Re: Haywood signs with the Hornets!

by **Vankisa** Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:19 pm

Good points Bob, but I think you are being too generous with the slack. It is Danny's job to know his market is it not? Every businessman can tell you playing "waiting games" in volatile markets/conditions is a very risky move. If there really was an offer for Turner + a bag of chips and he was sitting on it, it is a major f* up.

This entire Hayward episode is a complete embarrassment for Danny Ainge regardless in my opinion. When did he decide to leave anyway? Was that again unknown to Danny and was there a plan at all? I mean to lose a third all star in as many years is bad in any conceivable spin we can think of. And most franchises would be looking at years of rebuild after such a scenario. We have such good starting depth that we are going to be fine in that regard so some slack for his previous moves, but those moves are now 6-7 years past. With regard to building a contender Danny has dropped the ball the last couple of years. We are further from being contenders right now than we were in the summer. We are further back if you think about it than in Tatum's rookie year as well.

Also now how many options are let to him to even spend the MLE on after this entire fiasco?

Another point with Nesmith - I thought the genral opinion was that we relied too much on too young players to really be contenders and we needed more veterans to fill those important back up roles not more rookies Sad

.

Can we still get Baynes or WCS?

by **Ktron** Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:56 pm

bobheckler wrote:COPIED FROM THE OTHER HAYWARD THREAD FOR CONSOLIDATION REASONS.

Upon further consideration I'm giving Danny a little more slack. Let's be honest here, would Boston have offered close to max money ($30M/year, 4 years) to a 31 year old player with Hayward's injury history? WOULD YOU if you were Danny? If Horford was offered "Crazy Money" then this contract is certifiable.. And Tatum is about to receive a Supermax extension too.

Let's assume Danny pulled the trigger on the Indy deal as offered (assuming that wasn't sll BS in the first place and we're stewing over a phantom) and didn't even try to negotiate. That would require Hayward's agreement, right, because he opted out? Who in their right mind would accept $20M/year, $80M total when he could have a $30M/$120M one?

Montrezl Harris turning down more money in Charlotte to sign with the Lakers is what caused this. It freed up the money. We were beaten by "The LeBron Effect". This is why, if I had to, I would trade Jaylen, whom I love, to Milwaukee for Giannis.

Danny thought he had time. He didn't know Harris would turn down more money from Charlotte. Credit to MJ for the quick pivot away from Harris to make Hayward an offer he couldn't refuse. Let's remember, free agency started 5pm EST YESTERDAY. This has all happened in 22 hours, from start to signature.

Welcome to the NBA, Mr. Nesmith. I hope you're ready because our need for a dead-eyed shooter just exploded. It would have been better if you had the time to get used to the temperature but now you're just going to get thrown into the deep end of the pool right away.

I also think this upped Wanny's odds of being resigned. Not only has a roster spot recently opened but, coincidentally, so has the need for a reliable veteran ballhandler. Somebody besides Smart needs to be able to feed the shooters.

Bob

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Some good points Bob except “Danny thought he had time”. That’s no excuse. Danny has been at this for quite some time. He got fleeced by Pelinka (whatever his name ) and/or Jordan and Haywards camp? I’m not about to cut him any slack on that particular point. I’d like to see him tell someone like Joe Lacob some shit like”I thought I had time”.

by **bobheckler** Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:04 pm

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 12 minutes ago
Per multiple league sources, a Celtics/Hornets sign-and-trade involving Gordon Hayward is still being discussed.

Bob

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by **willjr** Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:25 pm

bobheckler wrote:Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 12 minutes ago
Per multiple league sources, a Celtics/Hornets sign-and-trade involving Gordon Hayward is still being discussed.
Bob

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by **dboss** Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:18 pm

willjr wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 12 minutes ago
Per multiple league sources, a Celtics/Hornets sign-and-trade involving Gordon Hayward is still being discussed.
Bob

.

My Notes man that is like going out to eat and not having enough money to pay for the check.
This deal was announced prematurely. I would let the hornets and Hayward stew

Gordon Hayward on Saturday bid farewell to Boston after opting out of his player option with the Celtics and signing a four-year, $120 million deal with the Charlotte Hornets.

The only issue? Charlotte simply doesn’t have the cap space for that contract. Even despite reports of it waiving Nic Batum and using the NBA’s stretch provision to spread his cap implications over the next few seasons.

