Re: 2015 Playoff Thread

[bobheckler]

Take any 2 players from GS and put them on Cavs and put Lebron on GS and GS with Lebron would win.

Ok, I'll give the Cavs James McAdoo and Brandon Rush and I'll take Mozgov and Thompson. Lol.



bob


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[RosalieTCeltics]

Lebron has never been my favorite person, I have never liked a player who brags nightly about how much better than everyone
in the world is. Larry Bird was someone who always said that his team was better, not just himself.

I will give it to LeBron he is fantastic, I just do not like being told this every day.

[bobheckler]

bob


.

[Sloopjohnb]

We certainly do hang on every word uttered by Lebron.  His
"I'm the best player in the world" apparently came in the context of whether he was confident:

"I feel confident because I'm the best player in the world," James said after the game. "It's simple."

And this in turn came in the context of whether Game five was the most pressure he'd ever felt:

“Game 5 at Golden State is not that big when it comes to going to Boston, and you lose multiple times in that arena, and the franchise that I was with at the time had never won a playoff game in Boston. Now that's pretty challenging.”

I guess that we as Celtic fans should feel a sense of pride that Lebron regards that 2012 series as when he met his greatest challenge.  Lebron made me a believer in game six with his 19-26 for 45 points and 15 rebound performance. I thought that was one of the most dominating performances by a playoff opponent staving off elimination on our floor.

Of course, Lebron's recent comments may find a place on the locker room bulliten board of the Warriors.

[RosalieTCeltics]

Having sat thru many, many playoff games during all the era's from the 60'on, I am so spoiled. I love the Celtics and cannot wait for their return to glory. I do not think we will have to wait too long.

Rosalie

[dbrown4]

I've thought more about it. For Lebron to get the Jerry West Award, it has to go 7, and of course, GSW win it. If it ends tonight, Curry gets it.

db

[dbrown4]

Anything earlier than a Game 7 win by GSW with LeBron winning the MVP would be an insult to Jerry West.

[Sam]

I've never seen a player perform better in a finals losing cause than Jerry West did in 1969.  I was happy to see him win the MVP, and the Celtics were also happy to see him win it.  Of course, the Celtics had a little something called the championship to salve any disappointment about not winning the MVP.  (To the best of my recollection, the subject of disappointment never once arose.  They were just happy for Jerry...and even happier for him when he eventually won the championship.

I love the Celtics, but I'll never gripe about Jerry West being the face of the game in terms of the NBA logo.  Somehow, it seems appropriate that a Laker, rather than a Celtic, should win the individual honors while leaving team honors to the Bostonians.

Sam

[bobheckler]

Clooneys is rockin'!!

[Sam]

Congratulations to the World Champion Golden State Warriors and to all the people of the Bay Area.

Sam

[Sam]

Congratulations to Andre Iguodala, MVP of the 2015 NBA Finals.  I'm usually blazé about MVP awards (unless they're won by a Celtic—lol).  But I've been thinking for two or three games that the series seemed to take a definitive turn when he entered the starting lineup.  To the extent that I care about the award, my criterion would be the player who had greatest impact on the series.  And I believe it was André.

Yes, Lebron and Curry may have had more impressive stats, but they also had lapses from time to time.  Moveover, Iggy was a major factor at both ends of the floor, particularly with his defense of Lebron.

Finally, for a guy who has never achieved true star status, this is a reward for working hard and long in the league.

Sam

[Matty]

Congrads the TEAM from cali...

[dbrown4]

Well put Sam.

I was hoping this would go to a Game 7 simply because it was a very entertaining series.

I'm guessing this locks LeBron in at CLE for at least another season since there's still no NBA title there. To have him bolt now would be devastating to Cleveland. More than when he left the first time.

For the time being, this enters LeBron into Wilt Chamberlain Arena status. So far, Pat Reilly is the only one to set the table for him and deliver the goods for a championship team(s). I know you can blame the CLE owner Dan Gilbert again for botching this since injuries are beyond their control, but the finger has to be pointed somewhere.

Cleveland is starting to remind me of my favorite college basketball team, NC State. 2 National Championships over 40 years but lots of disappointment, heartache and downtime in between. A lot of woulda, coulda, shouldas.

