RAY ALLEN GOES TO THE HEAT

Even if Jackie Mac said it, which I'm sure she did to you Sam, its still heresay, was she in the room when the kids/guys actually snorted? I doubt it, so whoever told her is all wrong on so many levels, as is Jackie Mac for even going there and telling this to you or anybody.

sorry didn't see 112288's comments on heresay which were similar to mine

bob nice post I can't blame Rondo for being mad at losing Perk, now we may have finally reaped some benefits, 2 years later, but these guys put so much into this game, remember Rondo playing with a dislocated elbow? who wouldn't want to go to war with Perk on your side? now to have that brother taken away, when you feel your team was so close, hes fockin human....I'd be pissed if I was him too.

Cow,

As I suggested earlier, Jackie is in a business where you don't last long unless you're scrupulous about checking everything carefully before you make it public in any manner. Jackie is not one to mouth off about unsubstantiated rumors. Whether or not you or anyone else chooses to believe that is not within the scope of my control.

My original point was that the timing of Reggie Lewis' abbreviated career denied him much of a "stage" to carve out a legendary career with the Celtics—certainly far less studded with heroic deeds than Ray's stint with the Celtics. And yet Reggie's number is retired despite what I'd consider a far less remarkable Celtics career than Ray had.

I also mentioned that I believe the way Reggie treated his body was not as exemplary as the way Ray treated his, and yet that fact didn't prevent Reggie from hanging up there with other legends. My conclusion was that it was the circumstances under which a player leaves a team don't normally have a major influence on his Celtics legacy. Cedric Maxwell could have been another example.

Rather than just making an empty assertion about the way Reggie treated his body, I cited a reason based on information I trusted from one of the most unimpeachable media sources (at least in my estimation). It was not the first time I had referred on this board to that revelation by Jackie, so I didn't consider it a big deal to bring it up again.

Unlike the earlier time I had alluded to Jackie's report, this time some people elected to ignore my main point and focus on what I guess was more titillating for them. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last time that people ignore my central point and divert their attention to a subsidiary element of my post.

Sam

112288,

I can't recall the specific context. I know the early part of our conversation involved my question about Jackie's take on how Celtics legends felt about their relationships with current ownership. I shared my own concerns about Sam's disappointment. She was very aware of Sam's disenchantment and added that he wasn't alone. She became interested in my relationship with Sam, and then the conversation broadened to other topics relating to former players. I honestly can't recollect the specific antecedent for her comments about the crack cocaine, but her unsolicited remarks shocked me so much that I definitely recall them nearly verbatim.

I do believe the period of time relating to the cocaine incident occurred when Jackie was experiencing her heaviest day-to-day involvement with the Celtics as a Globe reporter.

Sam

Sam,
You really didn't need to step into this RA conversation in a controlling manner. We all have freedom of speech and you have provided a forum where we can "vent". Let us do so, in our own manner, in our own way. When we are done, we will stop on our own. Or, more likely, when the next big news story comes out. It is the way of the sports fan. lol As far as the Lewis conversation, I firmly believe I know the "secrets" behind the JFK assassination because I believe my source, the former mayor of Port au Prince, Haiti. A lot of what he told me was hearsay, just as what Jackie told you was hearsay. Doesn't mean it isn't true, nor does it mean it is. It is what it is. I guess we don't feel the same about some things, that's ok with me as I've clearly gone off the deep end. Speaking of which, did you get my private email? Anyway, I'm ready to move on. I've had my say. I don't like the way RA handled this situation and I will not root for him, I will boo him. Oh well....As the olde ladie said when she kissed the cow, each to their own. LOL

Alot of players did alot of that same stuff David Thompson, Michael Ray, they're still alive, the facts are he died of a bad heart, and thats all. One isn't always related to the other, and I agree with mulcogiseng.....the world isn't white, bright and polite, theres alot of gray areas, alot of us have all met and been posting here for years, if posters opinions on Ray are different than yours, let it go.....Ray did leave in a bad classless shocking manner, he did screw his teamates that have been covering his deficiencies on the floor for years.

I lost alot of respect for Jackie Mac that she would even say something like that to anyone when she wasn't even there firsthand.

Focus people,

The Celtics are who we love, everything else comes second.

