Al Horford going elsewhere

We still have boatload of picks and Tatum, Brown and Smart, we will add better modern players thru the draft, looking forward to seeing how young team grows. Our core will get better, we’re just getting started, don’t be sad....think of Belushi in Animal House!!!!

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2019/

looks like the MOST cap room we can have is around $22M

and that is with Irving and Horford both signing elsewhere and renouncing both Morris and Roziers rights.


we'd be left with a roster of

Hayward
Smart
Tatum
Brown
Baynes
Yabusele
Rob Williams
Semi

under contract

if we keep our three first round picks they will cost us about $7M of the $22M in cap space.

at that point we have 12 players on the roster and about $15M in cap space.

so I doubt we'll have enough cap space to sign a top free agent. More likely second tier guys.

I would guess any players past the top 20 on the list below, could be in play for that type of money, remember we need to add TWO or three spots

https://hoopshype.com/2019/04/29/nba-free-agency-2019-the-top-players/

we'd still have the rights to resign Theis and Wannamaker if they chose.


Tiki and Tierny show yesterday opened with the question" Have we over rated Danny Ainge ?"

kdp59 wrote:https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2019/

looks like the MOST cap room we can have is around $22M

and that is with Irving and Horford both signing elsewhere and renouncing both Morris and Roziers rights.


we'd be left with a roster of

Hayward
Smart
Tatum
Brown
Baynes
Yabusele
Rob Williams
Semi

under contract

if we keep our three first round picks they will cost us about $7M of the $22M in cap space.

at that point we have 12 players on the roster and about $15M in cap space.

so I doubt we'll have enough cap space to sign a top free agent. More likely second tier guys.

I would guess any players past the top 20 on the list below, could be in play for that type of money, remember we need to add TWO or three spots

https://hoopshype.com/2019/04/29/nba-free-agency-2019-the-top-players/

we'd still have the rights to resign Theis and Wannamaker if they chose.


Tiki and Tierny show yesterday opened with the question" Have we over rated Danny Ainge ?"

I'd even be willing to shed Yabusele and Semi and start from there.

I would not be surprised to see the return of Rozier, and possibly even Morris. Somebody has to be out on the court with Tatum, Smart and Brown.

gyso wrote:

Matty wrote:Man what a punch to the gut. I was really hoping al stayed around.

I agree.  Al Horford is listed as the #1 big man free agent in an article on Yahoo Sports.  It seems like many here will gladly let him go and then they want to get someone else ranked lower on the list?  

To top it off, there are no quality bigs available in the draft this year.

I hope y'all are happy with Baynes and Williams.

This is a big fat suck pill, IMO.

Gyso the Boston Celtics were not going to win the championship with Al Horford as their top big.  

For all those long time Celtics fans that have watched championship teams win they all had a common thread.  They all had superior talent in the middle and along the frontline.  Al Horford is in fact a  complementary piece.  Why should Boston give him more years when they already can see his decline?

If you are concerned about what happens next year, don't be as we will likely struggle.

Al Horford made a decision that was best for him long term and Danny made a decision that is best for the Celtics long term.

I'm pretty certain that fans are not happy with Baynes and RW.  But it doesn't matter to me because we were not going to win with Horford anyways.

Too many fans think that somehow KI was the cause of a disappointing season and with him gone and retaining Al puts us right back in the mix.  It would not do that.  Boston has to get longer and more athletic in the post in order to compete.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:What kind of money does this give them, I know they lose a ton with Kyrie leaving (he is a real ass, let me tell you), not answering Celtic calls, hiring a posse’ just like his buddy LeBron, and basically flipping the bird to the Celtics.  
Now I have to wonder about what was going on all year last year. Maybe the gap between the young and old was a lot bigger than we thought. Kyrie and Horford, Morris vs the young guys.

Danny could never have predicted this happening. I think this must be a shocker to him losing them both. Who knows, maybe you are right, and they are happy

A Posse’?? The use of that word is very disappointing...

4 yr, 100m is a lot to commit to Al at this point.

Boston should have the full MLE which can be used to add a free agent.  They will also have some Cap space to add another.  Boston will not be in the market to add any high priced FA's this year.

