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Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by bobheckler Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:33 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-nba-players-choose-not-170019779.html
Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
Dan Feldman
NBC Sports
June 15, 2020, 10:00 AM PDT
The public messaging on players who choose not to play in the NBA’s resumption at Disney World: They won’t face discipline.
But they won’t get paid, which is no small matter.
Ramona Shelburne and Adrian Wojnarowski:
they will lose payment on games missed — 1/92nd of the money owed them, sources said.
I wonder whether that’s actually 1/92.6th, which is the amount salaries are reduced for each game canceled through force majeure.
Either way, it’s a higher proportion of salary than players lose when suspended.
Here’s the share of salaries players lose per game when:
Suspended for fewer than 20 games: 0.7% (1/145th)
Suspended for 20 games or more: 0.9% (1/110th)
Choosing not to play at Disney World: 1.1%
That seems unfair – especially when players on the eight done teams will receive the same percentage of their salaries as reporting players on the continuing 22 teams.*
*Almost certainly, no players will get their full slated salaries with league-wide revenue way down.
Players have expressed a variety of concerns about continuing play – safety amid the coronavirus pandemic, standard of living in a closed campus, advancing the Black Lives Matter movement. For someone to choose not to play would be a heavy decision. It feels crass to treat him more harshly financially than a suspended player.
There’s not necessarily an easy way to handle this unprecedented situation. Nobody signed up to play games under these circumstances. It’s also tough to make a case that owners should pay players who choose not to play.
In practical terms, players who choose to sit out would lose 9%-41% of their salaries, based on this reporting. The continuing 22 teams will each play eight seeding games plus potentially one or two play-in games and up to 28 games through the playoffs.
For the three players most commonly linked to sitting out, here would be their lost wages:
Kyrie Irving (Nets): $2,760,174 – $9,660,609
Dwight Howard (Lakers): $223,022 – $780,577
CJ McCollum (Trail Blazers): $2,396,257 – $8,985,965
Obviously, it’s highly unlikely any team reaches a Game 7 in every round, especially a team that participates in a play-in. So, the high end of these ranges are mostly theoretical.
But if enough players sit out to force the NBA to cancel the rest of the season, lost 2019-20 salaries would be just the start of financial ramifications for players. Owners would almost certainly terminate the Collective Bargaining Agreement, leaving players locked out and negotiating at a time NBA games are less valuable.
Back to this season… Irving almost certainly won’t have his salary docked. He underwent season-ending surgery. His injury excuses him – with pay.
Really, I wonder whether any players – whatever their main reason(s) for not returning – will actually have their salaries reduced for not playing. NBA players put their bodies through incredible physical tolls. Some could undergo surgery for a lingering issue that doesn’t necessarily need to be addressed immediately but would make them legitimately unavailable. There’s a playbook for this.
But it’s a shame players would have to resort to that type of subterfuge just to get treated better than a suspended player.
bob
MY NOTE: If you do something that deserves suspension that is worse than doing something that keeps you out of a game. An injury you can play through but you choose not to, for example. Another example, Kyrie Irving not suiting up for games in Cleveland and Boston. He still got paid, didn't he? I understand the owners want to apply pressure to the players, especially the marquis TV-rating ones, to get them back on the court but this isn't right. If the risk to further injury from a contusion is enough to sit out some games but isn't enough to dock their pay why should sitting out because of the risk from an infectious disease be enough. How many players would have gotten on the court with Rudy Gobert if they had known he was tested positive?
.
Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
Dan Feldman
NBC Sports
June 15, 2020, 10:00 AM PDT
The public messaging on players who choose not to play in the NBA’s resumption at Disney World: They won’t face discipline.
But they won’t get paid, which is no small matter.
Ramona Shelburne and Adrian Wojnarowski:
they will lose payment on games missed — 1/92nd of the money owed them, sources said.
I wonder whether that’s actually 1/92.6th, which is the amount salaries are reduced for each game canceled through force majeure.
Either way, it’s a higher proportion of salary than players lose when suspended.
Here’s the share of salaries players lose per game when:
Suspended for fewer than 20 games: 0.7% (1/145th)
Suspended for 20 games or more: 0.9% (1/110th)
Choosing not to play at Disney World: 1.1%
That seems unfair – especially when players on the eight done teams will receive the same percentage of their salaries as reporting players on the continuing 22 teams.*
*Almost certainly, no players will get their full slated salaries with league-wide revenue way down.
