Great read on Kobe and the state of the lakers..

tjmakz wrote:LeBron and Bosh took less when they had a championship team.

False.  They took less BEFORE coming to Miami, in hopes that extra cap space would help Reilly build a contender
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/10/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-chris-bosh-each-leave-15-million-on-the-table/

Same thing Duncan, Parker and Ginobili did
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nba-finals-no-reason-spurs-cant-win-it-again-next-season/2014/06/16/f4c7894e-f5ae-11e3-a606-946fd632f9f1_story.html

And Dirk as well.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4702461/discount-stars-dirk-duncan-two-of-a-kind

The idea that a player who has earned north of 200 million dollars in his career is getting "hosed" is a joke....straight laugh out loud stuff.

So here is a simple question for you and KJ.

Is Kobe Bryant the best player in the NBA in 2014-15?

Regardless of the absolute amount of money, when you are paid less than market value by someone who can afford to pay you market value, you are getting hosed. To think otherwise is a joke... straight laugh out loud stuff.

The league is making money hand over foot. The players have gone from receiving 57% of the annual income to receiving 49% - that's a 14% loss. There are a lot more players than owners - you can do the math. So yeah, when owners get guys like Duncan to take less money, they are hosing them.

mrkleen09 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:LeBron and Bosh took less when they had a championship team.

False.  They took less BEFORE coming to Miami, in hopes that extra cap space would help Reilly build a contender
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/10/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-chris-bosh-each-leave-15-million-on-the-table/

Same thing Duncan, Parker and Ginobili did
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nba-finals-no-reason-spurs-cant-win-it-again-next-season/2014/06/16/f4c7894e-f5ae-11e3-a606-946fd632f9f1_story.html

And Dirk as well.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4702461/discount-stars-dirk-duncan-two-of-a-kind

The idea that a player who has earned north of 200 million dollars in his career is getting "hosed" is a joke....straight laugh out loud stuff.

So here is a simple question for you and KJ.

Is Kobe Bryant the best player in the NBA in 2014-15?

Is Kobe a better player then Amare Stoudamire and Joe Johnson who are the second and third highest paid players in the league?
Anyway, when are the best players paid the highest?
They can be but rarely are.
No player has added more financial value to his team over the last 10 years then Kobe has.
His true value is probably $50m-$75m per year. Maybe more.
The Miami Heat took less knowing they would compete for a championship.
They took less upon signing with Miami.
If LeBron was in Kobe's shoes would he have accepted $15m down from $30m, knowing only Nash and Sacre were on the team? Not a chance.
LeBron only wanted a max contract for this season, and rightfully so.
The superstars should not have to make huge concessions for the owners.
The Spurs have been together for years. Yes, they took less because they were championship contenders.

mrkleen09 wrote:
The idea that a player who has earned north of 200 million dollars in his career is getting "hosed" is a joke....straight laugh out loud stuff.

So here is a simple question for you and KJ.

Is Kobe Bryant the best player in the NBA in 2014-15?

No, he isn't.

Carmelo, Dwight, and Bosh all make more than Lebron. Same goes for Joe Johnson and Amare making more than him, as has been stated.

Kevin Durant, last year's MVP and probably the #2 player, is ranked 11th in salary. We can go back and forth on this if you want, but it's very silly.

I believe you're still missing the point. Money isn't the issue. LA's problem is its management.



KJ

k_j_88 wrote: No, he isn't.

Carmelo, Dwight, and Bosh all make more than Lebron. Same goes for Joe Johnson and Amare making more than him, as has been stated.

Kevin Durant, last year's MVP and probably the #2 player, is ranked 11th in salary. We can go back and forth on this if you want, but it's very silly.

I believe you're still missing the point. Money isn't the issue. LA's problem is its management.

KJ

I am not missing any points - Kobe is overpaid by any measure short of lifetime achievement.  The Lakers management might also be terrible. Those are two separate issues that live just fine side by side.

mrkleen09 wrote:So are you suggesting that the Lakers negotiations with Kobe consisted on them making one offer, which he accepted?  There was never any discussion that him taking less would be beneficial to the flexibility of the team and allowing them to surround him with better players?  Please.

