Asik for Green again?

http://www.celticslife.com/2014/04/is-it-time-to-reconsider-jeff-green-for.html

Last winter, there were plenty of rumors linking the Boston Celtics to a potential trade with the Houston Rockets revolving around Omer Asik and Jeff Green. I covered why I thought the trade made sense rather extensively, and perhaps not totally 100% because of that beaut of an article, talks seemed to intensify but eventually fell apart, and Green and Asik remained on their respect teams.

With months passed, I can't escape the thought that this trade makes even more sense for both sides than it did this past winter. Why? Well let's take a look:

Why Does it Make More Sense For Boston?

In case you missed it, Omer Asik submitted a pretty impressive audition tape to be someone's starting Center in the month of April. With Howard out, Asik had a 5-game beast mode stretch where he averaged 12 points, 16.8 rebounds, and 1.2 blocks. That stretch includes two 23 rebound performances. A reminder a game changing defensive player, which he is (if somehow you're not convinced of his defensive prowess PLEASE read this), Asik's a mythical demon on the boards while having the overall competence to being an effective offensive option.



That's the kind of defensive anchor and rebound machine the Boston Celtics so desperately need. His height and prowess serves as the perfect compliment to Jared Sullinger.... or Kevin Love. Don't let the Timberwolves GM's 'big splash' announcement fool you, because in order to dynamically change a roster you need to have coveted assets and/or salary cap room. The Timbewolves have neither.

The Celtics will have 2 shots at the All Star Power Forward: They're in position to offer significantly more than anyone else through trade (potentially minus the Suns), and they will have the cap space to sign at least one max free agent (in addition to Rondo if they so choose) next offseason.

Asik and Love seem like perfect counterparts. Asik defensive skill could cover up some of Love's defensive lapses, and Love's offensive versatility would provide the spacing to not turn Asik into the offensive liability he sometimes appears to be when he's paired with Dwight Howard. And one would have to think that the two combined could grab just about every rebound that's ever made available to them.

Why Does it Make More Sense for Houston?

Have you been watching this Portland series? They're getting next to nothing out of the power forward position. No offense, and no defense (not that it really matters, because LaMarcus Aldridge is hitting just about anything he puts up right now). You can have the best stars in the league, but you need to get something out of your role players. Heck, the Miami Heat almost lost the Finals last season until Mike Miller and Shane Battier started converting open looks.

This is a team that needs a power forward that can provide spacing. Dwight Howard needs more room to operate in the post, and James Harden needs space in pick and roll situations. They're not getting the most out of their superstars when they have a power forward who pretty much refuses to shoot when he's not next to the rim.
It's not that Terrence Jones is bad, he's actually been quite good, but his skillset is hindering the Rockets ability to get the most out of their 2 stars. Green not only allows them to get the most, he gives the Rockets another shot creating offensive weapon, and versatility at the wing. Providing a team that plays Francisco Garcia significant minutes to get some semblance of perimeter defense another option.

So if Makes sense for both sides, why not just do it now?

A quick search on lycos.com informs me that you can't trade players in the playoffs. But come summer, this is definitely a trade to keep your eyes on.

follow me on twitter: @mattdotrich


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we'd still have a logjam at PF with this trade, but we could go best SF in the draft then. Trouble is Parker and Wiggins are likely gone by our first pick, leaving us with option like McDermott, Saric, Hood and Anderson.

Asik would get is the defensive center we need, but we'd ahve even LESS scoring on the team in return.

Hayward in a sign and trade?

oh I'd do the Asik for Green trade also, as I agree SF's of Green caliber are easier to find than Starting NBA centers.

Just pointing out it fixes one problem, but creates another.

Bass, Sully and KO are still at PF and that's too many, IMO.

maybe Bass and Bogans to Utah for Hayward on that sign and trade

draft Harris with the first pick and Warren, Capela or Grant with the second?

sure does open up a lot of different ways to go, if that trade would go down.

I thought the earlier offer included Bass rather than Green, but I'd give up either for Asik.  I don't see any problem in having several good PFs.  I don't believe that will be the case for very long, because there are teams that have PF needs.  And a defensive gem—especially at the center position—is more valuable than an offensive gem (with the possible exception of a PG) any old day.

