Who Should Danny Pick With #14?

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Who Should Danny Pick With #14?

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Post by bobheckler Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:06 pm

I realize there already is a thread for the draft.  I also realize I've been saying we're not looking like Danny is going to keep #14, based upon the reports that he has already used up 3 of his maximum 10 visits with 2nd rounders and none with any players projected to go in the 10-20 range, nor in the 22-28 range.  And that's just the ones we know about.  A total of 7 visits for 2 picks doesn't sound like many to me, especially when one of them is a lottery pick.

Having said all this we can still play the parlor game of trying to guess who Danny will pick at 14, assuming he picks at 14 because, let's face it, none of us have any freaking idea what Danny is really thinking.  I don't think he'd tell his mother what he had for lunch that day.

Sooooo.  Let's assume that he's not drafting/trading all the way up to where he needs to be to draft a good big, like Okongwu.  That leaves wings and guards.  Once again, assuming Trader Danny isn't warming up his vocal chords, we're already up to our eyeballs in wings.  That leaves guards.

Who should it be?  The three names mentioned in the 14 range are Aaron Nesmith, Cole Anthony and Kira Lewis, Jr.  Every mock draft has Nesmith being gone before 14, but let's include him here because maybe that's who Danny is trading up to get.


Aaron Nesmith - 6'6", 210#, almost 21 years old sophomore.  SG.

Projections:
#13 - nbadraft.net
#12 - mynbadraft.com
#11 - tankathon.com

http://www.tankathon.com/players/aaron-nesmith

52% from 3 in college.
82% from the line.







Cole Anthony - 6'3", 185#, 20 years old.  PG.

Projections:
#12 - nbadraft.net
# - mynbadraft.com
# - tankathon.com

35% from 3.
75% from the line.
4.0 asts/game vs 3.4 TO/game







Kira Lewis, Jr. - 6'3", 170#, PG.

Projections:
#23 - nbadraft.net
#19 - mynbadraft.com
#22 - Tankathon.com

36% from 3
80% from the line.
5.2 assists/game vs 3.5 TO/game






No multiple choice, this is for the #14 pick only.  Vote Cancelling is allowed, so you can reconsider.


Bob


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Post by kdp59 Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:14 am

Package #14 with other assets to either move UP in the draft for Okongwu or a vet Big man.
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Post by sinus007 Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:51 am

Hi,
I'm with kdp.

AK
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Post by bobheckler Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:25 am

So, kdp and sinus are voting 'Other'.
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Post by dboss Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:17 pm

I have a guarantee for you.

We have no f**king idea who Danny will pick.

I agree with Bob that Danny will move #14 in a trade.  But it gets a lot more complicated than just trading a pick or picks.

The Celtics projected tax bill for 2020-21 is $16 million.  I do not see "The Owners"  throwing money at this team like they are attending some strip club event.  

The Celtics will be around $10 million over the apron.  That means no sign and trades.  If Kanter opts out that would put us at around $5 million over. According to Spotrac,  DT and JG have non guaranteed deals for $5 million and $1.5 million respectively.  The Celtics hold a 1.75 million club option on Semi.  Being over the apron also limits the MLE.

There are limited options for Danny to make a trade unless one of the core guys are heading out the door.  His 3 draft picks are around $7.6 million for salary purposes.   With Kanter opting out, we cannot trade him.  So if you were targeting a player who makes around $13 million per year,  you could trade DT and the 3 picks.  Capela will make $16 million next year so you could do the same but would need to add another player into the mix.  A 3rd team would probably come into the mix on a deal like that.

I do believe that the 14th pick could yield one player who could fill a need off the bench but not a center upgrade.  That means a center upgrade would need to come from a trade.  And the partial MLE could target a veteran rotation guy.

New roster top 10 trading all picks (except 2nd round flyer) and players

Capela
Hayward
Tatum
Brown
Kemba
Smart
Veteran Scorer
R Williams
Grant Williams
Wanamaker
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Post by bobheckler Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:03 pm

dboss wrote:I have a guarantee for you.

We have no f**king idea who Danny will pick.

I agree with Bob that Danny will move #14 in a trade.  But it gets a lot more complicated than just trading a pick or picks.

The Celtics projected tax bill for 2020-21 is $16 million.  I do not see "The Owners"  throwing money at this team like they are attending some strip club event.  

The Celtics will be around $10 million over the apron.  That means no sign and trades.  If Kanter opts out that would put us at around $5 million over.  According to Spotrac,  DT and JG have non guaranteed deals for $5 million and $1.5 million respectively.  The Celtics hold a 1.75 million club option on Semi.  Being over the apron also limits the MLE.

