Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:27 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
k_j_88 wrote:Kleen,

Actually I was responding to how it was posted. There wasn't any context for it to be taken out of.

I assume people here are watching the games. And if you're paying attention to what happens in-game, it's not just simply stats. It's also the flow of the game that needs to be considered. That's where these observations, which are valid, originate from.

Kj

I watch every game, multiple times since my 4 year old wants to watch them over and over.  What I see is Jaylen Brown disappearing as games go on.  He drifts off to the corner to wait for a 3 point FG attempt, he defers to his teammates more, is less likely to take his man 1-on-1 etc.  I dont see this as a "strategy or a failing" of Coach Stevens, I see it as a 21 year old that does not take charge and demand the ball, so the ball goes elsewhere.


Clearly Jaylen is a better player than Terry Rozier, but Rozier is much more assertive on big possessions.  He wants to ball.  I dont see the same fire with Jaylen on a consistent basis, which is why I have to fall back on the stats that say at this point, Brown is a 21 year old that is what he is.   You can expect 14 points off 11 shots and anything outside of that, is a aberration.  

He will get better and as he becomes more aggressive for longer periods of time, he will get more shots and
more points and everyone will miraculously start to praise Coach for his great game planning.

I agree that at times Jaylen has not been aggressive enough which could be typical for a player of his age and experience, but we all agree he has great talent and can score in so many ways and his outside shot has exceeded all our expectations, 47% from 3 since ASB is shockingly good. So if you have such a talented young 2 way stud that always covers the best wing defensively, why not figure out a way to make him a better match up nightmare on offense and get him better and more looks? It’s not like he’s Marvin Williams, the kid is an athletic beast.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by dboss on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:33 pm

Great scorers come in all shapes and sizes yet there are some common threads that bind them together.

Usually paired in the pick and role.  Able to pick up fouls and make a high percentage from the line.  Some are great shooters from distance and some can get to the rim off the dribble.  The best of the best can score on all three levels.

Big time scorers need touches.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:34 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
worcester wrote:Mrkleen, You have either questioned my intellect or my honor or both. Fortunately I have facts to back up my assertions, but first let's address the straw men issues that you have posed. Foremost, the issue is not with Jaylen's minutes in the Washington game! That is  straw man.  It's when they came, and there were very few in the 2nd quarter after he had been spectacularly hot. When he did get in he had but one shot attempt in the 2nd quarter and only 2 in the 3rd. Depriving a hot player the ball and having him sit on the bench for extended periods is a good way to chill a hot hand.

Another way is simply not to pass him the ball. For a coach to allow his offense to keep the ball away from the team's currently best offensive player is poor coaching. Misguided. Inefficient. NOT SMART. There, I've said it. Wonder boy coach Brad is at times not smart when making use of Jaylen's talents. Many times Jaylen has been hot in the first Q, and then does not get enough touches thereafter, because plays are then designed for others, not him. He does not get enough shot opportunities, plain and simple. That is not an accident. That is by
design. Brad's design.



Consider this. Since the All Star Break Jaylen leads the league, the entire NBA in scoring efficiency per touches. Better than Durant, Klay Thompson, and Steph. Jaylen shot 47.4% from three and 79.4% from the free throw line since the ASB. And with Marcus Smart and Kyrie out of the lineup, Brad STILL reduced Jaylen's touches, despite offensive efficiency that is statistically on a par with Bird and Jordan at their finest.
Post ASB touches per game:
Rozier 77.7
Al 57.4

Morris 48.9
Tatum 45.5
Monroe 43.5
Brown 37.2.

Wrap your mind around that.



Yet Jaylen still led the team in scoring since the ASB. Someone who is eighth on the Celts in touches overall this year and sixth since the departure of Kyrie and Smart.

Stop, please, anyone and everyone, who thinks Jaylen is being shown the respect he deserves as an offensive player. Even Max concurred with this opinion during the Wizards broadcast.



The only reasonable explanation I can conjure is that Brad must have caught Jaylen sleeping with Brad's wife. Otherwise, this makes no sense to me.

Worcester - lets stop with the personal attack bullshit.  No one is questioning your honor, no one is questioning your intellect.  I like you, I have known you for years.  I agree with a great deal you say out here, on this subject I disagree with your assessment  - period.  Its nothing personal.