Players have expressed a variety of concerns about continuing play – safety amid the coronavirus pandemic, standard of living in a closed campus, advancing the Black Lives Matter movement. For someone to choose not to play would be a heavy decision. It feels crass to treat him more harshly financially than a suspended player.
There’s not necessarily an easy way to handle this unprecedented situation. Nobody signed up to play games under these circumstances. It’s also tough to make a case that owners should pay players who choose not to play.
In practical terms, players who choose to sit out would lose 9%-41% of their salaries, based on this reporting. The continuing 22 teams will each play eight seeding games plus potentially one or two play-in games and up to 28 games through the playoffs.
For the three players most commonly linked to sitting out, here would be their lost wages:
Kyrie Irving (Nets): $2,760,174 – $9,660,609
Dwight Howard (Lakers): $223,022 – $780,577
CJ McCollum (Trail Blazers): $2,396,257 – $8,985,965
Obviously, it’s highly unlikely any team reaches a Game 7 in every round, especially a team that participates in a play-in. So, the high end of these ranges are mostly theoretical.
But if enough players sit out to force the NBA to cancel the rest of the season, lost 2019-20 salaries would be just the start of financial ramifications for players. Owners would almost certainly terminate the Collective Bargaining Agreement, leaving players locked out and negotiating at a time NBA games are less valuable.
Back to this season… Irving almost certainly won’t have his salary docked. He underwent season-ending surgery. His injury excuses him – with pay.
Really, I wonder whether any players – whatever their main reason(s) for not returning – will actually have their salaries reduced for not playing. NBA players put their bodies through incredible physical tolls. Some could undergo surgery for a lingering issue that doesn’t necessarily need to be addressed immediately but would make them legitimately unavailable. There’s a playbook for this.
But it’s a shame players would have to resort to that type of subterfuge just to get treated better than a suspended player.
bob
MY NOTE: If you do something that deserves suspension that is worse than doing something that keeps you out of a game. An injury you can play through but you choose not to, for example. Another example, Kyrie Irving not suiting up for games in Cleveland and Boston. He still got paid, didn't he? I understand the owners want to apply pressure to the players, especially the marquis TV-rating ones, to get them back on the court but this isn't right. If the risk to further injury from a contusion is enough to sit out some games but isn't enough to dock their pay why should sitting out because of the risk from an infectious disease be enough. How many players would have gotten on the court with Rudy Gobert if they had known he was tested positive?
.
bobheckler- Posts : 61351
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by dboss Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:03 pm
Bob
Seems the only fair way to do this is to prorate salaries of players that choose not to participate.
I do not have a problem with any guys that do not want to play.
Seems the only fair way to do this is to prorate salaries of players that choose not to participate.
I do not have a problem with any guys that do not want to play.
dboss- Posts : 18751
Join date : 2009-11-01
Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by dbrown4 Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:24 pm
The sad, pathetic key to the whole story is in the first sentence..."They won't face any discipline." Pretty much sums up what's going on all over right now.
When we don't have to face consequences for our actions, the world winds up with our children rolling into the 9th grade who can't read, write or add numbers because they have been passed along from 1st grade via "social promotion."
When we don't have to face consequences, we can tell our boss who cuts our bloated checks to eff off, not come into work and still have our job whenever we decide to come back to work.
When we don't have to worry about consequences, we run wild in the streets, destroy others property and blame our actions on someone else or an unfair economic system...and head on back home unfazed, elated and thinking this is finally it, the moment and movement we've been waiting for. We're finally going to move up in the world and have our voices heard.
Good luck USA and race relations making anything close to desired progress this time around yet again. Please let's not kid ourselves and get our hopes up. Mild regression to continue at the very best. Henry the 8th I am I am. 2nd verse same as the 1st. Might want to check the definition of "Insanity" again in the dictionary while we're at it.
db
P.S. Board, please feel free to delete, if I have stepped out of bounds. My bad.
When we don't have to face consequences for our actions, the world winds up with our children rolling into the 9th grade who can't read, write or add numbers because they have been passed along from 1st grade via "social promotion."
When we don't have to face consequences, we can tell our boss who cuts our bloated checks to eff off, not come into work and still have our job whenever we decide to come back to work.
When we don't have to worry about consequences, we run wild in the streets, destroy others property and blame our actions on someone else or an unfair economic system...and head on back home unfazed, elated and thinking this is finally it, the moment and movement we've been waiting for. We're finally going to move up in the world and have our voices heard.