Boston may over-react and squander picks on trying to secure a veteran guy out there.  They should not do that.  Short term deals that puts Boston in a position to be a player in FA in two years may be the best course of action.  Boston should draft the best available center, PF, shooter or PG and move forward.  Tatum and Brown become the top offensive players on the team and hopefully GH is completely ready to play (that is a big if)  RW will get 20 MPG and we will get a much better feel for his upside once he is playing consistent minutes.

There are solid big man to be drafted as well.  2 years from now Boston could have a solid and young frontline rotation.  If not then it will be back to free agency.

dboss wrote:Boston should have the full MLE which can be used to add a free agent.  They will also have some Cap space to add another.  Boston will not be in the market to add any high priced FA's this year.

Boston may over-react and squander picks on trying to secure a veteran guy out there.  They should not do that.  Short term deals that puts Boston in a position to be a player in FA in two years may be the best course of action.  Boston should draft the best available center, PF, shooter or PG and move forward.  Tatum and Brown become the top offensive players on the team and hopefully GH is completely ready to play (that is a big if)  RW will get 20 MPG and we will get a much better feel for his upside once he is playing consistent minutes.

There are solid big man to be drafted as well.  2 years from now Boston could have a solid and young frontline rotation.  If not then it will be back to free agency.

I would agree here, but I an trying to figure out if the team would be better with the cap space (by renouncing all of  Horford, Irving, Morris and Rozier) and going under the cap by about $15M and only having the lower MLE of about $4.7M

or

Staying over the cap by resigning Rozier and/ or Morris and then getting the higher MLE which can be up to a 4 year deal at $39M ( about $9.2M the first year).

It is a close call  for me.

Danny doesn’t need to overreact. Target the next piece. Maybe a mild move up to 9 or 10 for Doumbouya or earlier for White or Garland. Maybe stay put for Washington or Bitadze. In free agency, add a backup point guard. The Cs will still probably have a similar record and should be more fun to watch.

kdp59 wrote:

dboss wrote:Boston should have the full MLE which can be used to add a free agent.  They will also have some Cap space to add another.  Boston will not be in the market to add any high priced FA's this year.

Boston may over-react and squander picks on trying to secure a veteran guy out there.  They should not do that.  Short term deals that puts Boston in a position to be a player in FA in two years may be the best course of action.  Boston should draft the best available center, PF, shooter or PG and move forward.  Tatum and Brown become the top offensive players on the team and hopefully GH is completely ready to play (that is a big if)  RW will get 20 MPG and we will get a much better feel for his upside once he is playing consistent minutes.

There are solid big man to be drafted as well.  2 years from now Boston could have a solid and young frontline rotation.  If not then it will be back to free agency.

I would agree here, but I an trying to figure out if the team would be better with the cap space (by renouncing all of  Horford, Irving, Morris and Rozier) and going under the cap by about $15M and only having the lower MLE of about $4.7M

or

Staying over the cap by resigning Rozier and/ or Morris and then getting the higher MLE which can be up to a 4 year deal at $39M ( about $9.2M the first year).

It is a close call  for me.

I don’t think Ainge actually will need to make that decision until after 7/6. He should pretty much know which way is best by then

KyleCleric wrote:

kdp59 wrote:

dboss wrote:Boston should have the full MLE which can be used to add a free agent.  They will also have some Cap space to add another.  Boston will not be in the market to add any high priced FA's this year.

Boston may over-react and squander picks on trying to secure a veteran guy out there.  They should not do that.  Short term deals that puts Boston in a position to be a player in FA in two years may be the best course of action.  Boston should draft the best available center, PF, shooter or PG and move forward.  Tatum and Brown become the top offensive players on the team and hopefully GH is completely ready to play (that is a big if)  RW will get 20 MPG and we will get a much better feel for his upside once he is playing consistent minutes.

There are solid big man to be drafted as well.  2 years from now Boston could have a solid and young frontline rotation.  If not then it will be back to free agency.

I would agree here, but I an trying to figure out if the team would be better with the cap space (by renouncing all of  Horford, Irving, Morris and Rozier) and going under the cap by about $15M and only having the lower MLE of about $4.7M

or

Staying over the cap by resigning Rozier and/ or Morris and then getting the higher MLE which can be up to a 4 year deal at $39M ( about $9.2M the first year).