I would have liked to see this finals at full strength for both teams. Heck, we're still saying that about 2010 v. Lakers and what might have been.

The good news is, no town or city is cursed. Just unfortunate. And Cleveland is unfortunate.

In baseball, Boston was thought to be cursed for many years. Not so, just unfortunate. And they eventually started winning.

Now we can get on with the next step for Boston Celtic basketball coming up with the draft later this month. Let the CLE chips fall where they may. And Sam, there is still a remote chance LeBron might show up in Boston. Not a big one, but Danny has enough chips to at least think about it!

db

[bobc33]

Congratulations to Andre Iguodala, MVP of the 2015 NBA Finals.  I'm usually blazé about MVP awards (unless they're won by a Celtic—lol).  But I've been thinking for two or three games that the series seemed to take a definitive turn when he entered the starting lineup.  To the extent that I care about the award, my criterion would be the player who had greatest impact on the series.  And I believe it was André.

Yes, Lebron and Curry may have had more impressive stats, but they also had lapses from time to time.  Moveover, Iggy was a major factor at both ends of the floor, particularly with his defense of Lebron.

Finally, for a guy who has never achieved true star status, this is a reward for working hard and long in the league.

Sam

Wow that certainly was nice to see Iggy get the award, as Sam said his defense was key and his offensive contributions significant. Whoever voted for the award did well I was expecting they would name the easy choice Curry.

[Sam]

db,

First, Cowens deserves a lot of credit for starting this Playoff Thread and continuing to spice it up with his commentary.  Thank you, Cow.

There's no player in NBA history who is more antithetical to all I value in basketball than Lebron James.  I felt much the same about Michael Jordan too.  I believe that those two, while no sane person could deny their talent, did more than any two other players to propel the league in the direction of an entertainment, individualistic orientation at the expense of the interactive sport I think it was meant to be.

Yet, even despising all that Lebron stands for in the basketball world, I find it difficult to consider this yet another example of his playoff failures.  Yes, he happened to be on the team that failed, but—in his own way (which admittedly makes me wretch)—he tried his hardest to compensate for the absence of what was arguably the absence of two-thirds of the team's strength.

I expect that, in his egomaniacal, "I'm the best in the world" and manipulative fashion, he'd seek some way to rationalize that this series somehow proves he's the greatest.  And, in the process, he'd continue to feed my distaste for him.

As for even the remote prospect that Lebron might ever join the Celtics, I'm afraid that would almost certainly finalize the process of converting my personal basketball world from a special source of gratification into a shambles of going through the motions of allegiance.  That would definitely not be a tragedy, because (1) what truly makes Celtics basketball special for me is tightly locked inside me; (2) I could never be accused of doing less than my very best to keep the flame of that period alive; (3) my life has produced the kind of bucket list that would never leave me wanting for things of value with which to occupy my time; and (4) being part of chatting about basketball and especially the Celtics has filled our lives with friends and relationships of incalculable worth.

So, while Lebron is the exact opposite of everything I like about basketball, I can't attribute the Cavs' failure to win this series to him.  And, while I'm objective enough to admit that fact, even the far-fetched thought of his ever becoming a Celtic makes my mind implode.

Go Celtics.  And go away Lebron.  Far, far away from me and my team.

Sam

[tjmakz]

This was a good series, but it had the potential to be an all time great series if Irving and Love played.
Lebron was easily the best player on the court and is still the best player in the league.
But, Iguodala was a worthy recipient of the MVP award.
It was sobering to see that Bill Russell basically needed help to just stand there with the award.
I don't know if he was injured or it's just old age getting the better of him.
I hope Bill will be there to give out many more Finals MVP awards.

[Sam]

TJ,

My basketball world is shrinking, and any actuary would say that fact will probably accelerate over the next few years.  It's been most rewarding just knowing that so many of those guys have still been around as links to the past.  It now becomes increasingly important to rely on memories from within.  The one fact that may be toughest to deal with is the fact that, in terms of age, I'm one of them.  Well, I couldn't imagine a better group of age-peers.

