Jeff Green - A Fan's View

Jeff Green is the ultimate enigma.

He is perhaps as physically talented of a player ever to put on a Celtics uniform.  We do not have a replacement for him yet so we have to live with his ups and downs.

His body of work reflects a player that has never reached a level of basketball that was expected of him.  

While I have been a big supporter of Jeff, this year in particular has revealed his limitations and there are several.

We have seen unreal monster dunks from him as well as uncanny shots from the deepest parts of the court.  We have seen his flying to the basket drives past multiple defenders.

That is the good part.

The bad part is that despite his physical gifts, rebounding the basketball is not a priority.  And neither is passing the basketball to teammates.  Jeff Green does not make his teammates better.  He makes them worse.

His shot selection way too often reflects a lack of discipline and as such, he does not give this team what they need at a particular point in time during a game.  Despite his length, his defense needs to be a lot better.

He is the same player that came out of Geogetown because he has failed miserably in adding new things to his game.  He does not comeback each year with a new move or twist.  He longed to be the big gun on this team but he is a mere pop gun.

If he has a mid-range game, it is not something that he is able or willing to focus on.  He is either bombing away from deep or making Kamikaze drives to the hoop.  His mid-range game will never come into play on any consistent basis because he does not dribble the ball well enough to get to any place on the court.  

That is the biggest and most important variable when evaluating his offensive ability.  That is also why he can never be mentioned in the same light as the top of the line SF’s.  They all got handle and he does not.

It has already been established that Jeff is not and will never be a # 1 scoring threat.  I question if he could even be a # 2.  The more he shoots the more he misses.  And if his offense is not clicking he does not make up for it at the other end.

There will be an appropriate time to move on from him because this team will never win a championship with JG as the starting SF.  Looking at the entire package on both offense (shooting, passing setting picks, movement, etc) and defense (defending the perimeter, the post, rotating and rebounding), Jeff Green is a fake.

I would be happy to have a 12-14 PPG SF that rebounds and defends and shoots in the mid to high 40’s but Green is not that guy.

Jeff is starting to get more grief from the media.  He plays for the Celtics and makes damn good money.  His acceptance of mediocrity is irritating to the fans.  He needs to stop making excuses and earn his money.  If he misses shots..fine but he needs to help his team in other ways.  That is what is expected of a Boston Celtics player.  That is what is expected of him.

Please show something Jeff so that your trade value will benefit the Celtics.  That is the least that you can do to make up for your no-show game.

dboss

dboss,

That is one well-written, well thought out, and nicely original post.

Green supporters and detractors will have to at least acknowledge that one.

When we first obtained Green, and then when he replaced Pierce, I thought criticism of his game stemmed largely from the fact that he was not Paul Pierce. It's always tough to replace a legend.  With Jeff Green there is a deeper inconsistency that has shown itself, however, and that is the problem.  I don't think it has anything to do with his surgery, he's past that now.  It's not lack of a solid point guard to feed him, we saw enough from Rondo last season to know that isn't it either.  In my opinion Jeff Green has shown himself to be simply a nice but unspectacular and inconsistent player.  He's proving all those who criticized his game when we obtained him eerily correct; especially the OKC fans who said we got ourselves less than we thought.

Green is an NBA quality player, but not the fit for a rebuilding team sorely needing consistency and leadership at the critical position he plays.  Looking at his stats from last year, he does look pretty good on paper in several categories, and that may be enough to entice another team.  Stats on paper don't always accurately show what happens on the floor, though.  I agree; time to move on.

Regards

NYCelt

I agree that the team will need to move on.

It is difficult to feel this way about a player that I wanted to do well.

I would not trade Jeff unless a replacement upgrade is available.

Dboss

Expectations.

It's a term that I believe can be used to describe anticipation. Anticipation, meaning that something should happen, or rather, a belief that those expectations will come to fruition. But through all of it, we forget that sometimes those expectations may not be a true reflection of reality.

