Trade Rumor du Jour - 2/15

Tark

What do you see in this KG scene? How does he look to your eyes?

Jeb,

Watched him in the AS game, looked to be moving fluidly, if gingerly, and with little spring.

Has looked to me to be at about 50% since returning from hiatus.

Tark

Tark

The thing that confuses me is that there were games when KG looked very much himself before he hyper extended his knee...THIS YEAR ya know? He was player of the week one week. There has been some talk that the brace is bothering him.

If he is playing one would think it is with the blessings of the Celtics medical staff so THEY must think he can get better.

As people know, I'm in it for the chemistry. Ordinarily, I'd say that losing 40% of a starting team's roster with 32 games left would be an invitation to disaster. But, here are some things to consider:

• I imagine that, if Biedrins joined the Celtics, he wouldn't replace Perk. I think Wallace would replace Perk, while Biedrins would join the bench. At least Wallace has some experience in playing with KG, Pierce and Rondo, although his +/- with Rondo/Ray/Pierce/KG is -.26 points per minute while Perk's +/- with the same four is +.24. Another factor is that having outide shooters like Ellis and Pierce around could very well encourage Sheed to stay down low on offense, where most of us are convinced he belongs.

• I have thought for a while that getting the maximum out of Wallace would be central to the chances of the Celtics this season. So far, that hasn't happened. But I happen to believe he's a bit of a frontrunner at this stage; not highly motivated to make a lot of waves if they go into a swan dive but potentially very motivated to join the fun if they gain some momentum. While I don't think he's equipped to dominate guys like Gasol, Howard or even Shaq at this juncture, he might replace in smarts what Perk offers in physicality—at least doing a better job of staying out of foul trouble. And it could be that a rejuvenated Sheed plus Biedrins could represent at least as effective a center tandem as Perk and a subdued Sheed have been doing.

• I take it that Biedrins is a lot more athletic than Perk and gets out on transition pretty well. Since I'm hoping the bench (with Daniels and Tony) will become more of an uptempo unit, he might fit right into that scenario—either with Rondo continuing to play expanded minutes including some with the bench or with a new backup PG.

• From the scouting reports I've read (I really don't know much about Biedrins myself), he'll protect the ball better than Perk did (much softer hands and only half the turnovers per 30 minutes) and is no slouch on defense. If he's playing with the bench, perhaps there's time for him and Glen Davis (or Sheldon Williams if Glen is traded) to develop some sufficient defensive chemistry to survive against other benches.

• I'm a little concerned about having two guys who need the ball in their hands (Ellis and Pierce) on the same unit with a third guy who should have the ball in his hands a large portion of the time. Chemistry-wise, resolving that logjam could be the starters' biggest challenge. But, given that Sheed's a better and more instinctive passer than Perk (who hesitates almost every time he receives the ball) and Ellis should add an energetic presence, there's at least a reasonable chance that a change like this could inject a renewed dynamic to the team.

• In the back of my mind, while I appreciate Perk's defensive presence, I'm also constantly concerned about four factors concerning Kendrick: (1) costly turnovers, (2) a propensity to get into very early foul trouble which largely neutralizes his defensive impact, (3) his tendency to slow down ball movement on offense, and (4) the possiblity that his shoulder problem will recur or even become chronic.

• I feel that it's an important priority that the Celtics now need to rehab their team chemistry as much as their physicality. That being the case, this could be as good a time as any to add two new players to the process.

• Biedrins' FT percentage this season truly makes me gag; but I'm inclined to believe it's an aberration compared with his career percentage, which is not the much below Perk's. And I would expect Biedrins to be tutored from both the free throw line and beyond the arc by Rajon Rondo.

So, as I think about it, I'm not as much against this rumored deal as my initial gut reaction was.

Sam

Sam,

Good points. I'd see Wallace starting and likely he and Biedrins playing in the area of 24 mpg, sharing the position.

Watched one game in which AB had 19 rebounds and 8 blocks, there is some potential there to be drawn out by Doc and TT.

My great concern is his FT shooting, do not believe he could be played down the stretch in contested games. Wallace on hand would be a necessity going forward.

