POST GAME NEW YORK

Do not care if they lost. This team is going to be great! Bass was such an upgrade from Big Baby. Not only can he score but he can move and jump, something Big baby lacked. Once we get Pierce and Pietre into the lineup...watch out. This team needs one more big and we are set. Oh, and Danny, if you start the rumor of trading Rondo again, I'm personally going to go to Boston and give you a public flogging!

112288

HOW THE GAME WAS LOST: The inability to stop Carmelo Anthony, who finished with 37 points, including 17 in the fourth quarter and 8 in the final three minutes, including the game-deciding free throws with 16.3 seconds left. The Celtics had two good looks to win (Marquis Daniels missed a wide-open three) or tie (Kevin Garnett bricked a wide-open 15 footer) in the closing seconds.

* TURNING POINT: Early in the fourth quarter, the Celtics were in control, having erased a 17-point deficit to take a 10-point lead early in the final quarter. But a prolonged drought allowed Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire to get going again and the Celtics struggled over the final six minutes, getting only four baskets.

* STAT OF THE GAME: 65. As in the combined free throws by both teams, which slowed the game down and dragged it to nearly three hours. The Celtics themselves attempted 15 free throws in the first quarter alone and it was via the freebie that the Celtics managed to stay reasonably close until their offense got going.

* UNSUNG HERO: Brandon Bass. As in, “Baby Who?” Wow, what a debut for the former Magic man. Bass and Rajon Rondo helped keep the Celtics afloat in an otherwise underwhelming first half -- and then the newcomer, along with Rondo and Ray Allen, took over in the third quarter. After three quarters, he already had a double-double (18-10) which, by game’s end, had grown to 20-11.

* WHAT IT MEANS: With no Paul Pierce? Not a lot. Nonetheless, this represents the first opening season loss in the new Big Three era. The acquisition of Tyson Chandler was supposed to shore up New York’s porous defense -- and that was all the pre-game talk coming from the Knicks. Chandler did contribute 6 blocked shots, but the Celtics, after a slow start, still managed to shoot 51.3 percent, scored 104 points, and even outrebounded them, 41-31.

* WHAT’S NEXT: After Christmas featured a rematch of the first-round playoffs last year, Tuesday is a rematch of the second round, with a visit to Miami against the Heat. The Celtics were 0-3 in Miami in the playoffs last season. Both teams played on the road on Christmas; Miami will travel home after opening their season in Dallas. The Celtics don’t know yet if Pierce will be able to play, but the sooner the better.

112288

ditto everything

to add.

We made our run with Melo on the bench with 4.

we attacked and took good shots during that run and forced the Knicks into poor ones. Then once we got it up to 10 ...... we stopped pushing. Went into a Rondo KG solo set for several possessions. RA JO BB or Quis hardly got a touch during a 3+ minute stretch.

Still 37 minutes is too much for KG and RA even RR at 41 is too much. Doc has got to trust the bench and let these guys stay fresh. Without PP we did well. Would have like to seen a few minutes from Moore.

Bradley just tried to force things a bit much.

And lastly Joey Crawford has got to be the most grandstanding official in any sport. I won't say he cost us the game but he sure helped NY when they needed help. The T on Sasha was ???? Melo clears him off with a forearm to the neck/head then Sasha bodies up again and gets the T??

Oh well.

We need a healthy PP and hopefully that will help with cutting soome minutes for the others.

And just to add about Bass.... WOW ( Betcha KG won't be making him cry ) I'm saying right now if he can play 20-25 minutes a game he will flat out lead the team in rebounds and lead by a lot! 5 offensive boards today plus he kept many others alive.

Rondo 9-12 from the line was nice. Shot well from outside too and the passing was fine. Couple too many turnovers but I can live with that if he continues to go for 31 and 13 dimes. 41 minutes is about 3-4 too many.

