A little reality check

HARDEN:

NBA Most Valuable Player (2018)
9× NBA All-Star (2013–2021)
6× All-NBA First Team (2014, 2015, 2017–2020)
All-NBA Third Team (2013)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2012)
3× NBA scoring champion (2018–2020)
NBA assists leader (2017)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2010)

IRVING:

NBA champion (2016)
7× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017–2019, 2021)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Second Team (2019)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
50–40–90 club (2021)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2013)

DURANT:

2× NBA champion (2017, 2018)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2017, 2018)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2014)
11× NBA All-Star (2010–2019, 2021)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2012, 2019)
6× All-NBA First Team (2010–2014, 2018)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2016, 2017, 2019)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2008)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2008)
4× NBA scoring champion (2010–2012, 2014)
50–40–90 club (2013)

Who needs a reality check?

Do you think we do not know who they are?

I want to hip check and get tangled with Durant and throw him on the floor

Durant’s 2 time champion should have an asterisk

What player blows a 3-1 lead in a CF and goes to team up with that team that just beat them that happens to have the best regular season record of all time? Guys a fu..in pussy that has been bad for the game, he left GS because he wasn’t getting any respect, all fans and national pundits were still ripping him for him being a coward to his franchise. I’ll always have more respect and love for a role player like Perk and Paul Silas than this pus.ysh.t !!!

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Do you think we do not know who they are?

Based on some of the comments I read I think maybe we forget. Name another team that had three players with comparable resumes. Any time a team like this is assembled it's because superstars were looking into the future of their careers ending and wanting rings more than money. The only thing that should stop the Nets from a ring is injury or ego. If they stay whole and sane (yes you, KI) there's no change we are likely to make to our staff or roster that will change that soon. We can get better but we're not going to match that next year or possibly the next.

I think what ATCROSS is trying to say is "they are immensely talented", and he's right.  We're not playing a team of Cinderellas here, a gang of young inexperienced ingenues.  I've been calling for more veteran help for this team for a while.  Our two big stars, and we only have one of them playing, is only 23.  We're going up against a team with two World Champions in their starting lineup and that is healthy. They are a better team than us and have been a better team than us all year even when we had Jaylen. They gave up a ton of assets, including a very good Caris LeVert and Jarrett Allen, for Harden. Would we have even given up The Time Lord for Harden, much less RWill and, say, Marcus Smart? How about RWill and Fournier? Anybody? That's why they're stacked.


Bob


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bobheckler wrote:I think what ATCROSS is trying to say is "they are immensely talented", and he's right.  We're not playing a team of Cinderellas here, a gang of young inexperienced ingenues.  I've been calling for more veteran help for this team for a while.  Our two big stars, and we only have one of them playing, is only 23.  We're going up against a team with two World Champions in their starting lineup and that is healthy.  They are a better team than us and have been a better team than us all year even when we had Jaylen.  They gave up a ton of assets, including a very good Caris LeVert and Jarrett Allen, for Harden.  Would we have even given up The Time Lord for Harden, much less RWill and, say, Marcus Smart?  How about RWill and Fournier?  Anybody?  That's why they're stacked.


Bob


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Exactly. This is a team that was put together as a one shot, go for the gold. Considering the personalities, we know that was risky. There's none of the three that I would personally want as a Celtic (though that always changes should they actually come to us. ;-)) And I was serious with the question about another team that ever had three players with comparable resumes. KG, PP, and RA were close but not quite that good (remember, I'm just talking resumes.) So name another team as stacked on paper. Building a team in consideration of the league trend in style and talent is good. But trying to build a team to match one other super team is very risky. Our young players could be just as good in maybe three years. I would prefer to remain patient.

Of the three Harden has proven to be the dependable team first player. I was surprised how he was dastardly traitorous to the Rockets but then played team ball for the Nets.

I will predict with great accuracy that if we don't beat BKN, MIL will. The mighty and powerful OZ has spoken!!

db

Prima Donnas, bobh, not Cinderellas!!

db

atcross wrote:

bobheckler wrote:I think what ATCROSS is trying to say is "they are immensely talented", and he's right.  We're not playing a team of Cinderellas here, a gang of young inexperienced ingenues.  I've been calling for more veteran help for this team for a while.  Our two big stars, and we only have one of them playing, is only 23.  We're going up against a team with two World Champions in their starting lineup and that is healthy.  They are a better team than us and have been a better team than us all year even when we had Jaylen.  They gave up a ton of assets, including a very good Caris LeVert and Jarrett Allen, for Harden.  Would we have even given up The Time Lord for Harden, much less RWill and, say, Marcus Smart?  How about RWill and Fournier?  Anybody?  That's why they're stacked.


Bob


.

Exactly. This is a team that was put together as a one shot, go for the gold. Considering the personalities, we know that was risky. There's none of the three that I would personally want as a Celtic (though that always changes should they actually come to us. ;-)) And I was serious with the question about another team that ever had three players with comparable resumes. KG, PP, and RA were close but not quite that good (remember, I'm just talking resumes.) So name another team as stacked on paper. Building a team in consideration of the league trend in style and talent is good. But trying to build a team to match one other super team is very risky. Our young players could be just as good in maybe three years. I would prefer to remain patient.

They are a magnificent team on paper and on the court.  That we already know.

Magnificent in terms of offense but their defense is not close to being great.  The other thing has to do with longevity.  

