Max contract for Rondo---- You gotta be kidding

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=ast_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=mp_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=pts_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_mp

Above link is for guards who last year played at least 1800 minutes and averaged at least 5 assist per 36 minutes.  1800 minutes places a player in a top 5 or 6 on a roster. Players were sorted by points per game per 36 minutes. Current salaries for above players Follow.

  From #1 (Hardin) thru #34( Rubio)       1- 14.7 mil,   2- 10.6 mil   3-  7.0 mil,    4- 7.2 mil,  5- 3.3 mil,   6- 7.5 mil,   8- 20.0 mil,  9- 3.5 mil,  10- 14.7 mil,  11- 8.3 mil,  12- 8.8 mil,  13- 8.0 mil,  14- 10.7 mil,  15- 12.0 mil,  16- 3.2 mil,  17- 11.5 mil,  18- 2.3 mil,  19- 3.0 mil,  20- 2.1 mil,  21- 2.2 mil,  22- 2.0 mil  23- 8.0 mil,  24-19.7 mil,  25-4.7 mil,  26- 8.3 mil,  27- 2.5 mil,  28- 3.7 mil,  29- 2.7 mil,  30- 7.o mil,  31- 6.3 mil,  32- 4.0 mil,  33- 3.6 mil,  34- 5.0 mil,.

 Rondo lifetime--  assist- 9.2 per 36 minutes,   12 points per 36 minutes ,   current salary- 12.9 mil.
 Missing from list due to injuries ( didn't play 1800 minutes last year),   Rose- salary 18.8 mil, Westbrook- salary 15.7 mil

Rondo plugs in just below # 31 Jack in the points per game column.

 In a league where the big bucks are needed to sign the elite scores and rebounders  wasting max money on a non scoring complimentary player like Rondo is just plain stupid in my opinion.

swish

The Rondo backers keep saying 2 things about the know-it-all asshole (Kobe's words) that make no sense.

1. Boston can't attract star talent without Rondo on the team.

This is nonsensical for a number of reasons: first, there are few upcoming free agents to attract; second, a winning team and gobs of money arewhat you need to attract star talent; and third, a team can't win with a point guard who can't score, but thinks he can.

2. Rondo knows how to run the half-court offense.

This is nonsensical because the Celtics don't have a half-court offense. It's mostly pick and rolls and/or drives and kick-outs by Rondo. The offense Brad is trying to install isn't based on a dominating point guard, it's based on movement. A few games ago, Rondo had the ball fifteen feet from the basket with 7 seconds left and down 2 points. He didn't/couldn't/wouldn't get a shot off. You gotta wonder what Brad thinks about the know-it-all asshole after that display of ineptitude.

Here's a prediction: he won't get traded or re-signed. Danny'll let him go to the Lakers so he can screw them up.

swish wrote:In a league where the big bucks are needed to sign the elite scores and rebounders

By that logic, it's appropriate to spend big bucks to sign an elite assist man (first in the league) who is also an elite rebounder for his position (and 40th in the league for all players, big men included).

I don't think Rondo is worth a max contract, but he is a different player altogether than anyone else in the NBA, so this is too narrow of a way to evaluate him. The closest comparison I can think of is Ricky Rubio, who is very good at assists and also doesn't shoot or score well, but there are key differences -- Rubio shoots free throws well and doesn't rebound like Rondo (he gets around four rebounds per game). Rubio is signed through 2018-19 for a less-than-max contract ($15.1 million in the last year of the contract).

By the way, Rubio is at the bottom of your list, yet Minnesota made it a priority to re-sign him.

The last I checked rondo was # 1 in rebounds at the PG position.

So he is # 1 in assists overall and # 1 in rebounding at the PG spot.  He's horrible at the line and he cannot seem to make a shot from the field.  But historically he has shot a high FG precentage but has always been a poor free throw shooter.

If you like Rondo you like him and appreciate what he does really good and if you do not like him you focus on what he doesn't do good.  

