Bleacher Report with Rondo

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1318290-rajon-rondo-dishes-on-his-current-and-future-status-with-the-boston-celtics

A few highlights:

- He grew up playing basketball in flip flops. Huh?
- He thinks he's "7-8 years away from being the greatest Celtic point guard"


Some nice stuff there, I don't want to hit on everything. Being on a team where the "pass-first" point guard was minted, he's right at home here. Read for yourself.

bob


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Now, as long as we're on the subject of Rondo, here's an article in International Business Times about Rondo predicting he'll end up the greatest point guard to ever play for the Boston Celtics. A pail of cold water here.


Boston Celtics News: Rajon Rondo Sets Impossible Goal

Posted by Contributor: Glenn Davis | August 31, 2012 4:24 PM EDT

Rajon Rondo recently stated to ABS-CBN news that he hopes he is able to end his career "as the best to ever play" point guard in the history of the Boston Celtics. This is an admirable goal, but since he plays for a National Basketball Association team that had Bob Cousy on its roster for thirteen seasons, it is an unattainable one.

Cousy is on a short list of the most dominant NBA players of the 1950's. He amassed a career of achievement that was unrivaled upon his retirement in 1963 and five decades later has only been matched by a small number of players. He was a thirteen-time All-Star, a twelve-time All-NBA team selection, a two-time All-Star game Most Valuable Player, the 1957 regular season MVP and a member of six Celtic championship teams. Furthermore, he led the league in assists eight times, was an eighty percent career free-throw shooter and a bona-fide scoring threat. He averaged over twenty points per game four times and twice finished second in the NBA in average points scored per game.

A more attainable goal for Rondo would be to finish his career as one of the five best point guards in Celtics history, but even this will not be an easy accomplishment. Besides Cousy, the Celtics have had three Hall of Famers and a perennial All-Star play the position. K.C. Jones, Jo Jo White, Nate "Tiny" Archibald and Dennis Johnson, all dominant point guards who have been interchangeable in spots two through five behind Cousy for the past twenty-five years. Rondo alluded to the difficulty of breaking into this list when he also commented to ABS-CBN news that "it is kinda too early to place my mark on where I am in Celtics history as a point guard."

With so many great predecessors it is easy to see how Rondo is unsure about his present ranking on the team's all-time point guard list. Jones was considered an elite defensive point guard before such talents were recognized by the NBA with regular season awards. He played on eight Celtic championship teams and was the man who succeeded Cousy. His efforts earned him an induction into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1989.

White played point guard on two Celtic championship teams and was a major reason why the franchise was the most dominant NBA team of the mid 1970's. He was named to seven consecutive All-Star teams, a two-time second team All-NBA selection, the 1976 Finals MVP and was one of the elite scoring point guards of his era. Although he has yet to be inducted, his credentials are worthy of being a member the Hall of Fame.

Archibald came to the Celtics on the downside of an All-Star career that included being the only player to ever lead the NBA in assists and scoring in the same season. With the Celtics he was named to three more All-Star teams, earned the 1981 All-Star MVP award and won a championship. Archibald's achievements with the Celtics made him a Hall of Fame player and he was inducted in 1991.

Johnson joined the Celtics in 1983 and helped the team win two championships and take four consecutive trips to the NBA Finals. During his seven seasons with the Celtics Johnson was a four-time selection to the All-NBA Defensive team and a 1985 All-Star. His defensive play on Magic Johnson in the 1984 Finals is considered key to the Celtics championship victory that season. Like Archibald, Johnson's achievements with the Celtics catapulted him from excellent to Hall of Fame status, he was inducted in 2010.

Rondo's achievements to date are impressive. He is a three-time All-Star, four-time All-NBA Defensive team selection, and helped the Celtics win the 2008 championship. He also led the 2012 NBA season in average assists per game and holds the franchise record for consecutive games with double-digit assists. But however remarkable these accomplishments, by themselves they are not enough for Rondo to presently crack the Celtics top five all-time point guard list.

The four men who currently sit behind Cousy have established such a high standard for point guard play in a Celtic uniform that the only way for Rondo to surpass any of them is to be inducted in to the Hall of Fame. Only time will tell if he is able to complete such a career and if he does the debate regarding his place on the Celtics list of greatest point guards can truly begin.


bob


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Let's get serious here. And you might as well listen too, Rondo? Rondo? Rondo? Try to pry yourself away from the mirror and take note.