From Yahoo Sports:

Between his signature on a two-year, $48.5 million contract extension and a cross-country flight to the East Coast on Monday, Kobe Bryant was left befuddled and bemused by those who declared him greedy and uncaring about chasing championships.

"This was easy," Bryant told Yahoo Sports on Monday night. "This wasn't a negotiation. The Lakers made their offer with cap and building a great team in mind while still taking care of me as a player.

"I simply agreed to the offer."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe-bryant-on--48-5-million-deal---this-wasn-t-a-negotiation--020919237.html

Maybe KJ is right - the Lakers management are a bunch of idiots.

Even after signing Kobe to the extension, they had the cap space to sign LeBron or Carmelo, but neither one was walking through that door.

This has gone down a narrow path focusing on Kobe's contract, which is one small part of what the article talked about. There are valid criticisms of Kobe, but I still think the article was a hatchet job.

If I'm going to pick what put the Lakers in their current state, it's mainly David Stern killing the Chris Paul trade, followed closely by the disastrous results of the Dwight and Nash acquisitions. Everything else is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

What LA has to do now is scout and draft well, develop young talent, and eventually pry a superstar away from another team.

But somehow, I don't think hiring Byron Scott, another retread, is a step in the right direction.



KJ

Why is it such a big deal for LA to supposedly overpay Kobe?
Where are the threads about Roy Hibbert or Eric Gordon getting max contracts?
How many people really care that Chandler Parsons was significantly overpaid this summer?
Owners have different reason to pay players what they want.

Kleen always jumps on the negative when it comes to Kobe whether it's about how much he gets paid, how his injuries occurred, etc. Sometimes being a one trick pony gets a little boring in this forum...just saying....

k_j_88 wrote:What LA has to do now is scout and draft well, develop young talent, and eventually pry a superstar away from another team.

But somehow, I don't think hiring Byron Scott, another retread, is a step in the right direction.



KJ

What coach could LA have hired that is not a retread?
Should they have gone the college route with a coach that has never been an assistant or head coach in the NBA?

Super star contract for superstar numbers.

Bryant- Last year of previous contract-2012-13, age 34
  Points per game that year- 27.3 - ranked 3rd.
  Assists per game             - 6      - ranked 18
  Minutes played per game  -38.6  - ranked 2nd-(tie)

Duncan- Last year of previous contract-2011-12, age 35
  Points per game that year- 15.4 -- ranked 39th
  Rebounds per game         - 9.0   -- ranked 16th
  Minutes per game            -28.2  -- ranked  81st

Above based on a minimum of 1634 minutes played which is the number of minutes played by Duncan in 2011-12.

 swish

tjmakz wrote:Kleen always jumps on the negative when it comes to Kobe whether it's about how much he gets paid, how his injuries occurred, etc. Sometimes being a one trick pony gets a little boring in this forum...just saying....

TJ - you are right. I dont like Kobe. Nor do I like the Lakers. I will just recuse myself from Kobe threads in the future...it is fair point.

I never could have guessed this thread would have such legs.  Shows how much I know.

Sam

tjmakz wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:What LA has to do now is scout and draft well, develop young talent, and eventually pry a superstar away from another team.

But somehow, I don't think hiring Byron Scott, another retread, is a step in the right direction.



KJ

What coach could LA have hired that is not a retread?
Should they have gone the college route with a coach that has never been an assistant or head coach in the NBA?

Maybe they should have. Fresh direction, opposed to a coach with no track record of success.


KJ

swish wrote:Super star contract for superstar numbers.

Bryant- Last year of previous contract-2012-13, age 34
  Points per game that year- 27.3 - ranked 3rd.
  Assists per game             - 6      - ranked 18
  Minutes played per game  -38.6  - ranked 2nd-(tie)

Duncan- Last year of previous contract-2011-12, age 35
  Points per game that year- 15.4 -- ranked 39th
  Rebounds per game         - 9.0   -- ranked 16th
  Minutes per game            -28.2  -- ranked  81st

Above based on a minimum of 1634 minutes played which is the number of minutes played by Duncan in 2011-12.

 swish

whats your point? Kobe is a ballhog, we all know that, great player.

