Is it safe to hop on the Gordon Hayward hype train?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/safe-hop-gordon-hayward-hype-221125918.html




Is it safe to hop on the Gordon Hayward hype train?




Chris Forsberg,NBC Sports Boston 15 hours ago



BOSTON - The Gordon Hayward hype train officially departed North Station on June 5 when Danny Ainge, less than a month removed from his team's disappointing postseason exit, gushed about, "anticipating great things," from Hayward based on his early offseason workouts at the team's practice facility.

Since then, that train has become a runaway locomotive, with members at every level of the Celtics organization raving about Hayward throughout the offseason. That train seemingly rumbled off the MBTA tracks outside the Auerbach Center Wednesday and smashed through the walls of Red's House when Enes Kanter doubled-down on his already bold proclamation that Hayward should be eyeing a return to the All-Star game this season.

"He's back. He's 100 percent back," said Kanter. "He's going to shock the world this year."

It's 100 percent fair to be skeptical. Even as Hayward endured a second surgery on his ankle last summer, there was no shortage of ballyhoo in the ramp to the 2018-19 season - in part because the Celtics were also adding a healthy Kyrie Irving to a team that came four minutes away from a trip to the NBA Finals.

Kanter, regarded as a Hall of Fame locker room guy, also has a long history of talking up his teammates. Heck, he raved about coach Brad Stevens' basketball skills last month. So if you want to be leery of Kanter's proclamation, we get it. But know that he's also practicing what he preaches.

"When Coach puts us in 5-on-5 [scrimmages during training camp], I always try to sneak on Gordon's team," Kanter told NBC Sports Boston after Wednesday's morning workout. "When I go against him I'm like, ‘Ugh.' He's good, man."

It'd be one thing if Kanter was the only person gassing up Hayward. But this has been universal. Whispers in the ramp to camp were that Hayward was easily the best player in Boston's informal scrimmages, though it should be noted that players like Kemba Walker and Jayson Tatum were limited participants while recovering from the World Cup grind.

At the very least, Hayward has increased his odds of hitting the ground running this year with his summer efforts.

Hayward put his San Diego residence on the market and bunkered down in Boston this offseason. He spent most weekday mornings working out with the Celtics' training staff at the Auerbach Center and his dedication to staying close encouraged fellow teammates to do the same.

Stevens, never one to overhype his players, has routinely noted how Hayward has positioned himself for success with his offseason dedication. Asked Wednesday how Hayward has looked at the start of camp, Stevens responded, "The investment has been well-documented over the summer. And you can see it. You can see it."

That's about as high of praise as you'll get from Stevens. Which leads us to believe that, when there's this much smoke, there's usually fire (kind of like when everyone kept saying that Irving was definitely bound for Brooklyn).

It's absolutely fair to want to see it. The Celtics have kept nearly all of their camp activity behind closed doors to this point, with media members seeing only limited shooting drills at the end of morning sessions the past two days. So we've been left to get scouting reports from Hayward's teammates. And, considering there are eight rookies in camp, you can take their views with a grain of salt.

Asked for his opinion of what he's seen of Hayward, rookie Vincent Poirier, an imported French big man, said simply, "He looks like he never got injured," then raved about Hayward's full-throttle mentality in camp.

A real glimpse will come soon, at least by Sunday's exhibition opener against the Charlotte Hornets. It should be evident quickly whether Hayward is truly playing with the same sort of confidence and ability as the one the Celtics lured away from Utah on a four-year, $128 million contract in the summer of 2017.

Kanter insists his bullishness about Hayward goes beyond just how he's looked on the court.

"It's his leadership," said Kanter. "He already had a lot of confidence in himself but he seems so comfortable out there. Because I played against him last year and then, what I've seen the last two days, how he plays, how he leads, it's just very special."

Kanter admitted he could tell Hayward wasn't quite himself last year, especially early in the season. The two players were teammates in Utah and Kanter saw the early stages of Hayward's evolution into an All-Star.

Now he wants to see him get back to that level and believes he will.

"He's the type of guy that not only makes himself better, he makes everybody else better around him," said Kanter. "That's what makes him really special."