And on the last play KG got the ball and RR cut outside him...hindsight being what it is I'd just as soon see him give the ball back to Rondo and let him fire up the 3 for the game.

beat

Hi,
Great game. We are finally into the season. Season Greetings, by the way!
1. RR - what a performance! A couple times he even overdid it. But it was clear RR is on the mission.
2. PP was sorely needed. MD couldn't guard 'Melo. Sasha did a decent job but got into foul trouble.
3. You can't play KG for 37 minutes. At the end he was gassed and missed 2 bunnies. I hope it's due to absence of PP, I mean KG's minutes.
4. BB is very good. Does all the dirty work and then some.
5. First 1.7 quarters Celtics were in total disarray, kind of. But then wheels started to spin in sync and the team started to move in the right direction.
6. Sorry AB's fans but IMO he's not it. I wish Doc'd use EM more instead of AB.
7. Once again refs decided the outcome of a close game: what was those Ts on Sasha and JON. And that trap-like look by Joey at MD when he fouled 'Melo. Also, I thought that a hit to the head by an elbow is a flagrant 1.
8. The team needs at least 5-6 more games with the current roster to polish all the rough edges.
9. Did I mention RR's great.

If somebody already started the game 1 thread please please cut and paste mine into it.

AK

Just checked the Heat Dallas game stats..

Dallas's starters have 2 made fg's with 2 minutes to go in the 1st half!!

Certainly making Miami look good.

beat

I thought this game was pretty simple. Five elements:

1. N.Y. came out full of energy, which one would expect under the circumstances.

2. The Celtics, after some ragged play, absorbed the best NY had to offer, kept their poise, and stayed in the game.

3. Pivotal play number one: Anthony's offensive foul on Rondo solidified the momentum swing for the Celtics and got him out of the game for an extended period.

4. Pivotal play (actually plays) number two: Bradley's two consecutive turnovers were a rally killer for the Celtics and shifted momentum to back to the Knicks.

5. Pivotal play number three: With the game on the line and very even, Jermaine's moving pick, while Ray was sinking a three, resulted in a five- or six-point swing. Do the math.

I don't recall bass being so aggressive. He can be a bruiser under the boards, especially at the offensive end. I hope Wilcox can become a reasonable facsimile of that, while learning not to pass the ball to guys in white unless he's playing at home.

Rondo kept the Celtics in the game during the first half with aggressive scoring, and it was great to see him hitting jumpers and freebies. But they moved out in front in the second half when he focused more on ball distribution (something like 9-10 assists). That was the biggest reason they needed Pierce—so Rondo could score less and distribute more. They're a much more balanced team and dangerous team when he has the freedom to do place that role at the top of his priorities.

Seeing Quis so overmatched against Anthony convinced me that, at least against taller and stronger SFs like Melo and Mr. South Beach, the backups at that position should be Pietrus and Sasha, while Quis can function much better at both ends by backing up Ray (maybe aided by Moore down the road).

Not a bad outing for a team that was really playing what amounts to their third preseason game. If their chemistry continues to improve as much as it did during this game, I'll be very happy.

Finally, a perfect post-Christmas gift to me would be the acquisition of Pryzbilla and the release of Bradley. Yes, he's athletic, but he knows virtually nothing about the game of basketball.

Sam

A very good synopsis by all posters so far, here's my ragged thoughts.

1. Rondo shot 9-12 from the line and 3-6 from beyond the paint. If shooting was his weakness, he now has no weaknesses. I noticed in the pre-season games that his shot flowed off his hands more fluidly now, and we saw the result today.

2. When the game went into crunch time the Knick offense boiled down to a two-man game, Carmelo Anthony and Joe Crawford. Some of Crawford's calls were unintelligible. 'Melo plays with his elbows up and he calls Sasha for a T (?) for taking a 'Melo elbow in the chops? Huh? This is after 'Melo had already clocked Rondo with an elbow. The call on Q in the last minute, which put 'Melo on the line for 2, was a bad call. Schoolyard basketball won today, helped out by a healthy dose of home court referreeing.

3. I didn't understand Doc's last play either. KG had missed his last couple of shots and was showing signs of fatigue. Why would you call a play for a tired shooter?

4. It's hard not to call Rondo the Celtic "Player of the Game", but Brandon Bass comes close. Very steady performance for our new PF off the bench. 20 points on 9-13 shooting and 11 rebounds playing some very fundamentally sound basketball. If this is what we can expect, I don't care if he doesn't pass. McHale never passed either. Did you complain then? Bass got the job done.

5. The Steamer never got off the bench. That is a telling sign of what Doc really thinks of him. After all of Doc's talk about reducing KG's minutes this year, KG plays 37. Another call by Doc I don't understand.

