RAY ALLEN GOES TO THE HEAT

sam wrote: Reggie Lewis left the Celtics because he ingested crack cocaine. Was that a dignified departure that reinforced a great Celtics legacy? I think not. Is Reggie's number retired? Yes. In fact, Reggie's number was retired based at least as much on his playing potential as on his playing resumé

This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE....sorry to see Sam and the untouchable Jackie Mac spewing such nonsense.

Reggie Lewis suffered sudden cardiac death on the basketball court at an off-season practice on July 27, 1993 at Brandeis University in Waltham, Massachusetts. He was only 27 years old. Lewis had shown symptoms of heart problems in the preceding months (including collapsing during the opening game of their first-round playoff series with the Charlotte Hornets), and the cause of his death was subsequently attributed to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a structural heart defect that is considered the most common cause of death in young athletes.[2][3] James Crowley, a Brandeis University police officer who happened upon the gym on a routine patrol, and another Brandeis University police officer attempted to revive Lewis by using mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, but they were unsuccessful.[4] Following Lewis' death, it was alleged that Lewis had used cocaine, and that drug use may have been a contributing factor in his death.[5][6][7] However, a doctor who performed an autopsy on Lewis testified that the scarring on his heart was inconsistent with cocaine use

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Lewis#Death_and_legacy

Furthermore, the Lewis family sued the Wall Street Journal for 100 Million dollars over this BS libel.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950309&slug=2109213

Here are some quotes from this article, from those who would know.

NBA deputy commissioner Russ Granik said the Journal's story "is based entirely on speculation and has no real factual basis."

"To my knowledge, seeing Reggie on a regular basis, I would be shocked," to learn that he had used cocaine, said Celtics coach Chris Ford.

Teammate Dee Brown called the Wall Street Journal article "a bunch of crap.Lewis was clean "in every way possible," Brown said.

Wanna bet, Mrkleen? How about $1,000? I don't have a track history of spewing nonsense.

Sam

In fact, how about $10,000? I could use some easy money.

Sam

sam wrote:Wanna bet, Mrkleen? How about $1,000? I don't have a track history of spewing nonsense.

Sam

Lets see Sam. I can show you the "death record" and "autopsy report" that make NO MENTION of Cocaine...because they were unable to prove anything. What can you offer? - Jackie MacMullens hearsay - at a luncheon?

Sam

This really pisses me off. That you would come here, and berate members of this board for expressing strong opinions about Ray Allen (a hired gun who proved very little loyalty), and in the same post defame a Celtic legend who did so much for this city and died on the court.

My respect for you is reduced with each passing post on this subject.

Mrkleen,

Yup, and I'm sticking to it. You can call her "untouchable" and label what she said as "hearsay," but she knows vast amounts of the stories behind the stories. You offer press releases; and, frankly, I'd trust Jackie's account (when she had absolutely no reason to defame Reggie voluntarily to me—a relative stranger) over sanitized press releases. Apparently, you have no idea how much is withheld or "rearranged" in legions of news accounts.

Sam

Sam

You find me ONE report in writing the proves your allegation. Just ONE.

Fact is all you will find is a lot of hearsay, conjecture and a lot of BS.

The guy who wrote the article - Ron Suskind NEVER even mentioned the fact that Lewis had a heart murmur from a young age - and in that article in question, No doctor said on the record that cocaine was the cause of death, nor did anyone say they had ever seen the Celtic team captain use the drug.

Tell Jackie - get on the record or shut it.

Mrkleen,

I'm sorry if you're pissed off, and I'm particularly sorry your respect for me is diminishing because your respect means so much to me.

I'm so pissed off at the irrationality behind so many of these continuing diatribes that I spoke out about it as carefully as I could (after huge amounts of editing). I specified that I wasn't sanctioning members for having opinions of Ray, but I was appalled (still am) at the substantive lack of some of the reasoning, much of which seems emotionally driven rather than based on fact. Frankly, a lot of it is becoming over the top.

At any rate, I like to think that a couple of days has given everyone a chance to vent. It's becoming quite repetitive, and I hate to have new members (especially) thinking that we're mainly a bunch of negative people who so adroitly turn on someone who has meant so much to the Celtics.