What Jaylen did in the Washington game is what he in essence does in EVERY GAME.  His stats, touches, and shooting percentage over the course of the entire season support his performance in the Wizards game.  He is a young player and suffers from up and down performance.  Something his coaching staff knows a lot better that any of us.  This is not some grand conspiracy - Jaylen Brown is inconsistent.

Scoring efficiency per touch is as flawed a stat as Per 36, which has long been debated here as a poor indicator
of much of anything.  

Jaylen Brown averages 11 FGA per game
The league leaders in scoring are taking nearly TWICE AS MANY shots per game
Westbrook 21
Harden 20
Booker, James, Davis, Lillard average 19+



Are you suggesting that if Jaylen Brown got twice as many shots as he gets now, he would be as efficient as the best players in the league?  He certainly would not be, because as Bob stated very simply.  He isnt a great player yet.  He is young and his performances are up and down.  

This is not some grand conspiracy - Jaylen Brown is inconsistent.  









During that game against Washington it was clearly obvious that Jaylen just didnt disappear. He took him out when he was scorching hot and never went back to him. Brad has used Jason at times in the same manner.
It was so obvious to me. I could’ve been listening on the radio and still would have picked up on how Jalen was/was not being utilized!


+2
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:39 pm

dboss wrote:Great scorers come in all shapes and sizes yet there are some common threads that bind them together.

Usually paired in the pick and role.  Able to pick up fouls and make a high percentage from the line.  Some are great shooters from distance and some can get to the rim off the dribble.  The best of the best can score on all three levels.

Big time scorers need touches.

+1

and he can post, fly down the floor and dunk on anybody.

Hope he can also work on a young Bernard King type of post game and handle handle handle....this kid will be unstoppable.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:54 pm

worcester wrote:"Brad's a good coach, who may not find that winning each game, especially at the end of the season, is the most important goal. The playoffs are the real season, so let's go kick some @ss. Hawk"

Hawk, that is probably a wise appraisal of this situation which I hope underlies Brad's thinking in his use of Jaylen since the ASB. I am sorry for sounding especially strident and disrespectful of the opinions of mrkleen on the Jaylen issue. None of us really knows Brad's inside game planning. If Jaylen harbors no resentment and is happy with his role, that is all that matters. I hope that is the case. If not, I hope he has an open channel of communication with Brad  to clear things up before they fester. I see Jaylen as being a preeminent player in the league for years to come and don't want coaching conflicts to come in the way of that.

Speaking of preeminent, here are some stats comparing Paul Pierce and Jaylen:

By the end of Paul's rookie season he was 21.5 years old with these stats:
His FG% was 43.9%
3P% - 41.2%


FT% - 71.3
AST/TO - 2.4/2.4
PPG - 16.5

From the ASB to the end of Jaylen's second season he was 21.5 years old with these stats:
His FG% was 49.2%

3P% - 47.4%

FT% - 79.4
AST/TO - 1.8/1.9
PPG - 16.2

If you lopped of the first 20 games of Paul's rookie season their stats would be pretty darn similar.



What I always loved about Pierce was his balls, toughness and ability in the clutch. Like Bird, never the most
talented player, he still had that special HoF quality to take over a game against anybody....imagine how much greater Pierce would have been if he had the talent/freak athleticism of Jaylen? I would hope this summer Pierce could come back and be a special tutor to the 2 J’s and get these kids and Hayward and Morris even better.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by dboss on Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:53 pm

All of our young guys are inconsistent at times.  As a matter of fact so are our the veterans.  Overall the team was very consistent this season by winning 55 games.  Now on to Jaylen.

Jaylen is playing better than anyone else right now and has been flat out balling since the asg.  Even the scary tumbel on a two handed, split the defense dunk while running on the fast break could not slow him down.

Since then he has posted a career high in points.  Then he puts up a ridiculous 21 points in a quarter.

Brad knows his particular set of skills will be relied upon to drive this team forward at both ends of the court.   Jaylen spoke to this development in his last post game interview.  He said they expect him to take on a bigger role with more responsibility.

