Grant Williams Hand Surgery

jrleftfoot wrote:In my opinion , cavalier dismissal of Grant's worth because of the Porzingas deal is utterly misplaced. If this was fantasy basketball I might agree, but the difference between Grant , Al and RWill is that Grant doesn't have to be babied. Al can't play back to backs, he's excused wen he plays poorly because he is too tired. That darned coach overworked him. RWill is great when he's great, but you're lucky if he  give you half a season. I believe that Porzingas played the most games of his enture career last year. You can count on Grant showing up every GD night. Availability , etc . We gave up our toughest player, now we are going to denigrate the conteibutions of the guy I believe to be our third toughest? I think DWhite is our toughest player with Smart gone.Grant, if he returns is numero dos. He plays several positions , plays through injuries  and never complains. Ditch guys like that at your peril.            

Truth!

‘Foot, I agree that toughness is essential to a team and that the acquisition of Zinger does not make GW expendable. Grant holds his ground better than anyone but Smart and I see no one of the roster who compares. Porzingis could bang with Embiid and the other behemoths, but he’s not built for it and will break down. If it comes down to Brogdon or Williams, I’d have to know more about MB’s injury. Love the way this team is shaping up. hawk

jrleftfoot wrote:In my opinion , cavalier dismissal of Grant's worth because of the Porzingas deal is utterly misplaced. If this was fantasy basketball I might agree, but the difference between Grant , Al and RWill is that Grant doesn't have to be babied. Al can't play back to backs, he's excused wen he plays poorly because he is too tired. That darned coach overworked him. RWill is great when he's great, but you're lucky if he  give you half a season. I believe that Porzingas played the most games of his enture career last year. You can count on Grant showing up every GD night. Availability , etc . We gave up our toughest player, now we are going to denigrate the conteibutions of the guy I believe to be our third toughest? I think DWhite is our toughest player with Smart gone.Grant, if he returns is numero dos. He plays several positions , plays through injuries  and never complains. Ditch guys like that at your peril.            

Foot

Cavalier dismissal is your words to, I assume, describe my take on Grant.

To be clear, he helped this team and if he left we would need a replacement.

However the addition of Porzingis does impact our big rotation. That notion is hardly misplaced. The only question that is not yet answered is whether or not the owners are willing to ante up in a deal to retain Grant. If the answer to that is no, The Celtics could try to get some form of compensation in a sign and trade deal or they may just let him walk.

Letting him walk is not out of the question. Remember when the Celtics let Evan Turner and KO walked for nothing?

dboss wrote:

jrleftfoot wrote:In my opinion , cavalier dismissal of Grant's worth because of the Porzingas deal is utterly misplaced. If this was fantasy basketball I might agree, but the difference between Grant , Al and RWill is that Grant doesn't have to be babied. Al can't play back to backs, he's excused wen he plays poorly because he is too tired. That darned coach overworked him. RWill is great when he's great, but you're lucky if he  give you half a season. I believe that Porzingas played the most games of his enture career last year. You can count on Grant showing up every GD night. Availability , etc . We gave up our toughest player, now we are going to denigrate the conteibutions of the guy I believe to be our third toughest? I think DWhite is our toughest player with Smart gone.Grant, if he returns is numero dos. He plays several positions , plays through injuries  and never complains. Ditch guys like that at your peril.            

Foot

Cavalier dismissal is your words to, I assume, describe my take on Grant.

To be clear, he helped this team and if he left we would need a replacement.

However the addition of Porzingis does impact our big rotation.  That notion is hardly misplaced.  The only question that is not yet answered is whether or not the owners are willing to ante up in a deal to retain Grant.  If the answer to that is no, The Celtics could try to get some form of compensation in a sign and trade deal or they may just let him walk.

Letting him walk is not out of the question.  Remember when the Celtics let  Evan Turner and KO walked for nothing?

              Fair enough. I often don't pay attention to who says what on here, to be honest, but yes, it was a comment of yours that set me off. No offense. I just value Grant more highly than you do. I won't ACTUALLY lose any sleep if he leaves, but I'll miss him. Your analysis of our big rotation is academically sound, but Grant plays with a certain heart that I think is missing in some of the other guys.I've seen KO's name floated. I don't have the contempt for Kelly that cowens does, but, despite Kelly's size , I'd rather have GW. I realize they play different positions, and that we can use a veteran point guard, but if you really want to see a hissy fit, let the Cs cut Grant loose and pick up Dennis Schroeder. My feelings toward him are similar to somebody else's ( is that you , ktron or both) to Draymond. For the record, the "war criminal" isn't a favorite of mine either.

