Trade Rumor du Jour - 2/15

Courtesy of Hoopsworld, by way of Marc Spears:


Boston-Golden State Rumor: While Marc J. Spears reported none of Boston's inquiries turned into substantive talks over the weekend, there is one deal that may have been tossed around.

The rumor out of Dallas was that Boston has discussed a deal with Golden State that would send Ray Allen, Kendrick Perkins, and J.R. Giddens to the Warriors for Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins.

The trade is cap friendly and it was just one of the rumors floating around this past weekend. It was reported that Boston has also reached out to Sacramento and Philadelphia as they continue to shop Allen for younger talent.

Parting with Perkins would be tough since he's capable of defending the big men in the East, something Biedrins could struggle with. But in order to pry young talent away from teams, it's going to take more than just Allen's expiring contract.

Keep an eye on Boston in these next few days. While Danny Ainge denies any talks getting serious, it's clear the team wants to move Allen and a deal could be brewing.
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Whatever you thought about the Ellis-for-Allen trade rumor, I think this makes that deal worse. Biedrins has the softest hands of any big man in the game, but he is no defensive force that's for sure. We can forget about stopping Shaq or Howard if we give up Perk for Andres.

bob

Bob, I'm all for trading Ray, but letting go of Perk is one heckuva bad idea.

worcester

Welcome. ANd I concur...people forget what beast does every game on d.

Biedrins is a big body in the paint, good rebounder and blocks a lot of shots.

My concern would be his free throw shooting.

Ellis, though, for I makes it a deal worth considering.

Tark

The more I hear the less I think we'll be doing anything.

nyc

I heard you and Mr Kleen for dudder and considerations....care to comment?

Biedrins is 6'11", 240#. He is NOT a wide body. In fact, he gets beat up regularly by big men. Turiaf is the player Nellie likes to put on wide bodies and, over the course of the game, will try to slide Biedrins over to PF. This has been happening more this year due to season-ending injuries to PFs Randolph and Wright. Perk is 6'10", 280#. Biedrins is more of a PF than a center in this league, but the GSW have to play the hand they're dealt.

His assist to turnover ratio is good for a big man. Much better than Perk's. Much.

Offensively, he has no outside game (neither does Perk, but he's developing a mid-range game). Biedrins really doesn't have much of a mid-range game either. He gets a lot of his baskets off of give-and-gos, pic-and-rolls and other motion offensive sets. This takes advantage of his soft hands. He doesn't create his own shots much. You don't see him backing his man down, nor do you see him turning and facing his man a lot either. As a result, Andres has a slightly better fg% than Perk. He doesn't get the ball unless he's in shooting position and often when his man is out of position due to the motion of the play. How does that fit in with the Celtics' offensive playbook?

His career ft% is 52% (13% this year. That is NO typo). Perk's is 58.7% career and 61.4% this year. Hard to believe, but Biedrins is a worse free throw shooter than Perk. Perk takes 5.1 fta/36mins while Biedrins is only taking 1.3 this year and averages 3 fta/36 career. Perk is taking over 5 fta this year, more than double his career average of 3.3. You getting a little crazy about Rondo's ft shooting and the hack-a-Rondo defenses we're seeing? Biedrins makes Perk look like Ray Allen on the line. According to 82games.com, Biedrins shoots 46% from the line "in the clutch" (his career ft% is 52%, so he shoots even worse in the clutch). Perk shoots 63% "in the clutch" (his career ft% is 58.7%, so Perk shoots better "in the clutch").

He also commits more fouls than Perk. 5.5 per 36 mins for Biedrins vs 3.8 for Perk. That's almost 2 pfs more than Perk. That could be 4 fta for the opponent.

Biedrins is a slightly better rebounder per 36 minutes of playing time. He also makes .8 steals per 36mins vs .4 for Perk.

The bottom line is that statistically, these two players are very similar. But make no mistake about it, Perk is a much, much tougher hombre. He goes to war against Shaq and Howard and plays them about as well as anybody can. Biedrins would be chopped meat against them. Both men are low post players, so we wouldn't be extending any teams' defenses with the trade. Biedrins' offense, though is very dependent upon his teammates getting him the ball where he wants it.

bob

bobheck

I watch ellis when I am in the bay area and think he is a pretty rare bird. We wold instantly have a guy who can get his own shot anytime he wants it and Ellis is a pretty bruising, fearless guy to be hi height too.

We would have to think hard about this one. Perk it seems is the soul of the d now wih kg being diminished...but ellis has pretty much unlimited potential and has never been in a winning environment as a pro.

jeb65 wrote:bobheck

I watch ellis when I am in the bay area and think he is a pretty rare bird. We wold instantly have a guy who can get his own shot anytime he wants it and Ellis is a pretty bruising, fearless guy to be hi height too.

We would have to think hard about this one. Perk it seems is the soul of the d now wih kg being diminished...but ellis has pretty much unlimited potential and has never been in a winning environment as a pro.

jeb,

As you may know, I live in the bay area. I try to root for the local team, GSW, whenever they're not playing the Celts. When I die, I know I'm going to heaven because I'm spending my time in hoop hell.