Good luck USA and race relations making anything close to desired progress this time around yet again. Please let's not kid ourselves and get our hopes up. Mild regression to continue at the very best. Henry the 8th I am I am. 2nd verse same as the 1st. Might want to check the definition of "Insanity" again in the dictionary while we're at it.
db
P.S. Board, please feel free to delete, if I have stepped out of bounds. My bad.
dbrown4- Posts : 5322
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by worcester Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:58 am
Kyrie with NOTHING TO LOSE urges financially vulnerable players not to play. He is a virtue signaling hypocrite if you ask me. Now if he donated all his potentially docked salary, the amount he would lose if he were not injured and chose not to play, then I would respect his opinion on sitting out. Not now.
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by RosalieTCeltics Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:18 pm
I may be a cynic here, but I am with Kendrick Perkins on his take of this recent stand Kyrie has taken. If he is so hell bent on fighting for social injustice, DO IT. Says he is will to give it all up?
DO IT. I gather, though I did not get her name, there is a girl from the WNBA who did exactly that and gave it all up to get into this fight.
Kyrie is a phony, period. Those listening to him are fools to believe when the going gets really tough that he will be standing right there with them. He will run for cover, I have no doubt about that.
DO IT. I gather, though I did not get her name, there is a girl from the WNBA who did exactly that and gave it all up to get into this fight.
Kyrie is a phony, period. Those listening to him are fools to believe when the going gets really tough that he will be standing right there with them. He will run for cover, I have no doubt about that.
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by worcester Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:26 pm
Ros, we see eye to eye on Kyrie.
worcester- Posts : 11522
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by dbrown4 Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:20 pm
I actually like Kyrie taking this particular stand. I don't necessarily like how he's supporting his argument or all his reasons why. I've been against restarting the season from the get-go. The bubble idea looks good on paper. But it isn't going to work. Way too dangerous of an experiment when we are dealing with people's lives, in this case high valued, highly specially talented individuals. Especially given the COVID numbers are back up on the rise again especially in Florida. Kyrie is right to be scared for his teammates even though he won't be participating in the bubble. The dissenting players taking a stand is only the beginning.
The NBA may be blowing itself up but won't know it until it's too late. I stayed in my previous career of finance long enough to know that when you possess or own an asset like an NBA team, like any asset or any business, its value potentially comes from two sources: income and growth.
The league's income stream has been shut off for the last 3 months, one that had been going steady for quite some time. All businesses go through times when the income stream temporarily gets shut off/drops off for one reason or another in a capitalistic economic system. If you keep it shut off too long, it goes out of business. Not having a clear vision stops many businesses.
The NBA needs to take a hit here and shut down the season for good. Greed has taken over. They're putting their extremely valuable assets at huge risk in the short run for the almighty dollar. They still have those assets whether they are producing income currently or not. Better to pack it up what they still have in assets and look toward next year than to potentially blow up the league and have nothing.
The NBA needs to proceed very carefully here. If it starts to fractionalize itself with the income stream has been shut off, the other part of the total asset value, growth, begins to shrink as well. If it loses its vision of getting back on the court and re-opening the season, and begins to trying to add things to the pie to appease people, it could very well self-destruct.
Worcester, you hit on a great point. You can't take your lead and advice from someone who's been out the whole season still making a ridiculous sum of money telling the rest of the league making considerably less than you to take a stand and sit out even more. Having money changes your perspective. Not having money changes your perspective. When you have people with money telling people without/with less money to do something in the name of a cause that involves the masses they are speaking to that they have to give up more money, buyer beware. The leaders aren't giving up anything and are typically a clanging gong. You, however, are giving up everything.
I'm glad Kyrie is gone from Boston. He just didn't fit in as a Celtic. Not as a player nor as a spokesperson for race relations nor a leader of the team. At least not as someone who is going to move things forward. But that's ok. A lot of people come to and go from the Celtics. The Boston Celtics were and are way ahead of Kyrie on race relations with many firsts that we all know about. I just hope he doesn't blowup the league. We'll see.
db
The NBA may be blowing itself up but won't know it until it's too late. I stayed in my previous career of finance long enough to know that when you possess or own an asset like an NBA team, like any asset or any business, its value potentially comes from two sources: income and growth.
The league's income stream has been shut off for the last 3 months, one that had been going steady for quite some time. All businesses go through times when the income stream temporarily gets shut off/drops off for one reason or another in a capitalistic economic system. If you keep it shut off too long, it goes out of business. Not having a clear vision stops many businesses.