6. Bradley is superfluous. We already have 2 PGs that can play defense. What we need is a PG that can shoot and Bradley isn't doing it. I'd rather have 33 year old Eddie House now. Neither are good ballhandlers (I used to cringe when Eddie dribbled too) but at least Eddie can shoot lights out, under pressure, all day.

7. Sasha's gone as soon as Pietrus' knee is healed. He played pretty good defense but was very unconfident on offense. He didn't ask for the ball, he didn't move to get free for the ball and one time I saw him with the ball and had an opportunity to turn a corner and cut to the hoop and he didn't do it. I like Sasha, but is he that much better a defender than Pietrus, enough to offset the difference in offense?

8. I'm glad Bill Walker's gone. Stupidity is contagious, like immaturity was on our bench last year. Let him be stupid for D'Antoni.

9. If Pierce played, this game wouldn't be close. If 'Melo was getting those bogus superstar calls, Pierce would be getting them too, and 'Melo would have fouled out (or sat a lot more). Either way, we win.

10. We gave up a 36 point first quarter. 36!!??!! We give up 30, which is still a lot of points to give up, and we win going away today. They had energy to start the game, we didn't. Our 3rd quarter, though, was a thing of beauty. I did understand, and really liked, Doc's calls of releasing Rondo on top for the fast break passes. You have to have confidence in your rebounding to do that and, in the second half, we did much better. Our rebounding in the 1st half stunk to high heaven.

I don't like losing, especially in this abbreviated season, but I can live with this one. When Pierce comes back and Pietrus starts playing, we'll be much stronger than we were today and we only lost by a couple of dubious Crawford calls today (or a probably never-to-be-repeated horrible 1st quarter).

bob

.

Joey Crawford is a joke not only to the league but to honest ref's. Either this guy is stuffing cash in a Swiss Bank account, 'cause he's getting paid off, or is is one dumb SOB not to know when a player is swinging his elbows all night! And they say KG is a dirty player, this punk Anthony tops the list and I hope someone goes for his knee's when he starts flaring his elbows!

Mark my word, we are going to have a nice, quick transition game on offense once we get a few more games together. I am usually pessimistic, but I really like what I see and Pietre will add depth at wing.

112288

Lakers lost so that takes a little of sting away from us losing.

Kobe although he appeared to be playing well certainly did his best in the final 45 seconds to help the Lakers loose. Shot well but had 8 turnovers.

With a three point lead he (1) misses a jumper,
then (2) commits a foul on Deng who makes um both to cut the lead to 1
after an LA Time out, he(3) turns the ball over on a Deng steal. After Rose makes a tough shot he (4) gets a potential game winning shot blocked... by Deng.

As for the Dallas/Heat game....... did the players leave after the banner was rasied?

beat

Beat,

If only Miami lost. It would have made my Christmas.

112288

Melo has certainly grown into a punk.

Of course in my parts he is still somewhat of a saint with SU being so close by.

He certainly wasn't this way early in Denver.

But the guy can fill it. We had him covered reasonably well for some of those late shots. Tried to double him a couple times but it came too late.

And then Bill Walker..... who the F is Bill Walker. Played 15 minutes and the only crooked number he put was 3 turnovers and he's talkin like he won the game himself!!!

Glad the C's ditched him years ago.

beat

112288 wrote:Beat,

If only Miami lost. It would have made my Christmas.

112288

Agree but Dallas certainly put up NO fight! At least the Lakers and Us played hard if not quite hard enough.

beat

beat wrote:Lakers lost so that takes a little of sting away from us losing.

Kobe although he appeared to be playing well certainly did his best in the final 45 seconds to help the Lakers loose. Shot well but had 8 turnovers.

With a three point lead he (1) misses a jumper,
then (2) commits a foul on Deng who makes um both to cut the lead to 1
after an LA Time out, he(3) turns the ball over on a Deng steal. After Rose makes a tough shot he (4) gets a potential game winning shot blocked... by Deng.

