Ray Allen wants a multi-year contract with the Celtics

If he is willing to play for a bit less - say $5 million per, then I say why not.

Even as a presence off the bench and in the locker room, he is worth that much.

No more than 2 years max and the price needs to be cut a lot. Father time says even that is a bit of a risk. He should know as well as anyone we need to free up some $$$$$ to get other good players in here. Beyond 2 years the pay would have to be cut a whole lot more.

beat

I'd LOVE to have Ray for two more years, im not sure how the new CBA will affect that though, can the team come to an understanding with Ray first, and once he;s off the books sign other players and when the roster is full go back and resign him (and hopefully KG)?

No way. His 10 million off the books is more valuable over the next couple of years(Salary Cap room) as the team rebuilds and looks to bring in young talent as a foundation for the future. However, that could change if somehow a move could be made this year that would make them a serious contender for the championship next year.
Swish

Matty wrote:I'd LOVE to have Ray for two more years, im not sure how the new CBA will affect that though, can the team come to an understanding with Ray first, and once he;s off the books sign other players and when the roster is full go back and resign him (and hopefully KG)?

Matty

Sorry Matty,but Ray's salary stays on the books until and if he signs with another team. They could sign other players but their salarys would have to come in under the salary cap, which could be quite difficult to do.
swish

swish wrote:No way. His 10 million off the books is more valuable over the next couple of years(Salary Cap room) as the team rebuilds and looks to bring in young talent as a foundation for the future. However, that could change if somehow a move could be made this year that would make them a serious contender for the championship next year.
Swish

5 million per - not 10.

you know who else makes 5 mil a year?

-Zaza Pachulia
-Ronnie Brewer
-boobie Gibson
-Charlie Bell
-Mario Chalmers
-Francisco Garcia

That is what $5 million per gets you. Ray Allen is worth more than ANY TWO of those clowns.

mrkleen09 wrote:

swish wrote:No way. His 10 million off the books is more valuable over the next couple of years(Salary Cap room) as the team rebuilds and looks to bring in young talent as a foundation for the future. However, that could change if somehow a move could be made this year that would make them a serious contender for the championship next year.
Swish

5 million per - not 10.

you know who else makes 5 mil a year?

-Zaza Pachulia
-Ronnie Brewer
-boobie Gibson
-Charlie Bell
-Mario Chalmers
-Francisco Garcia

That is what $5 million per gets you. Ray Allen is worth more than ANY TWO of those clowns.

Per hoopshype, Allens on the book for 10 mil this year.
swish

I voted yes, with the caveat being that the price isn't $10 million. I agree with what others have said in support of Ray, so there's no need to repeat those arguments.

The one thing I'll add is a counter to the argument that the Celtics need to clean house next year, get rid of all big 3 expiring contracts, and start fresh with new talent. That strategy presumes that young talent will want to come to Boston just because it's Boston, when the cupboard (beyond Rondo) is basically bare. You need something in place to help attract that talent, and Ray Allen is -- by far -- the member of the big 3 with the greatest prospect for longevity. Other NBA stars know how valuable Ray is, and a roster with him, even at 37, is far more attractive than a roster without him. In my view, he is an important part of the rebuilding process.

Outside

swish wrote: Per hoopshype, Allens on the book for 10 mil this year.
swish

Right, but we started this discussion with the assumption that Ray would need to take a cut to get a deal done.

What about $7.5m/year for 2 years for Ray?
I can't see him coming back for $5m.

swish wrote:

Matty wrote:I'd LOVE to have Ray for two more years, im not sure how the new CBA will affect that though, can the team come to an understanding with Ray first, and once he;s off the books sign other players and when the roster is full go back and resign him (and hopefully KG)?

Matty

Sorry Matty,but Ray's salary stays on the books until and if he signs with another team. They could sign other players but their salarys would have to come in under the salary cap, which could be quite difficult to do.
swish

i dont think thats what i meant. After this season Rays (and KG's) contracts are off the books, regardless of what happens after June.

so at the moment our contracts situationfor the 2012-2013 season looks like this:
Peirce, Rondo, Bass, Bradley, Johnson, Steimsma, Moore = $35,522,580

we also have as i understand it, both our own first and seconds & either the Twolves or clippers (less favorable- top 10 protected) first and the bucks second this summer. that will suck up another 5 million-ish.

so going into free aency, we're going to have 40 million-ish on the books, so about 16 million to spend.

what im wondering is, can we blow that on one player- say for the sake of argument- Dwight Howard or kevin Love (only if minny is incredably stupid), then resign Ray and KG since we have their bird rights?

im just thinking that if that was the case, sign one big name stud, then use the full MLE we'd have availible, THEN go back and get Green, KG, Ray and maybe a few guys like Wilcox, Peitras, Daniels and possibly JON if he lasts this season and we'd be in very good shape for next yr..

Matty wrote:

swish wrote:

Matty wrote:I'd LOVE to have Ray for two more years, im not sure how the new CBA will affect that though, can the team come to an understanding with Ray first, and once he;s off the books sign other players and when the roster is full go back and resign him (and hopefully KG)?

Matty

Sorry Matty,but Ray's salary stays on the books until and if he signs with another team. They could sign other players but their salarys would have to come in under the salary cap, which could be quite difficult to do.
swish

i dont think thats what i meant. After this season Rays (and KG's) contracts are off the books, regardless of what happens after June.

so at the moment our contracts situationfor the 2012-2013 season looks like this:
Peirce, Rondo, Bass, Bradley, Johnson, Steimsma, Moore = $35,522,580

we also have as i understand it, both our own first and seconds & either the Twolves or clippers (less favorable- top 10 protected) first and the bucks second this summer. that will suck up another 5 million-ish.

so going into free aency, we're going to have 40 million-ish on the books, so about 16 million to spend.

what im wondering is, can we blow that on one player- say for the sake of argument- Dwight Howard or kevin Love (only if minny is incredably stupid), then resign Ray and KG since we have their bird rights?

im just thinking that if that was the case, sign one big name stud, then use the full MLE we'd have availible, THEN go back and get Green, KG, Ray and maybe a few guys like Wilcox, Peitras, Daniels and possibly JON if he lasts this season and we'd be in very good shape for next yr..