When the Celtics brought the big 3 together for the 2007-08 championship run PP was 30, KG was 31 and RA was 32.   The Nets 3 stars are KI at 29, JH at 30 and KD at 32.  The window for the Nets is not open for long.  As stars age and injuries pile up it really impacts their ability to win.

Danny realized that a longer timeline was a much better solution.  He did trade for KI and also courted Kevin Durant and I think he also had the hots for AD.  Sometimes things work out well although you may not realize it right away.  Now that the J's have reached allstar status and are still so very young he is not going to move either of them for another star player.  

Danny has flipped his roster over at least 3 times since the rebuild began and he is behind the 8 ball because of a few errors in the draft and a few questionable FA signings.  The 3rd really talented core player is 23 year old Robert Williams.  The Celtics need him to stay healthy.  

I think we may be 2 more years away from surrounding Jayson and Jaylen with  the correct complimentary pieces.  Rookies PP and AN appear to have enough talent to develop into solid rotational players.  RL remains a question mark.  KW is a guy that Danny should never have signed.  We need #1 a floor general.  Another center and another PF.  (goodbye Semi, goodbye Grant, Goodbye Carson and Tremont.  Goodbye Tacko, goodbye Kornet and goodbye Parker.  All these goodbyes will not happen right away.  

Make no mistake about it,  Danny has to flip this roster over once again.  EF is probably gone too.  If Celtics fans are patient then they may be rewarded if Danny Ainge gets it right next time.

That's a lot of flipping, dboss, but I'm afraid you are correct here. In the soon upcoming off season, Boston needs to determine the degree of actual slippage. I plant my flag on the fact that other things are equal and many a team passed us by on their way up and our way down in similar situations. Hence I'm going for the semi-nuclear (Brad or Danny dismissal) or full nuclear (Brad and Danny dismissals) options once the last loss occurs here shortly. I will be stupefied if anything less happens.

db

Bulls had to do the same thing with Jordan for years until they got the supporting cast right....we need some vets

dbrown4 wrote:That's a lot of flipping, dboss, but I'm afraid you are correct here.  In the soon upcoming off season, Boston needs to determine the degree of actual slippage.  I plant my flag on the fact that other things are equal and many a team passed us by on their way up and our way down in similar situations.  Hence I'm going for the semi-nuclear (Brad or Danny dismissal) or full nuclear (Brad and Danny dismissals) options once the last loss occurs here shortly.  I will be stupefied if anything less happens.

db    

Hey db

One overlooked factor is the improvement of so many teams.  The ever growing impact of 3 point shooting and the cookie cutter style of play.

Injuries, way too many players to develop, the need for a true floor general and a legit center rotation all factor in.

Most of the issues are Ainge related but the defensive decline is on Brad.  I do hope that the remainder of the playoffs will be a rediscovery of the team's defensive significance.  Bad habits tend to fester and it is up to the coach to curb his team by any means necessary.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Bulls had to do the same thing with Jordan for years until they got the supporting cast right....we need some vets

Drawing high caliber vets is not easy if they see themselves ending up in the shadow of young Turks. Hayward saw himself becoming the scoring fourth option. Once they become star vets they have a lot more control over where they play and why. Miami, Knicks, Nets, Lakers, and Clippers have the added attractiveness of a big market, glamour location. But if they don't have the control, then the team that owns them does and the trade price could be too high, unless we want to give away the farm and go all in. Unless the other team is simply shedding salary, they're not going to settle for our end of the bench throwaways and non-lottery picks. It is, as they say, complicated.

Everything in life is complicated, they are out there, who’s to say they wouldn’t like playing with some young studs. Wizards have 3 good/decent 5’s Len, Lopez and Gafford, do they need 3? Again they are out there?

Atcross 

Can you define what you mean by high caliber vets?

Do you consider PJ Tucker or Bobby Portis to fall under that category?

Portis has the size, but not the character.

worcester wrote:Portis has the size, but not the character.

Where in the character category does Portis fall short?

Ktron wrote:

worcester wrote:Portis has the size, but not the character.

Where in the character category does Portis fall short?

ktron,

How about punching his teammate, Nikola Mirotic, in the face?


Bob


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dboss wrote:Atcross 

Can you define what you mean by high caliber vets?

Do you consider PJ Tucker or Bobby Portis to fall under that category?

I'm not into scouting players from other teams but generally I would say no. Tucker is old. Portis has talent but can't seem to stick with a team. Neither of them have anything on their resume that says high caliber to me. Who do they replace in the rotation? Are we talking about game changers of just shuffling the roster deck?

They seem like the type of players that can enhance a roster.  

There are only so many Allstars to go around.  Most good teams have good role players.

I agree that the Nets are stacked pretty good. Looks like Kyrie lit the flame for the fans with his comments last night. It will be interesting to see just what happens Friday night.

I was disappointed the way the Celtics came out last night, but no one could stop Harris the way he was shooting, but no one, not even Tatum, played like this was the playoffs. Smart tried, but it was too late to make a dent. When you are down like that, matching baskets gets you no where.

Durant needs to cut fingernails. This is not the first time he has scratched someone's eye. I was almost overjoyed to watch Fournier stand up to Durant. At least a little fire was in him.

just ramblings, really, I am extremely disappointed that they are not even giving these guys a fight. I hope those 25% fan crowd on Friday doesn't disappoint Kyrie

bobheckler wrote:

Ktron wrote:

worcester wrote:Portis has the size, but not the character.

Where in the character category does Portis fall short?

ktron,

How about punching his teammate, Nikola Mirotic, in the face?


Bob


.

That definitely qualifies, ouch!