since we are in "what if" season.....how about this team? (warning Long)

first off the Numbers (salarys for next season)
Player-----Salary
Rondo-----$12.91
Wallace---$10.10
Green------$9.44
Bass-------$6.90
Boagns----$5.28 (Non-Guaranteed)
Anthony---$3.80
Faverani---$2.09
Olynyk-----$2.07
Sullinger---$1.42
Pressey----$0.816 (Non-Guaranteed)
Johnson---$0.916 (non-Guaranteed)
Babb------$0.816 (Non-Guaranteed)

Total cap space = $56.5M

Cap projection is $63.2M next season

projected TAX line is $77.0M

Trades:

1) Green, Sully and Bogans along with #6 pick this year and Clippers pick in 2015 to Minny for Love.

We send $16.14M to Minny and bring back $15.72 in Loves salary.

2) Bass and #17 pick to Houston for Asik.

Bass is at 6.9M and Asik's CAP # is 8.37M

Cap space used after the trades= $57.55M

we are $5.65M below the cap at this point.

We bring Pierce home on a one year deal at $5M.

then we re-sign Bradley ($6M) and Bayless($3M) under bird rights exemptions.

we are now at $71.55M .

we sign Iverson to a rookie minimum deal and add a couple undrafted or D-league shooters to compete with Babb for a roster spot.


we'd be right about at $73M and still under the tax line.

the roster would look like:

Asik
Fav
Iverson
Love
Kelly
Anthony
Pierce
Wallace
Johnson
Bradley
Rondo
Bayless
Pressey
Babb or D-league, Undrafted rookie outside shooter.

1.  It will be interesting to see if a #17 pick in this draft would be enough sugar for Daryl Morey to trade a 7'0" center for a 6'8" PF.

2.  Bring back Pierce as your #1 SF for one year @ $5M?  Thanks but no thanks, especially since we're not in win now mode.  IF I brought Pierce back, and I'm not sure I would, it would be for the vet's minimum.

3.  I see that you don't have Hump coming back.  That leaves us with 2 PFs ( Joel Anthony is not a 4, he's an undersized 5. He doesn't have the footspeed to play 4) and neither of them are defensive stalwarts.  If Hump comes back, then we're over the cap.

4.  According to the NBA Trade Machine the Bass-for-Asik trade doesn't work.  Maybe the use of the Trade Exception from Brooklyn might make a difference.  I'd have to go back and find out where Professor Gyso explained the Trade Exception and whether it can be split on multiple players.  I seem to remember he said no, but I could be wrong.


bob


.

Also, Asik's salary next year will be $14.9M.  That might not be the number to watch as far as making a trade, but I'll bet it effects the cap.

Furthermore, looking at Houston's roster, they have Terrence Jones and Donatas Motiejunas at PF already.  Would they want another PF?  Maybe.  

The trade exception expires 7/12.  Danny's going to be trying like Hell to use every drop of it.


bob


.

Asiks Cap # is $8.37M

but you are correct his salary is Near $15M.

with Love, Asik and Pierce we would be in a win now scenario.

and frankly I just hated seeing Pierce in those ugly Nets uniforms, so that alone is worth it to me!

Bob,

The Asik trade would work if Boston included Babb, Johnson or Pressey.

kd,

That was a pretty reasonable and fair post you made.
I think Minnesota would be willing to listen to an offer like that.
Would Love re-sign with Boston? I'm a little doubtful that he would.
Does Boston really want to go into next season with Love, Rondo and Asik on expiring contracts?
I know Asik can help Boston, but will they be a contender with him? Why not keep the #17 pick (who you can lock up for 4 years), keep Bass and his expiring contract, and wait one more year for Asik? Boston can sign Asik for 4 years next summer. Plus, Asik will be making $15m next season, which is a lot of cash for a non championship contending team and having to give up the #17 pick.