As for the Dallas/Heat game....... did the players leave after the banner was rasied?

beat

A few tidbits from the Lakers/Bulls game;

Lakers led by 11 with 3:38 to go.
Lakers led by 8 with 1:58 to go.
Gasol missed both free throws with Lakers up 6 and 1:40 to go.
McRoberts missed both free throws with Lakers up 4 and 1:12 to go.
The Lakers still led by 6 with 54.6 seconds to go before Kobe's brutal final moments documented by beat.

And the Lakers had company today. Both L.A. and Boston lost games having double-digit fourth quarter leads to teams significantly younger than they are. In our case, we've seen A LOT of that in previous years. Let's hope this doesn't become a habit. Of course we were without PP today so that makes today's game a bit easier to understand. Still, an ugly end to what could have been a great win.

I don't care how good Melo looked yesterday, there is no way that he scores 30 plus points if Pierce is playing him.

Just how is Joe Crawford still in this league? Were they that hard up for ref's
that they took him back after his suspension? A couple of those calls yesterday were ridiculous, especially the one on Sasha.

Why Garnett played 37 minutes is beyond me, all we have been hearing is
how they are going to manage his time. His shot was off at the end because just didn't have to legs to get up higher. He hits those shots all the timel]

Oh well, it was just game one, but, I hate losing to the Knicks, they are sooooo cockyl

Hopefully PP will be back soon, he is such an important cog in the wheell

Rosalie,

Don't worry. When things return to some semblance of normalcy (i.e., Pierce is back in the flow, the starters and bench are assuming their ideal roles, and enough games have been played for the various combinations to gain some continuity), you'll see KG's minutes reduced.

Uncil then, the Celtics simply need more "experienced minutes" on the floor. Rushing into the first game with only three really experienced Celtics on t he floor. I do wish KG had had a couple of minutes of rest midway in the 4th, but—as I've said—it wasn't an ideal scenario.

Without Pierce, Ray was the only starter other than KG who's a primary option in the offensive flow, and Ray was covered pretty tightly at least throughout the first half. Yes, Rondo scored; but that's not necessarily something that's been as normal or dependable as I hope it will be; and it's not his number one job either.

When contingencies arise, certain players are called upon to rise to the occasion. Such was the case with KG yesterday. It's not a reliable indication of Doc's plan for the season.

The Celtics also need one more big man to be an impact player. It could become Wilcox (I sense the jury's still out on him as far as Doc's concerned) or another experienced center or both.

The one substitution that I find fault with was that of Bradley, who singlehandedly turned the game in the Knicks' favor. I know I've been spouting a lot about that, but I've seldom been so disappointed about anything Celtic-related.

Sam

You and I feel the same way about Bradley, somehow I just don't see this kid being a major contributor. I wuld much rather see them training Moore, he has an upside that I really like.

Well, tomorrow is a big one, you know James is gunning for the Celtics, if
Paul is back, I will feel much better.

My family finally got the message, no crazy gifts, just give me celtic tickets!
I am going to the Orlando game in January, and right after that, the Indiana
game. Not the same as the old days of being a season ticket holder, but
at least I will get to a couple of them!!

IMHO turning points were when Jermaine got the foul for a moving pick as Ray was draining a three and then getting a T.

Rosalie and Sam,
I'm definitely in your camp. As I mentioned before, AB is not a guy to go with. The last night's game clearly showed it. I hope that the main reason he's got almost 9 min of PT was Doc's still experimenting. I hope tomorrow he'll try EM.
It sucks that they spent 2 years on AB with no visible progress. Should've traded him instead of Semih...

AK

A 2 point loss on the road is no big deal. This game was far more important to the pysche of the Knicks than it was to Boston.

The single most significant reason for the loss was the inability for the Celtics to score from the small forward position as well as the inability to limit Carmello from hitting an efficent 10 of 17 from the field, 13 for 15 from the charity stripe and 8 boards. Sasha took zero shots. His stat line 1 rebound 1 assist, 4 PF's in 15 uninspired minutes on the floor.

Marquis despite his 6 boards and 5 assists was physically overmatched by Carmello and I think this is an issue that was already recognized by DA.

No loss is good but the Celtics played their hearts out and competed right to the final buzzer.

I recently posted a comment under another thread about my favorite point guard, Rajon Rondo. I suggested that he will score more this year because he has to. He has been tasked with being a more productive scorer from the perimeter and the foul line. Yesterday we got a look at what he is capable of doing. If Rajon can contine his offensive assault, it will dramatically change the way teams defend against Boston.

