Re: 2015 Playoff Thread

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:21 pm

bobheckler wrote:
tjmakz wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
tjmakz wrote:Bob,

You started off #1 about Lebron never having felt pain before.
Do you really believe your own words?
Do you think Olynyk is tougher than Lebron?
It's not like Lebron left in a wheelchair and came back 10 minutes later into the game.
Lebron did not come out of the game.

No, he did not come out of the game. He writhed around on the floor AS IF he needed to though, didn't he? That's the point I was making and which you seem to be missing. Or ignoring. He got hit in the back of his head (not in his face), squirmed around on the floor like he'd been tasered and yet never needed to leave the game (like Pierce or Reed), didn't need stitches (like Olynyk), didn't even need to be put through the NBA concussion protocols even though he had been hit in the head. He just acted as if his injury was that bad. Apparently, it wasn't after all. My, my, my...

As far as the comment about the wheelchair goes, sometimes taking a few minutes in the locker room to collect yourself can be good thing. The last time I remember a player doing that he came back out on the floor and helped lead his team to a Championship, in decisive fashion, and winning the Playoff MVP Award in the process. Scored 9 of his 22 points after he came back into that with only 5 minutes left in the 3rd period too.

bob

.

I guess you are the one allowed to dictate how long a player can lay on the ground or writhe in pain...
Is it based more on time on the ground or how many twists of the body?
Olynyk had plenty of time to gather himself (probably an hour or more) before he got into the game.
Your perception based on a significant hatred of Lebron is not reality.

You always find ways to justify Celtics players conduct or players you don't like.
Whether it's a laughable wheelchair event or a hard foul they gave out or received.
Why focus first and foremost on the bashing or mocking part?
You cannot say how much pain Lebron was or was not in.
If we don't walk in peoples shoes...

Yes, I am the one allowed to dictate how long a player can lay down and writhe in pain. It was my post, my opinion. Bingo. You got it.

My opinion is based upon a subjective correlation between the following factors:
1. How serious did the injury look to be
2. How serious did the player act as if the injury was
3. How serious was the injury actually.

In this case:

1. The injury did not look that serious since he hit the back of his head on an object that was not secured down (a camera hand-held by a cameraman who was falling backwards away from him, not one that was anchored and immovable)
2. The player acted like he had torn his ACL or separated a shoulder and not just got a bump on the back of his head.
3. The injury was not serious to actually take him out of the game even for a moment, nor was it serious enough to require stitches, nor was it serious enough to even require execution of the NBA's precautionary concussion protocol.

After considering these factors I decided, all on my own and without help from my mommy and daddy, that it was much ado about nothing despite the player's portrayal to the contrary.

bob

.

You are missing the point.
If that was Paul Pierce, you would have applauded him for staying in the game despite having multiple cuts to the back of his head.
Lebron had cuts to his head and stayed in the game.
Pierce took time off from a Finals game and what injury did he have?
Lebron just can't do anything right in your eyes.
You look to pounce at the slightest opening.
You have always treated Kobe (KOME as you have called him) in a similar way.
Yes, you can bash whoever you want, we get that.
At least this is a forum where different opinions are allowed.

by **dbrown4** Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:26 pm

I started having old CLE flashbacks last night. It looked EXACTLY the same. One guy busting his hump and the rest of the team not being able to find their collective asses with both hands. GSW clearly did their homework on the very few ways to beat LeBron.

Good news for CLE if there is any is there is an extra day off. They will need it. As for the Broadway show we experienced, I believe that was LeBron beginning to realize the wheels are about to come off. As many times as they replayed it and zoomed in on his gash, LeBron's unnecessary gyrations after a normal hard foul under the basket were what caused him to go catapulting back of head first into the camera.

Good news for GSW is they will be the first to experience what Larry Bird has been screaming about the last 30 years about Finals Game 5s. The team with the better record gets pivotal Game 5 on their floor. They are going to need it. Because if you don't believe LeBron's going to kick it into a gear never witnessed before, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. GSW only hope is that their three bombs begin to fade just after LeBron collapses from exhaustion from carrying this team to the finish line. Make no mistake, LeBron can win this Game 5 almost on his own. He's already taken this series much further than anyone expected.