As much as the possibility of a deal for Asik is attractive, the timing of the deal can be even more important.  The sooner a defensive intimidator is in place, the sooner the rest of the pieces are likely to fall in line, and the better the value of their respective talents can be viewed within the context of filling in around him and (hopefully) Rondo.

The only thing that bothers me about the accuracy of this speculation is that this writer seems to be touting Jeff Green as a PF, and I've just never felt that was his better position.

Sam

It's certainly a viable trade. But Houston's initial asking price was really high from what I recall.

I could see Green + one 1st rounder.



KJ

I think now that Houston finally made the common sense move and inserted Asik into the starting lineup at PF, coming out with an OT W after he held Aldridge off, they're even more likely to keep him.

I agree Sam,

having Asik in place before the draft would be imperative.

IF we would need to add a draft pick it shouldn't be this years, IMO.

Like I said above, IF it were to happen, Ainge could see if we can grab Hayward in a sign and trade with Utah.
maybe sending Bass and Bogans non-guaranteed deal over. Maybe even a draft pick (that would be possibly two first gone for both Hayward and Asik).

Them drafting Harris and Warren would set us up as a YOUNG playoff team for next year ( with 5-6 first round picks still over the next 4 years).

should be enough salary room to sign a guy like Stiesmsa even after re-signing Bradley. ( right around $68M in total salary then)

Asik
Steamer
Fav
Sully
KO
Anthony
Hayward
Wallace
Warren
Bradley
Harris
Johnson
Rondo
Pressey

not too bad.

After this season is over for the Rockets, they will be staring at balloon payments ($15M-ish) for both Asik and Lin straight in the face. They will not want to keep both. I believe one or the other (or both) will be moved this summer.

A medium cap hit is one thing, but actual cash payouts is another.

gyso

Is Asik worth 15 million?
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/1/14/5308844/omer-asik-houston-rockets-trade-rumors

Which players, whose contracts total about 15 mil, are sent out in the trade?
Will there be any cap space left for free agents?
Unrestricted free agent in 2015.

swish

Swish,

Asik signed a three year contract, with the yearly salaries (more or less) of $5M + $5M + $15M.  In the first two years, he was paid a salary of $5M each year.  In the third year (next year) he will be paid a salary of $15M.

Because of the Arenas Exception, the team that signed him as a free agent (Houston) would be able to average the 3-year salary and use that as his cap hit each year.  5+5+15 = 25M of total salary.  25 divided by 3 = 8.33M.

In order to trade for him, we would only have to match $8.33M in salaries (more or less), but we would have to pay him $15M.  The excessive $15M salary for a player of his skillset could be the reason why Danny Ainge has any leverage in making a trade for him.  DA just has to convince the Celtics owners that it is worth the money.

Asik doesn't start for the Rockets, but he would for us.  Asik will be a free agent in 2015-2016, so there is a chance that he could walk after one year with us.  That issue gives DA even more leverage (and not use too many 1st rounders) in a trade for Asik.

gyso

gyso

Thanks for the correct trade value. The question still remains- At what cost is he worth 15 mil for a potential one year rental during a year when the Celts don't figure to be a contender?

Swish

so a Green for Asik swap actually SAVES about $1M in CAP SPACE

but cost the owners an additional $6M in real dollars.

kdp59 wrote:so a Green for Asik swap actually SAVES about $1M in CAP SPACE

but cost the owners an additional $6M in  real dollars.

Basically.

He will make nearly $15M next season. And that's when his contract expires. Sure, Boston could make a trade, but they'd also be taking the risk of whether this guy stays or not.



KJ

NYCelt wrote:I think now that Houston finally made the common sense move and inserted Asik into the starting lineup at PF, coming out with an OT W after he held Aldridge off, they're even more likely to keep him.

.
my take exactly, Howard is closer to 30 than 20, hes not as durable and needs help, theres a ton of Jeff Greens and Brandon Bass's out there, not too many centers with Asiks size and defensive ability. Lin will be gone, they need Asik if they really want to contend.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

NYCelt wrote:I think now that Houston finally made the common sense move and inserted Asik into the starting lineup at PF, coming out with an OT W after he held Aldridge off, they're even more likely to keep him.

.
my take exactly, Howard is closer to 30 than 20, hes not as durable and needs help, theres a ton of Jeff Greens and Brandon Bass's out there, not too many centers with Asiks size and defensive ability. Lin will be gone, they need Asik if they really want to contend.