Kind regards,

tark

Jerry,

Yes, I actually see Wallace as a key to the including of Biedrins in
the rumored deal. I agree in thinking about them sharing the center
duties roughly equally, pending certain matchups, foul problems, etc. (Coincidentally, each of them is averaging 23.7 minutes per game this season.)

Sam

I can't see Danny doing this deal. Ellis getting acclimated to our game and us to his would almost seem impossible to take place in 32 games. Ellis is not an efficient player either. Perk is the reason we can defend Howard mano y mano. Without him we are prone to having to double Howard more and thus more prone to Orlando's three point onslaughts.

Unless we believe Ray would be bought out I can't see us doing this trade because it also makes us very small in the backcourt. Matching up against Joe johnson and Vince Carter would be really tough for Ellis.

Kane3387

Have you watched Ellis much? Reason I ask is he's pretty strong...just natural strong. Plus Joe Johnson would have to chase he and Rondo around too.

If we could get Ray back we'd be pretty deadly.

And welcome aboard.

Jeb

Kane3387 wrote:I can't see Danny doing this deal. Ellis getting acclimated to our game and us to his would almost seem impossible to take place in 32 games. Ellis is not an efficient player either. Perk is the reason we can defend Howard mano y mano. Without him we are prone to having to double Howard more and thus more prone to Orlando's three point onslaughts.

Unless we believe Ray would be bought out I can't see us doing this trade because it also makes us very small in the backcourt. Matching up against Joe johnson and Vince Carter would be really tough for Ellis.

Kane3387,

Welcome to the board, I hope you enjoy it.

gyso

Kane,

Good points. Welcome to the board.

Sam

Dwight Howard says "Make that deal now!!"

I don't know the character and BB IQ of Ellis, but he is a DYNAMITE player who can create his own shot - which is truly lacking on Celtics! Given good character, this trade would be a "no brainer".

If we are honest, Perkins was never the starting Celtic center of the future. Biedrins wouldn't be either. Don't underestimate Biedrins. His hard work and humility would win a lot of fans. Until Ainge could tweak the center position, Biedrins would suffice. He is a much better passer and runs the floor much better. Has great hands, and has no fear. He is a better rebounder, in my opinion. Rondo could add a couple more assists per game because of Biedrins hands.

Go Celtics!!

SD,

That's sort of the impression I'm getting concerning Biedrins. As the Celtics are currently constituted, the starting center position is a complementary one which I believe would be filled adequately manned by a hopefully rejuvenated Sheed, with Biedrins sharing the center time off the bench.

Chemistry-wise, it's a reasonable possibility that Wallace would be better suited to being a complement to the strong-minded group of starters rather than exerting quite so much influence among the bench. And Biedrins could contribute to more uptempo bench play. The only concern I'd have is where the stabilizing bench leadership might come from; and (depending on whether they might add a PG or Rondo might play a lot with the bench) Daniels might become more important in that role.

There's no question that Perk has improved his value immensely over the years and has worked very hard in doing so. However, there will probably come a point at which his physical limitations (hand, lack of speed, absence of instinctive quickness, shoulder problems, etc.) will slow that growth process.

Whereas Rondo has already evolved into a team leader, I would always envision Perk as a support player. That's what Biedrins would be too—a different set of attributes but perhaps better suited to a future bench role than Perk would be to future prominence as a starter.

The more I think about this possible pipe dream, the more I think it could ultimately lead to a more natural, comfortable synergy among both Celtics units, although I'd hate to see Ray and Perk depart for a lot of reasons.

Sam

Jeb: Understand this, No amount of extra rehab is going to help Garnett. He's done as far as his former ability to be dominant. He is what he is until he can no longer accept his new found mediocrity and retires. MD.

MDCelticsFan wrote:Jeb: Understand this, No amount of extra rehab is going to help Garnett. He's done as far as his former ability to be dominant. He is what he is until he can no longer accept his new found mediocrity and retires. MD.

MD,

I don't believe a word of it.

I believe KG will turn the corner and approach his former self in some capacity, given enough time. It may not happen this year because he isn't being given enough time to strengthen the knee. That "walnut" sized spur didn't grow overnight and the recovery from the wear tear from it wont happen over night as well, especially during the season. The two hyperextensions didn't happen in a vacuum either, they happened in traffic under the basket, in normal play. Their occurance had nothing to do with the surgery to remove the spur but the recovery from them may be further hampered from the weakness in the joint.