I don't see a reason why Boston should sign Pierce.
Let him go for another title with the Clippers next season.

kdp59 wrote:Asiks Cap # is $8.37M

but you are correct his salary is Near $15M.

with Love, Asik and Pierce we would be in a win now scenario.

and frankly I just hated seeing Pierce in those ugly Nets uniforms, so that alone is worth it to me!

kdp,


Good point about win now. Rondo and Love would make two all-stars. Pierce would be an aging but still effective former all-star. Asik would provide baseline defense.

Danny would have to pull off both those deals for the Pierce deal, at almost any $, to make sense.


bob


.

tjmakz wrote:Bob,

The Asik trade would work if Boston included Babb, Johnson or Pressey.

kd,

That was a pretty reasonable and fair post you made.
I think Minnesota would be willing to listen to an offer like that.
Would Love re-sign with Boston? I'm a little doubtful that he would.
Does Boston really want to go into next season with Love, Rondo and Asik on expiring contracts?
I know Asik can help Boston, but will they be a contender with him? Why not keep the #17 pick (who you can lock up for 4 years), keep Bass and his expiring contract, and wait one more year for Asik? Boston can sign Asik for 4 years next summer. Plus, Asik will be making $15m next season, which is a lot of cash for a non championship contending team and having to give up the #17 pick.

I don't see a reason why Boston should sign Pierce.
Let him go for another title with the Clippers next season.

I would assume Ainge works out the contract extension with love and Asik's agents before the delas are complete.

Not sure the captain would be interested in coming back here over playing with Doc at the Clippers, but you never know...all that love the fans showed Pierce and KG when they came back could mean a lot to a guy finishing out his career. Pierce has also reportedly said he'd like to work in the Celtics front office after retiring.

are you telling me  a team lead by Love and Rondo with Asik and Bradley on defense and having Pierce in crunch time hitting those 3 's can't win?

rememebr doc isn't here to run Pierce ragged during the regular season and Wallace can fill time easily.

here's my projected minutes break down for the season:

Asik-2400
Fav-800
Iverson-100
Love-2600
Kelly-1800
Anthony-200
Pierce-2200
Wallace-1600
Johnson-700
Bradley-2000 (injury's included)
Bayless-1800
Rondo- 2600
Pressey- 800
Babb/Rookie- 100

OK..back to reality

so are we picking Vonleh or Smart at #6?

  

Asik cannot be extended until next summer.

With the amount of teams that have cap space, I think Avery will be getting $7m to $7.5m per year. Rumors are already out there that Eric Bledsoe and Kyle Lowry will be looking for $12m per year.

tjmakz wrote:Bob,

The Asik trade would work if Boston included Babb, Johnson or Pressey.

kd,

That was a pretty reasonable and fair post you made.
I think Minnesota would be willing to listen to an offer like that.
Would Love re-sign with Boston? I'm a little doubtful that he would.
Does Boston really want to go into next season with Love, Rondo and Asik on expiring contracts?
I know Asik can help Boston, but will they be a contender with him? Why not keep the #17 pick (who you can lock up for 4 years), keep Bass and his expiring contract, and wait one more year for Asik? Boston can sign Asik for 4 years next summer. Plus, Asik will be making $15m next season, which is a lot of cash for a non championship contending team and having to give up the #17 pick.

I don't see a reason why Boston should sign Pierce.
Let him go for another title with the Clippers next season.

TJ,

If Morey will take Babb or Johnson, great.

None of these scenarios take into account the trade exception.  I'm very interested how Danny uses it.  LA got a trade exception in the Odom-to-Dallas trade which they used to facilitate the trade from Phoenix for Steve Nash.  One can argue that the Nash deal was not a smart one (almost 39 years old, 3 year contract at $9M/year?) but the bottom line is that the Lakers got their man and the exception greased the skids.  Let's hope Danny uses ours to get his man (I trust him to get someone with a little more tread left on the tires than Steve Nash).

Love in Boston?  

Pluses:  winning organization committed to winning another championship and has proven they know how to do it, one all-star still in his prime already onboard, tons of tradeable chips in both players and draft picks.
Minuses:  weather, not a good team now (perhaps mitigated by the fact that Rondo didn't come back until February and even then didn't play in 2nd of back-to-backs.  He'll be 100% next year).

