There's no doubt now: Brad Stevens was fired as Celtics coach

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Exactly…..nice pat on the back huh?

I read yesterday that Zarren would be named General Manager, Brad is President.  

Too much……I am tired of it all.

Worcester…..if you ever wanted a great Italian meal…..where would you go?  Me?  My Grandmother and my Mom……now, me

112288 wrote:The articles seems plausible as to how Brad became the new President.  Ownership chose the younger person to keep.  Danny had a limited amount of time left as President based on his age and health.

The problem that caused this souring of the organization and player rebellion I believe was caused by Danny stacking the team with too many young players  and not enough veterans who would have kicked some butt if these players went off the reservation and were not listening to the coach.   I may be wrong, but I would be willing to bet that the trouble makers could 3 maybe 4  guys, namely Walker, Tatum, and Brown.

You may ask why include Tatum and Brown?  Because they are young rising stars and if I were Blake Griffin and interested in signing with Boston, who would I approach to ask if it was a good move?  The veteran Walker or two stars in the league - Brown and Tatum, not Taco nor Langford or the rest of the team.

Now it becomes clear why Gordon Haywood left, and it was not about not liking the City of Boston. I was what he saw in the locker room.

The Celtics have a real problem on their hands with both Tatum and Brown.  They are locked up with big money contracts and they are part of the elite players in the league.  At some point, and I do not care who you are, your ego begins to grow based on all the superlatives thrown at these players by the press each day.   Problem is, these players begin to believe they are bigger then the team, the coach and in some cases the NBA.

One thing that struck me as being very odd in this intense societal atmosphere of today, was when I heard that some of the players including Tatum wanted a black coach behind the bench for Boston. I thought the criteria for selecting a coach was selecting the best qualified person who exhibited the best resume of experience regardless of skin color or religious affiliation.  This societal upheaval being interjected into sports I believe will eventually destroy the league.

May I add, who the hell is Tatum and where is his deep knowledge and experience in basketball strategy and running a team!  This  guy is just beginning to understand the game!  His only attribute is his physical skill set and his coordination to shoot a basketball.

May I digress.   Why would ANY FRANCHISE IN ANY SPORT not want to select the best qualified candidate to lead their team as coach regardless of skin color or religious beliefs.  The Celtic broke all barriers by selecting Russell as the first black coach in the league, and over many decades also selected black coaches as well.  

Ainge did so with Doc Rivers and supported him through tough times before winning the championship.

Someone coming in better take control of the team from the get go and command respect or this upcoming season is going to be hell.

My favorite who I would like to be our coach is a person who has a long history as an assistant coach working under one of the top coaches ever, and for a pedigree franchise of winning culture as well as a player.   His name is Ime Udoka and he also happens to be black.

It is interesting that Brad became president of basketball operations.  Brad also knows who the troublemakers are.  It would not surprise me if Brad begins to prune the team roster and send some of the troublemakers packing elsewhere.  Walking is the first, let see who else may go.

112288

Shamrock1000 wrote:

112288 wrote:The articles seems plausible as to how Brad became the new President.  Ownership chose the younger person to keep.  Danny had a limited amount of time left as President based on his age and health.

The problem that caused this souring of the organization and player rebellion I believe was caused by Danny stacking the team with too many young players  and not enough veterans who would have kicked some butt if these players went off the reservation and were not listening to the coach.   I may be wrong, but I would be willing to bet that the trouble makers could 3 maybe 4  guys, namely Walker, Tatum, and Brown.

You may ask why include Tatum and Brown?  Because they are young rising stars and if I were Blake Griffin and interested in signing with Boston, who would I approach to ask if it was a good move?  The veteran Walker or two stars in the league - Brown and Tatum, not Taco nor Langford or the rest of the team.

Now it becomes clear why Gordon Haywood left, and it was not about not liking the City of Boston. I was what he saw in the locker room.

The Celtics have a real problem on their hands with both Tatum and Brown.  They are locked up with big money contracts and they are part of the elite players in the league.  At some point, and I do not care who you are, your ego begins to grow based on all the superlatives thrown at these players by the press each day.   Problem is, these players begin to believe they are bigger then the team, the coach and in some cases the NBA.

One thing that struck me as being very odd in this intense societal atmosphere of today, was when I heard that some of the players including Tatum wanted a black coach behind the bench for Boston. I thought the criteria for selecting a coach was selecting the best qualified person who exhibited the best resume of experience regardless of skin color or religious affiliation.  This societal upheaval being interjected into sports I believe will eventually destroy the league.

May I add, who the hell is Tatum and where is his deep knowledge and experience in basketball strategy and running a team!  This  guy is just beginning to understand the game!  His only attribute is his physical skill set and his coordination to shoot a basketball.

May I digress.   Why would ANY FRANCHISE IN ANY SPORT not want to select the best qualified candidate to lead their team as coach regardless of skin color or religious beliefs.  The Celtic broke all barriers by selecting Russell as the first black coach in the league, and over many decades also selected black coaches as well.  