Brad will be playing Jaylen big minutes in the playoffs.  I want to know if he gets more looks up top in the pick and role with Al.

This first series may be the biggest coaching challenge for Brad to date.  He has coached the team up.  But he has never went into a 1st round series with this many significant injuries.  

He accepts this challenge.  He wants it.  So to be crystal clear Brad is a consistently excellent coach that may be consistently criticizied when fans disagree with a coaching decision.  I know one thing for certain.  I have seen threads on this board over the years about a variety of topics about the way the team is playing.  I have seen many many conclusions that have manifested themselves on this forum that were implementations by the Celtics.  

We know this game and we know it well. 

pirat
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by swish on Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:07 am

[quote="cowens/oldschool"]
mulcogiseng wrote: For me, the problem started when he played Jaylen the entire first quarter. It threw the whole substitution pattern out the window.  If he had taken Brown out around the 8 minute mark it would have made a whole lot more sense to me.

This isn't an isolated situation. Brad mishandles the bench on a regular basis. BRAD IS NOT ABOVE CRITICISM!  He has to take his lumps just like everyone else even if he is the second best coach in the NBA and perhaps the best after a time out.

Tatum needs to be handled better too, IMO. Brad's calling card states that he coaches best when he puts the players in position to play to their strengths. He is not really doing that for the 2Js.

I think that his whole ball movement oriented offense needs major tweaking. When the ball stops moving, the offense breaks down. We've all seen it, we've all commented on it. Why does it happen and happen so frequently? Because Brad isn't all THAT, not yet, anyway. One of the problems is how the Celtics get into their offense. We have a point guard problem and we have had one since Rondo was sent packing.



Kyrie, like IT before him, is ball dominant, because he can do so much on his own. But that doesn't really help the other guys out, does it?

TRo is a point guard but he is a find my shot first kind of player. That style of play has its place, esp when the offense is sputtering. TRo can get things moving. He can also miss several shots in a row and turn the ball over bringing the O to a halt.


Smart, as I've said many times before is a combo guard and not a point guard. His ball handling and play making has improved but he can't shoot. He is a defensive specialist and is only as successful as he is because of the tremendous effort he brings that masks his deficiencies as an all around player.  It hasn't been uncommon this season for TRo and Marcus to miss shot after shot and have several turn overs during a span of 5-8 minutes that brings all good things to a screeching halt.


Somehow our 4th point guard is our purest pg in terms of how he plays and makes his team mates better. Shane was a great pick up. One long standing problem with our point guard play is that they are all too short for the modern NBA.

The Celtics have done a tremendous job overcoming injury after injury after injury after...But players could have been used better from the start of the season. I'm not complaining, I'm just being a little critical in the hopes that what I see as deficiencies can be corrected for the future. One never knows what one really has
until the wheels start coming off and adversity becomes what must be dealt with. The Celtics have done an excellent job of dealing with adversity. But two weeks ago we still could have ended up with 60 wins and possible the #1 seed.

This team is so close to championship level that only multiple injuries to key players could have derailed this year's bid. AND IT IS STILL POSSIBLE THAT THIS TEAM WILL GO TO THE ECF'S AND PLAY FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP THIS SEASON. That is amazing.


But Brad needs to substitute better and he has to turn the green light off of unlimited 3 point shooting by those who can't hit on a consistent basis. Brad can and will be a much better coach in the future. Afterall, he ain't half bad now.

This has been the kind of year characterized by players and fans bleeding green since the five minute mark of the season. It's been the kind of season where I am proud to be a Celtics fan and wear the green on more than St Paddy's Day. But the best part is that today marks the end of the regular season.


It's Playoff Time, BABY!

#17goingon18

Your statement below
Good post I understand Oubre and Beal we’re covering Jaylen tight, so what? Brad should have had Jaylen post either one of them on the block and play bullyball. This is something Brad has got to do more as Jaylen can thrive ala Dominique/Bernard King in that style of play....Jaylen can be a match up nightmare down low.

