Kevin Durant-Draymond Green Bombshells Reveal Bigger NBA Truths

my coach told me three minutes before my finals match that my opponent was just a J.V. wrestler who lucked into the finals, and his coach said he would be happy just to come home with the Silver Medal. When the match was about to start my confidence was sky high. Then the whistle blew. The guy was super aggressive, flat-out disrespectful. I was insulted that this punk was trying to challenge me. I fought the match of my life, refusing to lose, and in the end I won 4-1. Completely exhausted and spent.

At the end the guy was so pissed and slammed his headgear down onto the mat. A very poor sport. Then I learned that I'd snapped his 32 match win streak. My coach knew how to motivate me.

So did William Felton Russell's dad know how to motivate his son: "Never let anyone disrespect you."

Simmons admitted that there was some psychological “issue” going on with him. Am mental block, he wanted to say. It is not a slam on him if he has this problem, but it is up to him to try to get control of this and work on it. Maybe he is and no one knows This kid entered the league a pampered overpaid player. This is one player who should have stayed in school and learned what it was like to be a star. He got a scholarship at LSU, played the season, did not make the tournament, was asked to play in the NIT and refused. Then quit school. Mature, huh????

I have said before, these kids are just coming in Ill prepared to be a pro. I know, Tatum came out at the same age. Who is to say who is mature and who isn’t. We are talking about $$$$, so this will continue to happen. But unfortunately, there are going to be more “Simmons” out there in the future. It is like throwing them to the wolves

Intersting gossip but in the end WHO CARES!

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Durant loves this, I agree with you. These guys just dwell on this garbage, easier to play the blame game and blame the coach and owner, than to accept responsibility

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Durant loves this,  I agree with you.  These guys just dwell on this garbage, easier to play the blame game and blame the coach and owner, than to accept responsibility

Exactly, they have been getting so much attention since they were kids because of their gifts, but they really don’t know what pampered as.holes they have become. No accountability, they let this play out with the whole world watching, then years later play the blame game….really? I love the era of the late 60’s to the late 80’s, those guys just competed, tried to kill each other on the floor and that was how respect was earned. Now these guys/punks all want to be buddies and for the most part they are all pampered as.holes. Durant has no character and will throw his own teammates under the bus on a whim as he has done with Westbrook and then it’s always the blame game. I wish there was some bad ass PF like Karl Malone that would knock that skinny twerp on his ass hard in the lane….

cowens/oldschool wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Durant loves this,  I agree with you.  These guys just dwell on this garbage, easier to play the blame game and blame the coach and owner, than to accept responsibility

Exactly, they have been getting so much attention since they were kids because of their gifts, but they really don’t know what pampered as.holes they have become. No accountability, they let this play out with the whole world watching, then years later play the blame game….really? I love the era of the late 60’s to the late 80’s, those guys just competed, tried to kill each other on the floor and that was how respect was earned. Now these guys/punks all want to be buddies and for the most part they are all pampered as.holes. Durant has no character and will throw his own teammates under the bus on a whim as he has done with Westbrook and then it’s always the blame game. I wish there was some bad ass PF like Karl Malone that would knock that skinny twerp on his ass hard in the lane….

I got something different out of the interview. First Green is not a player who has been watched and coddled since he was in junior high. The guy worked his ass off to get to the association and make name for himself. KD's situation is closer to the "coddling" you envision. To me, it sounded like KD was disappointed that rather than try to get to the bottom of the situation, be it personal or basket philosophy, the team simply suspended Green. Presumably KD saw that as a cop out even though it was obviously meant to absolve him from blame. If I interpreted it correctly, then that shows some decency and self-awareness on KD's part - he knew he was also at fault and saw that his coach and team were willing to ignore his contribution to the flare up to placate the more talented guy.

Regarding "coddling", let's not forget that most of these guys grew up dirt poor, living in projects infested with crime and drugs, often raised by single mothers, so I'm not sure "coddled" is the right word. Any "coddling" they receive is done for the benefit of the coddler - people trying to make money off the talent these guys have. I am always surprised at how quickly fans side with billionaire owners over the guys who worked their whole lives to perfect their craft. Yes, if they are good enough they make tons of money, but that is because the product they provide (their basketball abilities) generate even more money. To me, one thing more F'ed up than making millions and millions per year for playing a game would be the owners pocketing all that profit.

