DA looking good!

So, this is premature, or wishful thinking, but I think we're better built than last year's Celtics. Not better every night, but potentially much better if Rondo returns to form. What have we lost? A coach who overplayed his vets, two aging former stars and a guard, can't-remember-his-name, couldn't-defend, from-somewhere-down-in-Texas. And what have we gained? An ideal backup to Green, a sturdy power forward with good attitude, a young guard, financial leverage, draft picks coming due like dividends over the next few years, and a brainy new coach.
Just what the doctor ordered!
Of course this fleecing of the Nets would not be possible if DA had not already purloined Green from Oklahoma in exchange for Perk, securing PP's successor, a deal that looks pretty savvy tonight.
So, we don't get Andrew Wiggins, at least until he jumps from his first team. It seems like Danny has created an interesting team, younger, faster, healthier, and perhaps deadlier than last year's edition after the league's best pure point guard joins his stablemates.
Adios to the era of the three viejos; we loved you well. And Bravo, DA, for the jump start on the next banner! Hawk

LONG SEASON WITH MANY PEAKS AND DEEP VALLY'S AHEAD.

112288

Boston surely isn't a team to overlook. They'll probably end the season somewhere around .500.



KJ

I'LL TAKE THAT BET ANY DAY OF THE YEAR.................28+/-

112288

112288 and KJ, I'm thinking more in terms of where we want to be in two or three years as I look at our current trajectory. We haven't got a contender yet, but we have a stand-out point guard, a pesky defender at the 2, a combo guard who is improving with the coach's trust, a strong one-two punch at the 3, good options at the 4, and new leadership on the bench.
I was hoping DA would turn the page last year, but playoff heroics two years ago made one more try alluring. Last year after Rondo went down, we were not a dangerous team, although we won a few. I think we'll be better than that - regardless of record - by the end of this season if Rondo comes back strong because we're younger and more athletic.

Hawk,

I agree that they'll be much better. Stevens' coaching will be even better as well.



KJ

hawk,

I see your point. This season is a toss out for being a contender...probably next year as well so.........ok I'll go on the record as wanting the Celtics to get a high draft choice this coming lottery ..........being in the playoffs and losing first round is no mans land..............but yes I root each night for the young players to excel ...Sully ....KO....Pressey...VF...those are the building blocks of tomorrow!

112288

It's really nice to see this board humming with satisfaction. We all know that the current squad almost surely bears only scant resemblance to the one that will be representing Boston down the road. And it would be premature to regard the most recent three (very losable) games as indicating anything more than tentative progress and rays of hope for future assets such as Green, Bradley, Sully and Olynyk.

But there's one aspect of the recent successes that offers more solid reassurance for the future. This guy, Brad Stevens, can really coach a team. (I know others have mentioned it, but I think it's okay to reinforce the notion.) I was initially worried as to whether he was tough enough, but the post-game comments of one Celtic (I can't recall which one) suggested that his toughness is manifested more in practice than during games.

That comment took me back to visions of Doc very visibly reading the riot act to certain players during games. I'm not saying Doc was wrong in doing so, because maybe that was the way to go with a very veteran team. But it seems Brad has correctly identified the best way to get into the heads of these particular guys in very convincing ways. That approach to coaching bodes very well for the team down the road.

Another MAJOR indicator of long-term progress is that, despite some occasional lapses (such as a few 24-second violations), the Boston Celtics offense appears to be coming out of hibernation. A combination of volume shooting and better protection of the ball is producing points at an encouraging level. I believe I read that they're currently #2 in the league defensively (although I haven't bothered to check that out). Even if that proves to be untrue, their defense is making great strides. Their ability to gang up to protect the defensive rim and to rebound at that end is helping to counter their lack of height and bulk. I think their perimeter defense has improved a lot too, although it may have taken a backward step against the Heat.

In short, while they're light years away from where they need to be, at least the last three games have produced one big glimmer.

Go Celtics!

