Would you trade Kyrie Irving for Anthony Davis now or try to unite them this summer?

Would you trade Kyrie Irving for Anthony Davis now or try to unite them this summer?

WEEI John Tomase

The Celtics got an up-close-and-personal look on Monday at Pelicans star Anthony Davis, who posted 27 points and 16 rebounds in Boston’s 124-107 victory. Considering some of Davis’s prior work – he torched the C’s for 45 and 16 last January – they’ll take his pedestrian 8-for-19 performance.

The bigger question is whether Davis may one day call Boston home. NBA insider Chris Sheridan has already noted that the Celtics are on Davis’s short list of potential landing spots, alongside the Lakers, Sixers, and Knicks.

There’s even been speculation about the Pelicans trying to move him this season if they fall out of contention, and at 10-11, they’re currently 11th in the loaded West, trailing the Spurs, Kings, and Mavericks, tied with the Timberwolves, and percentage points ahead of the Rockets.

Those dreaming of a Kyrie Irving-Davis pairing will have to wait until the summer. Because of the Rose Rule, the Celtics cannot acquire two players playing for 30 percent max extensions coming off their rookie contracts. Both Irving and Davis are on such deals, and the only way to sign one is to win an MVP, Defensive Player of the Year Award, or make an All-NBA team. (Others, like NBA capologist Keith Smith, can explain this a lot better than I can).

So there’s no way for the Celtics to acquire Davis this year, in the unlikely event that he’s made available . . . unless they trade Irving to get him.

There’s an argument to be made for a deal. The Celtics like to play small, but that lineup was exposed to the point where head coach Brad Stevens decided to move center Aron Baynes back into the starting lineup.

Backup Terry Rozier may not provide as much as we’d like off the bench, but as a starter, he quarterbacked the team to the conference finals last season. He’d be a ready-made Irving replacement.

There are also long-term injury concerns with Irving, who’s coming off season-ending knee surgery that was itself a result of prior season-ending knee surgery.

That said, I still no and here’s why. The best Celtics team pairs Irving, Davis, and Jayson Tatum. If Jaylen Brown, Al Horford, and picks need to go to put those three together, so be it. But I’ll put the question to you – would you trade Irving right now to acquire Davis, or would you wait until the summer in an attempt to unite them?

112288

IN A HEART BEAT OR A NEW YORK MINUTE!

112288

2 hours ago

Uncle Drew getting no love here?

ha ha

seriously, why would NO do that trade though?

Irving could opt out and leave after this year, while Davis has one more year under contract.

since we're talking fanatasy....I think a more likely proposal would be something like

Davis

for

Irving
Rob Williams
Kings pick 2019
Grizzlies pick 2019

I would not trade Kyrie Irving for Anthony Davis now and neither would NOLA.

The optimum thing to do is to unite them. Pair them together. That is unlikely to happen however.

NOLA is in need of wing depth but thy are not in need of a PG therefore to mention Kyrie in conjunction with a trade for Davis is a mindless notion. NOLA still owes their starting PG Holiday around $80 million after this year so there is no way they would want, need or could afford Irving.

None of our 3 max contract players could be in the mix. Hayward is not, Al is not and Kyrie is not. NOLA would want Tatum and since the dollars do not match you would have to include Smart, Yabu and probably Williams plus 2-3 first rounders.

Davis still has one more full year under contract before he has the option to opt out. There simply is no good reason for them to move Davis unless he wants to be moved. NOLA's challenge is to add more talent around him. If NOLA is not able to do that we may hear some rumblings about him wanting to leave. There has even been talk about bringing Boogie back next year.

Any team out there would love to have a player like Davis but Boston has already made their bed. The chance that they could acquire Davis is slim to none.

We can talk about this all year long or we can focus on the team we have in place.

NOLA and Davis is just not a good fit for both parties.   Davis has offered several teams to include in a trade and Boston is one of them.  Why would Davis give a list unless NO management have discussed this with him.

Celtics have assets to give and is a preferred destination by Davis, that = = = ='s a high probability match and a deal happening.

Danny has been waiting for a true big man center since the combo of Garnett and Perkins left.

If you wait, a team will come in during February and pluck him off the market!

YOU GET HIM HOW, WORRY ABOUT IRVING COME JULY 1st, and besides you can keep Rozier and spend more money on wings during free agency.

112288

Is Perk still available?

Simple answer: Wait until next summer.

Give our current players this season to gel and then we can better understand where our holes are.
Some of our assets will have "ripened" a bit and it will be easier to match AD's contract in a sign & trade.
AD will be on his last contract year before he can opt out. Advantage: Celtics
I would rather keep Kyrie and add to our team. Add all-star and/or all-NBA players, not swap them.
Danny will be dealing more from a position of strength next summer, to deal now smells of desperation.

gyso

worcester wrote:Is Perk still available?