I will say that the surgery should have happened a lot sooner than the end of last season, but that that belief is clouded by hindsight.

You can believe what you want and I will believe what I want.

I will chose to see how it plays out and not make dire predictions. I prefer the path of hope.

gyso

fellas
KG looked really good in the all star game,only played limited minutes,but no gimpy limping.....so I'll take it.The KG that won Player of the Week a few months ago was about 80%,but that level would be great to go war with now.I agree we need a player like Monta Ellis,he could also play the point for stretches and the speed with Rondo and TA and Quis would all of the sudden make us athletically ELITE.
However torn about Perk,he fits his role like Silas did with Cowens and Havlicek,we would lose alot of our team identity just as the old C's did when Silas left.Still dreading that trade as Silas had 2 more good years left and Perk is still so young and is getting credit as a defensive force.Now all of the sudden Don Nelson wants to play defense?Any team Perk goes to he will dramatically upgrade that teams defense.

Sam wrote:As people know, I'm in it for the chemistry. Ordinarily, I'd say that losing 40% of a starting team's roster with 32 games left would be an invitation to disaster. But, here are some things to consider:

• I imagine that, if Biedrins joined the Celtics, he wouldn't replace Perk. I think Wallace would replace Perk, while Biedrins would join the bench. At least Wallace has some experience in playing with KG, Pierce and Rondo, although his +/- with Rondo/Ray/Pierce/KG is -.26 points per minute while Perk's +/- with the same four is +.24. Another factor is that having outide shooters like Ellis and Pierce around could very well encourage Sheed to stay down low on offense, where most of us are convinced he belongs.

• I have thought for a while that getting the maximum out of Wallace would be central to the chances of the Celtics this season. So far, that hasn't happened. But I happen to believe he's a bit of a frontrunner at this stage; not highly motivated to make a lot of waves if they go into a swan dive but potentially very motivated to join the fun if they gain some momentum. While I don't think he's equipped to dominate guys like Gasol, Howard or even Shaq at this juncture, he might replace in smarts what Perk offers in physicality—at least doing a better job of staying out of foul trouble. And it could be that a rejuvenated Sheed plus Biedrins could represent at least as effective a center tandem as Perk and a subdued Sheed have been doing.

• I take it that Biedrins is a lot more athletic than Perk and gets out on transition pretty well. Since I'm hoping the bench (with Daniels and Tony) will become more of an uptempo unit, he might fit right into that scenario—either with Rondo continuing to play expanded minutes including some with the bench or with a new backup PG.

• From the scouting reports I've read (I really don't know much about Biedrins myself), he'll protect the ball better than Perk did (much softer hands and only half the turnovers per 30 minutes) and is no slouch on defense. If he's playing with the bench, perhaps there's time for him and Glen Davis (or Sheldon Williams if Glen is traded) to develop some sufficient defensive chemistry to survive against other benches.

• I'm a little concerned about having two guys who need the ball in their hands (Ellis and Pierce) on the same unit with a third guy who should have the ball in his hands a large portion of the time. Chemistry-wise, resolving that logjam could be the starters' biggest challenge. But, given that Sheed's a better and more instinctive passer than Perk (who hesitates almost every time he receives the ball) and Ellis should add an energetic presence, there's at least a reasonable chance that a change like this could inject a renewed dynamic to the team.

• In the back of my mind, while I appreciate Perk's defensive presence, I'm also constantly concerned about four factors concerning Kendrick: (1) costly turnovers, (2) a propensity to get into very early foul trouble which largely neutralizes his defensive impact, (3) his tendency to slow down ball movement on offense, and (4) the possiblity that his shoulder problem will recur or even become chronic.

• I feel that it's an important priority that the Celtics now need to rehab their team chemistry as much as their physicality. That being the case, this could be as good a time as any to add two new players to the process.

• Biedrins' FT percentage this season truly makes me gag; but I'm inclined to believe it's an aberration compared with his career percentage, which is not the much below Perk's. And I would expect Biedrins to be tutored from both the free throw line and beyond the arc by Rajon Rondo.

So, as I think about it, I'm not as much against this rumored deal as my initial gut reaction was.

Sam

sam,

Well considered and written. I would agree Biedrins' ft% this year is an aberration. NOBODY shoots 13% for a season (and he's been out with injury for most of it).