Technically, there haven't been many point guards for the Celtics. They were called "playmakers" in the early years—and for good reason. Their primary job was to create plays forr their teammates.

There are two ways in which to do that: in the half court and in transition. For some time now, the Celtics starting team has FAR too often not stagnated in the half court with Rondo at the helm. I'm certainly not claiming that the problem lies exclusively with Rondo. The coaching must share some responsibility. But he has been playing with three future hall-of-famers whose skills complement one another nicely. And he's been playing with them long enough that the halfcourt chemistry should improve, not deteriorate.

But the PG must ultimately bear the brunt of the responsibility for a lagging half court offense. And I believe I know the reason why, although he collects a lot of assists, Rondo's half court game is of no better than average. Here it it:

Rondo executes plays. He doesn't create them. And there's a world of difference between the two. Think about it. On many successful Celtics halfcourt plays, Rondo stands at the perimeter and waits for Ray to curl or Kevin to go to the hoop or Paul to move behind a screen or some variation on these themes. Rondo then passes the ball for an assist; and, to his credit, he usually passes it accurately and sometimes even threads the needle adroitly.

But I believe that, where the halfcourt is concerned, a PG must execute well simply to be average. It's in CREATING plays for teammates where greatness emerges. Cousy was seldom still on the floor. Nash is the same way. They move(d) around, sometimes dribbling,sometimes swinging the ball and moving to a spot where they gain greater leverage when they get the rock back. They're looking for that edge: the passing angle that can be improved with one more dribble; the pick just waiting to be set; a split second matchup advantage; all manner of opportunities—some that can be taken advantage of instantly and others that need to be ripened. The great PG plans several moves ahead, luring the defense into moves that may put them at a disadvantage later in the same possession.

And they're always in attack mode—always. Too frequently in the forecourt, Rondo plays a reactionary game rather than an instigator game. See my previous statement about waiting for his teammates to cut, etc. He can be masterfully aggressive in spurts, and sometimes those spurts last an entire game...or longer. But the halfcourt consistency just isn't there.

I've been one of the people who says that Rondo's at his best in the open court. And I believe it. But now I'm wondering whether I believe it because he's so great in transition or because he's just comparatively better in transition than in the halfcourt.

Why do so many Celtics fast breaks fizzle to the point that I always hold my breath when they start one? Sure, someone may have been slow in filling a lane or may have pulled up just when Rondo unleashed a long pass. But, now that I really think about it, maybe the reason we all get so excited when Rondo and friends pull off a great fast break is because it doesn't happen all that often. (We practically used to yawn when Cousy pulled off another one.) In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the current Celts got at least as many fast break points off turnovers as they get from a Rondo-initiated transition. I know the Celtics yield a lot of points off their own fast break turnovers.

If anyone's going to criticize me for dissing Rondo, forget about it. I'm not dissing him; I'm writing a sincere critique for which my overall context is strong admiration for his game at PG. I hope he continues his improvement. But that's the point. Serious improvement is needed for him to be considered among the greats.

Clearly, his teammates to date haven't been built for the speed game; practices have often been limited in concessions to age; and any fault for shoddy transition game may possibly belong to everyone except Rondo. Even in the coming season, who knows how much time he'll get with the best lane-fillers on the team? But we can be pretty sure he'll get a lot of minutes with the starters, and here's hoping for a major upgrade at least in the halfcourt offense.

As far as joining the greats.....sorry Rondo. You're very good, and I'm ecstatic that you're a Celtic. But you're far, far away from any adjective with the letters "est" at the end. And your progression will have to increase dramatically for you to justify the most remote thought of it.

Sam

It seems that Celtics players don't set picks for Rondo. They set them for Ray to curl off of. For KG to pop off of. For Bass to roll off of. Rondo stands there, at the top of the key and watches it all unfold. I can't help but wonder what we'd look like if players were setting picks for Rondo and he used them to disrupt the defense.

bob


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Bob, who knows? When I mentioned picks, I was actually talking about picks for Rondo's teammates. But you make a very good point. I'm hoping some of these younger guys (notably Sullinger) will set some jarring picks. Most of the picks I see the Celts setting lately have been brush picks that actually telegraph an impending pick-and-roll.

I'd really like to see Nellie (who goes into the Hall of Fame later this month) have a chance to convince Doc to expand his offensive horizons somewhat. They've got the personnel with which to do it.

Sam

Bob et al.,

This is an interesting conversation because every post sparks additional thoughts.