If the Celtics were looking for a center and found one who was the # 1 rebounder and a top defender in the NBA, an average scorer (10 PPG and a 50% free throw shooter) how much would he be worth to this team?

dboss

I think Rondo needs shot counseling, but I hope he stays in Green. When he shoots, quite often I know his shot will clank, but worse, he knows it, too. His shot is awkward, the antithesis of his smooth passing strokes. When he's at the line, I'm tempted to shout at him to pass the ball toward the hoop, shoot it higher and softer, not even aim it. Sometimes he approaches this with his little floaters in the lane. They're not really precise, but the ball is above the hoop, and gravity can do the rest. When he's shooting a J, he holds the ball too low on the shoulder and kind of heaves it like a shot put. When he's confident, some of bombs land on target. When he's working his way back from injury and doubt, like the last two years, many miss.
He needs to focus more on his form, not results, when he's shooting. Square up to the hoop, jump a little higher, center the ball and to hell with whether it goes in or not: eventually they'll start dropping.
Is he worth a max contract? No, but he's worth a considerable investment, IMO, say $15 million a year. His calling cards are his passes and he's leading the league in assists as he works his way back from two injuries. He's focusing on what he does best before concentrating on what he does less well. If he weren't such a splendid passer and rebounder (for a PG), I'd say let him go.
But he is a gutsy elite player. I say let him stay, offer him good money, and tons of encouragement. He's already shown us what he can do in the clutch when the stakes are high. He's already seen how injuries can derail a season or two so naturally he's not inclined to overextend himself in the early part of a rebuilding campaign.
For myself as a fan, the Celtics don't need to win another game this year. That doesn't mean I don't root to win every game, but my focus is on the future. Land a good center, another wing scorer, help Smart reach his full potential, keep Rondo, and I think we're off to the races. Hawk

Outside wrote:

swish wrote:In a league where the big bucks are needed to sign the elite scores and rebounders

By that logic, it's appropriate to spend big bucks to sign an elite assist man (first in the league) who is also an elite rebounder for his position (and 40th in the league for all players, big men included).

I don't think Rondo is worth a max contract, but he is a different player altogether than anyone else in the NBA, so this is too narrow of a way to evaluate him. The closest comparison I can think of is Ricky Rubio, who is very good at assists and also doesn't shoot or score well, but there are key differences -- Rubio shoots free throws well and doesn't rebound like Rondo (he gets around four rebounds per game). Rubio is signed through 2018-19 for a less-than-max contract ($15.1 million in the last year of the contract).

By the way, Rubio is at the bottom of your list, yet Minnesota made it a priority to re-sign him.

I neglected to note my definition of elite player. An elite player is a player that makes the all league team. And in the overwhelming majority of the time they are players that excel in scoring and or rebounding. I don't think that Rondo will make the all nba team this year as a score or rebounder.

As to Rubio-- He's a long way from being all NBA player as a scorer or rebounder. This years salary of 5 mil is ok I guess. He's still young so we'll just have to wait to see if he develops into an all league performer as a scorer an warrants near max or max salary. Just one guys opinion

swish

Players fulfill different roles on their respective teams. Some are the defensive intimidators/rebounders. Some are high-end scorers. Some guys come off the bench to ignite a spark to maintain momentum when the starters are out. You also have distributors tasked with getting their players easy baskets.

Rondo's game is not centered around "elite scoring." And why should it be? Because some people think the 1 has to score a bunch of points? What exactly have Kyrie, Westbrook, and Rose won? Just wondering.



KJ

Anyone that is trying to evaluate Rondo by looking at his points per game average - is someone I have to ask a simple question. What have you been watching for the past 8 years?

We can agree and disagree about the overall value of Rajon to the Celtics and what he should be paid. But to begin and end with scoring average is foolish beyond comprehension.

Rondo does not have to "score" for the Celtics, but his offense cannot take steps back like it seemingly has this season either.

There is a huge difference in having a chance to win at the end of the game when your starting point guard has 12 points and hits at least 50% of his free throws and scoring 2 points and shooting 30% from the line.

With all of that said, I did like Rondo's game much better the other night when he had much better control of his team and the game.

The last I checked rondo was # 1 in rebounds at the PG position.

So he is # 1 in assists overall and # 1 in rebounding at the PG spot.  He's horrible at the line and he cannot seem to make a shot from the field.  But historically he has shot a high FG precentage but has always been a poor free throw shooter.

If you like Rondo you like him and appreciate what he does really good and if you do not like him you focus on what he doesn't do good.  

If the Celtics were looking for a center and found one who was the # 1 rebounder and a top defender in the NBA, an average scorer (10 PPG and a 50% free throw shooter) how much would he be worth to this team?

- dboss

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Players fulfill different roles on their respective teams. Some are the defensive intimidators/rebounders. Some are high-end scorers. Some guys come off the bench to ignite a spark to maintain momentum when the starters are out. You also have distributors tasked with getting their players easy baskets.

Rondo's game is not centered around "elite scoring." And why should it be? Because some people think the 1 has to score a bunch of points? What exactly have Kyrie, Westbrook, and Rose won? Just wondering.



