Cavalier Owner's Open Letter Ripping LJ

This discussion was not about the greatest TEAM but about the greatest PLAYER. Why do some try to mold a discussion to fit their opinion?

The discussion about the greatest team gets old quick because only Boston and LA are in that discussion.
I have seen lists or polls about the greatest player ever and I have seen the following players listed as the #1 player:
Bird, Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Jordan.
At least we can or should be able to have a discussion about this subject.

It is being closed minded when an opinion is stated similar to this one:

"Michael Jordan? Great, great player and ambassador for NBA. Greatest player ever? Certainly not, not even in the race vs. Russell. Not even open for discussion. (Or shouldn't be, should I say)"

Bob

thanks for noticing my mistake.
But this whole threat is a jole now anyway/

But I have come to expect this form time to time.

I corrected the post.

(i'd still like to see the rims raised a foot then see how much TALENT these players have) I think they might have to play like they did in the 5-'s and 60's perhaps.

beat

beat wrote:Bob

thanks for noticing my mistake.
But this whole threat is a jole now anyway/

But I have come to expect this form time to time.

I corrected the post.

(i'd still like to see the rims raised a foot then see how much TALENT these players have) I think they might have to play like they did in the 5-'s and 60's perhaps.

beat

beat,

FWIW, Red was opposed to raising the rims. He said it would give too much of an edge to the taller players.

bob

.

Interestingly, this thread was about Dan Gilbert's letter ripping LBJ. It has morphed into something else.

Nothing wrong with the discussion, but maybe it deserves its own thread instead of highjacking this one?

Just my 2c,

bob

.

Bob

I know Red was against it. But in line with the current athletic players raising it would be akin to making the guys actually play basketball as they did in the past to some degree perhaps. Good shooters would adapt and those like Howard would have to go back to the drawing board.

beat

An opinion isn't necessarily "closed-minded" if it is emphatic.

Some people look forward to seeing certain posters weigh in on topics. Therefore, it can happen that those posters feel obliged to explain their reasons for refraining from such discussions—including an opinion that the original topic is irrelevant.

As others have pointed out, the thread deviated (dramatically) from the original topic in the first place. (That happens and has almost always been condoned on this board.) Moving from the a discussion of the greatest player to a discussion of the greatest team is a minor deviation at most. It's certainly nothing to make a big deal of unless someone is frantically grasping at straws in a futile attempt to derail another's expressed opinions.

Sam

beat wrote:Bob

I know Red was against it. But in line with the current athletic players raising it would be akin to making the guys actually play basketball as they did in the past to some degree perhaps. Good shooters would adapt and those like Howard would have to go back to the drawing board.

beat

beat,

Players like Howard would become role players like Silas.

bob

.

Were Russell and Chamberlain good shooters?
I don't think they were but I could be wrong.

Russ shot 44% and Wilt shot 54% over their respective careers. Wilt dunked more, while Russ attempted more low-percentage shots (including 5-10 foot hooks with either hand).

Sam

Would Howard's offensive game be more compared to Wilt?
I don't remember ever seeing even a picture of Wilt shooting a jump shot.

One of Wilt's most frequently used shots was a fadeaway "jumper" off the board—usually from 6-9 feet away on the left side. It was more fadeaway than jumper. He was pretty deadly with it. But Russell realized that just pushing Wilt out as little as one foot from his comfort zone would make Wilt much less effective with that shot. And Russ would do it so subtly that Wilt wouldn't realize the difference and would become frustrated to almost the point of petulance. And his entire game would often suffer accordingly.

Sam

To get back near the subject of the thread, I forgot to mention an interview that I heard last week. Chris "Mad Dog" Russo was interviewing Joe Tait who is the long time announcer for the Cavs. Joe has been with the Cavs for 40 years.

Not once in the 7 years that LeBron was there did he take the time to have even 1 conversation with Joe. They were on planes together, etc and LeBron made no effort to talk to him. It was incredible how self absorbed LeBron was the whole time he was there.

I am posting a thread about this.

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?p=963195

Regarding Wilt's shooting, this video gives some idea of his prowess. Light years beyond Howard around the basket. The fadeaway I mentioned, finger rolls, hook shots, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d7jRhaSgBA

Sam

Boston still pushes people out farther then they want to be.
In the games at Boston, Odom and Gasol were getting into position 20 feet from the hoop. Gasol is deadly within 10 feet but he had to put the ball on the floor just to get into position.