Don't think this one will be a blowout by either team. LeBron is very consistent in what he says. All we have to do is put ourselves in a position to win it at the end. Game 4 is over. Best of 3. It's what the Finals are all about!

db

by **sinus007** Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:53 pm

Hi,
Last night, I guess, GSW have done what they should've been doing the previous 3 games - run Cavs into the ground.
On the other side, I don't get it - why Blatt doesn't use Perk and Harris. The former is good for 6 fouls, the latter is a young pup who can run without stops from Cleveland to Oakland. I don't see anything else that Blatt can do to help Lebron to carry his team. Enthusiasm, heart and hustle can carry you only so far.
As for Lebron's drama on the floor, I'd simulate epilepsy, heart attack, stroke, open scull, if I were in his shoes - anything that could help to win a possession, a point, a game.

AK

by **Sam** Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:42 pm

The video looks as if Lebron got fouled, reeled, ran off enough steps to make a first down in any league, crashed into the cameraman/crowd, and kept boring into the crowd while writhing and grabbing his head. He may have felt some pain. I'm glad it wasn't worse. It did nothing to shake my perception of him as a prima donna with theatrical complications.

And, no, I don't think that of all non-Celtics players, nor do I think Celtics players are exempt from histrionics. That's why I believe I single out Frank Ramsey as the originator of the NBA flop. So so any garbage about my unrelenting Celtics bias can be tossed in some deep, dark place.

Sam

by **Sloopjohnb** Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:03 pm

I guess no one can say with metaphysical certainty whether or how much Lebron's head hurt after that collision with the camera.

But those cuts on his head sure made it look like he had a pain-inducing experience.

But looks can be deceiving.

Always be on your guard.

I was watching a World Cup game with my wife when a player went down, covering his face with his hands and rolling around on the field seemingly in great pain. "Faker!!!" we sneered until we saw blood gushing out from between the fingers he was using to cover his face.

Definitely a boo-boo from his ouchie.

by **Sam** Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:26 pm

Is that a technical term, Sloop? A boo-boo from his ouchie. You must have had medical training. I like it!

Sam

by **Sloopjohnb** Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:32 pm

No medical training needed.

When I see newly broken skin on the top of a person's head after said head was brought into forceful conjunction with a TV camera, I assume that the person is experiencing pain provided that he or she has an intact nervous system.

When my 10 month old son does something similar I assume that the booboo is an indication that he feels an ouchie.

Again no medical training needed. I guess I'm just a swell dad.

by **Sam** Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:34 pm

Sloop, I don't doubt that for a second.

Sam

by **pete** Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:52 pm

All I have to say is.......go GS!!!!!

by **Sam** Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:33 pm

Ditto here, Pete. If they win, you should write a song for them.

Best to Donna.

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:45 pm

small ball is ruling both teams playing like Celtics of 72-76.

by **bobc33** Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:20 pm

Tied in the fourth period of game five. I'm rooting for Cleveland from here on out......... Can't believe I'm rooting for LeBron.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:54 pm

me too bob

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:49 am

Not, me. Go Dubs!

It seems to me LeBron's legs are going a little bit earlier every game. He's a gamer, no doubt about it, but he shot 15-34 and a lot of those misses were ones he would normally make. It just looked like he had no lift at times, couldn't even jump. It's understandable, he's averaging almost 46mpg this series and 42 minutes throughout the playoffs but there is no more central character to this sports kubuki dance than LeBron James. If he's at even 85%...He still scored 40.

40% vs 48% from the floor, 34% vs 46% from 3, 21ftas vs 34ftas, 17 assists vs 24 assists, 37 rebounds vs 43 rebounds. The only reason why this wasn't a 20+ blow out is because Cleveland did a good job of taking care of the ball (only 10 TOs vs 16 for GSW) and Iggy's 2-11 free throw shooting. How does a career 71% free throw shooter turn into that?

This was a, if not the, pivotal game. Can Cleveland win the next two, with LeBron wearing down?

bob

.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:38 am

watching both teams using their centers, then not using them, going small....Dave Cowens could still play today and dominate all these bigs in these Finals, no question about that.

by **Sam** Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:05 pm

I'm with you, Bobh. Go Warriors, and meet me at Alioto's for beers after the deciding game.