Through the past few years, much has been made of the issue of trust among the players. That wasn't really a factor in the Cousy years. They were all quick learners, had a great teacher, and benefited from a straightforward offensive system with an exit strategy (are all you politicians listening?) known as "the weave." They were better able than the players of today to focus on the less tangible elements of the game.

And what was arguably the greatest benefit of all of that was how readily and comprehensively they developed a "feel" for each teammate and his tendencies. When the action cried out for a pick to be set, they didn't have to recall a playbook instruction. It was an instinctive no-brainer because the situation called for it, and the teammates' tendencies called for it, and the flow of the game called for it. Some people called it a shared sixth sense. Whatever the nomenclature, all five of them could count on the pick happening when and where it should, and they could have total confidence in carrying out their respective roles accordingly.

Hey, I don't call it "Basketball Camelot" for nothing.

Sam

Might as well keep this all in the same thread. Here's a Bleacher Report article that lists "7 reasons why Rajon Rondo with be in the MVP Conversation".

Just 26 days or so until we start talking about real basketball.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1296494-7-reasons-rajon-rondo-will-be-in-the-2012-13-mvp-conversation


bob


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Bob,

I'm not trying to downplay Rondo or his feelings about the Celtics, but if you weren't aware of bleacherreports.com, they are not exactly a reputable news source. They churn out story after story just to get out a story.

Just on the Celtics page on the Bleacher Reports website, there are many positive stories and there are some about how Boston won't contend for the title this year.
Almost everything they post is an opinion piece by the writer.
On the same day there can be multiple stories about the same team, all having different opinions in them.

Whether the stories are for or against my team or other teams, I try to stay away from the Enquirer, I mean Bleacher Reports.

tjmakz wrote:Bob,

I'm not trying to downplay Rondo or his feelings about the Celtics, but if you weren't aware of bleacherreports.com, they are not exactly a reputable news source. They churn out story after story just to get out a story.

Just on the Celtics page on the Bleacher Reports website, there are many positive stories and there are some about how Boston won't contend for the title this year.
Almost everything they post is an opinion piece by the writer.
On the same day there can be multiple stories about the same team, all having different opinions in them.

Whether the stories are for or against my team or other teams, I try to stay away from the Enquirer, I mean Bleacher Reports.

TJ,

I mentioned, somewhere on some thread, about how these guys seem to blow a lot of smoke. I don't post these links because I necessarily agree with them, in fact I often disagree with them, but just to stimulate some conversation. Refuting a writer's opinion is as legitimate an effort as extolling it, as long as you can back up your critique or support.

I think one could say that almost every article written by just about every sportswriter is an opinion piece. John Hollinger's opinion is based upon his flawed measurement metric, PER, and very few other writers even try to base it on that much. The focus should be on identifying whether their conclusions are valid, flawed or incomplete because of the omission of a major factor.

I'm agreeing with you, TJ, about their lack of quality. I'm also saying that's beside the point. In a month or so, when we have real basketball to opine about, then we should expect to see the quality of opinions stated improve. I suppose that includes mine as well.

bob

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Most of you know that I have been a big Rondo fan since the beginning. At that time I said that he would vie for the elite in all time Celtic pg play. Is he there yet? No. Is he in the discussion? Yes. Why? Because we are having that discussion right now. Is he in the top five? Mebbe. Does he have a real chance? Absolutely. All he really has to do is stay with the Celtics and eventually, as with the others, his totals will become so impressive that to think otherwise would be just plain silly. What is most impressive about Rondo for me is that is upside is still so great. He has not had the complement of players to make him shine. Yet shine he has. The old guys don't like to run but run they will knowing they will get the ball from Rondo. Do they run as much as some of us would like? No. Do they run more than they would like? I surely think so and the reason is Rondo. We can revisit this conversation yearly from now on. In another five years or so we will really start to have a more definitive answer. Why is it possible to seriously consider the fact that Rondo could challenge as best pg of all time on the best franchise of all time? Because Rondo believes he will get there and that is half the battle. We have yet to see Rondo in his prime. He is still growing, still learning the game at this elite level. I for one would have no problem showing up for a game wearing #14 or #9, if only I could afford one. lol

Rosalie, I agree that Lee, Terry, Green and Bradley could potentially make good running mates for Rondo. Which would be great because, with all deference to Mulcogi, I don't believe Rondo has progressed all that far in his ability to create plays for his teammates. As I mentioned above, in the forecourt, he tends to be reactionary rather than a playmaking instigator.