You forgot to use the sarcasm font again.

112288 wrote:NOLA and Davis is just not a good fit for both parties.   Davis has offered several teams to include in a trade and Boston is one of them.  Why would Davis give a list unless NO management have discussed this with him.

Celtics have assets to give and is a preferred destination by Davis, that = = = ='s a high probability match and a deal happening.

Danny has been waiting for a true big man center since the combo of Garnett and Perkins left.

If you wait, a team will come in during February and pluck him off the market!

YOU GET HIM HOW, WORRY ABOUT IRVING COME JULY 1st, and besides you can keep Rozier and spend more money on wings during free agency.

112288

112288

NOLA will not pull the trigger on a trade unless Davis said he wants to leave.  I have not seen anything like that yet.  A team cannot come in an pluck him off the market because he is not on the market.  NOLA should do everything that they can to keep him and unless he wants out now I would not expect a trade before February 2020.  That's right 2020.  NOLA could add a quality free agent over the summer to make the team better.  This ain't no Jimmy Butler thing.  Davis would be an ultimate acquisition for any team.  NOLA will not part with him easily just because Danny comes knocking at the door.  Again if he says he wants out now then he is in play.  he is not in play right now.

Here is an interesting article with unknown sources regarding Anthony Davis.    

https://pelicandebrief.com/2018/11/25/new-orleans-pelicans-anthony-davis-trade-watch/

The New Orleans Pelicans crossroads with Anthony Davis may be approaching sooner than expected. At least one sourced report has Davis possibly demanding a trade this season.

Chris Sheridan of Get More Sports is reporting that Anthony Davis has already decided on the five teams he will consider going forward. Most New Orleans Pelicans fans and Dell Demps expected trade rumors from everyone in Boston and Los Angeles. Some one going on record with ‘sources’ claiming Davis could request a trade in under 100 days is a development a year ahead of schedule.

The Pelicans are of course in the running. Demps, Gentry, and the Benson’s have done everything to try to build a winning culture. The Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks and Philadelphia 76ers are the other lucky teams that have caught the eye of Anthony Davis, reportedly. All but the Knicks are contenders this year.

If it is true Davis would request a trade if he does not see progress in New Orleans, that could actually benefit the Pelicans, only in that more years on the contract means a higher asking price.

If true, though, it is crushing that Davis would want to give up on Jrue Holiday and Co. with years remaining on his contract. Knowing this early in The Pelicans Process that he wants out instead of the largest contract ever would be a crushing blow to all the efforts put in to make the team a destination spot.

But what is Davis looking for, both this season and three seasons from now?

“Winning and being the best player on the floor every night” matter most to Davis, according to the source, who spoke to Get More Sports on the condition of anonymity.

Davis will be the best player on the floor every night no matter where he goes. Davis is still a season or two from his prime, while LeBron James would be a couple of years past his.

Mike Gorman chimes in

https://nesn.com/2018/11/mike-gorman-offers-insight-into-celtics-interest-in-anthony-davis-trade/


Anthony Davis long has been connected to the Boston Celtics for some time, with many believing the New Orleans Pelicans star eventually could be the final piece to Danny Ainge’s rebuild.

But how real is Boston’s supposed infatuation with Davis? If you ask Mike Gorman, it’s very, very real.

The longtime Celtics play-by-play announcer went on 98.5 The Sports Hub’s “Toucher and Rich” on Wednesday and offered a little insight into the dream scenario of Davis suiting up for the C’s.

“Anthony Davis is a once in a generation player,” Gorman said. “Who I know the Celtics feel, I think Danny (Ainge) would probably tell you he’s the best player in the league. So if you’re going after the best player in the league then everybody has got to be eligible to be traded.”

Reports surfaced over the weekend that Davis would be open to spending his future with the Celtics if the Pelicans try to move him. Boston, however, can’t acquire Davis before this offseason unless they trade Kyrie Irving in the deal due to the NBA’s Rose Rule.


But the Celtics, obviously, would like to pair Irving and Davis together, meaning a potential deal will have to wait until the summer.

“Ideally, the Celtics would like to have Kyrie and Anthony Davis playing together,” Gorman said. “But then that probably means you’re giving up a (Jayson Tatum). That’s going to be difficult for the Celtics to come up with a combination that makes everyone happy.”

Despite the hurdles in acquiring the five-time NBA All-Star, Gorman believes there still the potential for Boston to try and swing a deal for Davis.

“But I can tell you, I know the Celtics, and I feel the same way as them, really would like to see Anthony Davis in a Boston uniform.”