It's interesting that today's players—even the preeminent ones—seem to struggle with the often-pivotal element of toughness and athleticism known as endurance. Just yesterday, I read about how good Lebron is at slowing down games. (Which are arguably pretty deliberate to begin with.) And STILL he has endurance problems? Tsk tsk. Maybe all the needless diving into crowds, flopping, flying through air with the greatest of sleaze, and gratuitous belting are energy-sappers more than truly useful elements of "physicality."

Sam

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:04 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:watching both teams using their centers, then not using them, going small....Dave Cowens could still play today and dominate all these bigs in these Finals, no question about that.

cow,

Good point.

The only player Cowens might have a problem with is Tristan Thompson, who played center in their small-ball lineup. He'd kill them with his mid-range shot though, it would pull Thompson away from the hoop and the rebound. Have to remember, though, we're talking about comparing a HOF center to a bunch of plodders. That includes #1 draft draft pick Andrew Bogut, who is being completely outplayed by undrafted Timofey Mozgov, undersized Tristan Thompson and even #30 pick Festus Ezeli. Yet more fodder for my scorn of draft seeding.

If anything, your comment highlights the difference between then and now. All the league's mastodons (e.g. Howard, Jordan) are either done or are hardly used (e.g. Bogut and Mozgov). Of all the legit centers still standing in the playoffs: Mozgov, Perk, Brendan Haywood, Bogut, Ezeli, Speights all told they played a total minutes of 12 minutes last night. PF Tristan Thompson is playing center for them, but he's 6'9", and that made him the tallest starter for either team. Both teams started the series with Bogut and Mozgov in their starting lineups, but aren't playing any of their centers even as much as one would a solid rotation player. 9 minutes for Mozgov? 3 minutes for Ezeli? Those are minutes you see end-of-benchers play in blow outs.

As much as I love watching Celtics ram the ball down their opponents' throats, it's a different NBA now. Every team whose style of play centered around their bigs, rather than their wings (e.g. Spurs, Griz, Hawks, Nets, Rockets) were disposed of prettily easily in their series. The most competitive series, where bigs were the "big" players, were the series where both teams were so oriented, like the Clips-Rockets series. In the series where it was small ball against big ball...The Celtics were a hodgepodge, playing a heady game without really the level of talent they need, against a Cleveland team that everybody is giving well-deserved props to, that was at full strength for the first 3 games. We were neither great small ball, not even good big ball but we were fairly competitive for all 4 games against a full-strength future Finals participant for 3 1/2 games. It wasn't because we weren't big, it was because we played good small ball, sometimes even micro-ball, intelligently.

Who was the #1 offensive rebounder last night? 6'8" Harrison Barnes, with 6. 6'9" "center" Tristan Thompson had 5. Even when Mozgov played heavier minutes, like he did against us, shorter Thompson was the bigger board monster for that team.

Whose moving up the draft boards like a jet? 7'1" toothpick Kristaps Porzingis. Some think he'll get picked before Okafur. It's a different league than the one you and I loved, and we have to adapt or die.

bob

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:01 pm

Hey Bob, you must be eating this series up! I know I am. A win in Cleveland would be beautiful. They would all be crying. LB would still be telling everyone that he is the MVP no matter what anyone says and the excuses would be flying. I have enjoyed this series so much because he was convinced that the title was his.

Those young guys have put up a great fight. Over tomorrow???

Rosalie

by **Sam** Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:39 pm

Actually, when I really think about it, the only teams I recall being dominant largely because of a dominating front line were those of the the Bird Celtics. And, even although the height of Parish, McHale, Max and Walton (depending on the year) contributed mightily to the unfortunately limited run of those teams, the main difference was arguably Larry, who was a strong 6' 9" but, in many ways, had agility and moves that were associated more with smaller players.

Can too much height be a detriment in the NBA? Is it a coincidence that the two most dominant centers of the Celtics—Russ and Cowens—were only 6' 9" and 6' 8" respectively? Are all the bozos who swear Russ couldn't play center in today's NBA (and would have to be a power forward) even more stup.. (I mean ill-advised) than I had originally thought? Because they were claiming he would be too small, when perhaps he could even have been more dominant today than in the past because he wasn't overwhelmingly tall?