The only problem with the running scenario is that, of the group comprising Lee, Terry, Green and Bradley, only one of the four (probably either Lee or Bradley) is likely be on the first unit with Rondo. Yes, Doc can expand Rondo's minutes by giving him time with both the starters and the bench. But there are downsides to that, not the least of which is carving out sufficient minutes for Terry at the PG position.

Sam

Lee starts, Bradley doesn't play until Dec or Jan. Then this question becomes relevant . My guess it will all depend on the chemistry of the unit when Bradley returns. Doc will put the best team on the floor that he can. (minus rooks of course lol)
Not really so amazing when you consider that sportwriters hate all Boston teams and usually never have anything good to say no matter what. Only one month to go before we see the travelog to Europe. Not holding my breath yet, but can't wait. My guess is this will be one of the few regrets in RA's illustrious career.

Sam, I'll bet you 50 cents that you will admit at the end of the season that Rondo has improved in those areas you view him deficient. Winner pays to watch the elephant jump the fence. Deal? lol

Mulcogi,

No bet, but I hope you're right. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rondo improved in the halfcourt because, whether Lee or Bradley is a starter, I believe they'll offer Rondo more options than Ray did. Both can go to the hoop, and both can shoot from the perimeter and from midrange (unless Avery's showing last season was a fluke).

And, if Doc can convince these guys to set solid picks, Rondo should be very good at delivering the ball in the pick and roll.

And I think Rondo has improved in the halfcourt up to now. He has definitely perfected the drive and dish technique. Otherwise, I think his front court play has improved to the adequate point.

One thing I'll be looking for in terms of Rondo's halfcourt improvement will be the average number of shots the Celtics get and/or the length of their average possession. I don't believe it's a coincidence that (1) he does hold the ball a lot on the perimeter and (2) the Celtics offense so frequently stagnates and often permits them to run only one option before the shot clock expires. Certainly, his teammates must share some the responsibility, but the primary responsibility belongs to the point guard.

I found his comparison of the quarterback position and the point guard position to be interesting. My "take" is that, in the passing game, the quarterback typically waits for a receiver have a good shot at breaking free before delivering a hopefully well-timed pass. I hope that's not Rondo's mindset as a PG because it could be a severe limitation to his improvement.

Sam

Hi,
Sorry for kind of CPR for the thread, but I just came across this article about RR.

I agree with main premise - he's like an artist. And when he's in the groove the results are fantastic and it's pure please to watch his game.

AK

Rondo wont reach the accomplisments that Bob Cousy was able to achieve - but to suggest he cant crack the Celtics Top 5 PG is silly.

DJ was a big part of the 80's Celtics - and won two titles here. Bird loved him and he was a great teammate and defensive stopper. But if Rondo retires with 3 titles - and a number of additional NBA all star and all defensive team appearances, he will absolutely be in the discussion with DJ.

Tiny was a great NBA player - but played his best years in Kansas City. He was a big part of the 1981 title team - but again if Rondo wins one or two more titles....he will certainly leap past Tiny in the Celtics history books.

If Rondo never wins another title....this may all be moot. But add in a banner or two more, and there is no way Rondo doesnt make the top 5.

Mrkleen

Curious if you don't have Rondo in the top five now. Who are the ones in front of him? Obviously you mentioned Cousy DJ and Tiny. There is Sam. Not sure how much PG KC played.

I am guessing JoJo but he was sort of more of a shooting guard but Chaney was certainly not the PG on those teams. As for another PG ???

beat

Beat

I didnt watch Jo Jo too much....so not sure where to put him position wise. He was a better player than Rondo imo, so he would be ahead of Rajon if you want to consider him a PG...but not sure about that.

I have it

-Cousy
-KC
-DJ
-Rondo
-Tiny

Mrkleen

KC really only had 4 seasons has the #1 point guard after Cousy retired in 63, KC hung them up after the 67 season.

As for JoJo on the teams from the 70's there really wasn't a point guard IMHO but JoJo played guard and certainly the PG wasn't his running mate Chaney nor Scott or Westphal. Perhaps it could be considered that the guy named Hondo ran the point as much as anyone as the ball almost always went thru him on offense.

Tiny was here so little for us it is hard for me to put him up there but he sure was a handful for a guy his size.

beat

Beat,

Sam played almost exclusively at SG. KC played almost exclusively at PG.

Sam

Great picture, with the ring front and center, as it should be.







bob

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