Personally, I'm much more interested in making sure guys like Bass are really signed and in monitoring the proceedings of the Summer League. Maybe the next few days will head things in that direction. I certainly hope so.

Sam

Here is what you just said in the other Ray Allen post

sam wrote: So much of all this conjecture is based on partial rumors, guesswork and other fairy tales. It's just a shame that, when that's the case, it becomes to easy to gravitate to the negative view against a rock-solid Celtic fixture

Then you have the balls to do that very thing.....in this thread?

sam wrote:I specifically meant what I said. The information came directly to my ears from Jackie MacMullen's mouth when she was sitting beside me at a luncheon.

Are you kidding me Sam? You convey a story from Jackie MacMullen that is nothing more than "conjecture" and then chide others for that very thing.

What a hypocrite.

Mrkleen,

I stated that it wasn't a written report but an oral (and very concise) conversation. Not everything has to be in writing to be valid. That's why there's such a thing as oral contracts. I have no idea what article you're referring to, and it wouldn't matter anyway. I'd definitely trust Jackie's report than some sanitized news article.

I believe what I heard because (1) I respect the knowledge of the person who shared it and (2) she had absolutely nothing to gain by revealing it to me.

You don't have to believe it, but I'm certainly sticking with it because I'm sure it's true.

Sam

Mrkleen,

It wasn't conjecture. It was a flat-out statement of fact, mentioned by a person skilled in the discipline of not revealing anything that she hasn't checked carefully.

Nice try, though.

Sam

sam wrote:Mrkleen,

It wasn't conjecture. It was a flat-out statement of fact, mentioned by a person skilled in the discipline of not revealing anything that she hasn't checked carefully.

Nice try, though.

Sam

Actually Sam, statement of fact would be ON ESPN or in the BOSTON GLOBE.

Tell her to go ahead and state that BS on the record. Guess what, she never would...as she does not have the facts to back it up and would get sued by the Lewis Family and the Boston Celtics.

But nice try

Sam,

I find that hard to believe. If Jackie Mac knew...why didn't Red? He would not of drafted Bias if he was doing so predraft days.

In all my years I never heard that about Lewis. I do not like second hand accounts. Jackie Mac was not in that bathroom..........so it is second hand talk!

I hung around many of the NY Islanders personally in their Stanley Cup days and some NY Jets...and I know how bull shxt starts and gets around especially with reporters. The reporters or so called sources had Bobby Nystrom driving drunk one night............he was home with his girlfriend, and I was sitting right next to him watching TV! So much for scuttle butt talk!

112288

Okay, so let's close this subject, we all have a right to our opinions and we should all respect each other for that.

Sam-You know how much I respect and love you, let's move on as a Celtics family that we have become.

Hey, Jeff Green signed today. Who's next??????

Love
Rosalie

112288, that's a good question. I don't know whether Red knew and, if so, whether it was before or (more probably) after Bias' death. You might write Jackie to ask her.

It doesn't surprise me that no one on this board would have heard that about Lewis. It was hushed up. But she was certain of what she said. If you don't like second hand accounts, you must hate all news reports, since those making the news aren't usually reporting on it.

If you're talking about my part in it as being second hand, that's certainly fair. But, in addition to having an excellent memory, I wouldn't be likely to forget one word of that big a bombshell. Moreover, my best friend, (a 35-year member of the media) heard it from Jackie at the same time, and he and I have discussed it on several occasions since that time.

If Jackie had been in a bull session with a bunch of her peers, that might have been one thing. But this was a private conversation. Truthfully, I've sometimes wondered why she felt safe in sharing that information with me. One reason might have been because it was my media friend (whom she knows and trusts implicitly) who introduced us.

This was anything but scuttle butt talk. It was during the same conversation that Jackie and I spoke about the relationships between the Celtics and former players. I mentioned that Sam seemed disillusioned about the lack of recognition given to him by the current ownership. Jackie assured me that Sam was far from the only former great who felt that way. Just as I hadn't probed for any additional details in the cocaine revelation, I didn't push her for the names of any of the others, although I did mention that Bill Russell seemed to be around quite a bit. She mentioned that Russ is on the Celtics payroll to show up on certain occasions.