It is a close call  for me.

I don’t think Ainge actually will need to make that decision until after 7/6. He should pretty much know which way is best by then

True.....since we will not be players in any of the top tier Free agents we will all have to wait and see.

I thought offers to RFA's had to be made early though, for some reason.

kdp59 wrote:Tiki and Tierny show yesterday opened with the question" Have we over rated Danny Ainge ?"

Guess the need something to talk about.

The geography of the NBA showed a seismic shift in the last year or so. Kwahi to Raptors, Davis also demanding an early trade, big moves by Philly, the rise of the Nuggets, the fall of the Rockets. Landscape is very different than it was this time last year.

Even as late as April, nearly to a man (and Rosalie ) out here - we would have taken Milwaukee over Toronto - and Golden State (or even Denver) over any Eastern Conference team.

At the same time, the idea was solidified that Danny was a stone cold killer and GMs the league over had to agree that what he did to Billy King wasn't going to happen to them.

Add in Kyrie being a toxic disaster, Hayward destroying his leg, and chemistry issues - and here we are. Still one of the 10 best teams in the NBA and still on the rise.

Patience.

My CAP SPACE MATH IS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN $22M.

If we retain only the following players we'll have a salary load of about $72M:
GH, JT, JB, AB, GY (whom I would trade), RW, and Semi, including a$93 k burden left with Demetrius Jax.  Theis and Wanamaker earn chump change. The Luxury tax hits at $132M. Most of our $71M  in cap holds plus Kyrie's $21M salary will be GONE. We have plenty of room to resign Terry if we want to and then some.

we can sign Rozier and or MOrris for whatever contract we like.

The questions with Horford leaving has been can we be players in Free agency .

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2019/


spotrac may not be perfect, but they are usually pretty close.


they have us at $165M in salary WITH our cap holds.

Irving is still shown on that # at $21.3M
Horford is now shown as a HOLD at $38M
Morris hold is at $10.2M
Rozier at $9.1M

those four total about $78M OFF the cap if we renounce or they sign elsewhere.

my math puts us then at $87M with the other holds or about $22M under the cap.

once the draft happens Thurday Spotrac will add the rookie holds to all teams salary caps also.

if we keep al three picks that should be around $7M

leaving us at $15M or more in space

we can keep Roziers rights, but until he signs something his cap hold willbe that $9.1M leaving us only $7M in cap space.

cap wise, if we keep Rozier we may be better off trying to keep Morris as well, keeping us OVER the cap and allowing us to use the full MLE (of $9.2M first year) to sign another vet big man.

Ainge has a couple ways to go now.

kdp59 wrote:

dboss wrote:Boston should have the full MLE which can be used to add a free agent.  They will also have some Cap space to add another.  Boston will not be in the market to add any high priced FA's this year.

Boston may over-react and squander picks on trying to secure a veteran guy out there.  They should not do that.  Short term deals that puts Boston in a position to be a player in FA in two years may be the best course of action.  Boston should draft the best available center, PF, shooter or PG and move forward.  Tatum and Brown become the top offensive players on the team and hopefully GH is completely ready to play (that is a big if)  RW will get 20 MPG and we will get a much better feel for his upside once he is playing consistent minutes.

There are solid big man to be drafted as well.  2 years from now Boston could have a solid and young frontline rotation.  If not then it will be back to free agency.

I would agree here, but I an trying to figure out if the team would be better with the cap space (by renouncing all of  Horford, Irving, Morris and Rozier) and going under the cap by about $15M and only having the lower MLE of about $4.7M

or

Staying over the cap by resigning Rozier and/ or Morris and then getting the higher MLE which can be up to a 4 year deal at $39M ( about $9.2M the first year).

It is a close call  for me.

The team would be better with Horford, Morris and Rozier but not better enough to win. I think it is better for Boston to move forward with the young core and the 5 first rounders.

dboss wrote:

The team would be better with Horford, Morris and Rozier but not better enough to win.  I think it is better for Boston to move forward with the young core and the 5 first rounders.

If fairness to me giving you a hard time in the past about playing both sides of the fence, this has been the single most consistent thing you have said out here FOR YEARS.