For his part, Hayward said Wednesday that, "The body feels 100 percent." Earlier in the week he noted how training in Boston allowed him to build the sort of momentum that had been sapped by the second surgery last summer.

"I have been through a lot - and just in the last two years - and it is exciting to have that full offseason where I can train and get back to what I'm used to doing and not worry about my ankle or health or anything like that," said Hayward. "Now having two years with the guys and the staff and building relationships and different things like that, it's definitely better in that regard, too, so certainly I'm looking forward to this upcoming season and I'm ready to get it going."

Hayward is scheduled to earn $32.7 million this season. A return to All-Star form could leave him with an interesting dilemma next summer, as he has an early termination option. Hayward is set to earn $34.2 million in the final year of his Boston deal but could opt out and seek a more bountiful max-salary deal, now with 10 years of NBA experience.

The Celtics will happily cross that bridge if it means Hayward gets back to his previous form. Getting him there could be the biggest key in Boston outkicking its already tempered expectations this season.

If he doesn't, the Celtics have some tough decisions of their own about how to move forward. The team has a glut of talented wings and both Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum could soon command big paydays. Hayward's bulky salary could make it enticing for the Celtics to make a big in-season trade - maybe allowing them to jump into the fray if Bradley Beal becomes available, or any other disgruntled star that hits the trade market.

For now, the Celtics would rather just get the Hayward they had before his gruesome ankle injury. They want the Hayward that everyone has been hyping all offseason.



bob
MY NOTE:  I don't think it's too early to say that it's too early for Rosalie to jump on the Gordon Hayward Hype Train, because she never left it.  If Hayward is even 80% as effective as what he was in Utah we are in very good shape because we have more talent around him than they were able to assemble.  Kemba, Gordon and Jayson cannot be left from the outside while Kanter and Poirier cannot be left alone on the inside.  Am I concerned with our defense?  Sure, especially our baseline defense but you know Brad is harping on the need to dedicate ourselves to defense ad nauseum.

The "Gordon Hayward Hype Train"?  We already began to see that pulling out of the station last season, just inconsistently.  That's what it's all about this year for him, consistency.  He doesn't have to score 20+ points every game like in Utah for us to win, but he can't go out there and be hot one game and then be a cypher the next four.  He can't be another Jeff Green.


.

I did not think he had a bad year last year.  

He shot 46% from the field, 83.4% from the line and he averaged 3.4 assists and 4.5 rebounds.  He struggled making the deep ball at 33.3%.  

I do not know what the expectations are for him.  I expect him to play well.  I think his confidence will be restored because he has worked his butt off.  Last year he proved to be a most unselfish player.  He passed up too many open looks and was tentative in his decision making.

The biggest problem that this team faces is having enough shots to go around so that guys like Gordon and Jaylen can be productive.  You need 2-3 guys in every lineup that are there to take shots.  Every lineup needs committed facilitators whose sole purpose is to enhance our primary shot makers.

I do not believe that you can play our 3 wings together with a high volume PG and a center that is a scorer first.

You need a nonscorer in the lineups.  

If I was Brad I might bring GH off the bench to start off so that he does not have too much pressure on him to perform.  Or I would bring Brown off the bench so that GH can get more opportunities.  One of our wings has to be a rotation guy not name Jason Tatum.  Either Brown or GH could be an ideal 30 MPG 6th man on this team!

GH will be more than okay this year.  The train already left the station.  It is an express train with NO stops along the way.  You simply cannot get on and get off.

Gordon should be better this year.
I thought he was pretty bad last year, especially on defense.
On offense, his final numbers were ok, but as Bob said, he had one great game then a number of poor or average games.
His 6-8 great games (mostly in blow outs) inflated his overall numbers.
Gordon had so many bad, really bad games last year.
I think Gordon is a better fit off of the bench, especially when Kemba is on the bench.
His versatility on offense can be effective and can lead a second unit.

I believe GH had a better defensive rating than Smat and Brown.

I think that is relevant since those guys are on the same team.

dboss wrote:I believe GH had a better defensive rating than Smat and Brown.  

I think that is relevant since those guys are on the same team.  