There are limited options for Danny to make a trade unless one of the core guys are heading out the door.  His 3 draft picks are around $7.6 million for salary purposes.   With Kanter opting out, we cannot trade him.  So if you were targeting a player who makes around $13 million per year,  you could trade DT and the 3 picks.  Capela will make $16 million next year so you could do the same but would need to add another player into the mix.  A 3rd team would probably come into the mix on a deal like that.

I do believe that the 14th pick could yield one player who could fill a need off the bench but not a center upgrade.  That means a center upgrade would need to come from a trade.  And the partial MLE could target a veteran rotation guy.

New roster top 10 trading all picks (except 2nd round flyer) and players

Capela
Hayward
Tatum
Brown
Kemba
Smart
Veteran Scorer
R Williams
Grant Williams
Wanamaker


Dboss,

I know you live in the Atlanta area.  What's the fascination with Capela?   I don't get it. He's a little taller than Theis, but not much.  Weighs the same.

He takes zero 3s.  Literally.  He has taken a grand total of 2 3pt fgas since he came into the league, NONE in the last 2 years.  Imagine that, a player on a Mike Antoni team that doesn't even take a 3!  That's pretty bad and is completely out of touch with the rest of the league and where it's going.  Theis took 96 3pt fgas last year and hit 33.3%.

He's a career 52.6% frito shooter.  Awful.  Theis, on the other hand, is a career 75% frito shooter.

Their eFG% is comparable, despite 72% of Capela's points coming from 0-3 feet.  He's a dunker, and that's great, but he's a one-trick pony.  His fg% from 3-10' is only 33.3%.  That's awful.

The stat that people look at with Capela is his shotblocking, pretty much nothing else.  He's a career 2.0 blocks/36mpg.  Last year he averaged 1.8 blocks/game, but he played 32.8mpg.  Theis averaged 1.9 blocks/36mpg, but he only played 24.1mpg.  So, almost the same efficiency, he just didn't play the same number of minutes; or did he?  In fact, Theis played MORE minutes than Capela.  Capela played 1279 minutes  in only 39 games.  Theis played 1566 minutes in 65 games.  So, who's more durable?

Lastly, their contracts.  Theis is a steal at $5M.  Capela will make 17.5M next year and is under contract for 2 more years after that, with increasing annual payments.

As I said, I just don't see where there's an upgrade here, but you watch him more than I do, I'm sure.

And you're absolutely right on your guarantee. We have NO idea what Danny will do.


Bob


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Post by dboss Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:18 pm

Bob as you know, Capela was injured this year and did not play.  He had a heal injury.  Here are 3 reason why I like him

#1 in his last year in Houston he averaged 16.6 PPG and 12.7 rebounds and 1.5 blocks.  DT had a career high at 9.2 and 6.6.  he had 1.3 blocks

#2  He is only 26 and he is 6' 10"  Two more inches matter just ask Grant.

#3  some stats are very irrelevant in this discussion.  Such as FT percentage and 3 point percentage.  DT had better numbers but DT only averaged 1.5 3 pointers and only 1.8 FTA.  Plus during the playoffs Theis sucked from deep bigtime  He only shot 4-26 or 15.4%.  Against the Heat he never hit a 3 and only took 2 of them.  

You get great value with DT at $5 million.  You get great value with Capela at $16 million next season.  (followed by $17.1 and 18.2)

The Celtics are going to need to invest more money in the center position.  

As far as Daniel Theis is concerned, I think he would a a great BU center but the bottom line has already been drawn.  Bam destroyed Daniel Theis in the playoff by averaging 21 point and 11 rebounds.  

The Celtics have never won a title without a high quality big.

A lot of people prefer Miles Turner.  I however do not.  We need a great rebounder in the middle.

My plan let's us keep all of our top core players and upgrades the 5 and adds to that core.
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Post by NYCelt Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:48 pm

Other.

Carey (C) #14, Stewart (C/PF) #26, Jones (PG) #30

OR in the unlikely event of a water landing and Anthony is still available at #14 select...

Anthony (PG) #14, Stewart (C/PF) #26, Bey (F) #30

OR if word out of Golden State that they're not taking a center is close to true

Package #14, #30, 2021 1st rounder and Brown (sorry, shoot me later), along with Theis and Kanter if needed and trade Charlotte in a package for whoever makes the money work and their #3. Select...

Wiseman (C/F) at #3 and Jones (PG) at #26
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Post by dboss Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:18 pm

NYCelt wrote:Other.