You have always maintained that the Celtics were never going to be "good enough" with Horford in the middle, and you always called out his albatross of a contract as an impediment to getting over the hump.

Can we not dump ALL these players and thus their cap holds leaving us with commitments of only $72M and then the price of the first round picks?

Marcus Morris $10,212,500
Terry Rozier $9,151,170
Jonathan Gibson $1,876,700
Daniel Theis $1,818,486
Brad Wanamaker $1,643,842
Shane Larkin $1,618,486  ????
P.J. Dozier $1,443,842
R.J. Hunter $1,443,842

mrkleen09 wrote:

dboss wrote:

The team would be better with Horford, Morris and Rozier but not better enough to win.  I think it is better for Boston to move forward with the young core and the 5 first rounders.

If fairness to me giving you a hard time in the past about playing both sides of the fence,  this has been the single most consistent thing you have said out here FOR YEARS.  

You have always maintained that the Celtics were never going to be "good enough" with Horford in the middle, and you always called out his albatross of a contract as an impediment to getting over the hump.  

Kleen

I have flip flopped many times over the years about things and if you recall I also said I am rarely 100% certain about anything. So I present counter arguments on practically everything. I argue on both sides of the issues.

The issue of winning with Al Horford, as our best big, was so clear to me that I could not find a reasonable counter argument except that he needed to be paired with a stud partner in the front line.

I think Boston has been forced to take a step or two back but they also have an opportunity to move forward from there and hopefully assemble the type of roster that has all the ingredients needed to win. We still have Marcus and the J's so we are not restarting at ground zero.

dboss wrote:Kleen

I think Boston has been forced to take a step or two back but they also have an opportunity to move forward from there and hopefully assemble the type of roster that has all the ingredients needed to win.  We still have Marcus and the J's so we are not restarting at ground zero.

Agree and I am all for it. Maybe I am a sucked for a team full of hard workers and nice guys like Marcus Smart - but give me that over a team of prima donnas any day of the week.

I do often wonder if the teams of my childhood were as cohesive and full of camaraderie as I was led to believe, or if it was just the lack of instantaneous social media and press coverage, that covered all the warts. Either way - however, I never heard of Bird, Parish and McHale bitching on a daily basis about X or Y. Those guys played ball, loved playing ball, and worked through their differences in house.

worcester wrote:Can we not dump ALL these players and thus their cap holds leaving us with commitments of only $72M and then the price of the first round picks?

Marcus Morris $10,212,500
Terry Rozier $9,151,170
Jonathan Gibson $1,876,700
Daniel Theis $1,818,486
Brad Wanamaker $1,643,842
Shane Larkin $1,618,486  ????
P.J. Dozier $1,443,842
R.J. Hunter $1,443,842

we could for sure and likely will, however my math is a bit different at about $77M (close enough)

any open roster spots the NBA does put a minimum hold on though that needs to be added back in.

either way we really will not be players for top end Free agents, IMO.

though we may be able to find a quality vet or two with the space and/or the MLE.

a re-calibration after the Mex Money signings of Horford and Hayward and the trade for Irving is fully in place now!!

Nets interested in Al Horford

A. Sherrod Blakely: A team to keep an eye on in the Al Horford sweepstakes is the Brooklyn Nets, league source says. The #Nets are a team on the rise, Al’s close ties to head coach Kenny Atkinson and the team’s cap space mentioned as the main reasons. – via Twitter ASherrodblakely

Maybe Al likes Irving!

kdp59 wrote:Nets interested in Al Horford

A. Sherrod Blakely: A team to keep an eye on in the Al Horford sweepstakes is the Brooklyn Nets, league source says. The #Nets are a team on the rise, Al’s close ties to head coach Kenny Atkinson and the team’s cap space mentioned as the main reasons. – via Twitter ASherrodblakely

Maybe Al likes Irving!

Those 2 going to the Nets would be insane. Please do it!

Would be some sweet justice (at our expense) if the Nets made it to the finals before the Celtics

Al played a good to man game with Irving. Maybe we can work a sign and trade and get back D'Angelo Russell.

That's a thought. Then what, sayonara Terry? But do we want to chew up all that cap space for a pg when we REALLY need a center?