Sam

Sam

Just went thru and read Stevens complete bio......... this was there

Early life[edit]

Stevens grew up in the Indianapolis suburb of Zionsville, Indiana, where he developed his love for basketball.[4] Starting at age five, Stevens would watch taped basketball games "before he went to afternoon kindergarten".[5] His father would often drive him to Bloomington to watch Indiana Hoosiers games.[6] "It's hard not to be [in love with basketball] when you're a kid growing up in Indiana", Stevens later said.[7]
For his eighth birthday, Stevens received a new basketball hoop. "It’s so much fun to dream in your driveway,"

Dang at age 5 he was watching game file.

Here is the whole bio, if you haven't read it take a couple minutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Stevens

beat

Sam, It is great to see the buzz of anticipation here. I think the biggest reason is the change in coaches (as KJ has nailed on another thread); we now have a coach rather than an ex-player with some notion about the job. As for reading the riot act to players publicly, that style of management almost never pays off, unless the goal is to embarrass and humiliate. Resentment is a powerful motivator, but poison to a team.
The joy we sense in our current players may stem from their realization that Stevens can be trusted because he doesn't curry favor; he seems purely for the team and doesn't care who gets the job done. My joy comes from that, as well as the knowledge that DA chose this coach, gave him a long-term contract, prepared for the end of the PP era by pursuing Green a second time, unloaded Perk at the peak of his value, made hard decisions to move us forward without spending a generation in the wilderness.
As a fan, I've never been higher on DA than now. I think he's learning his lessons, too, one being that a GM needs a coach who is willing to use all the tools in the shed, not just the same old hammer and saw. For the last couple of years, I've thought that DA and Doc were not on the same page. DA would stock a lineup with role players and Doc would pull them at their first mistake, banish them for weeks. Doc seemed embarrassed by players' mistakes and their reflections on his ability; Brad Stevens would seem to have no such hang up. Part of this may be lower expectations and less pressure for this season, but the larger part would seem to be that BS has faith in himself. Hawk

112288 wrote:hawk,

I see your point.  This season is a toss out for being a contender...probably next year as well so.........ok I'll go on the record as wanting the Celtics to get a high draft choice this coming lottery ..........being in the playoffs and losing first round is no mans land..............but yes I root each night for the young players to excel ...Sully ....KO....Pressey...VF...those are the building blocks of tomorrow!

112288

No man's land? As far as I know, they have 9 first rd picks over the next few years and plenty of potential assets. Boston is well off for the future.

Plus the draft is a lottery, so none of the picks are definite to any particular team. The worst team by record has a 25% chance of getting the first pick as it is.


KJ

KJ,

We need an IMPACT PLAYER NOW.......not a role player.You get beyond the first 10 picks it becomes a crap shoot.......everybody including my grandmother can tell you that.

Yes you can get lucky i.e. Rondo @ 21st but how many Rondo's do you find. Paul Pierce was #10 in 1998 draft..........but the odds go way down and I look at odds...........percentages everything else is BS.

There is no young impact player on the Celtics. Do not want to be picking 15th to 20th. That gets us role players........that does not get us an impact player to attract other YOUNG FREE AGENT IMPACT PLAYERS to Boston.

God knows it was like pulling teeth to get KG to come to Boston and we had Pierce!

HERE ARE SOME CASE EXAMPLES[b]


[b]2009 Draft

1 Blake Griffin
2 Hasheem Thabeet
3 James Harden
4 Tyreke Evans
5 Ricky Rubio
6 Jonny Flynn
7 Stephen Curry
8 Jordan Hill
9 DeMar DeRozan
10 Brandon Jennings

2010 Draft

1 John Wall PG
2 Evan Turner
3 Derrick Favors
4 Wesley Johnson
5 DeMarcus Cousins
6 Ekpe Udoh PF
7 Greg Monroe
8 Al-Farouq
9 Gordon Hayward
10 Paul George