GSW and Houston are in "win now" mode, so that might be better short-term.  Houston, however, already has two shooters (Harden and Howard).  GSW would provide a more balanced roster to utilize him fully, I think.

LAL has a winning organization and the weather.  That's about it.  If Kobe's not done he's damn near it, Pau only has a few years left in him too and they don't have the draft picks to build through the draft (not the Lakers' preference anyway) or to use as trade sweeteners.

Knicks have Carmelo and Jack.  That would be Jack S--t.

Phoenix has youth, it has a team that was almost a playoff team last year, it has the weather.  It just doesn't have an organization that can show they know how to win a championship, if that matters to him.


bob


.

Kdp,
Good post.
As it's been pointed many times before #6 pick for 1 year rental of Love most probably isn't going to fly. The same, IMO, applies to #17 for Asik.
As to "win now", I don't see anything formidable off the bench. The starting 5 from your roster will be, I presume, RR, AB, GW, KL and Asik. Who's going to be #6? Who's going to be an anchor in the second unit? PP? He's a great player but very old.


AK

Bob,

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the Nash signing/trade.
Nash had a very good year with Phoenix the previous year.
He broke a bone in his leg in game two of his Lakers career and that pretty much ended him as an effective player. It was a good trade in theory, but it obviously bombed in reality.

I can't see any way Love gets traded to the Lakers.
Their assets are the #7 pick and, and, and....
Personally, I don't want Pau back. He can help a contender but LA will not sniff the playoffs in the West next season unless a miracle happens.

Cleveland also has plenty of young assets to make a trade offer for Love. GSW and Houston would be a great fit for Love, it depends on what they would have to give up. Neither have much to offer as far as draft picks.

Toucher and Rich
‏@Toucherandrich

Danny Ainge just told us that he would be open to trading for a high caliber player in their last year without an agreement to an extension.
Reply Retweet Favorite More

7:08 AM - 21 May 2014



bob



.

bobheckler wrote:Toucher and Rich
‏@Toucherandrich

Danny Ainge just told us that he would be open to trading for a high caliber player in their last year without an agreement to an extension.
Reply  Retweet  Favorite   More

7:08 AM - 21 May 2014



bob



.

Bob,
Thanks. It's interesting. I hope he didn't mean the trade for Love. Makes no sense from a "building a contender team" standpoint.

AK

no team is going to do a Howard trade for Love

any team that gets him (IF he gets traded) will have a wink and a nod form his agent that the deal they offer WILL be signed.

and please don't give me the old, they can't do that....team have been doing it and will continue to do it forever.

Sinus, you are correct that that team isn't deep. Kelly, Wallace and Bayless are the top three off the  bench, with Fav , Pressey and Johnson as the next group.

so any injuries and this team isn't going to be a contender.


now back to Vonleh or Smart at #6........oh well another 25 win season.

tjmakz wrote:Bob,

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the Nash signing/trade.
Nash had a very good year with Phoenix the previous year.
He broke a bone in his leg in game two of his Lakers career and that pretty much ended him as an effective player. It was a good trade in theory, but it obviously bombed in reality.

I can't see any way Love gets traded to the Lakers.
Their assets are the #7 pick and, and, and....
Personally, I don't want Pau back. He can help a contender but LA will not sniff the playoffs in the West next season unless a miracle happens.

Cleveland also has plenty of young assets to make a trade offer for Love. GSW and Houston would be a great fit for Love, it depends on what they would have to give up. Neither have much to offer as far as draft picks.

TJ,

What they put together was a hodgepodge team.  They had two aging leftovers from a team that ran the triangle, added another player (Howard) who would have been even better in the triangle than Bynum was but spurned Phil's triangle successor (Shaw) and added a coach with a run-and-gun system and a point guard that was not the fullcourt point guard he was when he ran that coach's system anymore.  Of course, that was after a false start with Mike Brown.