You probablly have a point when it comes to Green. Durant has had eyes on him since he was young. The funny thing is, I remember reading how hard Meyers tried to get Durant to stay. If there was an issue, why not be a big man and put it right on the table. Silliness. He knew what he wanted to do, just like his buddy Kyrie. These top players have had money thrown at them for years. I really do not know much about Green at all except that he is a hard nosed player who can get under the skin of almost anyone he defends. Remind you of someone? So I will defer to you on this one but not change my opinion on Durant Meyers? a rich owner who wanted to get richer with another superstar on his team. especially with Klay hurt

RosalieTCeltics wrote:You probablly have a point when it comes to Green.  Durant has had eyes on him since he was young.  The funny thing is, I remember reading how hard Meyers tried to get Durant to stay.  If there was an issue, why not be a big man and put it right on the table.  Silliness.  He knew what he wanted to do, just like his buddy Kyrie.  These top players have had money thrown at them for years.  I really do not know much about Green at all except that he is a hard nosed player who can get under the skin of almost anyone he defends. Remind you of someone?  So I will defer to you on this one but not change my opinion on Durant   Meyers? a rich owner who wanted to get richer with another superstar on his team. especially with Klay hurt

Believe me, I am no fanboy of Durant, that is why I was surprised at that he seemed upset that the Warriors took his side in a knee jerk reaction. Most things are more complicated than they seem - as Ktron said, all sides made mistakes.

Shamrock is right about Green and how he came to be who he is. Shamrock is also spot on regarding the “coddling”
I suggest that folks watch the biopic on KD that aired on TV 2-3 yrs ago.
He was hardly coddled when he came up. It didn’t come easy for him either.
But the problem is is that KD is so damn sensitive that he reacts to everything everyone says about him and I think thats the bigger issue. He takes everything personally, be it fans, other players, media or FO personnel. That’s just who he is and he ain’t about to change.

Okay he had a rough beginning, worked his tail off as a kid, then became a coddled primadona as everyone wanted to throw money at him from say 18 and on….Green if I am correct also called out KD for not resigning with management to further stay with the team or let them know what was going on with him. He had a franchise and dynasty by the balls. So KD apparently handled that situation wrong and wrong enough so that another teammate who wanted to keep the dynasty going, even called him out.

His team could have traded him and got something in return even if he wasn’t going to stay with that franchise because we know he’s the most dis loyal superstar around….who likes to throw people under the bus like he just did

Management didn’t want to have to get to the bottom, because they lived it, ofcourse management, the team and players all bought in and wanted to keep everything going. Now their supposed to get to the bottom? Why to further call out Durant as a coddled no loyalty guy that he is, that wouldn’t give commitment to the team/franchise…???

Disloyal to who? The franchise? LOL. Tell me what franchise is loyal to all its players. Our team used to show some semblance of loyalty when Red was still around but as we dragged into new ownership, not so much.
When one wants to control his own destiny and actually has thoughts and feelings like most human beings, we tend to term them Prima Donna’s and spoiled brats. KD has his faults but he also happens to have a good head on his shoulders. Athletes are human just as we are.
If that be the case lets not stop there. Lets call out some of these greedy owners with their Yachts etc. Lots of them have so much cheese  that their sports franchise is nothing but a toy and they manage it that way as well.
Lets be fair and call them prima Donna’s (or any other name one can come up with) too.
I could go down a list of franchises who dissed their players and discarded them once their purpose was served OR when they found a new flavor of the day but I’d be writing until training camp opens. Loyalty? Ain’t no such thing as loyalty anymore in sports if there ever was. KD and those guys have FU money and the owners have FU and yo mama too money. The players are rich but the owners are wealthy. I ain’t mad at either one of em.

Ktron wrote:Disloyal to who? The franchise? LOL. Tell me what franchise is loyal to all its players. Our team used to show some semblance of loyalty when Red was still around but as we dragged into new ownership, not so much.
When one wants to control his own destiny and actually has thoughts and feelings like most human beings, we tend to term them Prima Donna’s and spoiled brats. KD has his faults but he also happens to have a good head on his shoulders. Athletes are human just as we are.
If that be the case lets not stop there. Lets call out some of these greedy owners with their Yachts etc. Lots of them have so much cheese  that their sports franchise is nothing but a toy and they manage it that way as well.
Lets be fair and call them prima Donna’s (or any other name one can come up with) too.
I could go down a list of franchises who dissed their players and discarded them once their purpose was served OR when they found a new flavor of the day but I’d be writing until training camp opens. Loyalty? Ain’t no such thing as loyalty anymore in sports if there ever was. KD and those guys have FU money and the owners have FU and yo mama too money. The players are rich but the owners are wealthy. I ain’t mad at either one of em.

