hard to watch

Well fellas we are 8-3 with a whimper. We got no answer for anybody at all on defense and our Offense aint much better. We are looking a step slow on both sides of the ball. We cant build on hard earned leads. We made a mediocre team of scrubs look like the 87 Lakers tonight.

WHat do yall think is wrong/ Growin pains? Father time? Effort? Coaching?

Granted Sheed and Eddie are in bad shooting funks and it is hurting us. On o it may be as easy as the extra pass and better form.

I'm at a loss.

seriously starting to adjust my expectations. Hope Doc can right the leaky ship.

Good lord I cant believe Crawford is still calling games.

I think they thought they could mail it in. This is disappointing. I know they lost the game themselves, but something has got to be done about Joe
Crawford. He is the most antagonistic ref out there.

Rondo is shooting 3 of 12 from the FT line so far this season after 11 games. My goodness. He is hardly getting to the line at all and then he can't convert. 10 pts and 4 assists tonight. If the C's are step slow, it certainly starts with our PG.

I would have prefered a root canal w/o novocaine tonight. Unfortunately, my dentist could not work me in at the last minute... so I watched.

Both KG and Pierce seem to be hobbling tonight. SW and RayRay looked very good. KG's offense is still progressing. Still plenty of time to work out the kinks.

Lets get BBD back into the mix pronto. Could use some of his energy.

gc

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I think they thought they could mail it in. This is disappointing. I know they lost the game themselves, but something has got to be done about Joe
Crawford. He is the most antagonistic ref out there.

Rosalie,

I think you got it with the "mail it in" idea. The Cs got off to a great start this season, we starting thinking about 72 wins, and I'll bet the players, even if only subconsciously, thought well we'll just cruise for 3 quarters, then turn it on if need be and we'll pull out the win easily. Just too much talent in the NBA to expect to win without bringing it every night.

My guess is Doc will read them the riot act and we'll get back to the 48 minute effort again soon.

Rosalie

One thing I dug was that EVERY single person an the game thread knew exactly who Crawford was and what type of guy he is. Lot of knowledge on this board.

Right now I wish Bill Fitch was coaching the team. At least for the next few days. Talk about readin some people the riot act.

jeb65 wrote:Right now I wish Bill Fitch was coaching the team. At least for the next few days. Talk about readin some people the riot act.

Many are just collecting pay checks the last 4 games! Has Doc lost the team!

112288

NAW I dont think so. But there is trouble. It needs a lot of work.

No focus. I hope Doc gets tough on em.

I generally like Doc as a coach, and I didn't see the Pacer game. However, I did see something in the Atlanta game that bothered me.

Late in the fourth quarter with the Celts down but still enough time to come back, Doc called timeout. What bothered me was that he spent the majority of the timeout complaining to the refs instead of talking to his team about doing what was needed to win the game.

In the recap of the Pacer game, I read that Doc, Perk, and Rasheed all got techs in the fourth quarter, with Doc's coming first. Doc said that the techs contributed to the team's unraveling.

Calls go against you in basketball. If you're a coach or player (or fan), you think the calls go against your team, but so do the guys on the other team. You have to keep your head, recognize you're not going to get all the calls, and play to win the game. And the attitude a team takes toward the refs starts with the coach. Hopefully, Doc will learn from this and get his act together regarding complaining about refs. The refs aren't stopping his team from rebounding and playing defense.

Outside

Crawford sucks.

jeb65 wrote:Outside

Crawford sucks.

No doubt. But you know that going in. Are you going to allow him to get inside your head so that you lose the game? You can't control what Crawford does, but you can control how you react.

I see the C's complain a ton about calls whoever is refereeing. I have yet to see a referee change his call because a player or coach complained. I think it's human nature for a ref to feel less inclined to give you a break on the next 50-50 call if you're yammering non-stop about calls. Get tough and win the game regardless of the refs.

I always told my player that if they wanted the toughest job on the court, they should become a referee. And I never allowed my players to complain to the refs. The coach sets the tone, and I strongly believe that complaining hurts more than helps.

Jeb,

I grew up around Celtics players. Good ones. Great ones. Championship-after-championship-after-championship ones. And do you know how they felt about referees? They felt you should never let the other team be close enough so that a few bad calls could make the difference. They felt you should focus your energy on beating the opponent, not dissipate it by looking for someone to share the blame. They felt that winning could become chronic and complaining could also become chronic...and they always preferred the former.

I believe fans should try to emulate the attitudes of the players when it comes to refs. Sure, argue individual calls. But when fault and blame are involved, assign them in most constructive directions.

Sam

Guys, I gotta say. I think that this team will find it's groove soon enough. Call me a cockeyed optimist but I think that this funk will turn out to be part of the process...I don't know if they will win it all this year but collapse is definitely not their long term fate. They will be right in the hunt.

I agree with your optimism, I just think they needed a good slap in the face to shock them. Three days in the gym is going to be a tough one for alot of them. They probably will hear more yelling now than they ever have. I believe in this team, I believe they can accomplish great things. Look, the Lakers score only 23 points in the second half the other night! Maybe all these good teams need is a team like Indiana or Atlanta once or twice a week for a while to get them back on track.

Sheldon Williams has been the "sign" of the year so far. If I was Davis I would be worried about my minutes because this kid deserves to play. Speaking of Davis, his addition to this team will be a plus once he gets
ready to play. I am not a huge Davis fan, but I do think he will bring something more to that second unit.