Maybe in the future cowens - but not this pass year. Of the 42 players from 6'3' to 6'8" that played forward, forward and shooting guard or shooting guard and had at least 10 field goal attempts, Bazemore, Tatum and Brown had the worst shooting percentages in the 3' to 10' range. Those in the 6'3"thru 6'5" range averaged .398 while those from 6'6" thru 6'8" averaged.410. The average for Brown was .321,,, Bazemore .266,,, Tatum .258. In the Wizzard game it looks like Brad might have taken your advice - only to see Brown go 0 for 5 in the 3 to 10 foot range.
Note: Beal averaged .394 and Oubre .328

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by Ktronic1 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:45 am

mrkleen09 wrote:So now we are onto something.  

Its not just Jaylen, is an an overall failing of Brad Stevens. The head coach of the 4th best team in the NBA doesnt understand how to ride the hot hand or adapt his offense to find the best option.

So what about Terry Rozier - a guy who has LESS plays run for him than Jaylen Brown and plays less minutes per game.

In Brad Stevens regressive system, how is it that Terry gets up more shots per 36, more shots per 100 possessions, and more actual shots in the 4th quarter than Jaylen?

No one is running plays for Terry, Rozier gets his because he goes and GETS HIS.  Period.  




He also has been playing point and has the ball in his hands more, like most guards do
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by wideclyde on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:48 am

Playoff time! Forget all of the regular season minutes usage. Brown will play plenty-either until he passes out or has to sit for fouls.

Go Celtics

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:25 pm

swish

Are your 3-10 ft stats post up or all shots from 3-10ft? Obviously there is a difference and my eye test shows me Jaylen can be a very dynamic old school post presence with his back facing the basket.

cow
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:36 pm

I was thinking of starting another thread, but since we’re all discussing Jaylens abilities, even though none of us are on the bench or huddle, was wondering is Jaylen the best wing defender in the league this year and what are your thoughts? With Kawhi being out this whole year and Cavs usually saving Lebron for offensive end by NOT putting him on the best scoring wing and Durant as much as his defense has improved he’s not the most mobile or quickest or tenacious defender on the perimeter....so to my eyes it’s got to be
Jaylen, but I don’t know if he should be all defensive at the 2 or 3?
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:48 pm

cow,
Jaylen's going to be getting votes but this isn't his year for honors like that. It's truly amazing how much better Jaylen is now over where he was this time last year. He was just coming back to form from a very inconsistent first year. He exploded during the playoffs, really upping his game. He has shown similar improvement this season and knows that there are times he can put the team on his back and carry on both ends of the floor. I think one of the problems he faces is that he gets a lot more press about his athleticism going to the hoop and hitting the corner 3 than he gets for his D although I'm sure the players are aware more than fans in other cities. He might make the ASG this next year or at least get more serious consideration, and he may start getting serious votes for end of season honors as well. The thing is, he has never been over hyped the way players like Simmons and Mitchell are. He has earned every plaudit he has received. Tatum is following a similar track. What a nice problem for Danny and Brad to solve.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:56 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:cow,
Jaylen's going to be getting votes but this isn't his year for honors like that. It's truly amazing how much better Jaylen is now over where he was this time last year. He was just coming back to form from a very inconsistent first year. He exploded during the playoffs, really upping his game. He has shown similar improvement this season and knows that there are times he can put the team on his back and carry on both ends of the floor. I think one of the problems he faces is that he gets a lot more press about his athleticism going to the hoop and hitting the corner 3 than he gets for his D although I'm sure the players are aware more than fans in other cities. He might make the ASG this next year or at least get more serious consideration,  and he may start getting serious votes for end of season honors as well. The thing is, he has never been over hyped the way players like Simmons and Mitchell are. He has earned every plaudit he has received. Tatum is following a similar track. What a nice problem for Danny and Brad to solve.

Really? I got to disagree, we have the no 1 defense in the league I believe, at least most of the year. Our perimeter defense is no 1, Jaylen leads the team in challenged 3 point shots, he’s our best perimeter defender, I think he’s earned being all defensive this year. If not who’s a better perimeter or wing defender than him, give me names...???
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:57 pm

Love this thread - too many posts become echo chambers, either with praise or with condemnation. Intelligent discussion with disagreement should always be welcome as long as there is no disrespect, and I have seen no disrespect here.