+1000

To add to Ktron's points, look at how bummed players are when they are unceremoniously traded or dumped. They are bummed because they have grown to love a city and it's fans. When was the last time you saw an owner take out a full page add to thank the fans? They don't really give a F about us. If they did, they'd all be willing to spend to bring banners. Fact - if the Celtics go over the luxury tax line, the owners are still going to be rich in a way we cannot even remotely comprehend. And talk about coddled? Most of these owners are guys whose parents sent them to exclusive kindergartens that got them into exclusive primary schools that got them into the Phillips Exeters/Andover that got them into exclusive colleges that provided them with invaluable networking. Yet, they con fans into thinking kids who grew up under the most trying circumstances yet managed to get out on God given talent and hard work (talent isn't enough to get in the association) are the coddled prima donnas. Talk about a Jedi mind trick. Even and Wyc and company, who seem decent as far as owners go, are no doubt more loyal to the green in their wallets than the green on their players' jerseys. That's not a sin either, everyone looks out for themselves. It just cracks me up when people get pissed at players who do the same. Honestly, if you had a choice to take care of your family for one generation and get a ring, or take care of your family for several generations, which would you choose?

Ktron wrote:Disloyal to who? The franchise? LOL. Tell me what franchise is loyal to all its players. Our team used to show some semblance of loyalty when Red was still around but as we dragged into new ownership, not so much.
When one wants to control his own destiny and actually has thoughts and feelings like most human beings, we tend to term them Prima Donna’s and spoiled brats. KD has his faults but he also happens to have a good head on his shoulders. Athletes are human just as we are.
If that be the case lets not stop there. Lets call out some of these greedy owners with their Yachts etc. Lots of them have so much cheese  that their sports franchise is nothing but a toy and they manage it that way as well.
Lets be fair and call them prima Donna’s (or any other name one can come up with) too.
I could go down a list of franchises who dissed their players and discarded them once their purpose was served OR when they found a new flavor of the day but I’d be writing until training camp opens. Loyalty? Ain’t no such thing as loyalty anymore in sports if there ever was. KD and those guys have FU money and the owners have FU and yo mama too money. The players are rich but the owners are wealthy. I ain’t mad at either one of em.

Teammates

cowens/oldschool wrote:

Ktron wrote:Disloyal to who? The franchise? LOL. Tell me what franchise is loyal to all its players. Our team used to show some semblance of loyalty when Red was still around but as we dragged into new ownership, not so much.
When one wants to control his own destiny and actually has thoughts and feelings like most human beings, we tend to term them Prima Donna’s and spoiled brats. KD has his faults but he also happens to have a good head on his shoulders. Athletes are human just as we are.
If that be the case lets not stop there. Lets call out some of these greedy owners with their Yachts etc. Lots of them have so much cheese  that their sports franchise is nothing but a toy and they manage it that way as well.
Lets be fair and call them prima Donna’s (or any other name one can come up with) too.
I could go down a list of franchises who dissed their players and discarded them once their purpose was served OR when they found a new flavor of the day but I’d be writing until training camp opens. Loyalty? Ain’t no such thing as loyalty anymore in sports if there ever was. KD and those guys have FU money and the owners have FU and yo mama too money. The players are rich but the owners are wealthy. I ain’t mad at either one of em.

Teammates

Cow - what happens if a player decides to make a decision based in loyalty to teammates and then the owner trades a couple of his most valued teammates? I get your point - had Durant stayed with either OKC or GSW it could have led to something special. Note that OKC traded Harden because they didn't want to pay. There may have been a time when guys like Red acted with honor, but its been a business for many decades now. I don't blame either owners or players for acting in their own best interests (which also means the best interests of their wives and children). It is what it is.