Dont let the love get lost in hatred.

bottomline Jackie Mac is like alot of women I've dealt with over the years, they talk too much, don't know when to shut up. I doubt during that conversation on Sam Jones feelings that you suddenly probed about anyones drug use? she obviously talks too much to just switch gears and throw out that kind of information to someone, while worthy, she just met.

worcester wrote:Sam, Yes Pete Gyso and I will be feasting on some of Donna's scrumptious hamburgers again.

was in Boston recently, wheres the best burger in Beantown?

Mulcogi,

Yes, I received your message, and I owe you a response. Sorry about that.

As for what goes on with the board, I do feel a certain responsibility to monitor not only the substance of individual messages but also the overall tone of the board. There are some instances in which no individual message involves cursing or name-calling or other obvious affronts but the cumulative effect or tone gets a little over the top—to the point where it becomes a problem for some people and I hear about it by private message.

In this case, I've never once said people shouldn't criticize Ray. My concern was the repetitive emotional spewing of some of the ways in which it was done. I think the board is better than that. Apparently, so do some of the board members. To do nothing under the circumstances would have been irresponsible on my part.

Thanks for your comments.

Sam

Boring! Let's talk basketball, please.

How about the match-ups against Miami now? Will Bradley be the one to cover Ray, or should Rondo do it? Rondo knows Ray's game inside out and possibly has some extra motivation to shut him down. Also, Bradley did a bang-up job on DWade and deserves the opportunity to continue it.

K.C. Jones is in the Hall partly because he was the only guy in the league who could cover Jerry West. You can bet that every player in the league, and the refs, know that Bradley blocked Wade's shot. Can he do it again? Can he get better? Can he block Ray? Ooooh! Wouldn't that be fun? It's so interesting that I can't wait til we play Miami next season.

Allen will fit in pretty well on the Heat since he needs to be covered or he will knock down the open 3, does not even have to do a lot of running if he does not want to.

All the need to do is surround Lebron and Wade with people who can put down their open shot meaning people can not double off of them. Allen will provide that.

They will probably put him on whoever the weakest attacker is 1-3 but he will have a hard time defending the premium SGs and such although he probably wont have to since they have Wade/Lebron and he might be up more against second units.

Terry is a better fit for the Celtics at this stage since he can create his own shot, play pg and is a better defender.

Sort of a win/win for all parties basketball wise (short of opposition getting stronger) but I will stay out of the can of worms that is loyalty.

HEY COW-----EXCUSE ME!!!! TALK TOO MUCH!!!!DON'T KNOW WHEN TO SHUT UP!!!!!DO YOU WANT ME TO GIVE YOU MY OPINION ABOUT MEN?????????

Just joking my friend, I am loaded with opinions that I have kept to myself over this issue.

Spike & DBoss--you are right! Let's get back to the matters at hand, doesn't the summer league start this week. I don't have the NBA channel wish I could watch a little, I am beginning to have basketball withdrawal symptoms. Bring on the Patriots, please! That will keep me busy for a while.

Rosalie

hehehe Rosie

so can we get to more important matters, wheres the best burger in Beantown? someone help me out here!!

I wish I could help you but I don't eat beef!!!! Not because I don't like it, but it doesn't like me! Wish I could tell you. Best barbeque is Blue Ribbon, in Arlington and Newton, absolutely awesome. My husband and son love it there. that's the best I can do!!!!Sorry.

worcester wrote:112288 - Ray probably went to the Heat to spite Danny. He forsook $3M a year and put his family through the trouble of a move, but that's his prerogative. None of that invalidates what he did for the Celts and for us as fans. I don't buy that he went to the Heat for a ring vs. one he could get with the Celts. I THINK HIS PRIDE WAS HURT AND THAT HE FELT UNDERAPPRECIATED. He reacted with human passion, and I'm not going to fault him for that.

I know we're trying to move past this. But I'll weigh in a bit, since a lot has been said to this effect.