Signing a Steve Nash who was closer to 39 than 38 to a $9M/year contract is one thing.  Signing him to a 2-year $18M contract is also along the same lines since he could be used as an expiring contract the 2nd year (or, at least, the last half of the 2nd year).  Signing a player that old to a 3-year $27M contract is just flat-out dumb (or, should I say, "Dim").  If you look at his numbers from his last year in Phoenix you see they're down almost across the board in almost the same number of minutes per game EXCEPT that he played in only 62 games.  There were only 2 years, when he was 24 and 25 years old, when he played in fewer games.  Fewer games, declining production and anybody who watched him play that last year in Phoenix saw that he really didn't play much fullcourt anymore.  My point here is that Steve Nash was already visibly and statistically on the decline his last year in Phoenix.  Signing him to a 3-year deal was Dim even if he didn't break his leg.

In my opinion, and I admit this is just my opinion and not backed up by any truly reliable evidence, it's just my gut speaking, the D'Antoni/Nash signing was the Buss family (sans Dr. Buss, who was out of the picture at that point) trying to put butts in the seats with another "Showtime" act and see if they could ride Kobe's popularity for another couple of profitable years.  Anybody who was really trying to win a championship would not have added a run-and-gun coach and a 39 year old point guard to the team they had to work with.  That team just did not have the horses D'Antoni needed to win, assuming he has a winning system (which I do not).

Here's the link to Nash's page.  You can see for yourself that his numbers were off.  

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html

And they didn't even learn their lesson.  They signed a 35 1/2 year old Kobe Bryant to a 2-year, $50M contract before he proved he had/could come back from a major, major surgery.  That was additionally not smart since it didn't need to be done then.  They could have waited another month or two, watch to see the rust come off of Kobe and see how much athleticism he had after the achilles surgery and then make him an offer that was reasonable to a brutally pragmatic person like Kobe.  He wasn't going anywhere nor was he demanding an early negotiation "or else".  Instead, they jumped the gun and then he went down with another major injury requiring surgery.

I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking that deal.  I was quite clear and unequivocal the Saturday before game day when the lineup was announced that the decisions to sign D'Antoni and Nash to that contract were bad ones.  It just turned out that I was right on Monday.



bob



.

kdp59 wrote:first off the Numbers (salarys for next season)
Player-----Salary
Rondo-----$12.91
Wallace---$10.10
Green------$9.44
Bass-------$6.90
Boagns----$5.28 (Non-Guaranteed)
Anthony---$3.80
Faverani---$2.09
Olynyk-----$2.07
Sullinger---$1.42
Pressey----$0.816 (Non-Guaranteed)
Johnson---$0.916 (non-Guaranteed)
Babb------$0.816 (Non-Guaranteed)

Total cap space = $56.5M

Cap projection is $63.2M next season

projected TAX line is $77.0M

Trades:

1) Green, Sully and Bogans along with #6 pick this year and Clippers pick in 2015 to Minny for Love.

We send $16.14M to Minny and bring back $15.72 in Loves salary.

2) Bass and #17 pick to Houston for Asik.

Bass is at 6.9M and Asik's CAP # is 8.37M

Cap space used after the trades= $57.55M

we are $5.65M below the cap at this point.

We bring Pierce home on  a one year deal at $5M.

then  we re-sign Bradley ($6M) and Bayless($3M) under bird rights exemptions.

we are now at $71.55M .

we sign Iverson to a rookie minimum deal and add a couple undrafted or D-league shooters to compete with Babb for a roster spot.


we'd be right about at $73M and still under the tax line.

the roster would look like:

Asik
Fav
Iverson
Love
Kelly
Anthony
Pierce
Wallace
Johnson
Bradley
Rondo
Bayless
Pressey
Babb or  D-league, Undrafted rookie outside shooter.

If love could play lick of defense that may not be bad.  Overall that roster sucks.