Shamrock1000 wrote:

Ktron wrote:Disloyal to who? The franchise? LOL. Tell me what franchise is loyal to all its players. Our team used to show some semblance of loyalty when Red was still around but as we dragged into new ownership, not so much.
When one wants to control his own destiny and actually has thoughts and feelings like most human beings, we tend to term them Prima Donna’s and spoiled brats. KD has his faults but he also happens to have a good head on his shoulders. Athletes are human just as we are.
If that be the case lets not stop there. Lets call out some of these greedy owners with their Yachts etc. Lots of them have so much cheese  that their sports franchise is nothing but a toy and they manage it that way as well.
Lets be fair and call them prima Donna’s (or any other name one can come up with) too.
I could go down a list of franchises who dissed their players and discarded them once their purpose was served OR when they found a new flavor of the day but I’d be writing until training camp opens. Loyalty? Ain’t no such thing as loyalty anymore in sports if there ever was. KD and those guys have FU money and the owners have FU and yo mama too money. The players are rich but the owners are wealthy. I ain’t mad at either one of em.

+1000

To add to Ktron's points, look at how bummed players are when they are unceremoniously traded or dumped. They are bummed because they have grown to love a city and it's fans. When was the last time you saw an owner take out a full page add to thank the fans? They don't really give a F about us. If they did, they'd all be willing to spend to bring banners. Fact - if the Celtics go over the luxury tax line, the owners are still going to be rich in a way we cannot even remotely comprehend. And talk about coddled? Most of these owners are guys whose parents sent them to exclusive kindergartens that got them into exclusive primary schools that got them into the Phillips Exeters/Andover that got them into exclusive colleges that provided them with invaluable networking. Yet, they con fans into thinking kids who grew up under the most trying circumstances yet managed to get out on God given talent and hard work (talent isn't enough to get in the association) are the coddled prima donnas. Talk about a Jedi mind trick. Even and Wyc and company, who seem decent as far as owners go, are no doubt more loyal to the green in their wallets than the green on their players' jerseys. That's not a sin either, everyone looks out for themselves. It just cracks me up when people get pissed at players who do the same. Honestly, if you had a choice to take care of your family for one generation and get a ring, or take care of your family for several generations, which would you choose?

Say it!

Right on.

Shamrock sure that’s true, Ray Allen left in bad terms, heard he would not return calls from Pierce and KG, and that following year he was the difference in both teams fortunes. Durant has left Westbrook and Curry, KT and Green out to dry, so if you want to do it fine, even though before this in history, no great MVP caliber type player has ever joined forces with a powerhouse that just won a title, when he just lost in a CF. That’s fu..ed up and not enough people called him out on that, even though many did….is that the kind of guy you want to go to war with? He will always be a pu..y in my eyes and I’m sure most fans.

And getting back to the original point, if he wants to do all that, fine, he knows what obviously went down, now he’s got to also play the victim and the blame game. This exactly why Michael Kay rips Durant on his own networks station, YES, constantly saying how hard it is to root for these guys. They broadcast all the Yankee and Nets games, surprised Durant hasn’t tried to get Kay fired. He’s more what wrong with the modern game than the solution IMHO.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Shamrock sure that’s true, Ray Allen left in bad terms, heard he would not return calls from Pierce and KG, and that following year he was the difference in both teams fortunes. Durant has left Westbrook and Curry, KT and Green out to dry, so if you want to do it fine, even though before this in history, no great MVP caliber type player has ever joined forces with a powerhouse that just won a title, when he just lost in a CF. That’s fu..ed up and not enough people called him out on that, even though many did….is that the kind of guy you want to go to war with? He will always be a pu..y in my eyes and I’m sure most fans.

And getting back to the original point, if he wants to do all that, fine, he knows what obviously went down, now he’s got to also play the victim and the blame game. This exactly why Michael Kay rips Durant on his own networks station, YES, constantly saying how hard it is to root for these guys. They broadcast all the Yankee and Nets games, surprised Durant hasn’t tried to get Kay fired. He’s more what wrong with the modern game than the solution IMHO.

Cow - I agree it was a wuss move by KD to join an already assembled powerhouse that also happened to be his rival. I know for sure I posted how Giannis did it the right way. To me, that one championship for Giannis eclipses KD's rwo rings with GSW. Many fans feel the same. However, I understand it a little better after that interview - he saw a chance to be part of a beautiful basketball machine, which I can sort of get, and based on OKC trading Harden he felt OKC wasn't fully committed. I don't necessarily agree, but I see how he could feel that way. I could never have gotten any perspective from the typical sports puff piece interviews - hence my initial praise of the podcast. I just don't get how fans always side with management. I have been on this board awhile, and I know that 1) you sure as hell know the game; and 2) your blood is green as mine. So I have made my point and will now get off my soap box.