Cow,

Yeah, that's actually an added point or two I didn't consider. Lin isn't going to be back, which frees up some money to keep Asik. Although Aldridge went off on Asik last night it sounds like Asik will probably remain as starting PF into next season, so he's happy and Houston is likely going to want to keep him.

Regards

NCelt,

I read just the other day that it is Lin that they plan to keep and not Asik. Lin was reportedly more valuable to them. I cannot remember where I read that, but if I find it, I will post the link.

gyso

gyso whoever wrote that don't know squat, Lin has been terrible this series and lost his starting job, with him and Harden starting, that is the worst defensive backcourt in the league, not even the two huge bigs could cover up for all that.

NYCelt wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

NYCelt wrote:I think now that Houston finally made the common sense move and inserted Asik into the starting lineup at PF, coming out with an OT W after he held Aldridge off, they're even more likely to keep him.

.
my take exactly, Howard is closer to 30 than 20, hes not as durable and needs help, theres a ton of Jeff Greens and Brandon Bass's out there, not too many centers with Asiks size and defensive ability. Lin will be gone, they need Asik if they really want to contend.

Cow,

Yeah, that's actually an added point or two I didn't consider.  Lin isn't going to be back, which frees up some money to keep Asik.  Although Aldridge went off on Asik last night it sounds like Asik will probably remain as starting PF into next season, so he's happy and Houston is likely going to want to keep him.

Regards

Who's gonna take Lin when he's owed $14.9 mil next year? No one. That was the poison pill third year salary when Houston didn't want the Knicks to match their offer a couple years ago.

Could not we make a trade for Asik contingent upon him committing to a three year contract with the Celts for $15M - $6M -$6M? Is that legal in the NBA?

cowens/oldschool wrote:gyso whoever wrote that don't know squat, Lin has been terrible this series and lost his starting job, with him and Harden starting, that is the worst defensive backcourt in the league, not even the two huge bigs could cover up for all that.

cowens,

As Steve says, who is going to trade for Lin and his $15M one year salary? No one. Not one single team. The fact that he has underperformed puts the final nail in that particular coffin.

On the other hand, who is going to trade for Asik and his $15M one year salary? Us for one. Other teams who need a rim protector. Lakers? Knicks? Someone will.

Apparently, whoever wrote that knows somewhat more than squat.

gyso

swish wrote:Is Asik worth 15 million?
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/1/14/5308844/omer-asik-houston-rockets-trade-rumors

Which players, whose contracts total about 15 mil, are sent out in the trade?
Will there be any cap space left for free agents?
Unrestricted free agent in 2015.

swish

Go figure, I read it here. Use the link swish provided. It says,

According to Deveney, however, the Rockets "probably would not want to trade Lin" even with the "balloon payment." The fourth-year guard is averaging career-highs in shooting and three-point percentage and has thrived both as a sixth man and as a starting point guard in the injured Patrick Beverley's absence.

gyso

steve3344 wrote:

NYCelt wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

NYCelt wrote:I think now that Houston finally made the common sense move and inserted Asik into the starting lineup at PF, coming out with an OT W after he held Aldridge off, they're even more likely to keep him.

.
my take exactly, Howard is closer to 30 than 20, hes not as durable and needs help, theres a ton of Jeff Greens and Brandon Bass's out there, not too many centers with Asiks size and defensive ability. Lin will be gone, they need Asik if they really want to contend.

Cow,

Yeah, that's actually an added point or two I didn't consider.  Lin isn't going to be back, which frees up some money to keep Asik.  Although Aldridge went off on Asik last night it sounds like Asik will probably remain as starting PF into next season, so he's happy and Houston is likely going to want to keep him.

Regards

Who's gonna take Lin when he's owed $14.9 mil next year?  No one.  That was the poison pill third year salary when Houston didn't want the Knicks to match their offer a couple years ago.  

maybe we give them Wallace and Green or something, theres alot of bad contracts out there

Why would the Rockets want to deal with the Celtics for Bass 6.4 mil per yr or Green 9.2 mil per yr or Humphries Salary to be determined ?  They already have Parsons age 25 at 964k per yr and Jones age 22 at 1.6 mil per yr who are statistical clones to the above 3 Celtics, younger and a lot less expensive. Asik is great front court security for a team that figures to be in contention again next year.

swish