Dboss

Dboss

you may be correct that the roster sucks, but I would argue it's better than this LIKELY one:

Kelly O.
Fav
Vonleh(#6)
Sully
Bass
Anthony
Green
Wallace
Warren (#17)
Bradley
Johnson
Bayless
Rondo
Pressey

since the rookie take up the same $5M in cap space as Pierces' deal in my fantasy off-season, there is no money for anyone else.

so now we can compare what our likely roster would be using both draft picks...I contend that if a roster with Asik, Love and Pierce sucks, that our likely roster is a disaster.

still no Defensive Anchor at Center, Still no crunch time go-to scorer.


in fact I can see Ainge being forced to move Rondo before the trade deadline (to get something in return before he leaves)and that team having a worst record than this years.

I hope Ainge decides a long re-build is NOT in the cards or we may be in for a LONG re-build.

http://nba.si.com/2014/05/21/kevin-love-trade-ideas-minnesota-timberwolves/2/


Kevin Love trade ideas for Timberwolves
KEVIN LOVE, MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES, ROB MAHONEY
BY ROB MAHONEY
HOUSTON ROCKETS
Timberwolves acquire: Chandler Parsons, Terrence Jones, Omer Asik, a 2015 first-round pick an a 2017 first-round pick (lottery-protected)

Rockets acquire: Kevin Love

Rockets owner Leslie Alexander has said his team will be chasing big names this summer. Love very much qualifies. The offensive fit could be brilliant. While incorporating three high-usage stars could lead to early growing pains, the raw firepower of Love, James Harden and Dwight Howard would be enough to overwhelm most opponents. Houston would take a step forward in its contention by consolidating talent in an ever-trendy trio of superstars.


Naturally, any such deal would come at very real cost to the Rockets. Parsons, who will earn just $964,750 next season in the final year of his deal, would be the toughest to see go for the same reasons he would be a very necessary inclusion. Parsons, 25, is not a star, but the former second-round pick is close enough and cheap enough to draw big interest. His versatility would be worth investing in, and Minnesota would have the inside track on Parsons’ 2015 free agency by holding his Bird rights. A package bolstered by Jones, a draft pick and Asik (for salary filler/trade bait) isn’t too bad, though Parsons’ interest in re-signing is a huge caveat.


GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS
Timberwolves acquire: David Lee, Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes

Warriors acquire: Kevin Love and Alexey Shved

This deal and its slight variations might be the most discussed of all potential Love trades, likely because of the pure exhilaration of possibly seeing Love space the floor for a team that already is pretty loaded. He is the gateway to a fever dream — a Warriors team that could make good on its offensive potential by giving Stephen Curry room to run pick-and-roll without sacrificing size. In essence, Love brings small-ball appeal without the situational discomfort of actually fielding smaller lineups.

Klay Thompson might not be enough for the Warriors to swing a potential deal for Kevin Love. (Andrew D. Bernstein/NBAE via Getty Images)
The Warriors are reportedly reluctant to include Klay Thompson in a Kevin Love trade. (Andrew D. Bernstein/NBAE via Getty Images)
Whether such a deal would be enticing enough to Minnesota, though, is another story entirely. It likely boils down to just what the Wolves make of Lee, whose $15.2 million average annual salary over the next two seasons is very rich for a player of his limitations, especially on defense. If Minnesota could see past those weaknesses to Lee’s wide range of offensive utility, then maybe an agreement could be reached. If the Wolves instead see Lee’s contract as a salary-matching burden, I don’t think Thompson is either productive or promising enough to seal the deal. (The Warriors, for their part, are reportedly reluctant to include the 24-year-old shooting guard in a Love trade.) Unloading Shved’s $3.3 million contract helps, but the Wolves would still be taking back about $2 million in salary for 2014-15 and clogging their cap with Lee’s deal for 2015-16.


PHOENIX SUNS
Timberwolves acquire: Markieff Morris, Archie Goodwin, Channing Frye, Phoenix’s 2014 first-round pick (No. 14), Washington’s 2014 first-round pick (No. 18) and the Lakers’ 2015 first-round pick (top-five protected)

Suns acquire: Kevin Love

I doubt that Minnesota will find any of the players included here to be all that appealing as the basis of a trade for Love, but maybe a trove of draft picks might do. If the Wolves completed a deal with his framework, they would have the 13th, 14th and 18th picks in this year’s draft. Those selections could become a haul of prospects to go along with Rubio and 2013 first-round picks Shabazz Muhammad and rising center Gorgui Dieng, or just as easily fuel subsequent moves to land more experienced players.