It's best to ignore the defensive ratings.
It's virtually a worthless rating.
The defensive ratings are laughable because they have so many great defensive players listed as mediocre or poor and poor defensive players are listed as good defensive players.
As an FYI, Hayward had a worse defensive rating than Smart and Brown and and was 6th out of Boston's top 9 rotation players.
Morris and Irving lead the Celtics in defensive rating on the nba.com website.

dboss wrote:I did not think he had a bad year last year.  

He shot 46% from the field, 83.4% from the line and he averaged 3.4 assists and 4.5 rebounds.  He struggled making the deep ball at 33.3%.  

I do not know what the expectations are for him.  I expect him to play well.  I think his confidence will be restored because he has worked his butt off.  Last year he proved to be a most unselfish player.  He passed up too many open looks and was tentative in his decision making.

The biggest problem that this team faces is having enough shots to go around so that guys like Gordon and Jaylen can be productive.  You need 2-3 guys in every lineup that are there to take shots.  Every lineup needs committed facilitators whose sole purpose is to enhance our primary shot makers.

I do not believe that you can play our 3 wings together with a high volume PG and a center that is a scorer first.

You need a nonscorer in the lineups.  

If I was Brad I might bring GH off the bench to start off so that he does not have too much pressure on him to perform.  Or I would bring Brown off the bench so that GH can get more opportunities.  One of our wings has to be a rotation guy not name Jason Tatum.  Either Brown or GH could be an ideal 30 MPG 6th man on this team!

GH will be more than okay this year.  The train already left the station.  It is an express train with NO stops along the way.  You simply cannot get on and get off.

Robert Williams is the non scorer impact player we need to compliment all the pretty boys....

tjmakz wrote:

dboss wrote:I believe GH had a better defensive rating than Smat and Brown.  

I think that is relevant since those guys are on the same team.  

It's best to ignore the defensive ratings.
It's virtually a worthless rating.
The defensive ratings are laughable because they have so many great defensive players listed as mediocre or poor and poor defensive players are listed as good defensive players.
As an FYI, Hayward had a worse defensive rating than Smart and Brown and and was 6th out of Boston's top 9 rotation players.
Morris and Irving lead the Celtics in defensive rating on the nba.com website.

TJ

I completely disagree.  Defensive ratings are not worthless.  

As an FYI you got it wrong see NBA.com here

[url=https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season]https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season[/url]

Hayward was at 105.2   Smart was 106.6

Morris and Irving did not lead the Celtics in defensive rating.  As a matter of fact they were the two worse defenders on the team at 108.9 and 107.1 respectively.

I completely understand that defensive and offensive ratings are impacted by teammates.  The Celtics had a defensive rating of 107.  Last year the Celtics gave up on average 108 PPG.  With that it mind it should be evident that their defensive rating is very much in line with the amount of points allowed.  Defensive ratings are not worthless.

You stated that, "I thought he was pretty bad last year, especially on defense."


There is no evidence that supports your assertion.  I think your assertion is just another perception that conflicts with the truth.  I recall some comments last year out of the GSW camp that disparaged GH.  Sometimes the eye test can fool you.  I saw some games where he could not stay in front of his man.  I saw the same thing from every player on this team.  If a player who is a major part of a team's rotation falls outside of the mean by (+ or -5%)  you can draw some conclusions about their individual impact.  GH 's defensive rating was better than the team's defensive rating.  Therefore he was a pretty reliable defender.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

dboss wrote:I did not think he had a bad year last year.  

He shot 46% from the field, 83.4% from the line and he averaged 3.4 assists and 4.5 rebounds.  He struggled making the deep ball at 33.3%.  

I do not know what the expectations are for him.  I expect him to play well.  I think his confidence will be restored because he has worked his butt off.  Last year he proved to be a most unselfish player.  He passed up too many open looks and was tentative in his decision making.

The biggest problem that this team faces is having enough shots to go around so that guys like Gordon and Jaylen can be productive.  You need 2-3 guys in every lineup that are there to take shots.  Every lineup needs committed facilitators whose sole purpose is to enhance our primary shot makers.

I do not believe that you can play our 3 wings together with a high volume PG and a center that is a scorer first.

You need a nonscorer in the lineups.  