The NBA needs to take a hit here and shut down the season for good. Greed has taken over. They're putting their extremely valuable assets at huge risk in the short run for the almighty dollar. They still have those assets whether they are producing income currently or not. Better to pack it up what they still have in assets and look toward next year than to potentially blow up the league and have nothing.
The NBA needs to proceed very carefully here. If it starts to fractionalize itself with the income stream has been shut off, the other part of the total asset value, growth, begins to shrink as well. If it loses its vision of getting back on the court and re-opening the season, and begins to trying to add things to the pie to appease people, it could very well self-destruct.
Worcester, you hit on a great point. You can't take your lead and advice from someone who's been out the whole season still making a ridiculous sum of money telling the rest of the league making considerably less than you to take a stand and sit out even more. Having money changes your perspective. Not having money changes your perspective. When you have people with money telling people without/with less money to do something in the name of a cause that involves the masses they are speaking to that they have to give up more money, buyer beware. The leaders aren't giving up anything and are typically a clanging gong. You, however, are giving up everything.
I'm glad Kyrie is gone from Boston. He just didn't fit in as a Celtic. Not as a player nor as a spokesperson for race relations nor a leader of the team. At least not as someone who is going to move things forward. But that's ok. A lot of people come to and go from the Celtics. The Boston Celtics were and are way ahead of Kyrie on race relations with many firsts that we all know about. I just hope he doesn't blowup the league. We'll see.
db
dbrown4- Posts : 5322
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by KyleCleric Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:44 pm
Isn't Kyrie not playing anyway because of injury?
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by RosalieTCeltics Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:07 am
He asked to be able to go with the Nets to the “bubble” and the league said NO. Now he wants to stop it all. You tell me, is this a retaliation move on his part? He was talking about the players starting their own league
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by dboss Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:15 pm
You should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
If the games begin it will not distract away from the social movement that is in full force. No different than turning off the goddamn depressing news and watching a movie. The problems do not go away but people need not be consumed.
The only reason players should not play is because of Covid 19 and living in a containment zone for up to 2.5 months. The only reason players should not play is because the NBA is prepared to violate CDC guidelines with respect to social distancing of players and staff who may come in contact with an infected person but not be required to quarantine themselves. The only reason players should not play is because their privileged status, as it relates to Covid 19, dwarfs the victims of this horrific disease.
So they will get tested every other day although positive results are masked as the infection can remain undetected for days.
This is an absurd reality. Everyday people that have to go to work do not have the luxury of regular testing.
The sheer magnitude of living through the convergence of three distinct but interrelated phenomena is the greatest challenge of our lifetime.
There are a multitude of ways that the NBA (owners, players, etc) and everyone else can participate in addressing the inequities associated with this convergence.
On the 24th, players are supposed to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down. We should respect their decisions.
If the games begin it will not distract away from the social movement that is in full force. No different than turning off the goddamn depressing news and watching a movie. The problems do not go away but people need not be consumed.
The only reason players should not play is because of Covid 19 and living in a containment zone for up to 2.5 months. The only reason players should not play is because the NBA is prepared to violate CDC guidelines with respect to social distancing of players and staff who may come in contact with an infected person but not be required to quarantine themselves. The only reason players should not play is because their privileged status, as it relates to Covid 19, dwarfs the victims of this horrific disease.
So they will get tested every other day although positive results are masked as the infection can remain undetected for days.
This is an absurd reality. Everyday people that have to go to work do not have the luxury of regular testing.
The sheer magnitude of living through the convergence of three distinct but interrelated phenomena is the greatest challenge of our lifetime.
There are a multitude of ways that the NBA (owners, players, etc) and everyone else can participate in addressing the inequities associated with this convergence.
On the 24th, players are supposed to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down. We should respect their decisions.
dboss- Posts : 18751
Join date : 2009-11-01
Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by tjmakz Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:38 pm
dbrown4 wrote:I actually like Kyrie taking this particular stand. I don't necessarily like how he's supporting his argument or all his reasons why. I've been against restarting the season from the get-go. The bubble idea looks good on paper. But it isn't going to work. Way too dangerous of an experiment when we are dealing with people's lives, in this case high valued, highly specially talented individuals. Especially given the COVID numbers are back up on the rise again especially in Florida. Kyrie is right to be scared for his teammates even though he won't be participating in the bubble. The dissenting players taking a stand is only the beginning.