Sam

[bobheckler]

Small ballers are the World Champions.  They either forced Blatt to adjust to them, rather than adjusting to Cleveland by playing Bogut and Ezeli/Lee together, or found ways to neutralize Cleveland's bigs well enough to offset their size advantage.  So, it can be done.  Ball AND player movement and hitting your shots.  On defense, swarm, swarm, swarm (and hope LeBron's legs start going on him, which they did).  70 minutes for Cleveland's center corp (Mozgov and Thompson.  Perk played a grand total of 3 minutes all series) vs only 11 for GSW (Ezeli.  Bogut was another DNP, as was Mo' Buckets Speights).  Bigger is not always better (this is the first time I've ever said that...right...).

Four deep at the bar at Clooney's last night.  They weren't there to watch the Celtics win the championship, but it was still a good feeling to be part of it and among it.  By the end of the series they were all repeating what I've been telling them for years like it was gospel, "Defense Wins Championships".

Huge credit to the Cleveland Cavaliers for playing with heart and well over their heads, being down not one but two NBA All-Leaguers.  If you could implant Steph Curry's ego into LeBron's body you'd have the perfect baller.  Personally, I think he deserved the Bill Russell Award.  I think giving it to Iggy (or, as he prefers to be called, "Dre") was a cop out.  It was like they didn't want to give it to LeBron because he lost but didn't want to hurt his feelings by giving it to his league MVP rival.  Iggy played a solid series and made some BIG plays, but how can you say he's the MVP when the guy he guarded, LeBron, set a new playoff record of 32ppg and averaged 36ppg, 13.3rpg and 8.8apg against Golden State?  If the rationalization is that it didn't go 7, well, that certainly isn't LeBron's fault.  This would have been a 4 game sweep with double-digit victory margins if he had been even human.

The referreeing was awful this whole series but especially this game, and I say that as a fan whose team he was rooting for won.  No sour grapes here.  I swear they made more bad calls than good ones last night.  Refs standing right there, in perfect position, and they're calling fouls as they see LeBron doing a fall away with no contact.  Just one after another after another.  Cleveland cannot complain about not being given a chance to win at home and getting it to 7.  The refs did everything they could without opening themselves up to an FBI probe.  They were the weak link these playoffs, throughout.

1.  Despite his Horatius at the bridge performance, LeBron was still 13-33.  No legs.  There were shots he was shooting flat-footed, he just couldn't get up.  Evidence of mortality (YES!  So it CAN be killed!).  Still, it's hard to knock the guy.  He truly was magnificent.  Just ask him and he'll tell you he is.  When LeBron rides down the streets of downtown Cleveland in the parade they'll probably throw for the team there should be a ball boy who sits behind him in the convertible occasionally whispering in his ear "Remember, thou art mortal".  Not that he'll listen...

2.  Dellava-diver disappeared in game 6.  Gritty player, he just needs to seek professional help to overcome his subconscious propensity to dive at other players' knees like he was a Japanese kamakaze pilot with an aircraft carrier in sight.  Some mixed feelings at Clooney's about him.  Most didn't like him (ergo the moniker "Dellava-Diver") but he went to school at St. Mary's in the east bay so there was some small vestige of hometown pride.  My friend's girlfriend teaches at St. Mary's and says the school was in whole hog on Delly.  He's a die-hard Warrior fan all his life and wanted Delly drawn-and-quartered but he said his girlfriend wouldn't allow it.

3.  JR Bonehead and Shumpert had good series.  They're now off to NFL training camp to try out for cornerback.  JR lowering his shoulder into Green was a flagrant 1 but Shumpert's wasn't?  Today's rumor-du-jour is that JR will opt out of his player option and test the waters.  Like I said, he's a bonehead.  Nevertheless, they did their job pretty well, playing under tremendous pressure on a severely depleted team against the best team in basketball.  Doesn't make Phil Jackson look very smart, does it?

4.  I'm happy for The Blur.  I've been a fan for a long time.  Same with David Lee.

5.  43 rebounds by just James, Mozgov and Thompson combined.  Wow.  7 offensive rebounds by Mozgov and 4 by human wrecking ball and Paul Silas 2.0 Tristan Thompson.  As someone who loves smash mouth basketball and adores offensive rebounding, Cleveland losing this game with those kind of numbers was a smash in my mouth.  Adapt or die.  Damn.  I hate stretch 4s and nano-ball but I guess I'm just going to have to get over it and learn a new trick or two at my age...