In addition to the other changes in the styles and strategies of the game, is the NBA actually coming full-circle to where optimal statures will wind up being closer to those of the 1960s than to those of the early 2000s? Will game introductions do away with the all bombast in favor of tasteful renditions of "He Wears Short Shorts?"

Hmmmm. This could really get interesting!

Sam

by **dbrown4** Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:53 pm

LeBron made an interesting comment last night in the post game interviews with the press. He stated boldly he was the greatest player on the planet or something to that effect.

He's right. But he never mentioned anything about his help. I'm sure they would bend over backwards to accommodate him for Tuesday's game had he said something to that degree, but I heard crickets after that comment. Those players for CLE do lay it all on the line, but if you don't throw them a bone every once in a while and pat them on the back for their efforts, don't expect a CLE victory tomorrow. GSW should be able to wrap it all up tomorrow night.

If not, this series has earned and deserves a Game 7, but I don't think GSW want to take that chance. That would be playing Russian Roulette.

db

by **dbrown4** Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:12 pm

BTW All,

If LeBron does come up short this year, does anyone think he deserves the Jerry West Award for MVP? Just curious.

db

by **Sam** Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:21 am

db,

I believe his remark was in response to how his having to assume so many roles affected his confidence.

Can anyone continue to wonder why I detest Lebron so much? Mr. Slackjaw routinely grabs for himself huge gobs of notoriety that were largely made possible by so many others over the years. He's duplicitous; he's selfish; he's manipulative. He's just a sucky person!

And please don't even think about coming back to me with even the hint of a "but" about his ability. Many, many players have contributed great ability and value to the NBA over the years without trying to convert the league into their their personal pleasure palace. There simply is no "but"...just a big, self-aggrandizing, slack-jawed butt!

Sam

by **bobheckler** Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:23 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Hey Bob, you must be eating this series up! I know I am. A win in Cleveland would be beautiful. They would all be crying. LB would still be telling everyone that he is the MVP no matter what anyone says and the excuses would be flying. I have enjoyed this series so much because he was convinced that the title was his.

Those young guys have put up a great fight. Over tomorrow???

Rosalie

Rosalie,

I'm experiencing almost the same level of stress I'd be feeling if it was the Celtics in there (not quite). Still, it will feel quite rewarding if/when the Warriors win. Boston has won a number of championships over the past decade, earning it the moniker "Title Town". Even if you're not a football fan you get to share in the overall sense of elation and feeling like you're on Cloud 9 that pervades the region when the Patriots win the Super Bowl. Winning is a rising tide that lifts all boats.

Yes, a win in Cleveland would be good. LeBron is starting to sound like Moses Malone, when he said "he could pick any four guys off the playground in his hometown of Petersburg, Virgina, and the five of them could easily beat the Celtics". Moses soon learned that just like you shouldn't shoot a grizzly bear in the ass with a BB gun, you also shouldn't piss off Larry Bird and the Celtics. Boston went on to win Game 5 by 29 points, and then they finished off the Rockets in Houston in Game 6. During the championship rally back in Boston, a fan held up a sign that said "Moses eats shit". Larry smiled when he saw it and loudly agreed...much to the crowd's delight.

Listen, I give LeBron and the Cavs a ton of credit here. They're not down just one all-league player, they're down two, but I will be exceedingly pleased if the Cav's style of play (ME-ball driven) is defeated by a basketball team. We had years in Boston watching a player-centric style of play with Rondo. He was electric to watch, and he elevated the quality of play of his fellow players on the floor, but when he was injured or fatigued or just having a bad game the whole team suffered as well. Everybody got used to standing around waiting for Rondo to make his move. Brad's style of play is more like what Tommy has always preached, "move yourself or move the ball!".

bob

.

by **tjmakz** Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:42 am

dbrown4 wrote:BTW All,

If LeBron does come up short this year, does anyone think he deserves the Jerry West Award for MVP? Just curious.

db

Lebron has been by far the best player on the court in this series.
Will he be named the MVP if Cleveland loses? I doubt it.
Does he deserve it? I believe he does.

How would Steph Curry do if he switched roles with LeBron and had to rely on JR Smith and Matthew Della I'll Dive On Ya?
I think we all know the answer to that question.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:11 am

Take any 2 players from GS and put them on Cavs and put Lebron on GS and GS with Lebron would win.

by Sponsored content