Unfortunately for the Celtics, Gasol succeeded too often.

Sam

Shaq's shooting is light years better then Howard.
I can't image how frustrated Patrick Ewing is in working with Dwight for a number of years and seeing no improvement.

I find it funny when people say guys like Russ or Bird would get whipped bad because they couldnt handle the athleticism of todays players.

When I watch tape of Russ he flat owned people and when defending them got so far into their heads that they damn near just gave up. He did this with a body that was tailor made but mostly he did it by using his brain to learn their game. He knew what moves they would make and when they would make them...when they did he was right there waiting for them.

I have only watched tape though and I was not there so my opinion aint worth that much to people who were there.

With Bird his ball fakes and array of moves on offense were prone to making good defenders fall down. I remember he would make people lose their footing with his up and ball fakes and he had so many of them.

I guess my point is both guys were so up between the ears that it almot was not fair. Both guys would dominate the nba today. I think russ would flat eat dwight howard...he's box him out and block anything he threw up besides a dunk.

I dont think Jordan was the best ever for a few reasons.

1. the teams he met in the finals were weak.He never had to go through a guy like Bird or Magic in their primes and when he did he lost.

2. Until very late in his career he was a selfish ball player. He was one dimensional and ultimatley guardable because he didnt understand or execute team basketball. Even when he won it was more doing it himself than poetic inclusion of his team. He drew so much attention his teamates wound up with good shots sometimes with the game on the line but between the ears he wasnt in Bird or Magics orbit. I remember Bird and Magic knew exactly where their team liked to catch the ball inorder to shoot it and they would hit them right there again and again in stride not high not low perfect to catch and shoot.

Thats why that 80's ball was so passy and pretty because the ball moved though the air. Enter Jordan enter iso -hero ball.

I dont think Jordan was as good as Bird OR Magic none the less Bill Russ. That was my opinion when Jordan was playing it is my opinion now.

Sam wrote:Unfortunately for the Celtics, Gasol succeeded too often.

Sam

and unfortunately our best lowpost defender,a real Beast wasn't available for most of 6 and all of 7.

Actually, I thought Gasol was pretty much able to get to his spots throughout the series.

Sam

jeb,

Many good points.
I would disagree with your analysis about Jordan.
I think he was the most two dimensional player in NBA history.
He was named to the 1st team All-NBA 9 times and 1st team All-Defensive 9 times. If he didn't take two years off to play baseball, that would have been 11 times.
He definitely made the players around him better. Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, etc made a career out of hitting open shots that were passed to them from MJ.
He was also as tough as anyone who he played against. He had the killer instinct.
Because Jordan didn't play against a Bird or Jordan, that doesn't diminish his accomplishments. Chicago pretty much steamrolled the NBA for many years.
This is my opinion.

Russell would easily dominate Howard.
I have said for a couple of years that Howard is one of the dumbest players that I have ever seen. Not him as a man, but the way he plays is extremely unintelligent.
He takes himself out of games by fouling pg's 25 feet from the hoop or will throw elbows for no reason.
He also does not adjust to the defensive schemes of inferior players.

I said on a thread a year ago say Russell only won 7 or 8 he would still have to be considered the greatest,but 11 in 13 years.....come on!!!he was the difference in that team,without him might not have won one and as HoF players left they still kept winning,toward the end they were the older team,other teams had better talent,think anyone was gunning for them? and they still won.
An overwhelming case can be made easily that Russell was the greatest player and on the greatest team.We see the last two years how fragile a grip a great team can have over the competition,the refs,the injury bug,its damn not easy,alot of factors need to go your way.....and he led a team to 11 out of 13,nobody in our lifetime is gonna come close to matching that.

cow,

Is Phil Jackson the greatest coach ever?

tjmakz wrote:Russell would easily dominate Howard.
I have said for a couple of years that Howard is one of the dumbest players that I have ever seen. Not him as a man, but the way he plays is extremely unintelligent.
He takes himself out of games by fouling pg's 25 feet from the hoop or will throw elbows for no reason.
He also does not adjust to the defensive schemes of inferior players.

But Howard is bigger, stronger and plays above the rim more?!

touche bob...very good...

You guys have to know that the more extreme things that I say are to get a rise out of you guys...