But for Celtics fans who were upset that president of basketball operations Danny Ainge didn’t get anything in return for Hayward, hold that thought.

According to Adam Himmelsbach of The Boston Globe, a sign-and-trade around the forward still is being discussed.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:45 pm

Maybe the owner is now questioning the move. I rooted hard for GH when he was here, terrible injury, and since then he has never been the same first option all star caliber player. He had some good moments playing off 2 J’s, but he really can’t carry a team night after night IMHO. As much as I liked him and rooted for him, NO WAY would I give him 120 mill for 4 years. Sorry I can’t do that for an injury prone 31 year old wing.

by **dboss** Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:12 pm

We already used the non tax payer MLE to sign TT.

Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception $9,258,000
($9,258,000)

I see no reason to reverse what has happened for us today. GH and Charlotte did not give a damn about us getting some compensation.

Things did not go the way we thought they might but the Celtics still come away with both feet on the ground.

In the meantime GH is in limbo until the Hornets figure out how to free up enough CAP space to sign him.

by **worcester** Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:16 pm

Rock, I do think Indy offered Turner and McDermott for Gordy who was ready to do a deal to sign with Indy. Then MJ found he had more money available when Harris signed instead with LA, and he calked Gordy with an offer Hayward could not refuse.

We would be better off with Turner than TT, but Danny did the best he could after a massive Flip up.
Philly and Miami are stronger. Celtics, meh. Probably a bit weaker without Gordon. But we still have a chance to win this season. Let the games begin. As for replacing Danny, won't happen this year I bet.

by **NYCelt** Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:53 pm

Who knows? Maybe karma has decided to pay a small gift back to the Celtics to make up for some of the crap she’s pulled in the past.

Maybe a little something will swing our way to settle this.

by **worcester** Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:02 am

Maybe NYCelt, maybe.

by **kdp59** Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:25 am

hang on there....

Adam Himmelsbach: Per multiple league sources, a Celtics/Hornets sign-and-trade involving Gordon Hayward is still being discussed. – via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach

Terry Rozier liked this photo about him potentially being traded to the Clippers. I had heard rumblings of this the other day, but didn't think it was true.

“Sometimes you get shipped.”

Terry Rozier appears to have his bags packed after the Hornets drafted LaMelo Ball and agreed to sign Gordon Hayward.

hmmmmm...maybe Ainge can get something from the Clippers or Hornets still?

by **worcester** Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am

This is how we get Kawhi after all?

by **bobheckler** Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:33 pm

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/11/25/report-celtics-hornets-working-on-sign-and-trade-for-gordon-hayward/

Report: Celtics, Hornets Working On Sign-And-Trade For Gordon Hayward

November 25, 2020 at 11:25 am

BOSTON (CBS) — Gordon Hayward is a member of the Charlotte Hornets in spirit only. Officially, he remains in limbo.

That’s because the Hornets did not have the proper amount of salary cap room when they agreed to a four-year, $120 million contract. Though Charlotte tried to finagle Nic Batum’s contract, it seems now like the Celtics will indeed get something in return for the loss of Hayward.

ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski reported Wednesday that the Celtics and Hornets continue to work on a sign-and-trade, which would give the Celtics a trade exception.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Sources: Boston and Charlotte have worked on a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward that would land Celtics a trade exception, but Hornets have first been trying to find a third team for Nic Batum's $27M contract to see if there's a way to avoid waiving-and-stretching his money.
8:01 AM · Nov 25, 2020

Wojanrowski noted that one way or another, Hayward will end up in Charlotte for the agreed-upon deal.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Whatever the final details, Gordon Hayward is headed to Charlotte on a four-year, $120M contract.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Sources: Boston and Charlotte have worked on a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward that would land Celtics a trade exception, but Hornets have first been trying to find a third team for Nic Batum's $27M contract to see if there's a way to avoid waiving-and-stretching his money.
8:02 AM · Nov 25, 2020

Hayward, 30, opted out of his final year in Boston, after spending three seasons with the Celtics.

Bob
MY NOTE: Since MJ is not giving up Graham or Ball, and I don't want Batum or Rozier, there really isn't anybody on that roster that interests me, so I'm very happy to take a TPE and use it on one or more players over the next year. Danny, once again, making lemonade out of lemons.