Ellis is quite a talent. You are right about his ability to create a shot. He doesn't play much D, but nobody really does except for Turiaf.

Being on a winning team with HOFers can change a player. Remember, though, that Ellis came right out of high school to play for Nellie and his wide-open free-styling gameplan. So he doesn't have the years of discipline that even a player like Rondo had with 2 years at Kentucky.

You're right about Perk and our D. Right now, with KG as he is, I'd have to say he's the best and most reliable defensive player on the Celtics.

Ellis for Allen? That'd be a hard deal to turn down. Ellis and Biedrins for Allen and Perk? Much easier to say no to. The team would have a very, very different perspective on offense vs defense. We'd almost become a completely different team and without Posey's Ubuntu generating chemistry for the team, I'd have to say we might have to write off the championship this year.

bob

bobheck

I concur. I have been a warriors fan as a second team for a while too. Pretty hard cheese. We would make this deal for the future and it would lock up a bad ass backcourt for many years. I think Ellis could be taught d and would have the willingness to work.

We lose all over in the perk aspect of the deal. I would do it only if it was agreed that Ray would be able to come back next year then we'd have them both. All in all though...a lateral move desinged for future benefit.

jeb65 wrote:bobheck

I concur. I have been a warriors fan as a second team for a while too. Pretty hard cheese. We would make this deal for the future and it would lock up a bad ass backcourt for many years. I think Ellis could be taught d and would have the willingness to work.

We lose all over in the perk aspect of the deal. I would do it only if it was agreed that Ray would be able to come back next year then we'd have them both. All in all though...a lateral move desinged for future benefit.

jeb,

A killer backcourt. An ancient, too-light frontcourt. That might be fine in the wild, wild west, but in the eastern conference no beef means no joy.

bob

Cleve's backcourt is older than methoosala...but i hear you. Losing Perk would I think hurt us in so many ways that we cant see. But we would damn sure see them when he goes.

bob and jeb

If the deal were made ( including Perk & Biedrens ) the Celts would still have the expiring contracts of Pierce & Garnett over the next 2 years to make future moves. The jewel of this trade is Ellis. Don't pass up the chance to get him.. The rest of the lineup, including Biedrens, can be changed as needed over the next 2 years.

Swish

swish

I just cant see even a team as biblical dumb as gsw doing this trade. I bet if they did we could resign ray next year...

If this deal went through I could see GS immediately waiving Ray and being available to the C's in 30 days.

Not a CBA expert, but I believe there is a 30 day waiting period.

Tark

tark

Surely to god they wouldnt just release him. He does a lot of things that could help their very bad team.

Jeb,

Just seems if they are trading Ellis it is not about winning anything this year.

I would have to think the apple in their eye is Perk.

Tark

Tark

This one would blow the top off my head. If it's agreed we could get ray back in 30 i would have to do it.

Without that I consider it a lateral move.

Jeb,

It is a no brainer in that scenario, even if Ray only becomes available in the off season I'd still do it...he could accept the MLE and Pierce's expiring contract could be moved for a C next year.

I thought Biedrins looked bigger than 240#, but evn then, against the few teams in the East with wide bodies, employ a C by committee approach until obtaing a viable C in trade or via the draft.

Have to believe an Ellis/Rondo backcourt in combination with what we have on roster would still be a playoff team, to be enhanced along the way as contracts expire.

Tark

tark

You and I dont see Ray's worth the same. I am a pretty big ellis fan...he is a really strong kid. I tell you tark I think we will be playing sacto with the same team.

Jeb,

I agree we'll have the same team against Sacramento, do think we'll see minor or major changes before we suit up against the Blazers.

I value Ray highly too, just look at the upside of Ellis as far more valuable in the long term.

If one believes KG will return to 100 % or close to it for a title run, let's keep Ray. If not, I'd move him prior to the deadline.

The medical staff will be the best evaluator of this 'trade du jour'.

Tark

jeb

Remember the Gasol to Lakers trade? For some teams its all about the money. An equal value trade is not the issue. Golden State could save a kings fortune over the next few years.
Swish

Tark

It dont seem like there are any takers for Ray...all this feels pretty thin to me. I kinda agree with nyc the more I hear the more i think we aint goin to make a move.

Inre KG's health I still feel like they should sit and rehab him until he is ready to play and can play with a large measure of health. The guy has been limping and dragging his knee. If we could get him back next year at 80% at this point I for one would take it. I just dont see any sign he is getting anything but worse.

Did anyone see the allstar deal? How was he moving out there?

Swish

Gasol is the best in the nba at his position and the main reason the lakes won it. I damn sure remember that one.

Do you think any of this rings true?

Hey Jeb,

If the thought IS that KG will not be a force again at least this season, I would be more prone to move Ray.

Sam and I agree he is the key to any title run this year. Without that as a realistic goal, the deadline deals might be more appealing.

All the best,

Tark