I see both sides of the argument. Jaylen is beginning to come into his own, and is the leading scorer on the team now that KI is down, so it makes sense that he should get more touches. I also believe that as great a coach as Brad is, fans should be free to question and discuss his decision making on this board. I think that type of analysis is what makes boards like this fun. On the other hand, the system Brad has in place, i.e. the system that won 50 + games two years in a row with completely different personel, is predicated on ball movement, and since Jaylen is not yet Isaiah or Kyrie, I'm not sure it would be a great idea to deviate from the system to get him touches. Also, I am not sure Jaylen has a scorer's mentality at this point. Natural scorers have the vision to see the opportunity to score when it arises and the confidence to go for it. Often this is apparent from their rookie year. Not sure Jaylen has that mentality - at least not yet. Hopefully he will be the breakout player of these playoffs.

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:05 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:Love this thread - too many posts become echo chambers, either with praise or with condemnation. Intelligent discussion with disagreement should always be welcome as long as there is no disrespect, and I have seen no disrespect here.

I see both sides of the argument. Jaylen is beginning to come into his own, and is the leading scorer on the team now that KI is down, so it makes sense that he should get more touches. I also believe that as great a coach as Brad is, fans should be free to question and discuss his decision making on this board. I think that type of analysis is what makes boards like this fun. On the other hand, the system Brad has in place, i.e. the system that won 50 + games two years in a row with completely different personel, is predicated on ball movement, and since Jaylen is not yet Isaiah or Kyrie, I'm not sure it would be a great idea to deviate from the system to get him touches. Also, I am not sure Jaylen has a scorer's mentality at this point. Natural scorers have the vision to see the opportunity to score when it arises and the confidence to go for it. Often this is apparent from their rookie year. Not sure Jaylen has that mentality - at least not yet. Hopefully he will be the breakout player of these playoffs.

I would agree with that, but Kawhi also didn’t have that scorers mentality in his first 3-4 years either, but last season he obviously got to that level. I think Jaylen will get that go to scoring ability faster than Kawhi got there. So what do you think of Jaylens worthiness on defense?
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:12 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:Love this thread - too many posts become echo chambers, either with praise or with condemnation. Intelligent discussion with disagreement should always be welcome as long as there is no disrespect, and I have seen no disrespect here.

I see both sides of the argument. Jaylen is beginning to come into his own, and is the leading scorer on the team now that KI is down, so it makes sense that he should get more touches. I also believe that as great a coach as Brad is, fans should be free to question and discuss his decision making on this board. I think that type of analysis is what makes boards like this fun. On the other hand, the system Brad has in place, i.e. the system that won 50 + games two years in a row with completely different personel, is predicated on ball movement, and since Jaylen is not yet Isaiah or Kyrie, I'm not sure it would be a great idea to deviate from the system to get him touches. Also, I am not sure Jaylen has a scorer's mentality at this point. Natural scorers have the vision to see the opportunity to score when it arises and the confidence to go for it. Often this is apparent from their rookie year. Not sure Jaylen has that mentality - at least not yet. Hopefully he will be the breakout player of these playoffs.

I would agree with that, but Kawhi also didn’t have that scorers mentality in his first 3-4 years either, but last season he obviously got to that level. I think Jaylen will get that go to scoring ability faster than Kawhi got there. So what do you think of Jaylens worthiness on defense?

Kawhi comparison is a great one. I was actually thinking the same thing - Kawhi is someone who may not have been a "natural" scorer (e.g. like Pierce - it was clear he was a scorer immediately), but he developed into a scorer. Also, like Kawhi, Jaylen's greatness will likely reflect a more complete game. As you pointed out, Jaylen is already a top defender. I almost think Jaylen's ceiling could be higher than Kawhi - they both have the phyiscal tools and are hard workers, but it seems like Jaylen might be a little smarter.

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:14 pm

I'll let you know when the votes get counted. lol I'd be very surprised if Jaylen gets as many votes for an all D team as Marcus. This is one of the areas where I'm always happy to be wrong.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:31 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:I'll let you know when the votes get counted. lol   I'd be very surprised if Jaylen gets as many votes for an all D team as Marcus. This is one of the areas where I'm always happy to be wrong.

