Post Game 1 - Utah League vs Utah

Whole lotta bleh.


1.  Not a big fan of Smart's shot selection (still) but he was the only one who shot.  71 fgas in a 40 minute game extrapolates out to 85/48 minute game, that's not bad, and his 20 fgas blow out to 24fgas/48.  That's KoME-esque, but who else was shooting?  He was a forgettable 6-20 but he did take it to the rim whenever he could and I liked that.  On defense he was a wrecking ball except against speed.  He's a 2 on defense, not a 1.  He cannot move fast enough to stay in front of speed.  His instincts for the ball, however, and being just generally disruptive, are quite good. He truly does throw his body around. He dove over a Jazz player, on the floor, doing a forward somersault onto his back so he could earn a jump ball.

2.  Jordan Mickey got my attention.  He's efficient in his offense, he doesn't take shots that make you go "WTF!?" and he has a lively body.  He was credited with 3 blocks in 27 minutes and there was at least one time when he came over to help with a penetrator and the ball went out of bounds off the driver because he got swallowed up and Mickey didn't get credit for, what I thought was, a block.  Mickey was the 2nd highest Celtic scorer after Smart, with 16 points on 7-8.  There was a sequence when Utah wrecking ball Jack Cooley just kept going over him for rebounds.  That makes me worry a bit about how well he will do against size and weight in the NBA.  Cooley is listed as 6'9" 245# but he looks much bigger.  He's a Tristan Thompson/Tyler Hansbrough type.  Mickey, for me, gets the Celtic game ball.  He was probably the only player with a 50/50 chance or better of making the roster who lived up to his billing.

3.  Rozier didn't.  I'm not going to make a big deal about this, it's his first game of his first summer league of his career.  This isn't the NBA, not even close, but every player in this summer league is there because they are better than most of the players he played against in college. This makes Mickey's performance even more impressive. A few good plays, a few bad plays by Rozier. Some bad decisions on defense against Dante Exum.

4.  I can't wait to see the "new and improved" James Young everybody has been talking about writing about.  4-11 including 1-5 from 3 and numerous bad decisions.

5.  If Hunter had a good shooting night I'd be even more down on Young than I am already.  3 steals and some pretty decent defense for a newbie but couldn't throw the ball in Great Salt Lake from the edge of a pier.  He did a good closeout on another man's shooter at the 3pt line and stuck to his man, generally.  That's more than James Young can say.  I'm already tired of hearing how young Young is.  If he's not big enough to play with the big dogs he should have stayed on the porch in Kentucky and started on a team that supposedly/allegedly was so good they could have beaten the team he's so far down the bench he has one cheek hanging off it.

6.  CJ Fair played well for the most part.  Hard working kid.  He's not going to make the club, he's just the wrong position, but he's auditioning for everybody and he helped himself last night.

7.  Both teams took more than 1/3 of their fgas from 3.  Welcome to the New World Order.  Yuck.  Pop hates it too, but he plays it.  Brad etal have no choice either.

8.  With Colton Iverson going for the sure money in Europe we got horribly out-rebounded, 51-31 with Jack Cooley grabbing 13 including 7 offensive.  Some were against Mickey but he swarmed over 6'10" 220# Buckner too.  That's it.  That's our "bigs", 6'8" Mickey and 6'10" 220# Buckner.


First game, first summer league.  So what?  We started out looking very good and then stopped executing and stopped moving on offense and fighting through picks on defense.

Ok, so Mickey looked good.  Smart is still Smart.  Rozier didn't explode out of the box.  Hunter didn't demand the ball more.  We still need a center.

Next game is today.  A nice turnout on the Game On thread, especially for a summer league game.


bob


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Bob,

Since you refrained from taking every opportunity to dump on Young, allow me to mention that James' defense really sucked.