Shamrock1000 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Shamrock sure that’s true, Ray Allen left in bad terms, heard he would not return calls from Pierce and KG, and that following year he was the difference in both teams fortunes. Durant has left Westbrook and Curry, KT and Green out to dry, so if you want to do it fine, even though before this in history, no great MVP caliber type player has ever joined forces with a powerhouse that just won a title, when he just lost in a CF. That’s fu..ed up and not enough people called him out on that, even though many did….is that the kind of guy you want to go to war with? He will always be a pu..y in my eyes and I’m sure most fans.

And getting back to the original point, if he wants to do all that, fine, he knows what obviously went down, now he’s got to also play the victim and the blame game. This exactly why Michael Kay rips Durant on his own networks station, YES, constantly saying how hard it is to root for these guys. They broadcast all the Yankee and Nets games, surprised Durant hasn’t tried to get Kay fired. He’s more what wrong with the modern game than the solution IMHO.

Cow - I agree it was a wuss move by KD to join an already assembled powerhouse that also happened to be his rival. I know for sure I posted how Giannis did it the right way. To me, that one championship for Giannis eclipses KD's rwo rings with GSW. Many fans feel the same. However, I understand it a little better after that interview  - he saw a chance to be part of a beautiful basketball machine, which I can sort of get, and based on OKC trading Harden he felt OKC wasn't fully committed. I don't necessarily agree, but I see how he could feel that way. I could never have gotten any perspective from the typical sports puff piece interviews - hence my initial praise of the podcast. I just don't get how fans always side with management. I have been on this board awhile, and I know that 1) you sure as hell know the game; and 2) your blood is green as mine. So I have made my point and will now get off my soap box.

I’m not on managements side either, we all don’t know enough about what went on behind closed doors that was not covered by the media, but I do believe Meyers tried as hard as possible to resign Durant and I’m sure the rest of the team wanted him too. Draymond was the only one with enough balls to call out KD publicly on the issue. I also praised Giannis on the way he did it, sticking with his franchise. I also praised Kawhi for not going to the other LA team, not taking the easy way to win. We have to remember this is professional sports, it’s a competition, alot of players might be great people and some might be talented primadonas/as..oles; but if they can’t do enough good/great things to put their team in the best position to win, there are plenty of players new and old chomping at one of these jobs as they are so scarce and the talented jerks will also always have a franchise put up with them. So many players don’t even last 5 years, management has to do their job and it’s survival of the fittest. Again Durant made his choices, he had his reasons in his own mind and history will judge him.

Is that a soap box or shine box? Lol

Shamrock,

Excellent subtle point made about team owners and luxury tax. We all know about the luxury tax and how much it is if you go over. In the grand scheme of things, to these owners, it is pocket change and they could literally pull their wallet out on their person and pay the fines. Yet, owners avoid it like the plague. Why is that? That's the difference between owners and the rest of an organization or the rest of us for that matter.

If you know a CEO or president of a company, you know they stick out. They act differently than any other people you may know. They talk differently as well. Everything about them is different and you know it the second they walk in the room. They have the weight of the world on their shoulders because they are responsible for the livelihoods of so many people.

My point is they are wealthy for a reason. They didn't get that way by throwing their money away at everything. And that reason is, they don't just give away money frivolously. Now they may be the most generous people you will ever meet or they may be that and you not even know it because they do it in secret like a Charles Barkley or a Shaq. But they are always in absolute control and contribute to whatever and whomever they want, never under pressure. They know what rabbit holes to avoid. The luxury tax is one of them. By definition, the luxury tax is frivolous.

Now some reach the point where they think they have more money than God and can do whatever they want. Enter the Brooklyn Nets. Their demise last season was a sucker bet and the same result will be coming down the shoot this upcoming season, except even more dismantling since they decided to continue being greedy. Gordon Gecko was wrong. Greed is not good.