Carey (C) #14, Stewart (C/PF) #26, Jones (PG) #30

OR in the unlikely event of a water landing and Anthony is still available at #14 select...

Anthony (PG) #14, Stewart (C/PF) #26, Bey (F) #30

OR if word out of Golden State that they're not taking a center is close to true

Package #14, #30, 2021 1st rounder and Brown (sorry, shoot me later), along with Theis and Kanter if needed and trade Charlotte in a package for whoever makes the money work and their #3. Select...

Wiseman (C/F) at #3 and Jones (PG) at #26

You lost me with Brown heading out. Brown and Tatum should never be mentioned in conjunction with getting a high draft pick. At this point even in their young careers they should only be moved for an elite player. Wiseman is a high quality prospect at this point but Jaylen is already at an allstar level.

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Post by NYCelt Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:28 pm

dboss,

I told you that you could shoot me later.

To get value you have to give value.

In my mind, we need a big. I believe the only big in this draft worth trading up for is Wiseman and he goes top 3. I see no path to a top 3 pick unless we part with a highly valuable player. I don't think Hayward can or will go anywhere, so he remains as a wing, as do Tatum and Smart.

In a gamble that Wiseman is as can't miss as he's rated, you add an instant center along with Tatum, Walker, Hayward and Smart.

Sometimes you blow things up to get better. It's a purely hypothetical exercise, so I'm suggesting one route. It's also an alternative I would personally consider before the other options in this poll.

Now, in the real world of possibility, I just need to hope my Bills don't go and sign Le'Veon Bell. Wrong kind of blow things up.

Regards
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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:55 pm

NY Celt have you or anyone seen Wiseman play, he only played in a handful of games? If Warriors are even passing on him, that’s a bad sign. Jaylen has as we know unlimited potential, every pundit knows he’s an all star that didn’t get selected, that can hold his own and get the best of any wing in the L. He already has a collection of dunks on the top elite players in the L, we know he’s a gifted player with still more upside. Unless Wiseman has a body of work that shows he’s gonna be the next Olajuwon or Tim Duncan, I don’t know how anyone can do that trade.

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Post by kdp59 Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:40 am

Obviously I like Okongwu more than Wiseman, but I understand that can be personal preference.

but I wouldn't trade Brown or Tatum or Smart for either of them.

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Post by NYCelt Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:21 am

Cow,

I only saw Wiseman play on TV once, a loss vs Oregon.

He only played 3 games at Memphis because of being ruled ineligible over that deal with Hardaway paying him outside of NCAA rules.

What I saw in a small sample, and what I've read about how he has crushed it against all top NCAA competition he's faced in scrimmages and workouts is enough to convince me he starts from day 1 for most center-starved NBA teams. 7'1" and now somewhere between 240 and 250 lbs gets him into the size range he'll need.

Do I think the Celtics have any shot at him, or do I even really think they would ever consider making the deal needed to get him? No way. I just listed a deal to select him as my third choice alternative to the options in the poll. I also admittedly had some fun with the thought of heads exploding over my pointing out the fact that the only way to get what appears to be the best big in the draft would be to part with a significant asset. Yeah, I know, I'm such a tease.

In the realm of reality I'm sticking with Carey and/or Stewart.

Regards
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Post by bobheckler Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:12 am

NYCelt wrote:Cow,

I only saw Wiseman play on TV once, a loss vs Oregon.

He only played 3 games at Memphis because of being ruled ineligible over that deal with Hardaway paying him outside of NCAA rules.

What I saw in a small sample, and what I've read about how he has crushed it against all top NCAA competition he's faced in scrimmages and workouts is enough to convince me he starts from day 1 for most center-starved NBA teams. 7'1" and now somewhere between 240 and 250 lbs gets him into the size range he'll need.

Do I think the Celtics have any shot at him, or do I even really think they would ever consider making the deal needed to get him? No way. I just listed a deal to select him as my third choice alternative to the options in the poll. I also admittedly had some fun with the thought of heads exploding over my pointing out the fact that the only way to get what appears to be the best big in the draft would be to part with a significant asset. Yeah, I know, I'm such a tease.

In the realm of reality I'm sticking with Carey and/or Stewart.

Regards


NYCelt,

Why pick Carey with #14?

nbadraft.net has him going at #15. Ok, so in that case you would have to use 14 on him but...
mynbadraft.com has him going 27 and Tankathon has him going 30 (to us). Sports Illustrated has him 23rd.

Yahoo Sports doesn't have him in the 1st round, nor does NBC Sports, nor does Yardbarker.