The question is whether doing this kind of legwork is really worthwhile for two mid-first-round picks and a future first-rounder, in addition to whatever value the Wolves place on Morris, Goodwin and Frye. I suspect not, but if Phoenix opts to empty its coffers for Love, it also owns Indiana’s 2014 first-round pick, Minnesota’s 2015 first-rounder (with rolling protection) and intriguing big men Miles Plumlee and Alex Len.


BOSTON CELTICS
Timberwolves acquire: Jared Sullinger, Brandon Bass, Keith Bogans, Boston’s 2014 first-round pick (No. 6) and Brooklyn’s 2016 first-round pick

Celtics acquire: Kevin Love and Alexey Shved

This is essentially a variation of the Suns’ trade, with a few minor differences. As constructed, this deal guarantees a mid-lottery pick in the way that a trade with the Suns would not. There are still no sure stars in that draft range, but talented players like Julius Randle and Marcus Smart should still be available at No. 6. Brooklyn’s 2016 first-round pick could also turn out to be better than the Lakers’ top-five-protected first-rounder in 2015. Kevin Garnett is 38, Paul Pierce could sign elsewhere this summer, Deron Williams has not impressed and Brook Lopez is a mammoth 7-footer with a worrisome injury history. It would not be a shock for the Nets to yield a lottery pick in 2016.

On top of that, Bogans’ $5.3 million salary can be cleared from the cap sheet without penalty, which — after accounting for the difference in incoming and outgoing salary and the rookie-scale deal of the No. 6 pick — would save Minnesota about $7 million. Those savings might seem abstract to fans who aren’t responsible for the Wolves’ finances, but they mean something for a team staring at a likely rebuild.



bob
MY NOTE:  The Boston trade with us getting Love and Shved doesn't, according to the NBA Trade Machine, unless you remove Shved.   It will work with Shved if Bogans is replaced with Wallace, but I don't see them doing that, but the numbers work and Shved is a gunner.


.

The last one was courtesy of Sports Illustrated.  This one is ESPN.


http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/68391/gift-of-love-29-trades-for-29-teams



http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/68391/gift-of-love-29-trades-for-29-teams


Boston Celtics

The deal: Trade Machine

Celtics receive: Kevin Love
Wolves receive: Kelly Olynyk, Jared Sullinger, Brandon Bass, Phil Pressey, Vitor Faverani, Nos. 6 and 17 picks in 2014, Celtics’ first-round pick in 2016

Here, the Wolves are basically getting the picks and then a bunch of cap filler and former first-rounders. There’s no reason to pretend Olynyk and Sullinger would be pieces for the Wolves at all. Being a Wolves fan since they've come into the NBA, I am pretty good at recognizing overvalued first-round picks who won’t be as good as you hope they are. This is about the picks, and with Nos. 6, 13 and 17 in this draft, they could load up or move up.



bob
MY NOTE:  I don't like this trade one single bit.  So, we give up 3 PFs for one?  And our only back up point guard?  And our only center when picking up a center is our #1 need?  "There’s no reason to pretend Olynyk and Sullinger would be pieces for the Wolves at all. Being a Wolves fan since they've come into the NBA, I am pretty good at recognizing overvalued first-round picks who won’t be as good as you hope they are"??!!  This guy's an idiot.  No wonder he's a Wolves fan.  He probably loved Wally Szerbiak too.  I bet he was the numbnut who coined the phrase "Wally World".  Was the author, who is SUCH a big Wolves fan, aware that Minny has 12 players under contract for next year and if they do a 5-1 trade they'll be over the 15 man limit?  Just throwing crap against the wall with this one, that's all this is.  Or maybe he's running down Sully and Kelly like the way Danny's running down this draft.