The most substantial negative associated with Jeff Green rest solely in one area, he is not the quintessential go-to guy. There are several other weaknesses to his game, but that alone stands above the rest in glaring fashion. But I feel compelled to ask: what exactly makes anyone think that Jeff Green should be a go-to guy? There has been zero evidence in Green's past with Oklahoma City and career with Boston that suggests he is more than a complimentary player.

What does this mean? It simply means that people have developed unrealistic expectations. Unfortunately for Green, he is the small forward that came after Pierce, a future Hall of Fame player with an impressive resume as a player. When Pierce and Garnett were traded, it became expected that Jeff would become Pierce 2.0, a more athletic and physically gifted wing player.

Needless to say, with only 25 wins this season, that wasn't the case. And now he has become the lightning rod. People want to go up in arms over it, and honestly, it makes no sense to me. Again, why would anyone expect a player to play a certain way when there was no prior precedence set for it?

So now, Boston is probably in the market for another small forward. I have no problem with that. A team should be constantly looking to improve in all areas possible. Although, I wouldn't trade Jeff just for the sake of doing so, and I sure wouldn't trade him for a wing that isn't an upgrade. He has value and I think he's the type of player that could provide a contending team with an extra push. Jeff plays better when the pressure isn't all on him to be the main guy. In fact, he's a very dangerous player in those situations. But unfortunately for Green, that is simply not the case right now.

If anyone wants to see Green gone, fine, that is a fair opinion, but I will contend that the expectations were not a reflection of reality, but one of desire.



KJ

Good distinction, KJ.

Sam

No comment

kj,

I continue to be impressed with your clear, concise line of thought; good post.

I would add that defining the Jeff Green experience either way; over-expectation or anticipation that he could be something other than what he is, he just doesn't fit with this team at this time.

The coming draft and whatever Danny Ainge has up his sleeve may afford us opportunities to find other wing players whose varied skill-set and consistency stand a better chance to gel with a rebuilding roster.  I would contend that if any of us had overly high expectations for Green (I did, for one) it surely doesn't matter.  He's simply the wrong guy for the job, yet may have some trade value.  I would be happy if we ate what I perceive to be our mistake and get what we can in return.  We're rebuilding anyway, so I'd go as far as to say shop him now while someone might still be interested.  Even if we don't have a good replacement for him immediately, we can always play Wallace in his spot.  Rebuilding involves peaks and valleys and time and patience, so why not just pull the trigger?  We have to sooner or later anyway.

Regards

NYCelt,

Jeff Green is certainly on the market. And so is everyone else on the roster. Potentially, Rondo, Bradley, and Green could be gone from this team within 3 years.

I think Ainge knew precisely what he was getting when he traded for Green. He knew that Green probably wasn't Hall of Fame material. And that's okay. When you think about it, how many players truly are capable of reaching the status that Pierce has? And even fewer rise above that.

I'm not defending Green's play, because he didn't play as well as he could have, but I think people need to put the brakes on and realize what it means to go from having a Hall of Fame small forward to having your standard, NBA-quality small forward.


KJ

KJ

I certainly had great expectations for JG.  Those have been thwarted.

While he has been a disappointment The Celtics have not been a disappointment to me.  I know that they will be contenders again.

I am certainly not advocating  any mindless trade to move Jeff Green.  But I think everyone now understands and can accept the fact that an upgrade must be part of Boston's return to dominance.

This may not happen this year.  The go to guy that we seek may not even be in the league yet.  The Celtics have the opportunity to improve others areas like rim protection and perimeter shooting.  When the right opportunity comes long to acquire that special player be it through the draft or trade,  the Celtics have acquired enough ammunition to make it happen.

dboss

The very fact that the Celtics could be considered not to have a "go-to guy" at the present time is not necessarily as much an indictment of Jeff Green as on the fact that there's no one else on the roster who could take the heat off Jeff as the closest thing to a go-to guy that the Celtics had this past season.