Biedrins can block shots, but he's no banger. Nor do I think he's much of an intimidator.

Biedrins is averaging almost 2 more fouls per 36 minutes than Perk. If foul trouble is an issue with you for Perk...

bob

Bob,

If I thought Biedrins would be counted upon to replace Perk in the starting lineup, I'd be more concerned about the fouls. I believe
that, in Perk's absence, Wallace would start and Biedrins would spell him.

I'd be hoping Wallace would be savvy enough to ration his fouls better than Perk as a starter. (You have to admit Wallace is very good at not contesting in hopeless situations, whereas Perk too often can't seem to resist.) You're right; this season Biedrins commits 5.5 fouls every 36 minutes. But I wouldn't expect Biedrins to play more than 30 minutes even if Wallace got into foul trouble—and usually more like 20-24.

Moreover, operating within Boston's team defensive system might very relieve some of the pressure that Biedrins has probably experienced with Golden State. That's the kicker in using stats from a stint with previous team to project how a player will do within the milieu of a new team.

Also, I'm confident that, if Rondo just took Biedrins aside for 10 minutes of free throw shooting at the end of every practice, Biedrins would be well over 70% within a couple of weeks. (And, when I'm out there for the party, I'll bring $20 so you can sell me the Golden Gate Bridge.)

Sam

Sam wrote:Bob,

If I thought Biedrins would be counted upon to replace Perk in the starting lineup, I'd be more concerned about the fouls. I believe
that, in Perk's absence, Wallace would start and Biedrins would spell him.

I'd be hoping Wallace would be savvy enough to ration his fouls better than Perk as a starter. (You have to admit Wallace is very good at not contesting in hopeless situations, whereas Perk too often can't seem to resist.) You're right; this season Biedrins commits 5.5 fouls every 36 minutes. But I wouldn't expect Biedrins to play more than 30 minutes even if Wallace got into foul trouble—and usually more like 20-24.

Moreover, operating within Boston's team defensive system might very relieve some of the pressure that Biedrins has probably experienced with Golden State. That's the kicker in using stats from a stint with previous team to project how a player will do within the milieu of a new team.

Also, I'm confident that, if Rondo just took Biedrins aside for 10 minutes of free throw shooting at the end of every practice, Biedrins would be well over 70% within a couple of weeks. (And, when I'm out there for the party, I'll bring $20 so you can sell me the Golden Gate Bridge.)

Sam

sam,

Always a tricky thing, asking a 23 year old player who has started every year for all 6 seasons so far, to become a bench player for a 35-year old who can't play 30 minutes/game consisently anymore.

bob

Bob,

The key word isn't "ask." It's "tell." Because, in the unlikely event that Biedrins should come to Boston, he wouldn't be scanning Basketball Reference to check out Wallace's stats. He'd be coming from a nothing team to a recent championship team just loaded with veterans. Deference and gratitude would be the names of the game. I wouldn't envision any trickiness whatsoever on that score.

Sam

I wish they could figure out a way to rest KG some games from now on until he is back 100% (if he ever is).

He should play/rest:

16th SAC play
18th LAL play
19th POR rest
21st DEN play
23rd NYK rest
25th CLE play
27th NJN rest

The only game of value that he would miss then would be the Portland game. The rest of the games they should do OK without hem and they do not really have strong frontlines in general.

Should spell more minutes for Glen which should be a good thing for him.

Who can we trade for Jerebko, I would like to see him in green.

Hard worker and swedish

MD, I don't question the heart of a champion. Garnett is not your run-of- the-mill athlete. I would NEVER bet against Garnett, especially when it comes to his game.

He has been unbelievably healthy his entire career. This is foreign territory for him. He may not get it back this year, but I wouldn't bet against him next year. In fact, I would be shocked if the old Garnett didn't step on the floor next year!!

For those who thought that swapping Biedrins for Perk made the deal better for us, here's some recent stories about Biedrins from the San Francisco Chronicle.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?&entry_id=57912

bobheckler wrote:For those who thought that swapping Biedrins for Perk made the deal better for us, here's some recent stories about Biedrins from the San Francisco Chronicle.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?&entry_id=57912

Perk would eat this kids lunch and feed it to him. No thanks.