I love Smarts D and if he didn’t miss so many games I’d want him to get all defensive recognition too.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by worcester on Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:08 pm

Jaylen and Smart are probably the best man on man defenders in the league, but Jaylen has things to learn about team defense. Durant will probably get the DPOY or else Gobert. More flash. the media voters like that.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by swish on Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:42 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:swish

Are your 3-10 ft stats post up or all shots from 3-10ft? Obviously there is a difference and my eye test shows me Jaylen can be a very dynamic old school post presence with his back facing the basket.

cow

 cowens

The charts do not indicate whether it was a post up, drive and shoot, or catch and shoot while facing the basket -  so I'll rely on your your eye ball opinion - all though I much prefer to at least try to back up my own opinions with stats.

 below are the stats used in my summary,,, The top one is for players 6'6" to 6'8" the bottom 6'3" to 6'5"
          http://bkref.com/tiny/GWA3m
http://bkref.com/tiny/kTXsa

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:18 pm

swish wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:swish

Are your 3-10 ft stats post up or all shots from 3-10ft? Obviously there is a difference and my eye test shows me Jaylen can be a very dynamic old school post presence with his back facing the basket.

cow

 cowens

The charts do not indicate whether it was a post up, drive and shoot, or catch and shoot while facing the basket -  so I'll rely on your your eye ball opinion - all though I much prefer to at least try to back up my own opinions with stats.

 below are the stats used in my summary,,, The top one is for players 6'6" to 6'8"   the bottom 6'3" to 6'5"
          http://bkref.com/tiny/GWA3m
         http://bkref.com/tiny/kTXsa

   swish

Appreciate your honesty, if that’s true these 3-10 ft stats have very little to do with back to the basket post up ability and a lot of post up for wings can also be further out than 10 ft.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:24 pm

worcester wrote:Jaylen and Smart are probably the best man on man defenders in the league, but Jaylen has things to learn about team defense. Durant will probably get the DPOY or else Gobert. More flash. the media voters like that.

Durant? while he has more defensive responsibilities this year, I don’t see him able to just clamp down on an all star level wing and chase him around the floor like Jaylen....maybe I’m wrong, no way do I see him as DPoY material.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by worcester on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:34 pm

Cow, I agree, but given what impresses the media Durant or Gobert will probably get it. Meanwhile Baynes, Jaylen, Tatum. and Smart have some of the very best defensive ratings in the NBA. I sure hope we resign Baynes and Smart.
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worcester

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:48 pm

worcester wrote:Cow, I agree, but given what impresses the media Durant or Gobert will probably get it. Meanwhile Baynes, Jaylen, Tatum. and Smart have some of the very best defensive ratings in the NBA. I sure hope we resign Baynes and Smart.

Baynes bulk in the paint/lane has been godsend, he does a lot of dirty work that doesn’t even show up on a stat sheet. If your going to name all those players and I agree they have been huge in why we have one of the leagues top defenses, you also have to mention Horford, who also is a very good all around impact defensive player.
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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

Post by swish on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:56 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
swish wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:swish

Are your 3-10 ft stats post up or all shots from 3-10ft? Obviously there is a difference and my eye test shows me Jaylen can be a very dynamic old school post presence with his back facing the basket.

cow

 cowens

The charts do not indicate whether it was a post up, drive and shoot, or catch and shoot while facing the basket -  so I'll rely on your your eye ball opinion - all though I much prefer to at least try to back up my own opinions with stats.

 below are the stats used in my summary,,, The top one is for players 6'6" to 6'8"   the bottom 6'3" to 6'5"
          http://bkref.com/tiny/GWA3m
         http://bkref.com/tiny/kTXsa

   swish

Appreciate your honesty, if that’s true these 3-10 ft stats have very little to do with back to the basket post up ability and a lot of post up for wings can also be further out than 10 ft.

    cowens

  All my stats tell me is - that when Brown shot from 3-10 ft he was a lousy shooter, when compared to the players that I listed. I would be very comfortable with your opinion if you could provide some sort of proof that you can recall the exact distance of every post up shot that Brown took this year - lets say from 15 feet in.

  swish


Last edited by swish on Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Brad's use of Jaylen confounds me.

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