I'm on record. Wife's paycheck.

db

dbrown4 wrote:Shamrock,

Excellent subtle point made about team owners and luxury tax.  We all know about the luxury tax and how much it is if you go over.  In the grand scheme of things, to these owners, it is pocket change and they could literally pull their wallet out on their person and pay the fines.  Yet, owners avoid it like the plague.  Why is that?  That's the difference between owners and the rest of an organization or the rest of us for that matter.  

If you know a CEO or president of a company, you know they stick out.  They act differently than any other people you may know.  They talk differently as well.  Everything about them is different and you know it the second they walk in the room.  They have the weight of the world on their shoulders because they are responsible for the livelihoods of so many people.  

My point is they are wealthy for a reason.  They didn't get that way by throwing their money away at everything.  And that reason is, they don't just give away money frivolously.  Now they may be the most generous people you will ever meet or they may be that and you not even know it because they do it in secret like a Charles Barkley or a Shaq.  But they are always in absolute control and contribute to whatever and whomever they want, never under pressure.  They know what rabbit holes to avoid.  The luxury tax is one of them.  By definition, the luxury tax is frivolous.  

Now some reach the point where they think they have more money than God and can do whatever they want.  Enter the Brooklyn Nets.  Their demise last season was a sucker bet and the same result will be coming down the shoot this upcoming season, except even more dismantling since they decided to continue being greedy.  Gordon Gecko was wrong.  Greed is not good.

I'm on record.  Wife's paycheck.  

db                

Great points, these owners were super successful as CEO’s or owners of their business, they got there by being extremely smart in a cold bottomline world and maximizing profits and motivating personnel to work at their most productive and efficient. Their best had to be great for the company and the individuals that make up the company and incorporate so different aspects of business and production, marketing, etc; so yeah, it’s kind of ingrained in them not to lose money. I get it.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

dbrown4 wrote:Shamrock,

Excellent subtle point made about team owners and luxury tax.  We all know about the luxury tax and how much it is if you go over.  In the grand scheme of things, to these owners, it is pocket change and they could literally pull their wallet out on their person and pay the fines.  Yet, owners avoid it like the plague.  Why is that?  That's the difference between owners and the rest of an organization or the rest of us for that matter.  

If you know a CEO or president of a company, you know they stick out.  They act differently than any other people you may know.  They talk differently as well.  Everything about them is different and you know it the second they walk in the room.  They have the weight of the world on their shoulders because they are responsible for the livelihoods of so many people.  

My point is they are wealthy for a reason.  They didn't get that way by throwing their money away at everything.  And that reason is, they don't just give away money frivolously.  Now they may be the most generous people you will ever meet or they may be that and you not even know it because they do it in secret like a Charles Barkley or a Shaq.  But they are always in absolute control and contribute to whatever and whomever they want, never under pressure.  They know what rabbit holes to avoid.  The luxury tax is one of them.  By definition, the luxury tax is frivolous.  

Now some reach the point where they think they have more money than God and can do whatever they want.  Enter the Brooklyn Nets.  Their demise last season was a sucker bet and the same result will be coming down the shoot this upcoming season, except even more dismantling since they decided to continue being greedy.  Gordon Gecko was wrong.  Greed is not good.

I'm on record.  Wife's paycheck.  

db                

Great points, these owners were super successful as CEO’s or owners of their business, they got there by being extremely smart in a cold bottomline world and maximizing profits and motivating personnel to work at their most productive and efficient. Their best had to be great for the company and the individuals that make up the company and incorporate so different aspects of business and production, marketing, etc; so yeah, it’s kind of ingrained in them not to lose money. I get it.

Yup - James Dolan is a business wizard, who has never benefitted at all from the family he was born into, and he entirely earned his ownership through business acumen and wise decision making. The Buss children as well. I am sure there are other business geniuses I forgot to mention. The Celtics ownership may have been successful in business, but definitely not all owners. I would also note the the CEO world is a bit like the how the NBA and NFL coaching worlds used to be (and still are to an extent) - there are countless examples of CEOs F'ing everything up, getting a ridiculous exit packages, and then walking right into another plum CEO job. Most of these guys grew up privileged (fancy prep schools, Ivy League colleges). So I don't agree with the default worship of CEOs as self-made geniuses. The tech guys are a little different - I have more respect for them since they usually played major roles in conceiving and developing their products. Okay, now I will really get off my soap/shine box since I don't want to contaminate this board with political/society-type content.