My other thought is, yes, Ray Allen is having one heck of a year so far. Just watch him on the court, it is not always about his scoring. He is everywhere. That assist to KG last night was beautiful. As many know, I am a huge Ray fan. He is so important to this team. Check his minutes,
he has been on the court longer than the other "Big Three", and he is
a stabling influence when he is out there. In deference to Pierce, I believe he definitely was hurting last night, no lift whatsoever.

Wallace was okay when he played under the basket. In the second half he got away from that and it hurt them alot. Daniels is still a shining star in my opinion.

Alot to work on, one is how to keep their mouths shut no matter what. They are not winning any battles with ref's at all. Once Joe Crawford got on a roll, I knew they didn't have a prayer. My only surprise is that Doc didn't get thrown. Come on guys, you will never win this battle, shut up and play basketball!!!!

Well we got spanked again.

When I was a kid and I got spanked I usually figured out pretty quick what brought on the "spanking" and made damn sure I didn't do it again (or at least make sure I didn't get caught). These guys don't seem to get it. Thus they are led to the woodshed again last night.

We can say all the things to rationaize this like we have new players, or it's a long season those are true for virtually every team not just us.

As the losses mount there will be no fear for teams comming into the garden or hosting us at home.

We need to send messages asap that this is a fluke. Thing is I'm not so sure that it is. Age has a way of rearing it's head and never letting go and the things you have always been able to do, you can no longer.

I can only imagine what the feeling is like on a professional level. To be the very best and then have to struggle as the 95 MPH fast ball now seems to come at you at 110 MPH instead.

I am in no way throwing in the towel, but unless we make some changes or the team/players decide enough is enough this could be a very tough season, at least a lot tougher than most of us though.

Should we look at a couple of changes in the starting lineup?

Would Ray or Paul or KG even consider it?

Banner 18 seems a bit further away than it did a week ago.

beat

Hi,
Second game in a row - the same scenario. And it's with the teams that Celtics could just demolish. Now, can anybody give a resonable idea or explanation of why, without the usual BS like Crowford, back-to-back game, RA, PP and KG collided and each broke wrist and ankle, etc.?
It looks like a mental state of the whole team went down except a few sparks here and there. I hope it's not a trend, just a temp. slump. If so, it's good it happened at the beginning of the season.
C'mon Celtics, we need positive emotions!

Fellas

Out in san fran on a gig. After a good nite sleep I feel we'll be fine. Aint got time to post but will be doin some reading.

And Sam

Aint blamin ref s but Crawford is a disgrace.Sumthin got to be done.

My problem with him is that once he gets riled up, he just keeps it going. I am shocked Doc didn't get thrown out last night because Crawford was dying to do it. In the case of Perk, watch the replay, other than putting his arms up, his mouth is shut. Guilt by reputation, no doubt there. I read where he is appealing both T's he got, two nights in a row, but I think it will be to no avail.

I agree, he is NOT the reason they lost. But they lost control completely with their complaining. There was a time when Daniels was just about creamed under the basket, no call. And the time that Ray went up for a layup and three Pacers were there and he ended up on the floor. No call.
I am not looking for what isn't there, I hate floppers, but fair play is fair play.

Why they let this guy back in the league is beyond me, hardly anyone respects him. Oh well, Wednesday is another day. Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall at practice today???? Who's blaming who???

Rosalie, it would be a real treat to be at ANY practice. That's a dimension of the game that can be fascinating and yet is just not available to us.

I'm also starting to wonder whether some of these guys (like Rondo and Pierce) may be silently enduring more physical problems than we've been led to believe.

Sam

Count the technical free throws against and the missed free throws by Pierce and Rhondo and their it is. The C's deserved to lose. Don't blame Crawford. He is not a good ref but the C's lost the game themselves. Rasheed took himself out. Perk missed how many layups? Defense was what, 56% shooting for the Pacers? Dantay Jones? Are you kidding me? PP played no defense. Sorry but they stunk.

Hoop

hoop

I my self dont "blame' Crawford. But he is a disgrace to the game. He makes (like LaKing) the games about him. He is a half mast rat and in no way should he be allowed to keep calling games.

The Celts sucked and deserved to lose due to the way they played so passive in the second half.

But Crawford is a king hell rat.

I made a response in a previous board before the Pacers game. I more or less said that the Celtics must control tempo or they will lose more games than we will be comfortable with. Ball and player movement suffers the 2nd half of EVERY game. Why is that?

Because the Big 3 are 1.5 years older since championship year. They are not closing out on 3-point shooting as they did before. Ball movement that looks so good early in games, conspicuously slows way down as game wears on. Player movement that gets easy, wide open shots in 1st halves grinds down to jumpshots and watching Pierce do his thing. The Celtics either are not in shape yet, or they are unwilling to keep running and moving.

It appears to me that this team would rather not play the regular season. They want to get right into the post season. They are not doing the things necessary to control and dominate games.

They want to play a great 1st half and blow you out the 3rd quarter. If that doesn't work, they start to squeeze the ball and squeeze their movement.

All Doc has to do is show them 1st half videos and 2nd half videos. If it is so apparent to me, it must be even moreso to the coaches and players. No genius necessary here - just get down to playing Celtic basketball for 48 minutes. The post season is a long way off. Sorry, gentlemen.

i think Pierce is hobbled. but yeah, i found it despicable how Dhantay Jones went off. i mean, Dhantay Jones?? really???

and yeah, Crawford's got a quick whistle with the T's but it's hard to blame the loss on him. It's hard to win when u can't stop guys like Dhantay Jones.



- LilRip

On a lighter note Lakes got drubbed by Houston in LA so things are tough all over.