2011 Draft

1 Kyrie Irving
2 Derrick Williams
3 Enes Kanter
4 Tristan Thompson
5 Jonas Valančiūnas
6 Jan Veselý
7 Bismack Biyombo
8 Brandon Knight
9 Kemba Walker
10 Jimmer Fredette

2012 Draft

1 Anthony Davis
2 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3 Bradley Beal
4 Dion Waiters
5 Thomas Robinson
6 Damian Lillard
7 Harrison Barnes
8 Terrence Ross
9 Andre Drummond
10 Austin Rivers

2001 #25 - Gerald Wallace
2003 #27 - Kendrick Perkins
2004 #14 - Kris Humphries
2004 #25 - Tony Allen
2005 #33 (2nd round) - Brandon Bass
2006 #49 (2nd round) - Leon Powe
2007 #35 (2nd round) - Glen "Big Baby" Davis
2010 #19 - Avery Bradley
2012 #21 - Jared Sullinger
2013 #13 - Kelly Olynyk

Not all of these were picks by Danny, of course, but whomever drafted them didn't pick them Top 10.

And if we want to look at other non-Top 10 picks that turned out ok:
Kobe Bryant, #13
Steve Nash, #15
Klay Thompson, #11
Nicola Vucevic, #16
Kenneth Faried, #22

Then again, there's the other side of the argument:
Yi Jianlian, #5
Jimmer Fredette, #10
Wesley Jonson, #4
Hashem Thabeet, #2
Jonny Flynn, #6
Michael Beasley, #2
Joe Alexander, #8

And, of course, El Busto Ultimo

Greg Oden, #1


The draft is a crap shoot.  It's better, in my opinion, to pay a premium for slightly older veteran players that are known quantities.  They know the league, the refs know them and they've been heavily, heavily scouted for years.


bob


.

Bob,

First of all.......you are talking apples and oranges. We are talking draft picks only....where does older players come into this discussion.

Second....Greg Odem was no El Busto.........he was an animal when he was healthy. He had a physical injury which no one can ever determine...........like ahhhhhhhh....Jeff Green!

The draft is all about odds.......1 - 5 your chances are very high you'll land a great player..........6 - 10 your odds are decreased........11 - 20 they go way down.

Give me 1 - 5 any day of the week and I'll take my chances!

112288

112288,

I believe it's too soon to bring an impact player aboard (as if they had a choice). This team seems very comfortable to grow at a collective pace, and I'm afraid the sudden advent of a star could disrupt that emerging chemistry. I hope they can take the rest of this month to become comfortable in their roles and build their chemistry.

Then they should (hopefully) have an impact player joining a confident, smoothly functioning rotation just when they're ripe for ascending to another level. And he should be a great catalyst for that elevation because he has been as integral part of the team as possible without actually being on the floor.

Depending on how the team continues to progress with Rondo back, the trading deadline might be an appropriate time for them to utilize an expiring contract and a draft choice or two to bring an impact player to town. Ideally it would be a center.

I learned that the gradual approach works best many years ago, when my youngest daughter ignored the walking stage and broke from a crawl into a dead run. She slammed into the wall at one end of the room, picked herself up, broke into another dead run, slammed into the opposite wall, and would have continued if I hadn't rescued her from herself.

Sam

Sam,

Sam..........they are growing at a comfortable collective pace because they have no other choices..........they are playing the hand..team...that was dealt to the team now.

Also you missed my point........I said that you can have a good chance of getting an impact player if you draft very high........and if that draftee turns into an impact player you can THEN attract other young impact players.

Sam we are talking 2 - 3 years from now...not now.

112288

112288,

I still think the draft really comes down to luck. There will be highly touted college players that just don't cut it in the NBA, while some others not as popular can truly make their mark.

Boston is going to get decent picks. You don't necessarily need a top 5 pick for an impact player.



KJ

KJ,

No you are right.......it is some luck.......but I look at probability of success or luck.