- KJ

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Anyone that is trying to evaluate Rondo by looking at his points per game average - is someone I have to ask a simple question. What have you been watching for the past 8 years?

We can agree and disagree about the overall value of Rajon to the Celtics and what he should be paid. But to begin and end with scoring average is foolish beyond comprehension.

- mrkleen09

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These are three looks I have to agree with.

Rondo is what Rondo has always been, an exceptional talent at point guard.  Does he do everything well?  No.  Does he have to in order to have high value to a team, any team, this team?  No.

And before I get into the main theme on this debate, I hope we've seen the last of "well Rondo hasn't shown he can do it without three Hall of Fame Candidates doing the heavy lifting."  Why do I say that?  1.  Kevin Garnett was already in serious decline when he got here, he had one year where he was even near what he once was.  It had been years since he was effective in the paint, he needed someone to get him a shot from around 15 feet and follow his shot because he no longer did.  Who did that?  2. Paul Pierce was still the ultimate warrior, but never was all that fast and wasn't getting quicker.  He had started regressing a bit to where he needed a teammate to set him up, versus always creating on his own, more than in the past.  Who did that?  3.  Ray Allen could still fill it up with the best of them, but seemed to finally discover defense playing in the back court with another talented defender who shared the load.  Who did that?

You play five at a time in this game, seldom do you win without complimentary skills on the court together.  The problem is not necessarily Rondo's lack of scoring, it's as much a problem that others can't hit.  The problem isn't necessarily that Rondo is bad from the charity stripe, it's that this team is still at a stage where we can't do anything to prevent other teams from being in position to exploit the fact.

So we come to a point when we need to decide his value to our team, and his known desire to get paid.  Well, don't pay him then.  Can you replace his strengths with anyone we stand a realistic shot of acquiring? Better still, with one or even two players if that's what it takes?

The only possible bright idea in terms of parting ways would be to use what appears to be the high level of interest in him around the league to bring in a player of equal or greater value to our team.  And no, that absolutely is not limited to a center.  So who do we use him in trade for?  And wait a minute, who in their right minds will trade us anyone for him?  His contract is going to do that magic pro sports vanishing act.  No need to trade, just compete to sign him if you really want him that badly.  He's already stated he's not thinking about contracts right now, and won't until after the season.  That takes the rest of the options off the table as well.

It's no longer even a matter of does he deserve a max contract, it's a matter of we have no choice because he isn't going to bring us a better or even equivalent player in trade.

There are no particularly appetizing prospects coming up as free agents if we let Rondo walk in order to use the available money he leaves behind. At least, not good enough to make it worth having to look for a top shelf point guard after swapping one hole in the boat for another.  Despite having a number of draft picks stockpiled we have no highly desirable combination of picks and players under contract to trade that will bring us back a player or two of the quality we need if Rondo is gone.  The one player we suspect might replace Rondo, Smart, is at the very start of his career and too far from proving that he indeed is the answer at point guard.

Then again, we keep him and we keep a point guard who's at the top of the pile when it comes to setting up his teammates, rebounding, and playing a defense that is better than he's generally given credit for.  You want him to score?  Fine, we should all remember that when asked he can put up some pretty decent totals.  When asked. He's not being asked to do that now.

So back to the question; does he deserve to cash in.  That's actually something that's more of a direct question in another thread, but this one swipes at the same target. I'll answer that with a question; do we want to build a playoff team?

It's a question of far more than just points.  Given the totality of what Rondo's game is, and the situation with regard to his or anyone else on the team's trade value. the answer is yes; pay the man wearing the green number 9 jersey.  The answer is made even easier when we really have little in the way of alternatives that make sense.  It would make sense to build around Rondo, and yes, it will take time.

NYCelt,

+ infinity.

I'd like to see what this team can do with an interior intimidator and another scorer. Right now, Rondo is showing he can still play at a high level. There just needs to be a few more horses...


KJ

NYCELT, I agree. Sometimes its hard to believe how many fans want to unload Rondo. When he got double-digit assists a few years ago, it was because he was surrounded by such talent. Now, with an unsung cast, he's still doing it, because he is a masterful passer, excellent rebounder, decent scorer and gutsy player who rises to the occasion. Sure, it frustrating to watch him go 2-for-10 from the line, but those lapses don't really hurt the team when it counts. As Joni Mitchell sang: "Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone..." If Rondo were gone, feeding Carmelo and. co., or Kobe and co. against us, I think his unique skill set would be painfully obvious. Hawk.