TPEs last 1 year from issue date. A benefit of 2020 is that this free agency season is later than usual. That means our TPE will not expire before the next year's season opening. We might be better positioned as teams find new talent, begin their rebuild and jettison older, more expensive veterans (which we need). I don't know how we'll do this season with the loss of a key player like Gordon but this would take some of the sting out of it and could set us up nicely in the future.

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by **worcester** Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:37 pm

Lemonade...too bad Meadowlark Lemon is not around anymore.

by **worcester** Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:27 pm

Sure looks like we will get the TPE from MJ for Gordy.

Trader Danny!

by **Ktron** Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:34 pm

How much is the TPE worth? Is it 5 or 9 mil? Either way, we should get something decent after all

by **bobheckler** Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:38 pm

Ktron wrote:How much is the TPE worth? Is it 5 or 9 mil? Either way, we should get something decent after all

ktron,

Per NBC Sports:

"The Celtics technically sign Hayward to a four-year deal worth $30 million per year, then trade him to the Hornets. In return, Boston gets a $30 million TPE, which the team can use at any point in the next year to spend on a player it acquires via trade or free agency."

That is the biggest TPE I've ever heard of, by far! We could trade for a star with that. I mean a legit star.

Bob

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by **worcester** Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:45 pm

That is Trader Danny to the max. All is forgiven Danny.

by **Ktron** Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:03 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ktron wrote:How much is the TPE worth? Is it 5 or 9 mil? Either way, we should get something decent after all

ktron,

Per NBC Sports:

"The Celtics technically sign Hayward to a four-year deal worth $30 million per year, then trade him to the Hornets. In return, Boston gets a $30 million TPE, which the team can use at any point in the next year to spend on a player it acquires via trade or free agency."

That is the biggest TPE I've ever heard of, by far! We could trade for a star with that. I mean a legit star.

Bob

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30 mil?? Whoa. If this closes all is forgiven ole Danny boy!

by **dboss** Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:20 pm

I think this is a little more complicated than GH to the Hornets and TPE to Boston.

The Hornets can stretch the Batum contract for 3 years but the CAP hit would be $9 million per year. I read that they are looking for a 3rd team to take on the bad contract but the cost would be draft pick (s)

The TPE must be used in a 12 month window. To use it now would put us right back in the luxury tax penalty if it was used at acquire a player whose salary pushes us over the top. We would not have to send out any salary up to the TPE amount to do the transaction.

Overall if Danny gets a $30 million TPE it does not impact the team in any way unless he actually uses it.

If a team out there has a guy that they are not going to resign but Boston could use them now then the TPE could be very useful. Or if a player is waived by a team the TPE could be used to sign them.

The Celtics want to avoid being a tax payer this year.

by **worcester** Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:27 pm

Yes...Danny can use this next season.

by **Ktron** Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:14 pm

Sorry dboss, I’m confused. Are you saying if we use the 30 mil to acquire a player this season we are in the luxury tax but if we use it next season we are not?

by **gyso** Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:34 pm

We cannot use the TPE this season. We used the non-taxpayer MLE so we are capped for this season.

We have 12 months to use it from the day it is created. Assuming a normal end to this season, we would have the entire off season and more to use it.

Next season we probably will be taxpayers, so it is great to have that in our back pocket.

It ain't ours yet, but it would be great if it was.

by **worcester** Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Ktron, I believe that is the case.

by **Vankisa** Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:50 pm

A 30M TP heh... It is a nice way to land on your feet I would have to say.

This does not absolve Danny Ainge, in my eyes at least, of the fact that he MUST have known what was coming, that Hayward was leaving. What was his PLAN? The other fact still remains Danny got nothing for GH, for Al Horford and for KI. And even more for me, it is not a healthy management to trade/acquire Star players and to have ALL of them say at the end of their contracts "No, I do not want to be here". We all know there are mitigating circumstances, but aren't there always?

Anyway, I am happy Danny Ainge got LUCKY (let us not kid ourselves what happened here) that MJ seems to not have counted the money in his pocket before buying the new car and is potentially getting an absurd TPE. That in addition to the nice quick turnaround to make the best out of his available assets after Hayward told him he is going to Charlotte makes him look much better than he did several days ago Smile

Not sure we can get a star player with the TPE, but who knows. Normally even if we have it a team will not just let one of their stars walk away for nothing. And can we use it at all this season?

But it is an unlocked door that can lead to great opportunities at least during offseason next year. A great asset to have for sure!

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