Brandon Bass is going to be a very effective player for the Celtics. His rough and tumble style more than accounts for what Glen Davis brought to the table.

With respect to Avery Bradley, he got some prime time minutes and threw up all over the court. But I would not be too hasty to cast him off. He still needs more seasoning. He is a 2nd year player that is still trying to find his way. Doc is going to get him a few more looks and I think that is only fair.

I do not think we will see KG play that many minutes on most nights. The Celtics really needed his scoring with PP out.

Overall, a good accounting by the Celtics that can only raise our expectations for this season. Once PP is back and Pietrus is integrated into the team Boston will be a tough out every game.

dboss

Rosalie,

You've done a great job in conditioning your family to meet your most important needs. Congratulations on a job well done.

I guess we'll just have to see about Bradley. I must be missing something very important in his potential because Doc keeps giving him opportunities. Perhaps Dboss is right about Avery's need being more seasoning. But that sounds all too much like what I heard about Gerald Green for so long as well as Pruitt, Giddens and Walker.

In each case, the problem was not so much physical ability as aptitude for the game. Celtics players need a certain aptitude for the game because Celtics players are generally required to play intelligently. That doesn't mean their general IQ has to be exceptional; basketball instinct are different. And there just seem to be some players who never "get it." I'm terribly afraid that, despite his vaunted athleticism, despite his defensive potential, despite the degree of effort he apparently expends, he's not destined to fit into a situation involving high-level basketball mentality.

Of all the positions on the court, PG calls for that instinct. I hate to think I'm closed-minded, but I just don't believe Avery can meet that standard. And, as a 6' 2" shooting guard who doesn't possess an outstanding shot and falls short (literally) of most SGs in today's NBA, I just think he's such a long shot that they'd do better to cut their losses on him and free up a roster spot.

I always hear a lot about "showcasing," and frankly I feel most fans are infatuated with that concept much more than is merited by the actual use of that strategy. But I suppose it's remotely possible they played Avery nine minutes in order to showcase him. if so, I wonder how that worked out for them.

I believe it was NYCelt who tentatively predicted that Avery would be out of the rotation at some relatively early point in the season. I'm not into predicting, but I am into hoping. And I'm hoping he'll be gone sooner rather than later.

Perhaps he'll do a 180 and shock me, and I'd like nothing better because I bet he's a nice hard worker who deserves some good fortune. But, at this juncture, I'd be more than willing to take the risk that he'll become a star—or even a contributing rotation player—on another team.

No hard feelings, Avery. I really do wish the best for you. But somewhere else.

I'm fully aware that Avery will not make or break the Boston Celtics this season. There are loads of elements with greater impact on their success or failure. But I do believe that every game is important, and last night was an example of how a relatively short poor performance on the floor at a critical point can undermine a promising team effort. The Celtics need to build momentum as the season progresses, and I'm afraid Bradley's a momentum killer at this point in his career.

And I agree with you, Rosalie, in feeling the opposite way about the possibilities with respect to Moore.

Finally, I'd like to make a general observation that is not directly related to any of the above. I've been one of the many who have said, over the years, that Doc has an opportunity to see a lot of stuff in practices that we are denied. Well this may be one season when that's not so true. Practices—at least practices other than walkarounds or planning for specific games—will be at a bare minimum. If we normally see (just to pick a number) 30-40% of what Doc sees in terms of player performances, I won't be surprised if we see more like 70%-80% this season. Obviously, he has a more practiced eye than any of us, so he's got that going for him.

Sam

NO SUSPENSION OR FINE FOR GARNETT
By: Christopher Price


1
2 Comments
Celtics' forward Kevin Garnett will not be suspended for his part in the postgame fracas Sunday after Boston's loss to the Knicks, according to reports. Garnett, who mixed it up with New York's Bill Walker in the moments immediately following the Celtics' loss to New York, will not be fined or suspended for what happened, and will be able to play Tuesday night against the Heat in Miami. Garnett scored 15 points but missed a last-second jumper in Boston's 106-104 loss to the Knicks. For more Celtics news, check out weei.com/celtics.

112288

Sam

I really do not see how anyone can be too judgemental about Avery Bradley. We have not seen him on the court that often.