1 - 5 ......I bet you get 4 out of 5 very good or impact.

Let's go Celtics....great game tonight!

112288

In the history of the NBA draft lottery only one team has won the lottery and gone on to win a title.  Tanking in the NBA does not work.  Period.

Winning starts with a culture and that culture is being cultivated right in front of our eyes.  The Celtics should try to win as many games as they can, rebuild with their own draft picks and those they acquired from the Nets and Clippers for 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2018 with the choice of swapping picks with Brooklyn in 2017, or trade them for proven players.

They also need to sign free agents. A free agent is more apt to come to Boston if he believes he would be the piece that turns them into a title contender. That would be more likely with a Celtics team coming off 35 or 40 victories instead of 15 or 20.

DA has already showed us the blueprint....in the seasons leading up to 2007.  In Danny I Trust.

112288,

Sorry, I misinterpreted your statement that "We need an IMPACT PLAYER NOW. I didn't realize you were talking about two or three years down the road.

You're right that they currently have no choice. What I'm saying is that, in some ways at least, ithat's a blessing in disguise. If the team were pressured to improve at the rate some fans clamor for, they'd be less likely to do in the right way.

Sam

112288 wrote:Bob,

First of all.......you are talking apples and oranges.  We are talking draft picks only....where does older players come into this discussion.

Second....Greg Odem was no El Busto.........he was an animal when he was healthy.  He had a physical injury which no one can ever determine...........like ahhhhhhhh....Jeff Green!

The draft is all about odds.......1 - 5 your chances are very high you'll land a great player..........6 - 10 your odds are decreased........11 - 20 they go way down.

Give me 1 - 5 any day of the week and I'll take my chances!

112288

112288,

You're right about the odds favoring picking a winner with a Top 5 or or even a Top 10 pick is better than doing it with a #20 pick, but the point I was trying to make is that you can eliminate that uncertainty almost completely by trading those draft picks for a known quantity.  1-5?  Sure, that's usually a pretty good place to be, but also very hard (and/or painful) to get.  Trading a #6-10 pick for a sure thing makes a lot of sense to me too and that's the point I was trying to make.  Certainly, trading a #11-30 pick plus a player for a clearly higher quality player is a good idea.  There are few sports where one player can make as much of a difference as basketball.  That's why there's the old adage about how "the team that got the best individual player in the deal, won".  

Another thing you could do is to try to pick up another team's mistake and give the player more time to mature.  Derrick Favors and Thomas Robinson might be good examples of this.  Underwhelming from the get-go, but should be good moving forward with their new teams.  Didn't do much for the teams that bled for an entire season to draft them though.

As far as Greg Oden being an animal when he was healthy, um, exactly when was that?  He has played a grand total of 82 NBA games over two seasons, despite being the #1 pick in the 2007 draft.  How many of those 82 games was he truly healthy for too?  Over the two incomplete seasons he played (61 games in 2008-2009, 21 games in 2009-2010) he only averaged 22.1mpg.  Why so few, for an animal?  I cannot ever remember seeing Greg Oden play and thinking "Holy Cow, he's taking over!".  And comparing him to Jeff Green?  Jeff Green is playing, Oden is sitting on the Miami Heat bench.  Still.  As usual.  Chris Bosh is not with the team in Toronto because he's about to become a father, and Greg Oden isn't with the team.  He had microsurgery on his right knee when he came out in the draft in 2007.  He missed time because of a chip to his left patella in 2009.  He came back and fractured his left knee cap again in 2009 (carried off on a stretcher).  In 2010, he had microsurgery on his left knee.  In 2012, he had further microsurgery to his left knee.  Greg Oden makes Andrew Bynum look like Superman.  Sorry, I just don't agree on this one.  For a first pick to only play 82 games in 5+ seasons is El Busto.  Peoples' eyes roll when they talk about #1 picks Sam Bowie and Olawakandi, but at least they had careers. Oden isn't a has-been, he's a never-was.


bob


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