if you watched any of the Finals, Duncan can still anchor a defense at a championship level, and being the centerpiece of that defense enables everyone else to do their job very efficiently, but it all starts with him in the paint. Stats are for losers, the main reason Spurs won last year and have been so close to contention every year is because of Duncan....fock the stats!!!!!

cowens

"whats your point"

Simply pointing out that kobe got the big bucks in 2013-14 because he had the big numbers in 2012-13. I would be very surprised if stats don't play a huge roll in contract negotiations.

swish

if I'm starting a team right now, I'd take Duncan over Kome in a second.

mrkleen09 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:Kleen always jumps on the negative when it comes to Kobe whether it's about how much he gets paid, how his injuries occurred, etc. Sometimes being a one trick pony gets a little boring in this forum...just saying....

TJ - you are right.  I dont like Kobe.  Nor do I like the Lakers.  I will just recuse myself from Kobe threads in the future...it is fair point.

kleen will you stay strong and stay YOURSELF!!! don't let tj, mr misinformation intimidate or dictate to you!!

cowens/oldschool wrote: kleen will you stay strong and stay YOURSELF!!! don't let tj, mr misinformation intimidate or dictate to you!!

Thanks Cow...and thanks for always having my back in Lakers discussions. I think you know me enough to know I am not intimidated.....but I do agree with TJ that sometimes I comment about Kobe just to break balls...and I really dont need to be agitated with arguing over silly things that dont matter to me like the Lakers.

Now when it comes to the Celtics, you can bet I will be right in there throwing elbows with the best of them. And I know that even you and I will butt heads again soon over something or another. But we both know that any disagreement we have comes from both of us loving the Celtics with passion - and I know what a good natured man and great father and uncle you are....so it all rolls down my back soon after I hit send.

For the record, I miss Perk too.

k_j_88 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:What LA has to do now is scout and draft well, develop young talent, and eventually pry a superstar away from another team.

But somehow, I don't think hiring Byron Scott, another retread, is a step in the right direction.



KJ

What coach could LA have hired that is not a retread?
Should they have gone the college route with a coach that has never been an assistant or head coach in the NBA?

Maybe they should have. Fresh direction, opposed to a coach with no track record of success.


KJ

The coach of this Lakers team makes no difference.
They do not have the talent to come close to making the playoffs in the West.

mrkleen09 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:  kleen will you stay strong and stay YOURSELF!!! don't let tj, mr misinformation intimidate or dictate to you!!

Thanks Cow...and thanks for always having my back in Lakers discussions.  I think you know me enough to know I am not intimidated.....but I do agree with TJ that sometimes I comment about Kobe  just to break balls...and I really dont need to be agitated with arguing over silly things that dont matter to me like the Lakers.

Now when it comes to the Celtics, you can bet I will be right in there throwing elbows with the best of them.  And I know that even you and I will butt heads again soon over something or another.  But we both know that any disagreement we have comes from both of us loving the Celtics with passion - and I know what a good natured man and great father and uncle you are....so it all rolls down my back soon after I hit send.

For the record, I miss Perk too.

how could you not? the guys toughness defined that team, he made KG much more comfortable in that paint.....used to love watching Ron Artest slow down and be careful when Perk was setting a pick on HIM, even he knew his limitations to his own health. Perk was so committed to his role, he bled green....was Rondo's best friend.

cow,

Maybe you should start a missing Perkins thread...???
It is a little off topic here.

tj your brilliant, topics can change on a whim here, you were brilliantly wrong on calling Nash's original fractured leg a minor injury....remember that one?

cowens/oldschool wrote:tj your brilliant, topics can change on a whim here, you were brilliantly wrong on calling Nash's original fractured leg a minor injury....remember that one?

Maybe you should also start a Steve Nash Oct/Nov 2012 leg injury thread...

But, yes, I do remember that  Steve was supposed to be back in less than 2 weeks after his injury, based on his MRI results.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/03/steve-nash-injury-small-leg-fracture-lakers_n_2069609.html

Steve Nash Injury: Lakers PG Has Small Left Leg Fracture, Out Another Week

How about a tri-fecta and starting a Kobe fued with Smush Parker thread?