If I was Brad I might bring GH off the bench to start off so that he does not have too much pressure on him to perform.  Or I would bring Brown off the bench so that GH can get more opportunities.  One of our wings has to be a rotation guy not name Jason Tatum.  Either Brown or GH could be an ideal 30 MPG 6th man on this team!

GH will be more than okay this year.  The train already left the station.  It is an express train with NO stops along the way.  You simply cannot get on and get off.

Robert Williams is the non scorer impact player we need to compliment all the pretty boys....

If you want to play your 4 wings and Walker together,  Williams or even Poirier could get some starts.  You could also play Theis, Semi or the rookie Willams at PF and sit one of your wings.

I do not see a full time starter at either PF or center.  There is going to be a lot of experimentation.  There are only 2 players on this team that will likely start every game.   (Walker and Tatum)

dboss wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

dboss wrote:I believe GH had a better defensive rating than Smat and Brown.  

I think that is relevant since those guys are on the same team.  

It's best to ignore the defensive ratings.
It's virtually a worthless rating.
The defensive ratings are laughable because they have so many great defensive players listed as mediocre or poor and poor defensive players are listed as good defensive players.
As an FYI, Hayward had a worse defensive rating than Smart and Brown and and was 6th out of Boston's top 9 rotation players.
Morris and Irving lead the Celtics in defensive rating on the nba.com website.

TJ

I completely disagree.  Defensive ratings are not worthless.  

As an FYI you got it wrong see NBA.com here

[url=https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season]https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season[/url]

Hayward was at 105.2   Smart was 106.6

Morris and Irving did not lead the Celtics in defensive rating.  As a matter of fact they were the two worse defenders on the team at 108.9 and 107.1 respectively.

I completely understand that defensive and offensive ratings are impacted by teammates.  The Celtics had a defensive rating of 107.  Last year the Celtics gave up on average 108 PPG.  With that it mind it should be evident that their defensive rating is very much in line with the amount of points allowed.  Defensive ratings are not worthless.

You stated that, "I thought he was pretty bad last year, especially on defense."


There is no evidence that supports your assertion.  I think your assertion is just another perception that conflicts with the truth.  I recall some comments last year out of the GSW camp that disparaged GH.  Sometimes the eye test can fool you.  I saw some games where he could not stay in front of his man.  I saw the same thing from every player on this team.  If a player who is a major part of a team's rotation falls outside of the mean by (+ or -5%)  you can draw some conclusions about their individual impact.  GH 's defensive rating was better than the team's defensive rating.  Therefore he was a pretty reliable defender.

dboss,

You are right. I was thinking the numbers on the nba.com website were based on the higher number as the better defender. It's the opposite.

I still put very little importance on defensive ratings.
If we try to take them as meaningful, then we would have to believe that Korver, Barea, Rozier and both Curry brothers had better defensive years than Marcus Smart because they had a better defensive rating.
There were literally dozens and dozens of guards ranked better than Smart.

It was evident that Gordon struggled last year trying to keep his defender in front of him.
That was shown by watching the games, not stats.
Maybe this year he won't be as slow footed.

My eye test told me Morris’s defense sucked at best and Kyrie hustled on D, but was still a limited defender as opposed to an impact defender....

Surprising to many is the NBA stat on how fast GH gets up and down.

At this point I have already moved forward. GH will be a much better player this year. At least that is what I am hoping for.

as someone who is considered one of Haywards critics here ( I think I just point out facts.. .)

I hope we see the best that Hayward has this year, if only so he will opt out and free up money for us to re-sign Tatum and Brown!!


how was that one?

That’s the problem with too many good young players, how do you keep them all or even the ones that you need that may not be great...???

GH is 29 years old and turns 30 in March.  He is already in his prime and 2 of those prime years have not been great.  Some players are able to be very productive into their mid 30's.

The risk factor however increases with age.

This is a make it or break it year for Hayward.  He really needs to have a good year.  I sure hope he does.

cowens/oldschool wrote:That’s the problem with too many good young players, how do you keep them all or even the ones that you need that may not be great...???

Cow

Not all of the good young players need to be retained.

You keep the best of the best.   You keep the ones that have allstar potential and there are only 2 on this team.  All the other young good players are in fact complimentary players.