Matty
I'll try to make it a little clearer for you. To prevent teams from doing exactly what you propose the Celts do, the league declared that a player whose contract has expired is counted against the teams salary cap until he signs with another team or retires. I can't remember the exact amount but I believe that there is even a surcharge of about 50% tacked on. At least thats the way I read it. Also, if a team is below the salary cap then the MLE IS REDUCED by the amount that the team is below the salary cap.
I"m writing this based on memory of passed readings on this matter. However, my memory ain't what it used to be.
swish

swish wrote:

Matty wrote:

swish wrote:

Matty wrote:I'd LOVE to have Ray for two more years, im not sure how the new CBA will affect that though, can the team come to an understanding with Ray first, and once he;s off the books sign other players and when the roster is full go back and resign him (and hopefully KG)?

Matty

Sorry Matty,but Ray's salary stays on the books until and if he signs with another team. They could sign other players but their salarys would have to come in under the salary cap, which could be quite difficult to do.
swish

i dont think thats what i meant. After this season Rays (and KG's) contracts are off the books, regardless of what happens after June.

so at the moment our contracts situationfor the 2012-2013 season looks like this:
Peirce, Rondo, Bass, Bradley, Johnson, Steimsma, Moore = $35,522,580

we also have as i understand it, both our own first and seconds & either the Twolves or clippers (less favorable- top 10 protected) first and the bucks second this summer. that will suck up another 5 million-ish.

so going into free aency, we're going to have 40 million-ish on the books, so about 16 million to spend.

what im wondering is, can we blow that on one player- say for the sake of argument- Dwight Howard or kevin Love (only if minny is incredably stupid), then resign Ray and KG since we have their bird rights?

im just thinking that if that was the case, sign one big name stud, then use the full MLE we'd have availible, THEN go back and get Green, KG, Ray and maybe a few guys like Wilcox, Peitras, Daniels and possibly JON if he lasts this season and we'd be in very good shape for next yr..

Matty
I'll try to make it a little clearer for you. To prevent teams from doing exactly what you propose the Celts do, the league declared that a player whose contract has expired is counted against the teams salary cap until he signs with another team or retires. I can't remember the exact amount but I believe that there is even a surcharge of about 50% tacked on. At least thats the way I read it. Also, if a team is below the salary cap then the MLE IS REDUCED by the amount that the team is below the salary cap.
I"m writing this based on memory of passed readings on this matter. However, my memory ain't what it used to be.
swish

swish,

It is called a Cap Hold. It can be between 150% and 300% of the player's last contract value, I think. (I'm going on memory as well) I think Glen Davis had a 300% cap hold during the last off-season.

It counts against the team salary unless the player is renounced or signs with another team. Once renounced, the Celtics would have to use the MLE or another exception to sign the renounced player, unless they are under the sal cap.

gyso

gypso
Thanks for the help. Retired didn't seem quite right but I just coudn't come up with renounced.
swish

Hi,
I voted yes with 13-15M/2yrs or 10-12M/3yrs in mind.

AK

Assuming that Pierce, Rondo, Bass, Bradley, JJJ, Stiesma and Moore will be on the Celtics next year, they will be under contract for approximately $36m.

The salary cap should increase to about $60m next year.
Boston will be able to sign a max player at $15m then will have $9m remaining. They could use that to resign Ray and/or Garnett. If Ray and Garnett each take $4.5m/year then they can keep them AND sign a max contract player. However they want to split it up, Boston should have $24m to work with next summer. A lot depends how much Garnett and Ray will accept to stay with Boston.

JON, Wilcox, Daniels, Pavlovic, Pietrus and Dooling are not under contract next year. They can re-sign them for minimum contracts or can fill out their roster by signing different players to veteran minimum contracts.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that Boston's 2 first round draft picks don't factor into the $24m that Boston should be under the cap. A team can go over the cap to sign their draft picks.

The offseason will be very difficult on an emotional level. It's set up to have all big 3 contracts expiring, which theoretically allows Boston cap flexibility. But what if all three want to continue playing and want to stay in Boston? Yes, they could play for less, but really how much less would they be willing to take?

Pierce is 34 and a lifelong Celtic making $13.8 million this season. My guess is that he's going to want to play for another 2-3 years. Are they really going to let him go to another team?

Garnett has been with Boston only a few seasons, but he has bought totally into being a Celtic and has been embraced as a Celtic through and through. Age is obviously catching up with him, and he may choose to retire after this season, but what if he doesn't? Will they let him go?

I've argued that Ray is in the best position physically and from a skills standpoint to play well over the next 2-3 seasons and that it makes sense to keep him in order to attract a top-flight frontcourt free agent. But that only works if the Celtics don't re-sign Pierce and Garnett, and that will be a very difficult thing to do. It's a business, and Ainge and Wyc can say it's a business decision to let two (or all three) of them go, but that would be a bitter pill for the Celtic faithful to swallow.

Once the season is over, it would be interesting to see a poll on whether the Celtics should re-sign two or all of the big 3 knowing that there would be no cap space for free agents.

Outside,

Pierce is under contract for 2 more seasons after this season.

I believe Pierce is making $15.3 million this season.

Sam

TJ and Sam, you're both correct. Geez, how many things can I get wrong in one post?