.

but why would Minny want Sully AND Bass?

they will likely have their pick of a coulpe of PF's at #6 also.

this is why Sully and GREEN makes more sense for them (and the fact they have nothing at SF right now).

oh yeah we keep the Nets future picks becasue theya re going to be good ones I think and give them the Clippers pick next year instead.

tell me we can't offer them the most, even Phoenix has lower picks (though they DO have other player assets that might be more tempting that the writer failed to see).

Celtics receive: Kevin Love
Wolves receive: Kelly Olynyk, Jared Sullinger, Brandon Bass, Phil Pressey, Vitor Faverani, Nos. 6 and 17 picks in 2014, Celtics’ first-round pick in 2016....


LMAO...if thats what they ask for Ainge should say ...good luck at Phoenix.


look like the guy just threw players in the trade machine to make it workm no real thought about value or even team needs.

why would Minny want all three of Bass and Sully and KO?

What would they want with fav...they have pekovic and Dieng?

More Importantly why woudl Ainge (or any other GM DECIMATE his enitre team)?

but hey..it works on some ESPN trade machine , so it must be a real option....NOT.

It would be nice to trade away a player who is surplus for your team (Bass) and expect it to be enticing bait (with a draft pick) for Asik. But, when considering trades, the proper forumula is to concoct it from the other team's point of view. Because that's what the Celtics will be up against in trying to make a trade. If he's surplus for you, odds are he's not widely coveted by a team that's better than yours.

Sam

sam wrote:It would be nice to trade away a player who is surplus for your team (Bass) and expect it to be enticing bait (with a draft pick) for Asik.  But, when considering trades, the proper forumula is to concoct it from the other team's point of view.  Because that's what the Celtics will be up against in trying to make a trade.  If he's surplus for you, odds are he's not widely coveted by a team that's better than yours.

Sam

sam,

I'm going to agree with most of your post, but disagree with your conclusion.

One should look at trades from the other team's point of view in order to ascertain what they are needing and will be hoping to receive in the trade.  What we consider to be surplus, however, is not necessarily synonymous with what they consider to be surplus.


Looking at the Minny roster, for example.  They currently have 12 players under contract for next year.

5 - Pekovic, Dieng, Turiaf
4 - Love
3 - Mbah a Moute, Brewer, Budinger
2 - Martin, Mohammed, Shved
1 - Rubio, Barea

They had Dante Cunningham on the roster last year, his contract has expired, but he's a 6'8" PF who doesn't rebound well.  Think we could fix that for them?

If they lose Love wouldn't they be interested in at least one PF in return?  How about a veteran like Bass who rebounds in traffic, is deadly from mid-range and an outstanding defender (something they do not currently have at the PF position)?  Or Minnesota hometown boy and double-double machine Kris Humphries?  Throw in a #6 pick that could be Julius Randle or Noah Vonleh (at least one of them will almost certainly be available at #6) and they went from having one PF under contract to three with one of them a high lottery pick.

Bass and Hump may be surplus to us, but to a team that is all but committed to losing the only PF they have under contract, they are not.



bob



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Bob, now I have to disagree with your conclusion. As a general rule (and there are certainly exceptions), the reason a player is considered surplus is because he lacks the ingredients to be a high-impact player. If someone isn't a high-impact player, all the teams know it, and they're less likely to be excited about that player. Just because they have a roster opening, the business of replacing a high-impact player doesn't mean they're necessarily interested in filling it with a non-impact player.

Sam

sam wrote:Bob, now I have to disagree with your conclusion.  As a general rule (and there are certainly exceptions), the reason a player is considered surplus is because he lacks the ingredients to be a high-impact player.  If someone isn't a high-impact player, all the teams know it, and they're less likely to be excited about that player.  Just because they have a roster opening, the business of replacing a high-impact player doesn't mean they're necessarily interested in filling it with a non-impact player.

Sam

sam,

We have 4 PFs. 4. They could all be Kevin Love and we'd still have a surplus.

If Minny will only accept a high-impact player to replace their high-impact player and not look at their roster imbalance and where they need to fill a hole (like the way we're focused on Asik or Gortat or almost any other legit center to fix our roster imbalance) then bye-bye Rondo, since he's really the only player we have that is in the same class as Love.


bob


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