Ainge did so with Doc Rivers and supported him through tough times before winning the championship.

Someone coming in better take control of the team from the get go and command respect or this upcoming season is going to be hell.

My favorite who I would like to be our coach is a person who has a long history as an assistant coach working under one of the top coaches ever, and for a pedigree franchise of winning culture as well as a player.   His name is Ime Udoka and he also happens to be black.

It is interesting that Brad became president of basketball operations.  Brad also knows who the troublemakers are.  It would not surprise me if Brad begins to prune the team roster and send some of the troublemakers packing elsewhere.  Walking is the first, let see who else may go.

112288

I have never heard an inkling of a rumor that either Tatum or Brown are the types of malcontents you portray them as. I would imagine Blake asked whomever he knew best. Given his age, it seems unlikely that person was Brown or Tatum. But I don't know, and neither does anyone here. Also nobody is suggesting that an unqualified person be named coach. I get that reading negative reports about the Celtics can be unpleasant, especially if they are mostly conjecture and speculation, but more conjecture and speculation is equally unfair. Especially to the two Js, who are decent coachable kids according to everything I have heard.  

gyso wrote:"Who here GAF about the truth" insinuates "nobody".  Your words.

I said, "Maybe some of it is true, maybe not."  I'm not arguing that point.

I said it was nonsense to say people get fired and then promoted and you said it happens all the time.  For evidence, you reference a TV show?  WTF?  

In real life, people often do get promoted to their level of incompetence (kicked upstairs), that's the Peter Principal.  But they don't get fired first.

Lastly, this is a Celtics board.  Why do you think it is strange when some of us get upset when others take a daily dump on our team?  

*shrugs*

dbrown4 wrote:What and who exactly is being fought for here?  What group of people (if any) is making/taking a stand regarding coaches in the NBA?  Is it all of Black America?  Is it just in the NBA?  Is it a small group within the NBA?  A much smaller group of people with an agenda focused way outside what the majority of all Americans want?  Please reveal yourself.  Do you use numbers and percentages from the general population or just the percentages from the NBA to determine who you hire or don't hire?

If my math is right...and it is, if you go the route of saying the NBA is a majority of one color on the court in this case, (actually I don't know the breakdown by race for each franchise.  We know what the court looks like because we see that everyday.  Does anyone have those numbers?)  then you are implicit in implying another race is in the minority and is not being represented, at least on the court.  So is that the problem?  With that kind of premise/assumption as your lead, then yes.  Clearly the NBA would need more of that race on NBA teams.  That's where that line of thinking leads you.        

You can't have it both ways.  And therein lies the problem.  It's all about perspective. 112288, you brilliantly reduced the problem to this one sentence in a nutshell...

"His name is Ime Udoka and he also happens to be black."

Is there anything wrong with this sentence?  Absolutely not.  But it all about perspective and emphasis.  What happens if you say it like this:

"He happens to be black and his name is Ime Udoka."  

Some will say nothing really.  You just switched the words around the conjunction.  But from a perspective and emphasis point of view, the two sentences are light-years apart.

Sounds exactly like what stalemate we have reached in this country and in a microcosm, the NBA.  

I'm generalizing here but when one makes statements like, "The NBA needs more black coaches", it REALLY sounds like there needs to be a quota system implemented.  Actually, let's correct that.  You ARE asking for a quota system, one to match the populous or a chosen metric.  (The legislation from the 70's and 80's regarding implementation of hiring quotas I believe was subsequently proven by the Supreme Court to be unconstitutional.  Regardless, quotas aren't around anymore.)  Quotas are not based upon who is best qualified for the job or the content of his/her character but based on the color of ones skin.  But hidden beneath that is the ever implicit elephant in the room for every majority, there is a minority who is not being fairly represented.

Can't have it both ways.  So what is the answer?  Agreement.  Agreement on perspective and emphasis.  Is it difficult?  Absolutely.  First and foremost you have to clear out ALL the noise (and actually recognize what is noise and what is not noise) and think for yourself.  Then you can address what are the real problems and issues are.  

When one argues with group-think premises and assumptions and follows them to their inevitable conclusions, things eventually fall apart, are reduced to an absurdity or become so fractionalized it becomes impossible to manage.  They fade away and end in frustration yet again.

The common denominator, the difference maker and the answer is in the mind and the actions of the individual.  The one that gets up in the morning and not only says but does go out and make a difference to change his/her status regardless of the odds stacked against them.  No one cares where you start compared to others Steven A., just where one finishes.  Wishing for a rising tide to raise all ships doesn't matter.  Here's why.