So, there's one mock draft board that has him in play at #14, three that have him in the lower half of the 1st round and three that don't even draft him.

Based upon the film I've watched Carey is an old school center. Big and completely paint-bound. No outside game. Basically he's a young Enes Kanter and Enes Kanter, a #4 pick originally, is now a MLE journeyman in this NBA.

I'd say take Carey with with the later picks (if we still have them and, based upon who Danny has been interviewing it looks like we will, albeit Danny talking mostly to point guards). He's big and he'll work hard on the glass and that's what Kanter does for us. With a 26 or 30 pick he'll be cheaper than Kanter too, even at Kanter's current contract. Unfortunately, at 67%, he can't shoot fritos like Kanter. That is a big limiter for a player that plays in the paint and will get a lot of contact.

Another idea for a later 1st round pick is Aleksej Pokusevski. 7'0", 210#. A toothpick, for sure, but he's only 18 and is another Porzingis-like unicorn. Draft-and-stash him for a year or two, let him gain some more experience and put on some man weight, and then bring him over.


Bob


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Post by dboss Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:27 am

There are a lot of mock drafts out there but I really think that the Hoopshype Aggregate mock draft is the best.  It consolidates 8 different publications.

With that in mind, Carey would be a reach at #14 as his average draft position is currently #21,

https://hoopshype.com/2019/08/04/2020-nba-mock-draft-anthony-edwards-james-wiseman/

I think Boston could go after Stewart later in the draft.  The best move by Boston would be to package their picks and move up to select a guy that can contribute right away or package the picks along with pairing down all the clutter on this roster.

We need a shooter/scorer off the bench, an upgrade in the middle and a PG to groom for the future.  I think the most important add on is the bench guy who can provide scoring that this team lacks.  I think you can find that shooter in this draft.

Playing GM is a fun diversion.
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Post by kdp59 Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:29 am

dboss had brought up Jalen Smith from Maryland before and he certainly is someone to keep an eye IF Ainge keeps the #14 pick.

I would say Smith is more of a Ainge big man pick than Carey is in that he has a mid range shot at least.

Ainge is horrible at drafting old school type big men, so its good they are out of vouge now.

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Post by NYCelt Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:37 am

Bob,

I'm thinking Carey goes top 20, 25 tops, therefore my wish list at #14 since we don't pick again until 26. He is an old school center; a rim protector who can score, board and defend well in the paint, which is what I think is missing with the current roster. To me, he also fits that NBA-Ready label well. I've been on the big bandwagon with Carey and Stewart, thinking 14 and 26.

I'm always fascinated by how players move up and down the mock draft boards every year. Especially when they haven't played for an extended period, or are far between workouts. I see Cole Anthony skidding, supposedly because he didn't have the season he was expected to have. Mind-boggling to me, is that his skid down the mock boards started several months after his season ended. Kind of like St. Christopher losing sainthood a few centuries after his death and canonization, or Pluto losing it's status as a planet. What exactly happened while nothing was happening?

So, anyway, I put 'em where I think they should go, often ignoring the mock boards. I sometimes think a number of the writers on the boards haven't sat down to catch a game, on TV or in person, when their commentary bears little resemblance to what you see. I hit a pick right about every decade, so I think my record is probably about the same as most of theirs.

Regards
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Post by dboss Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:48 am

kdp59 wrote:dboss had brought up Jalen Smith from Maryland before and he certainly is someone to keep an eye IF Ainge keeps the #14 pick.

I would say Smith is more of a Ainge big man pick than Carey is in that he has a mid range shot at least.

Ainge is horrible at drafting old school type big men, so its good they are out of vouge now.


I could live with a Jalen Smith selection as he checks a lot of boxes (defense, rebounding, shot blocking and perimeter shooting) He is not a center at this stage but if he gets stronger he could get us minutes at the 5. IF GH leaves he would be my choice. You could put him at 4 and let Tatum move back to the 3.

The biggest problem with this roster is the fact that there are way too many players in the developmental stage. In some respects a good part of this roster is what you would expect to see on a G league team. There are simply not enough minutes for all these guys to develop.

Danny has to pair this roster down. If there is a guy at 10 that has a high probability to fill a need, Danny should trade up to get him. Danny needs to find a way to move VP. He is taking up a roster spot for no good reason.

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Post by bobheckler Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:55 am

NYCelt wrote:Bob,

I'm thinking Carey goes top 20, 25 tops, therefore my wish list at #14 since we don't pick again until 26. He is an old school center; a rim protector who can score, board and defend well in the paint, which is what I think is missing with the current roster. To me, he also fits that NBA-Ready label well. I've been on the big bandwagon with Carey and Stewart, thinking 14 and 26.