The NBA may be blowing itself up but won't know it until it's too late. I stayed in my previous career of finance long enough to know that when you possess or own an asset like an NBA team, like any asset or any business, its value potentially comes from two sources: income and growth.
The league's income stream has been shut off for the last 3 months, one that had been going steady for quite some time. All businesses go through times when the income stream temporarily gets shut off/drops off for one reason or another in a capitalistic economic system. If you keep it shut off too long, it goes out of business. Not having a clear vision stops many businesses.
The NBA needs to take a hit here and shut down the season for good. Greed has taken over. They're putting their extremely valuable assets at huge risk in the short run for the almighty dollar. They still have those assets whether they are producing income currently or not. Better to pack it up what they still have in assets and look toward next year than to potentially blow up the league and have nothing.
The NBA needs to proceed very carefully here. If it starts to fractionalize itself with the income stream has been shut off, the other part of the total asset value, growth, begins to shrink as well. If it loses its vision of getting back on the court and re-opening the season, and begins to trying to add things to the pie to appease people, it could very well self-destruct.
Worcester, you hit on a great point. You can't take your lead and advice from someone who's been out the whole season still making a ridiculous sum of money telling the rest of the league making considerably less than you to take a stand and sit out even more. Having money changes your perspective. Not having money changes your perspective. When you have people with money telling people without/with less money to do something in the name of a cause that involves the masses they are speaking to that they have to give up more money, buyer beware. The leaders aren't giving up anything and are typically a clanging gong. You, however, are giving up everything.
I'm glad Kyrie is gone from Boston. He just didn't fit in as a Celtic. Not as a player nor as a spokesperson for race relations nor a leader of the team. At least not as someone who is going to move things forward. But that's ok. A lot of people come to and go from the Celtics. The Boston Celtics were and are way ahead of Kyrie on race relations with many firsts that we all know about. I just hope he doesn't blowup the league. We'll see.
db
It's interesting that Kyrie voted for the Orlando proposal, found out the league was not inviting injured players, then Kyrie changed his stance and thinks Orlando should be scrapped.
I am not sure a flat-earther should be a spokesman for players who have legitimate concerns about coronavirus, BLM or being away from their families.
As for Florida, yes, positive cases are higher, but hospitalizations and deaths are still low.
On Sunday and Monday we had a total of 14 coronavirus-related deaths here in Florida.
The majority of current deaths are inside prisons.
Most players want to play.
They want money for themselves and families, they want money to help black causes and they know that shutting down this season will lead to significantly less money for years to come for NBA players.
75% of NBA players are black while 23% are white.
I say, let them play, since the majority want to.
Baseball players want to get started.
Hockey players want to start again.
In my opinion, there will be more opportunities for NBA players to help make positive changes for black people if they are on TV playing and being interviewed, instead of staying home.
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by worcester Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:13 pm
NBA players can also do much to help white people too. I know my attitudes towards blacks were very positively affected by watching the NBA from 1956 onwards. I was nine then. Think of who most nine year olds look up to now, certainly not David Duke.
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by RosalieTCeltics Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:07 pm
TJ. You hit the nail on the head. Kyrie was involved in these negotiations, it was ok until they said he couldn’t go. He has a habit of using every excuse in the book to make himself look good
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by dbrown4 Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:26 am
Yep. Was not aware of Kyrie story there, just saw his actions and words. Thank you for enlightening me. I'll repeat...glad he's gone from Boston.
db
db
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by cowens/oldschool Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:26 am
dbrown4 wrote:Yep. Was not aware of Kyrie story there, just saw his actions and words. Thank you for enlightening me. I'll repeat...glad he's gone from Boston.
db
Me too, didn’t see this story covered at all on ESPN or NBA TV. It obviously may have been covered, but I missed it, one of the reasons I love this board. On Kyrie, not surprised by his actions, it’s always about him and has been his entire life. Strictly as a player, he is injury prone it seems forever and Nets will regret giving him that contract. Glad Perk called him out, Durant is another pussy on my shit list, those 2 guys are perfect for each other....
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
by RosalieTCeltics Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:16 am
The closer we get to this season opening, the more leary alot of players will become. Florida is a hot bed right now. I know that the NBA has all kinds of restrictions, rules and regulations regarding this, but, this season is already tainted, throw in the towel. But....it does not sound like Adam Silver is ready to do that just yet. Pressure from ??????
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Re: Report: NBA players who choose not to play will lose higher share of salary than suspended players
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