Just because X is someone's prerogative does not mean that X is above reproach. If you have a prerogative to do something, it means no one can stop you. It does not mean that you're elevated above criticism. Of course everybody knows it was Ray's prerogative to do what he did. It was also Lebron James' prerogative to host an ESPN special regarding his "decision." That people react negatively to the way prerogatives are exercised sometimes does not threaten their status as prerogatives (or, rights). It threatens their status as actions worthy of esteem. And there's nothing inconsistent about that. I do happen to think, for reasons others have cited, that Ray executed his decision (which was, of course, just to emphasize, well within his rights) in a sort of distasteful way that undermines his reputation as a "professional." Part of watching basketball, for better or worse, involves watching human beings play basketball and interact with one another in the process. Just like in the real world, when we watch sports, we want to root for the guys who are good off the court or field, as well as on it. That's why we cringe when people like Ben Rothelesburger and Kobe Byrant succeed. And that's why we root for bad players (like Walter McCarty, for example!) despite the fact that they're awful. Normal expressions of praise/blame do not evaporate just because it's a game or a business. Nor are they misaligned when directed toward actions that were well within the actor's prerogative.

ONE THING NO ONE HAS CONSIDERED.............RAY WALKS TO MIAMI WITH ALL OUR PLAYS AND DOC'S PLAY BOOK!

112288

112288 wrote:ONE THING NO ONE HAS CONSIDERED.............RAY WALKS TO MIAMI WITH ALL OUR PLAYS AND DOC'S PLAY BOOK!

112288

And Jermaine O'Neal spent 2009 & 2010 with Miami, came to us for 2011 and 2012 and brought all the Heat's plays to us.

Unfortunately when Doc looked at the book it had one page and it said "Lebron goes one on one."

GOOD ONE STEVE!

112288

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob nice post I can't blame Rondo for being mad at losing Perk, now we may have finally reaped some benefits, 2 years later, but these guys put so much into this game, remember Rondo playing with a dislocated elbow? who wouldn't want to go to war with Perk on your side? now to have that brother taken away, when you feel your team was so close, hes fockin human....I'd be pissed if I was him too.

cowens,

Paul Pierce's best friend on the Celtics in the early to mid 2000s was Antoine Walker. When he got traded to Dallas for Raef etc, that was a big blow to him, not just because they were best friends but because 'Toine was the other all-star on the team that took the scoring load and pressure off of Pierce. Pierce kept playing through it.

I've had friends at work that got fired and/or didn't get fired but got screwed somehow. I didn't pout about it, I said my good-byes, promised to keep in touch and then soldiered on. So did Pierce when Walker left even though the team was significantly inferior afterwards. I'm sure we can all come up with other examples too.

"Pissed"? Yes. "Pout"? No. Rondo didn't focus his anger/frustration/lonliness at the other team. We've all seen how he gets emotionally detached.

Rondo is a great player. His jumpshot took HUGE steps forward last year and I'm hoping that will translate into better free throw shooting this year, but that doesn't mean he's not a little prima donna.

Will Pierce and/or KG pout because Ray's gone? My money says no.

bob


.

Paul handles Toine's departure with class, grit, and determination to see the Celtics once again become a great team - and it worked. Rondo? Yes, great player but is still in the process of growing up. Ray? Yes it was his prerogative to leave and it's everyone's right to criticize him for it. I just suggest that people remember all the good he did for us and consider that he's acting upon his hurt feelings. I've done things I've regretted later when acting upon hurt feelings. Fortunately there weren't millions of fans out there commenting on my actions!

Steve - funny joke about the Miami playbook. Kudos!

I strongly doubt it. It will be interesting though in the first game against Miami. Will Rondo cover Ray???? What happens when KG jumps out of position to deny him from getting the ball??? Pierce will be the one guy who I can see being detached from it all.


Rosalie

worcester wrote:Paul handles Toine's departure with class, grit, and determination to see the Celtics once again become a great team - and it worked. Rondo? Yes, great player but is still in the process of growing up. Ray? Yes it was his prerogative to leave and it's everyone's right to criticize him for it. I just suggest that people remember all the good he did for us and consider that he's acting upon his hurt feelings. I've done things I've regretted later when acting upon hurt feelings. Fortunately there weren't millions of fans out there commenting on my actions!

Steve - funny joke about the Miami playbook. Kudos!

worcester - It's not a joke. It's a true story. Jackie MacMullen told me that one night when we were hanging out in a bar.

Even funnier Steve!