a great 60.4 % - and still finds time to total 8.5 rebounds and 8.5 assist per 36 minutes. I would not worry about his lack of a 3 point shot. As long as he is able to take the smallish
guards that guard him out on the perimeter down low - he figures to have a ball.
Note: At the rim he is 306 for 412 = 74.3 %

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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by k_j_88 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:49 pm

My vote is for Donovan Mitchell. This kid is a beast already. And he's much more dynamic of a player than Simmons is.


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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by dboss on Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:58 pm

I am going with Tatum but I doubt he will win.

Tatum has the most complete game of all of the rookies.

Mitchell has a higher scoring average but he also puts up over 17 FG per game.  He is shooting only .337 from deep.  

Tatum now looks like a 4 position player as he has played 1-4.  Tatum is an excellent shooter, rebounder and ball handler and his defense has really started to shine.
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by Sandpd on Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:53 am

jrleftfoot wrote:Simmons is a rookie because the rules say he is. Same as ICHIRO was. Tatum will survive without the award. The real question is who will have the better career. Could be a Larry and Magic sort of rivalry.

As you say, those are the rules until they change them. Both have long and promising careers ahead of them. At this point in time, I think that Simmons is a better facilitator who makes his teammates better. Tatum reminds me of Keith "Silk" Wilkes a bit, with his smooth approach to the rim. BTW, did you see the catch Ichiro made the other day to steal away a home run? It was vintage.
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by kdp59 on Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:16 am

I've noticed the Jamal WIlkes comparison with Tatum as well. NOT the way he shots the ball, but his smooth/non hurried game.

as fro being a rookie or not...the NBA should just say anyone who plays pro ball anywhere else OR is under an NBA contract in any previous year (but did not play) is a FIRST YEAR NBA player....but not a rookie.

easy fix and more true to what reality is.
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by jrleftfoot on Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:07 am

Sandpd wrote:
jrleftfoot wrote:Simmons is a rookie because the rules say he is. Same as ICHIRO was. Tatum will survive without the award. The real question is who will have the better career. Could be a Larry and Magic sort of rivalry.

As you say, those are the rules until they change them. Both have long and promising careers ahead of them. At this point in time, I think that Simmons is a better facilitator who makes his teammates better. Tatum reminds me of Keith "Silk" Wilkes a bit, with his smooth approach to the rim. BTW, did you see the catch Ichiro made the other day to steal away a home run? It was vintage.
Did indeed .Ichiro is a wonder.
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Re: Rookie of the year - whats your call.

Post by dboss on Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:02 am

There is no reason to change the rules.

You cannot have a rookie playing year if you did not play in the NBA.  Simmons did not play and neither did Theis.
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