Sam

Rosalie,

Thanks for the nice words. What you're suggesting is exactly what I've been attempting to achieve with my various posts. I'll say it again. Time to move on.

Did Jeff Green really sign? I thought that wasn't legally possible until either July 9 or July 11 (I've read both dates). Even confirmation that all the details have been worked out and he's poised to sign would be good news.

Sam

Ray played great as a Celt. He was selfless and devoted and deserves our thanks and appreciation. He's entitiled to do whatever he wants with his life for whatever reason, misguided as we think his decision or motives may have been. He's a man, not a slave to our own basketball dreams. Thanks Ray> God bless.

His departure may actually be a blessing to the Celts, enabling Terry and Bradley to play more minutes and opening up space to sign Steemer or Kristic. Who knows? We certainly need help at center more than SG. Who knows if Ray's ankles will hold out?

Regarding Reggie, again, who really knows? What I can say with authority is that cocaine does affect cardiomyopathy adversely. Read http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/152535-overview#aw2aab6b3

Whether Reggie was doing cocaine only he really knows for sure. I prefer not to speak ill of the dead. I miss him and appreciated his play as a Celtic.

W,

I think you nailed it as far as the potential blessing (whether or not in disguise) for the Celtics with Ray's departure. People seem quite ill-at-ease about his diminishing capabilities. It's difficult to see how surgery could improve his performance on that end of the floor. Whatever the offense looks like, it's inconceivable to think the Celts won't have to rely on a strong defensive foundation.

Which is where the other blessing comes into play. If (let's hope) Bradley will be ready to roll, it could have been more dicey to rotate five guards than four (presumably Bradley, Rondo, Terry and either Pietrus or Dooling). Also, it would be nice not to see the defense suffer measurably regardless of who the guards are.

Did I read that you and Gyso will be getting together. I bet you'll both enjoy it, and I wish you a great time.

Sam

Sam,

Knowing you as I do and consider you a good friend....if you said Jackie Mac said that to you I believe you 100%........my question I would like answered is why did she tell you and others...what was the context of the conversation to get you to discuss Lewis & Bias?

112288

W

Yes Ray can do as he wishes...and he did....hooooooowervvvvver...

This was clearly orchestrated to FXXK Danny...period!

You ask why...how?

Simple if Ray went for more money I have no problem buying into that, but he clearly did not....$6million verses $3million,

Second, he imposed a ridiculous demand of $9million for 3 years knowing full well the Celtics would not...due to salary cap, and length ..... accept that deal.....what ........he would have been 40 years old at $9million per verses $3million the Heat are paying him,

Third, the Celtics not only offered him more $$$$money per year but were adding a no trade clause......wonder if he has that in his contract with Miami,

Fourth, If you are defending him on the basis of going to win a title with Miami.......that's where all defense of him breaks down.......what the Celtics with him on the team could not be playing for the Eastern conference title......if he thought the Celtics could not.......then he is a fake....."cause the Celtics with him had a deep and powerful bench .....not like this year where we were one game from the finals without Green and Bradly and Terry.

Fifth, Because of all the evidence listed above that this was carefully executed by Ray, he could of just said I'm not coming back.......the Celtic organization has done a lot for my family especially when my baby son got sick......hey do not protect me........save your cap money for others....and move on......or do a sign and trade with me.......but he played this out to hurt the Celtics in the long run!

No Ray acted like a BRAT.....oh I cannot get along with Rondo.....oh Danny had me traded........oh I'm not getting the ball enough.......oh I'm not getting courted like KG.......oh......oh..........

I'll paraphrase a quote by Gordon Gekko.........Ray you want to be loved......you want a friend............GO GET A DOG!

112288

I'LL ADD ON LAST THOUGHT........

I know because I read it at the time in all the Boston papers...........

When Ray's young son got sick while the Celtics were in the finals....the Celtics organization................threw him private jets......and pull for all the best medical care in Boston for Ray Allen............I guess that's how he treats family!