If I am being honest, I should be po'ed that say a LeBron James or an Oprah Winfrey started with much less than I did growing up yet have far surpassed me in life.  But po'ed at who?  At them?  Nope.  Myself?  Yes.  I can't blame them for their success and my failure to succeed compared to them.  Yet I applaud their success.  Because they did it themselves and surrounded themselves with people that mirrored their desire to be successful.  It's hard to get around an individual who will succeed at all costs and not have motivated people around them.  If Oprah and Lebron can do it from where they started, all can do it no matter the color of their skin.  I know these are two extremely successful people to use as examples to drive the point home, but you can apply this to any level.    

Did they have obstacles?  Yes.  More than most if not all of us could bare or imagine.  But they got up each morning and made a difference.  And they have been rewarded for that effort.  Beyond what most can imagine.  They each made a decision.  Their own.  To get up, make a difference and change this world.  This is what should be applauded and learned from and to produce a blueprint for all to follow.    

So, what does this have to do with coaching in the NBA?  Two things.  Be careful to follow your premises and assumptions through to the end of the argument.  You may not like what you see.  Or worse, you will see the blatant conclusions, not like what you see and still deny the conclusions and keep doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.  There's a word for that.  

The group-think assumptions have been used for quite some time, repeatedly, and nothing much if anything ever seems to change.  Second, don't twist or ignore Dr. King's words just to suit the situation.  Judge (or hire a coach in the NBA in this case) a man or woman based on the content of their character not the color of their skin.

For me and the new coach for Boston?  I like Sam Cassell.  I think he's perfect for the job and the task at hand.  Certainly way qualified.  He definitely has the character.  I'm not hearing his name much lately as a front runner but the 76ers just left the building so that should be changing.  I'd like to see a female coach in the NBA as well.  I think SA is going to do that first, though, not Boston.      

No (social) progress, perceived or actual, will be achieved until all can identify the real problem, if there is one.  In other words, has all the recent social awareness been driven by the group-think and has lost its connection from the individual(s) who, in the end are fed up enough and will solve these problems by their own daily actions?

This is a very complicated issue with more layers than an onion.  But until the focus comes back on the individual as the end-all, be-all problem/issue solver, expect to have all this boil back up in another (fill in the blank) years from now when most of us will be long gone and it will seem like yet again, no progress has been made when in reality maybe (or maybe not) a lot of progress has been made.

Bill Russell said it even better a few years ago when asked about the NBA athlete that came out that he was gay in a macho men's league.  His first response?  "Can he play basketball at a top level?"  (Something close to that)  Priceless.  Bill knows what he's talking about.    

Group-think and the subsequent agenda(s) are quicksand and typically appear to be an attempt to cover up any good progress made by yelling so loud to make things appear far worse than what is really going on at the local or individual levels.  Again, show yourself.  

Let's start using that 8 lb bowling ball resting on our shoulders for what it was intended.  Reasoning things out correctly.  Reaching agreement and consensus where everyone does win.  Make that the main premise before sitting down at the table.  Everyone has to win...or don't sit down at the table.  It can be done.        

db                      

   
   

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Cowens.....Sicilian thru the entire blood line!!!!!!!!!!!   don't mess with the fishes!!!!!!!!

All my Grandparents were born and raised in Italy, diffeerent sections but all Sicilian. My Mom's family was from Aragona, My Dad's were from Ucria and Sinagara, but all Sicilian.  Most came over in their teens, My Dad's Mom had 8 kids by the time she was 30, and she got sick, they brought her back to Italy with the boys and she died their. My Grandfather married another woman and she came over to take care of all the boys, had two more boys and he passed away four years later.  My Mom'a family came to ive here in Waltham, and I only knew my Grandfather for 4 years before he passed in 1951, I had an angel for a Grandmother who loved to cook and was around while I grew up   Unfortunately only my daughter got to know her, my son was too young.

I was named after my Grandmother I never knew and believe it or not I look just like her!!!

History of Rosalie Scafidi Troy!!!!!!!!!!!   (can you tell I am into ancestry,com???)

dbrown4 wrote:Ktron,

If you want to go offline and respond/discuss further, Private Message me on here and we can swap emails.  

db

BingBang! wrote:The team that hired the first black coach, just brought on its sixth. I’ve always been proud that the Celtics put merit above race. Ime Udoka spent 7 years with Pop, that’s what I care about, championship pedigree. First all black starting five when AA players were discriminated against; switch to Larry and Kevin in the 80s when white players were overlooked as potential superstars. Red Auerbach coached and managed to win and that’s what this fan is expecting from Ime. Congratulations coach Udoka!

worcester wrote:If Ime is a good coach, which he will be at the very least, no way will JT or JB even think about reneging on their Celtics contract. Also FA's are more likely to sign with us now, IMHO.
Win - Celtics!

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Exactly…..nice pat on the back huh?

I read yesterday that Zarren would be named General Manager, Brad is President.  

Too much……I am tired of it all.

Worcester…..if you ever wanted a great Italian meal…..where would you go?  Me?  My Grandmother and my Mom……now, me