Yes, Smart is Smart, but only in name.  I have never liked his mental approach to the game.  Cow said on the Game-on Thread that he loved the fact that Smart plays basketball as though it were football.  I took that to be some sort of weird compliment, comparing a game of finesse with a game in which half the participants have their hands taped up for good reason.  But it's an apt description of the way Smart seems to see the game of basketball.

Marcus incessantly drove to the basket, invariably got fouled, and made his free throws...all of which served to balance (somewhat) the fact that many of his eight (count 'em eight) missed threes produced long rebounds that sent the Jazz off to the races.  That may be Smart play, but it's not smart play.  This guy is a wonderful defender (as long as he's put on people with no speed), but his basketball mentality is nowhere in the same stratosphere with a decent proponent of the "1" position.  He's certainly never going to space the floor with 2-10 outside shooting unless opponents trip over themselves snickering.

In short, Marcus is the quintessential trick-or-treat player.  Offensively, he's the exact opposite of Mickey, who never saw a bad shot he was willing to take.  Under control; extremely elusive.  His challenges will be (1) on the boards, where his ability to thrive could hinge very much on the ability of the Celtics to acquire a bruiser who can block out and (2) on defense, where I believe his lack of technique can be overcome because of his inherent agility.

I never thought Iverson was considered a potential cornerstone for this team; but his departure only exacerbates the obvious fact that a stud in the middle is absolutely required—not just for the stud's personal contributions, but for the way in which his presence will pave the way for teammates such as Mickey to improve their effectiveness.  The box score listed Mickey as the center last night.  Only because of a complete lack of alternatives.

Exum, whom I stopped paying attention to last year when he didn't seem like anything particularly special, showed how an experienced floor general can get his team functioning smoothly when the lack of same has the other team in offensive disarray throughout much of the game.  Forced shots, a lot of jumpers shot on the move (a death wish for jumpers), aimless threes, etc.  The fact that two guards (Smart and Rozier) led the Celts with 5 rebounds apiece told me all I needed to know about the potential for the young guys on this squad to make a major contribution in that department.  On one hand, the Celtics had only 10 turnovers.  On the other hand, lack of turnovers often means a team isn't trying any of the precision maneuvers that can create offensive success but can also result in a few turnovers.  Sort of like Bob Cousy physically handing the ball to wings instead of risking passes.

Finally, from the first minute when he headed for the hoop for a lefty lay-in, I liked Fair's contributions.  But I guess he's just a body in the Summer League—just good enough to be asked to participate but not good enough to be signed.

Most of all, it was great to see the green uniforms, hear the bounce of the ball, and not to have to read incessant rehashing of the past.  Onward to Game Two.

Go Celtics.

Sam

Thanks, Bob, Basically I concur, but what stands out to me is our lack of size. Smart would be a great sf if only he were three inches taller. Rozier might be 6'1' in socks'. Big boy Iverson bolted for Europe. Mickey was very effective in college, but I worry how he'll fare with the big boys. We hear how the game is evolving so a big bruising center is no longer essential, maybe not even desirable, but I don't buy it. Game after game, regular season, summer season, we seem outgunned, out muscled. I know the season couldn't be newer, more changes are coming, with the changes in League Pass, I will watching often instead of fighting the popups, but will we be watching a team that just isn't big enough? Hope not! Hawk

Good call, Hawk.  Yesterday's game was like a primer on how to guide the opponent to the basket.  That's okay if you have a low defender who's going to stonewall them; but that hasn't been the case for several seasons, and the Summer League seems like the epitome of the shortcoming (pun intended).

Sam

One thing that should be mentioned, that I overlooked, is that Smart had 8 assists and only 2 TOs.

That's an upgrade over last year.  Let's see if he can keep it up or if this was just a fluke.


bob



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His assists have never been terrible: 3.1 apg with only 1.3 turnovers in 27 mpg last season.  But a player can rack up assists without running a team well.  (I often use Allen Iverson as an example.)  Smart has pretty good vision and is reasonably adept at spotting open teammates.  But he doesn't excel in opening up opportunities for teammates.  Yesterday, he individually crashed down the lane repeatedly, which is an enviable skill—particularly on this team.  But he did so without setting the pace for the entire team.