I keep seeing (extremely unfair) comparisons of Jeff with Paul Pierce. Would Paul Pierce have been the "go-to" guy he was without the threats of KG, Ray, and even guys like Eddie House and James Posey to keep the other team from double- or triple-teaming him? As those other guys faded in ability or left the team, and as Pierce because the primary "go-to" threat, I believe he became a much less effective "go-to" threat because it was so much easier for opponents to double-team him. Remember how so many of us moaned on the Game-on Thread about, "here comes another Paul Pierce iso" with a quarter or game winding down? Well, if it was transparent to us, what do you think it was to the Celtics' opponents?

Most "go-to" guys have some combination of teammates who are scoring threats and/or teammates who can set picks, space the floor, and open up scoring opportunities. Such was not the case on the past season's Celtics team, as the most consistent scoring threats down the stretch other than Jeff Green were tall guys shooting threes.

Predictability in an offense makes defending easier. Singling out one guy as THE go-to player (which seems to be the case in some of the previous posts) is like telegraphing the enemy that they can just sit around playing cards until Jeff gets the ball in crunch time.

(1) Show me a more balanced roster that contains at least another one or two consistent scoring threats; (2) show me a point guard who's with the team for the entire 82 games (which Jeff Green was); (3) show me some plays in which Jeff can be a decoy, draw the defense (which he does quite well) and pass to a teammate who can be trusted not to blow the bunny, and I'll show you the kind of situation in which a legitimate "go-to" guy could actually develop.

Show me a reasonably balanced roster of scoring threats; show me a bunch of teammates who can set picks, space the floor, and create driving lanes; and show me a realistic definition of "go-to" guys, and I'll feel comfortable evaluating Jeff Green's "go-to" potential.

Sam

Gyso...thank you for that post. It continues to amaze me that Jeff has been able to travel this road he has. No one can realize how hard it had to be some days to get to the gym, but he did, one step at a time. I know I am partial to Jeff, I am pulling for him every game.

KJ, you articulated well the thought I have had all year as others ripped Jeff. His biggest problem was that everyone named him heir apparent to Paul Pierce, and he is not that. Expectations. Some times can lead to false disappointment.

Rosalie

Sam Pierce was a 5 time all star before we acquired KG and Ray, he already overachieved and took us to an ECF in 02...he was a legit go to guy without the other pieces.

Ever hear that saying of boderline all star types or all stars that they put up big scoring stats on a weak team, and thats why they put up those numbers? well Jeff Green couldn't even do that, so your right, I guess he would need even more help.

Rosalie I was rooting for Jeff Green to succeed, as much as I hated losing Perk and that team losing a big part of their defensive identity, I was still rooting hard for him to develop and do well for us....I don't think anyone was demanding he turn into an athletic version of Paul Pierce, ofcourse we were only hoping for the best. However after 4 years here we can see enough to know its time to go in another direction.

Cow,

As your "saying" suggests, Pierce was the default "go to" guy during his early years when there was no competition from his teammates in that respect. Actually, not so much a "go to" guy as the only guy (unless one wants to count 'Toine, and I'm not that one).

What Paul had in his favor was that his basketball mentality ran strongly toward iso ball, so he didn't need a lot of help in order to excel. Later in his career, when the stakes became much higher (in terms of contention) and when he needed help, the help was there in the form of arguably three and possibly even four hall of famers and excellent support people.

Paul and Jeff are two different types of players. In his prime, Paul was most comfortable with iso ball, and Jeff appears to be most comfortable in a more egalitarian setting in which players share the responsibility for making one another better.

The Celtics of the past season were light years short in terms of consistently sharing the responsibility for making one another better, as so many of them were struggling to keep their own heads above water, given the discontinuities they faced, the frequent need to play out of position, the challenge of acclimating to new teammates, the presence of a new coach, and the lack of a veteran playmaker during the part of the season when the team should have been building chemistry—to say nothing of all the pressures of expectations placed on him by so many.

You choose to draw conclusions about Jeff Green based on that kind of evidence represented by the rag tag team of last season. I choose to withhold conclusions about the value and potential of Jeff Green until he has an opportunity to play in a more egalitarian format—whether it be with the Celtics or elsewhere.

Sam