I'm always fascinated by how players move up and down the mock draft boards every year. Especially when they haven't played for an extended period, or are far between workouts. I see Cole Anthony skidding, supposedly because he didn't have the season he was expected to have. Mind-boggling to me, is that his skid down the mock boards started several months after his season ended. Kind of like St. Christopher losing sainthood a few centuries after his death and canonization, or Pluto losing it's status as a planet. What exactly happened while nothing was happening?

So, anyway, I put 'em where I think they should go, often ignoring the mock boards. I sometimes think a number of the writers on the boards haven't sat down to catch a game, on TV or in person, when their commentary bears little resemblance to what you see. I hit a pick right about every decade, so I think my record is probably about the same as most of theirs.

Regards


NYCelt,

St. Christopher is/was the Patron Saint of travelers. He just kept moving, it's what he does, no surprise here.

And a giveaway, for all those early adopters and bandwagoners, should have been that Pluto was a dog. Water, especially when drunk out of the toilet bowl, tends to find its level.


Bob


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Post by dboss Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:01 pm

NYCelt wrote:Bob,

I'm thinking Carey goes top 20, 25 tops, therefore my wish list at #14 since we don't pick again until 26. He is an old school center; a rim protector who can score, board and defend well in the paint, which is what I think is missing with the current roster. To me, he also fits that NBA-Ready label well. I've been on the big bandwagon with Carey and Stewart, thinking 14 and 26.

I'm always fascinated by how players move up and down the mock draft boards every year. Especially when they haven't played for an extended period, or are far between workouts. I see Cole Anthony skidding, supposedly because he didn't have the season he was expected to have. Mind-boggling to me, is that his skid down the mock boards started several months after his season ended. Kind of like St. Christopher losing sainthood a few centuries after his death and canonization, or Pluto losing it's status as a planet. What exactly happened while nothing was happening?

So, anyway, I put 'em where I think they should go, often ignoring the mock boards. I sometimes think a number of the writers on the boards haven't sat down to catch a game, on TV or in person, when their commentary bears little resemblance to what you see. I hit a pick right about every decade, so I think my record is probably about the same as most of theirs.

Regards

No mock draft is 100% accurate. For example, Hoops hype AGG now has Anthony at #2 and Mannion at #6. These mocks do not consider team needs. Teams will have guys ranked according to what they need. Something definitely looks off on the Hoopshype one. It really does not make a lot of sense. With that in mind I withdrawn my previous statement that it is good. I was wrong!

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Post by cowens/oldschool Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:11 pm

It’s a crapshoot!!!

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Post by NYCelt Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:13 pm

bobheckler wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Bob,

I'm thinking Carey goes top 20, 25 tops, therefore my wish list at #14 since we don't pick again until 26. He is an old school center; a rim protector who can score, board and defend well in the paint, which is what I think is missing with the current roster. To me, he also fits that NBA-Ready label well. I've been on the big bandwagon with Carey and Stewart, thinking 14 and 26.

I'm always fascinated by how players move up and down the mock draft boards every year. Especially when they haven't played for an extended period, or are far between workouts. I see Cole Anthony skidding, supposedly because he didn't have the season he was expected to have. Mind-boggling to me, is that his skid down the mock boards started several months after his season ended. Kind of like St. Christopher losing sainthood a few centuries after his death and canonization, or Pluto losing it's status as a planet. What exactly happened while nothing was happening?

So, anyway, I put 'em where I think they should go, often ignoring the mock boards. I sometimes think a number of the writers on the boards haven't sat down to catch a game, on TV or in person, when their commentary bears little resemblance to what you see. I hit a pick right about every decade, so I think my record is probably about the same as most of theirs.

Regards


NYCelt,

St. Christopher is/was the Patron Saint of travelers.  He just kept moving, it's what he does, no surprise here.

And a giveaway, for all those early adopters and bandwagoners, should have been that Pluto was a dog.  Water, especially when drunk out of the toilet bowl, tends to find its level.


Bob


.

Bob,

Excellent response to my question 'What exactly happened while nothing was happening?'

I like it.

Regards
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Post by kdp59 Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:09 pm

Dboss,

I am trying to learn to NOT see them as Center or Power forwards anymore, simply as "big men".

I still see them as conventional big men (or Power bigs) and modern big men (more mobile, ability to stretch the floor).

I have been un-successful in my endeavors to date, I should note.
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