While it would be hard for Boston to part with Tatum, Jaylen Brown and some of their draft assets, if there’s a way to acquire Davis then Boston should make it happen.

Pelicans would never do this trade, but if we are ignoring reality, then yes. Yes x infinty raised to the power of infinity. Think about it in terms of probabilties. The probabilty of someone being insanely talented in basketball is insanely low. Both Kyrie and AD are insanely talented. The probability of being really tall is also low. AD us really tall, Kyrie is not. And if you don't think being tall is that important in basketball, consider this; 1 out 6 american males who are 7 feet tall and between the ages of 18 and 40 play in the nba. Players like AD, really all and really gifted, are extremely rare - they call them 'unicorns' for a reason.

But NO would be crazy to do this trade. Our best bet is to try and get him this summer when having one of the two doesn't exclude having the other.

KI is a great offensive player....but he is not a facilitator .........he does not make his teammates better.  

The Celtics would be better off getting Davis who adds 3 more statistical elements  to Irving's 1.  He can rebound the shxt out of the ball (Irving does not), he scores +5 points a game more the Irving, and he blocks shots and is a rim protector (Irving cannot) while throwing in 4+ assists per game to Irving's 5+ assists per game.

By trading Irving now, you command great flexibility and more options than if you wait and combine the two at a later date (that if Ad is still around and not already traded.) You have Rozier who has proven he can run the team, or you can get a cheaper KI in free agency or trade for one during the season, or you can bring KI back next year.   A cheaper point guard allows you flexibility to go out and get some great wings or a power forward in free agency and still keep a decent payroll and not fight the cap in the future.

112288

Bob,

That stat of assists verses minutes is a moving target and yes 36 minutes is not a reliable number so I do not understand why people use it as a benchmark reference.

BTW, KI career average assists are 5+ per game.  

But taking current average of assists per game, they are pretty close to where I can argue that the difference is negligible.  In addition Davis out performs Irving in 3 key areas - blocked shots a game, points scored and rebounds..........you can also factor in opposing teams not attacking the paint because of AD defense and shot blocking.  How many offensive rebounds by AD have indirectly (not getting an assist) resulted in a basket or score because AD kept the ball alive for his team?

Again, I know he is a point guard verses a center so KI cannot compete in certain stat categories equally..........however it shows that the center position (per Red) is the most important position and you build your team from there.  

I wonder the difference in these key stat areas against Horford?  I would be interested in seeing the difference.

112288

112288 wrote:KI is a great offensive player....but he is not a facilitator .........he does not make his teammates better.  

The Celtics would be better off getting Davis who adds 3 more statistical elements  to Irving's 1.  He can rebound the shxt out of the ball (Irving does not), he scores +5 points a game more the Irving, and he blocks shots and is a rim protector (Irving cannot) while throwing in 4+ assists per game to Irving's 5+ assists per game.

By trading Irving now, you command great flexibility and more options than if you wait and combine the two at a later date (that if Ad is still around and not already traded.) You have Rozier who has proven he can run the team, or you can get a cheaper KI in free agency or trade for one during the season, or you can bring KI back next year.   A cheaper point guard allows you flexibility to go out and get some great wings or a power forward in free agency and still keep a decent payroll and not fight the cap in the future.

112288

112288

I have to disagree with you. I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. I really believe Danny would like to pair them together.

You need great talent to win. KI and AD are highend players at their positions.

AS I stated above, you can pair them come the summer by signing KI, but get the best asset now.

This move gives you a wide range of options.

From a pure .....who provides your team more..........Davis by far exceeds KI in that department. KI is a scorer, he is not a good defender, and he does not distribute the ball to teammates on a level that he should be doing. Russell Westbrook distributes the ball career 8.2 assists per game vs. KI - 5.5) and (career average 6.7 rebounds a game vs KI - 3.5) and (career average for points the same as KI). So who is better Westbrook or Irving? If it was Westbrook on the Celtics and you are discussing a trade of him for Davis..........now that is another discussion and a strong argument for not trading him.

Again I argue, does KI make his teammates better......in my opinion NO!

It is the old Russell - Chamberlain argument..........but Russell made his teammates better.

So, waiting for the summer, Davis may be gone by then for at least 2 years if he is traded now to another team.......and who knows if you can get him in 2 years.

By then Al Hordford is over his peak, so then what do the Celtics do............what, you are going to sign Joel Embiit...........not happening! You have to get a center to cancel out Embiit now, as Philly is only going to add more weapons because of Embiit, and in my opinion, Philly is one great player away from passing the Celtics as a team. Embiit is a dominate presence and will be for years ahead. Right now we have no one on the team who can stop Embiit.

You just don't find 7 footers who possess the skills he has on every street corner. And, how many times can you be in a position in the draft to snag one there. However, there are plenty of point guards that you can get, that can get the job done, and win a championship for you.