Last year he only got to play near the end of the year and from what I recall he played pretty good.

But you are correct. He does not have the type of PG skills to run this offense. Doc already figured that one out and decided that they want him to play off the ball. He is not the classic 2 guard but because of his athleticism he is able to get good shots off (just been misisng most of them)

Yesterday he Played 9 minutes and he played off guard as Dooling ran the point when he came in with 3 minutes left in the 1st quarter and played almost 3 minutes into the second QTR. He never played the point as either Rajon of dolling was running the point when he was on the court. He left the game with 10 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter after stepping out of bounds (his only turnover) He was 0-2 from the field for the game.

Boston was up by 10 89-79 at the start of the 4th qtr and melo dropped a 3 pointer to cut the lead to 7 89-82. After a Dooling miss and a Bass rebound, Avery stepped out of bounds and was replaced by KG with 10 minutes left in the game.

The point I am making is that Avery could hardly be blamed, as has been suggested, for a turning point in the game. He played sparingly and had virtually no impact on the game positive or negative.

I am of the opinion that Doc has a pecking order approach to giving minutes to the young guys but they have to be able to defend to get on the court. Doc is giving Avery some time to see what he can do. He must have earned it in practice and I think he still deserves a few more looks. If he is unable to perform then Moore may be the one to get an opportunity.

dboss

Dboss,
Sorry if I intrude into your discussion about AB.
I'm of the opinion that if mother nature gave you a gift to be, say basketball star player you will be if you put the remaining 95% but if you didn't get that gift you can do whatever: spend 20 hours a day in the gym, hire the best coaches, pray to whatever gods - you will not get there. In other words, there are Bill Walkers and there are Kevin Garnetts. So, IMHO, AB is not the latter.

AK

Sinus

You may be totally correct in you evaluation. But imo all of the evidence has not been presented yet. I am holding my final judgment until then. I still feel that next to rr he is the best on the ball defender on this team.

His offensive ability is still a question mark. I think he will get a few more chances..lets see what he does.

Dboss

Sam Dboss and Sinus

As mentioned AB is young, and Sam as you have said we have no idea what transpires in practice. AB might be a knock down dead Practice Player. I tend to agree with Dboss in that lets not rush to judgement. That said if a no brainer appears and is available, and we need to clear a spot..... well he is expendable.

beat

Dboss,

Of course it's usually ideal to give guys the time they need. But this happens to be a season in which Doc has said you have to throw guys into the fire. Teams don't necessarily have the luxury of easing guys into the rotation. And, after all, he's no longer a rookie.

I guarantee that, on the Celtics possession immediately preceding the one where Walker stepped out of bounds on the right side, he messed up a play on the left side. Whether or not he was charged with a turnover, his indecisiveness caused the Celtics to botch that possession too. It's sort of like the pass before the assist...this one being the rhythm-botcher before the turnover.

Whether as a point guard or as a shooting guard, the objective of having the ball on offense is to advance it. Bradley almost never advances it, either by pass or dribble. Everything is lateral with him, with the result that opponents can confidently press him, thereby disrupting what should represent 20% of the Celtics offense. He constantly over-dribbles, doesn't see the floor well, and gets himself in trouble.

Yes, he had a good game against a team going nowhere in what amounted to the garbage time final of last year's regular season. Personally, I thought the Knicks were going through the motions in that game.

Usually, I'd say that, once a player has demonstrated that type of ability, regardless of the circumstances, it can't be denied that he possesses that type of ability. But, in Avery's case, I've almost never seen any other sign that he has more than the most remote potential when the chips are down in important games. He just doesn't show me even an inkling of the kind of aptitude and instincts that were demonstrated almost immediately by Moore.

If they wanted to ship Avery to the D League, that would be one thing (although perhaps it would make it more difficult to sign some type of additional big). But trying to force him into the fire in this accelerated season seems to me to be an excellent way for the Celtics to get burned. In this shortened season, every single game is important, and teams are going to be playing in desperation mode more often than normally. It's hard to see Avery contributing much of a positive nature in that scenario.

You know that I usually go overboard to give any Celtic the benefit of the doubt. Where Avery is concerned, I just seem to be consumed by doubt.

Sam