112288

112288 - Ray probably went to the Heat to spite Danny. He forsook $3M a year and put his family through the trouble of a move, but that's his prerogative. None of that invalidates what he did for the Celts and for us as fans. I don't buy that he went to the Heat for a ring vs. one he could get with the Celts. I THINK HIS PRIDE WAS HURT AND THAT HE FELT UNDERAPPRECIATED. He reacted with human passion, and I'm not going to fault him for that.

I'd just like touch on a tangential point to Ray's actual departure and that is the why of it.

He didn't like feeling like he was the most expendable member of the 3 Amigos. It hurt his pride. Well, I'm sorry Ray, but you haven't played your entire career with the Celtics, including on some very bad rosters, like Paul Pierce has. You also aren't the anchor of the offense like the way KG is the anchor of the defense. In short you were the most expendable, both from and emotional as well as an xs-and-os perspective. Gasol hasn't liked being jerked around year after year by Jim Buss, but he gets over it and balls.

Perhaps some of the blame should also rightfully be laid at the feet of the other moths circling this flame.

1. Rajon Rondo. Doc has been telling Rondo for years that some of his teammates don't like playing with him, that he's not being a leader, that he's acting immature. Rondo threw a ball at a ref this year. He pouted last year because his best friend on the team, Perk, was traded. Let's face it, Rondo is an arrogant, self-centered little shit. We tolerate him because of his talent, but if he's the hub of the Celtic wheel then he must comport himself like a hub that the spokes want to plug into. He fails in this often. Perhaps the silver lining in this is that he now realizes that what a leader says and how he says it has effects. Hopefully, instead of just saying "good, he's gone" Rondo is doing a little soul-searching and will turn a maturity corner.

2. Danny Ainge. We all know it's Danny's job to answer the phone and even pick up the phone and place a few calls himself. It seems to me, though, that he has been a little insensitive in how he does it. We know about the Rondo-for-Chris Paul rumors and how disruptive that was. Ray also had to deal with the fact that he was the subject of trade rumors two years in a row and that last year he was actually told to pack his bags, because he was going to Memphis, only to have that deal fall through at the trade deadline. For a guy who wouldn't tell his mother what he was having for dinner that night, it strikes me that Danny was quite sloppy and loose lipped in his handling of these potential roster changes. You're dealing with people here, Danny, with families. Treat them like you would treat your own family. If you can get David Falk and Jeff Green gushing over how you handled their situation why couldn't you have done that with Ray? What's more important, now, is how you handle players when trade rumors are swirling about them in the future.

3. Doc Rivers. He can't force two antagonized players to be kissing cousins, but it seems to me that by the time he tried to step in and heal the breach it was already too late. Ubuntu, Doc, remember? That wasn't just for 2008, that's the Celtic Way. Always and Forever. Of course, I can't know for sure how much effort he put into this throughout the year, but I've yet to read anything that suggests that he's been working hard on it for long. It looks like he tried to jump in after it was already trench warfare. Being the head coach is very tough job, and Doc is one of the best, but is it possible he coasted a bit, relying on the fact that everybody already knew each other, too much? A bit of a slap in the face to Doc here. Some of this vindictiveness by Ray allegedly stems from Doc not giving him his starting job back. I don't know how much weight to give that, since I don't see him starting ahead of DWade in Miami, but Ray is a proud man and Avery Bradley is not DWade. It's one thing to count on a player's professionalism, especially and including one with the reputation of being the consummate professional like Ray, it's another to take it for granted.

bob


.

Sam, Yes Pete Gyso and I will be feasting on some of Donna's scrumptious hamburgers again.

W,

Correct...his pride was hurt!

But for a little pride......he forgoes becoming a Celtic legend.....get his number retired.......and become a part of Celtic lure. I just do not get this.

5 years is just not long enough for him to even be considered to have #20 retired let alone how he went out.

Yes he helped us win so many memorable games...I forget how many times I've jumped off the sofa after Ray hit a game tying or winning shot.....and went to bed with a smile on my face!

It is his bed...he has to sleep in it......but I tell all Celtic fans...you cannot forget this!