112288

Just can't see NOLA parting with Davis.

I don't see any way to carry both Davis and Irving together financially, without creating other team contract problems, either.

IN THEORY... I could see replacing Irving and Horford with Davis and Rozier as a gain, as long as you still had Tatum, Smart, Brown and perhaps Hayward. IF that could happen, then yeah, I'd do it now. As kdp said, "since we're talking fantasy."

Still... ain't happening.

NY

If there is smoke there is fire. NO would have issued a statement of some kind if it were not true.

Second, you would need to give up Brown or Tatum ..............I prefer Brown and some draft picks. Perhaps there are other assets that can come to us via NO as well and make the trade larger.

This is not fantasy, I believe it is real unless NO issues a statement within the next day.

112288

112288 wrote:AS I stated above, you can pair them come the summer by signing KI, but get the best asset now.  

This move gives you a wide range of options.

From a pure .....who provides your team more..........Davis by far exceeds KI in that department.  KI is a scorer, he is not a good defender, and he does not distribute the ball to teammates on a level that he should be doing.  Russell Westbrook distributes the ball career 8.2 assists per game vs. KI - 5.5) and (career average 6.7 rebounds a game vs KI - 3.5) and (career average for points the same as KI).  So who is better Westbrook or Irving?  If it was Westbrook on the Celtics and you are discussing a trade of him for Davis..........now  that is another discussion and a strong argument for not trading him.

Again I argue, does KI make his teammates better......in my opinion NO!

It is the old Russell - Chamberlain argument..........but Russell made his teammates better.

So, waiting for the summer, Davis may be gone by then for at least 2 years if he is traded now to another team.......and who knows if you can get him in 2 years.  

By then Al Hordford is over his peak, so then what do the Celtics do............what, you are going to sign Joel Embiit...........not happening!  You have to get a center to cancel out Embiit now, as Philly is only going to add more weapons because of Embiit, and in my opinion, Philly is one great player away from passing the Celtics as a team.  Embiit is a dominate presence and will be for years ahead.  Right now we have no one on the team who can stop Embiit.

You just don't find 7 footers who possess the skills he has on every street corner.  And, how many times can you be in a position in the draft to snag one there.  However, there are plenty of point guards that you can get, that can get the job done, and win a championship for you.


112288

112288

How do you get the best asset now?

Is NOLA looking to trade Davis now even though he is under contract for the remainder of this year and next year?

The timing of your suggestion simply does not match the reality of the situation. I do not disagree with you about getting Davis. It just does not seem like something that can happen anytime soon. Your recommendations make sense if Davis asks to be traded before the summer or if he turns down the super-max contract this summer.

2 months ago Davis issued this statement

Anthony Davis: "You can’t listen to what somebody else is saying or listen to all the white noise or, ‘AD’s going here, he’s going here, he’s going here.’ Well, AD is playing for the Pelicans this year. So my job is to focus on winning and helping these guys as much as possible on and off the floor. And the rest will take care of itself."

The information about the teams he would not mind playing for is 4 months old news.

So we are having a discussion about old news as if he gave a list of teams yesterday who he would not mind playing for.

I can only go by what is being stated currently. 2 month old news is just that, old news.

As far as getting the best asset.........by far he is the best asset if you combine both teams roster.

What you should have asked is, how do you get AD at the cheapest price. And my answer to you is the Art of The Deal............negotiate! And if the price is too steep, tell NO to give you last look before trading him elsewhere. By far, Boston has all the assets to cut a better deal then any other team........so Danny would be in a control situation.

112288

AD is too injury prone, in my opinion, to barter highly-valuable assets for him. And who's to say he doesn't re-up with NOLA through a super max contract?

Until AD actually says he wants out, instead of widespread, speculative analyses, I don't think it'll happen.


KJ

112288 wrote:I can only go by what is being stated currently.  2 month old news is just that, old news.

As far as getting the best asset.........by far he is the best asset if you combine both teams roster.

What you should have asked is, how do you get AD at the cheapest price.  And my answer to you is the Art of The Deal............negotiate!  And if the price is too steep, tell NO to give you last look before trading him elsewhere.  By far, Boston has all the assets to cut a better deal then any other team........so Danny would be in a control situation.

112288

112288

What is being stated currently is old news. That is the point I was trying to make. The impetus behind this thread is in fact old news. Unsubstantiated old rumors. They recycle themselves around the internet in an endless loop and people latch on at any point in time without even knowing whence they came from.

In some respects you are putting the cart before the horse. It is not even a questions about assets. Argue with yourself about that. Have you seen or read anything that states that AD wants to leave NOLA or that NOLA wants to move him now?