jrleftfoot wrote:

dboss wrote:

jrleftfoot wrote:In my opinion , cavalier dismissal of Grant's worth because of the Porzingas deal is utterly misplaced. If this was fantasy basketball I might agree, but the difference between Grant , Al and RWill is that Grant doesn't have to be babied. Al can't play back to backs, he's excused wen he plays poorly because he is too tired. That darned coach overworked him. RWill is great when he's great, but you're lucky if he  give you half a season. I believe that Porzingas played the most games of his enture career last year. You can count on Grant showing up every GD night. Availability , etc . We gave up our toughest player, now we are going to denigrate the conteibutions of the guy I believe to be our third toughest? I think DWhite is our toughest player with Smart gone.Grant, if he returns is numero dos. He plays several positions , plays through injuries  and never complains. Ditch guys like that at your peril.            

Foot

Cavalier dismissal is your words to, I assume, describe my take on Grant.

To be clear, he helped this team and if he left we would need a replacement.

However the addition of Porzingis does impact our big rotation.  That notion is hardly misplaced.  The only question that is not yet answered is whether or not the owners are willing to ante up in a deal to retain Grant.  If the answer to that is no, The Celtics could try to get some form of compensation in a sign and trade deal or they may just let him walk.

Letting him walk is not out of the question.  Remember when the Celtics let  Evan Turner and KO walked for nothing?

              Fair enough. I often don't pay attention to who says what on here, to be honest, but yes, it was a comment of yours that set me off. No offense. I just value Grant more highly than you do. I won't ACTUALLY lose any sleep if he leaves, but I'll miss him. Your analysis of our big rotation is academically sound, but Grant plays with a certain heart that I think is missing in some of the other guys.I've seen KO's name floated. I don't have the contempt for Kelly that cowens does, but, despite Kelly's size , I'd rather have GW. I realize they play different positions, and that we can use a veteran point guard, but if you really want to see a hissy fit, let the Cs cut Grant loose and pick up Dennis Schroeder. My feelings toward him are similar to somebody else's ( is that you , ktron or both) to Draymond. For the record, the "war criminal" isn't a favorite of mine either.

Foot a bit of good news.

In the Porgingis introductory news conference Brad said that he had the GREEN light.   He did add a caveat that deals have to make sense or something to that effect.

Therefore, they may be quite willing to dip their toes in the above 2nd apron pool.  The dip reference is about how deep are they willing to go.

Ktron definitely likes GW more than I do and we from time to time engage in a lot of light hearted debates.

Grant has exceeded my expectations.  Those expectations however were never lofty.  He worked his butt off to learn how to make wide open 3's and this season we even witnessed a few makes off of his lateral movements in close out situation (side step 3's)  He has started to put the ball on the floor also during closeouts and take it to the rim.  But he remains limited in a lot of areas  and I do not think we can expect much improvements.  What are limiting factors?

He's slow of foot. (no pun intended)  His rebounding has not been great.  There have been great undersized rebounders who were PF in this league.  I hoped to see him utilize his girth to carve out space.  What I have seen is his lack of verticality (no surprise there) and he does not seem to get rebounds in traffic.  He rarely gets rebounds outside of his space.  Defensively he can bump and grind in the paint and in general does a good job against bigger players but out on the perimeter he is as likely to get blown by as he is able to stay in front of a quicker offensive player.  Most of these issues begin and end with an athletic profile that makes it virtually impossible to do certain things well.

He is a rotation guy and an occasional starter.  If he leaves, Boston would lose a competent guy who contributes to winning in spite of his limitations.  I hope that the Celtics keep him because they are in fact a better team with him than without him.

Can't argue with any of that , boss. Grant will never be a star, or anything close to it. I look at him as a glue guy, though, and a team of strangers rarely prospers. Even KG and Pierce knew each other from teenage AAU days.Losing Smart is liking losing a family member, in his case a sort of patriarch. I'm not sure we can afford to lose another. Mercenaries are useful,even essential, but guys that come up together are like family. When his teammates went to Joe, and lobbied for him to get more playing time, it wasn't because he could nump high or had a big wingspan. It was because they felt better with him on the floor.Like you, I hope they keep him. I just hope it maybe a bit more than you do. Can't wait to see who we add. I hope its a shooter taller than 6'1 and more mobile than Hauser.

With FA knocking on the door we are about to find out if there are teams with cap space that want to get GW.

I read that the Celtics made a $50 M/5 year offer to GW in the fall. If that is true and he declined the offer what would they offer if he comes back home dragging his tail behind him? What are the chances that he signs a one year QO ($8.5 million)

Teams are going to start renouncing cap holds so a lot of low cost players will become available for vet minimum 1 year deals.