6.  In the 4th quarter, when Cleveland was making their run, GSW used spread pick-and-rolls to open up the middle.  Everybody in the corners except for the ball handler and a picker.  Break the ball free and just rip it up the gut to the front of the rim.  You either get a layup (GSW had 40 points in the paint vs Cleveland with 46 even though they had those two behemoths) or a kick out for an open 3.  That's the new NBA, the spread pick-and-roll.  Welcome to the future, like it or not.

7.  On the bright side, this was a victory for team ball over player-oriented ME-ball.  The Dubs had 28 assists on 37fgm, for a very healthy 76%.  The player-centric Cavaliers had 14 assists on 32fgm for a paltry 44%, and LeBron had 9 of those 14.  Spurs basketball vs Rondo-ball and Spurs ball won.  Even if you were rooting for LeBron you have to be happy with that trend.  

This would have been a very, very different series if Irving was playing.  Love?  Maybe not so much since it would probably still have been a small ball game and more minutes for Love would have meant fewer minutes for Thompson but Kyrie is irreplaceable.  He'd have handled the ball more, which would have given LeBron some plays off and saved his legs and then who knows how things would have gone.  Oh well.  "Ifs and buts and candy and nuts".  Injuries are part of the game.

With or without Kevin Love, Cleveland has an excellent chance of being back here next year.  

One drought is over and another continues.  Congrats to both teams. It's a good time to be living in the beautiful San Francisco bay area.


bob



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[Sam]

Come on, Bob.  There's never a bad time to live in the Bay Area, even if there is occasion to find fault there.  Being at the City Hall celebration for the Giants last year was exciting even if wasn't for a Boston team, so I can just imagine what it was like at Mooney's.

Thanks for the helpful summary for those of us who didn't watch the game.  And congrats again to the Warriors and the Bay Area.

Sam

[tjmakz]

Congratulations to Golden State and to a very loyal fan in Outside!
He adds tremendous value to this forum and I am very happy for him!

[tjmakz]

Below is an interesting quote from Warriors assistant coach Alvin Gentry.
The Warriors did play Mike D'Antoni style of basketball.
They just had a little more talent than D'Antoni's teams had.
Many here mocked D'Antoni. In reality, his style seems to be the future of the NBA...

Ethan Strauss: Victorious Gentry: “Tell Mike D’Antoni he’s vindicated! We just kicked everyone’s ass playing the way everybody complained about!”

[tjmakz]

Also, here's a quote from Steve Kerr about Mike D'Antoni's style of play:

After the game, rookie coach and champion coach Steve Kerr told ESPN, “I think Miami and San Antonio in many ways already vindicated [Mike D’Antoni’s] style. Their personnel is different, but they both space the floor.” He continued, “What Mike did was change the way the league thought, change the way coaches thought. It’s evolved since then, but what you’re getting is teams like Miami, San Antonio, teams like us that opened up the floor and have the personnel to defend like crazy, too. That’s the key.”

[Sam]

TJ,

Good call on Outside.  He's an outstanding poster.  We've never met (yet), but I'm sure he's an even more outstanding person.  I know he's been through the wringer during the past few weeks, and I think he needs to take the whole family out to eat as a reward for putting up with him as he agonized.  I'm so happy for him....and the fact that, now that the trauma is over, we'll again enjoy the pleasure of his contributions.

Sam

[RosalieTCeltics]

Outside may be a devoted fan, but since I have joined this forum there is one guy who has made it clear that he truly a Golden State fan, that is BobH.  I know the fact that he lives out there makes it easy to follow them, but even while they were rebuilding, Bob was there.  So, I say bravo to both of you. It won't be long before they are rooting for the Celtics in the playoffs. And Iggy deserved that award!!!!!!!

Rosalie


Rosalie,

I root for all the local teams as long as they are not playing my team and his year the Warriors made it easier to do so, but make no mistake about it, my blood is green.


bob


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[Sam]

Rosalie, I think it's actually a good thing for basketball—and perhaps even a small rebuke for the star system—that Iggy won that award for merit rather than for reputation.

The interesting question is what if the Celtics and the Warriors should play a finals series.  Perfectly likely this coming season, right?  (Or not.)  I believe Bob would lean toward the Celts while Outside would tie us in knots with rhetoric that could be interpreted either way.  (And I couldn't blame him a bit.)

Sam

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