There's no question that he has skills—and some pretty darned useful ones too.  But I'm not buying him at the "1" position—especially not on defense.

Sam

The lack of size really makes it difficult to evaluate the team.

Rozier never had a chance to run the offense. His so called speed was not apparent to me.

Smart is a horrible 3point shooter.

Young still looks like he needs to work on his ball handling skills

Hunter shoots the ball from his hip. He us not NBA ready physically.

The Mick is a bonified steal.

Dboss

bob


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bob



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bob



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Danny didn't draft Rozier, and trade for IT4, because he views Smart as primarily a PG.

He's a defensively dominant 2 guard who got to the FT line like James Harden yesterday, while adding 8 assists.

26 points on 20 shots is great. Period. If he can do that in the regular season he'd be an all star and an mvp candidate.

I've talked about how a team can get certain characteristics from different positions, not just one. We don't have a big bruising (football style) center on this summer league team, but Smart had a huge game playing just like that. He can be a 8 time all star playing just like that, while being the cornerstone of this franchise.

Russell Westbrook averaged 28 points on 22 shots last year, as an MVP candidate, with 9.8 FTA/G.
The year before he averaged 22 points on 17 shots, with 6.4 FTA/G.

Harden averaged 27 ppg on 18 FGA and 10 FTA/G.

LaMarcus Aldridge averaged 23 points on 20 FGA/G and 5 FTA/G and was the most coveted free agent this summer.

Carmelo about the same.

Klay Thompson averaged 21.7 points on 17 FGAs


Here's the NBA scoring leaderboard. You'll notice that most of them only score a few more points than FGAs, and a lot of the scoring leaders shoot very high number of FTA/G. Smart showing he can get to the FT line like a boss/football player suggests great things, if he can keep doing it.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/?ls=iref:nba:gnav#!/?sort=PTS&dir=1

Isaiah Thomas averaged 19.0ppg with Boston but shot 41.1%.  He averaged 26.4 points/36mpg.  Westbrook averaged 29.5 points/36 last year and Harden averaged 26.8 points/36 last year.

He also averaged 6.5 ftas per game, 9.0 ftas/36mpg.  For perspective, Russell Westbrook 10.2ftas/36mpg last year (but only 7.2ftas/36 career) and James Harden, who was a league leader in ftas, averaged 10.0/36 last year (and only 8.0/36 career).

My point is that we're talking about some very elite numbers here.  How he got them is somewhat relevant (e.g. did he get them out of the flow of the offense?  Were his misses so egregious they produced fast break opportunities for the other team?) but he did get them.  I'm not real happy about the long rebounds that often happen from 3pt misses, but if Marcus Smart gets to the line like Isaiah Thomas does, and hits his free throws, his fg% is mitigated by other goodnesses.


bob


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rambone wrote:Danny didn't draft Rozier, and trade for IT4, because he views Smart as primarily a PG.

He's a defensively dominant 2 guard who got to the FT line like James Harden yesterday, while adding 8 assists.

26 points on 20 shots is great. Period. If he can do that in the regular season he'd be an all star and an mvp candidate.

I've talked about how a team can get certain characteristics from different positions, not just one. We don't have a big bruising (football style) center on this summer league team, but Smart had a huge game playing just like that. He can be a 8 time all star playing just like that, while being the cornerstone of this franchise.

He shot 2 of 10 from behind the arc. That stinks.

He will not be taking 20 shots per game. Efficiency means something. Please do not mention him and Westbrook and Harden in the same sentence. Smart is NOT and will Never be on that level offensively.

What a feakin joke

Dboss

You say efficiency means something, but you seem to ignore, rather than praise, Smart's 13 FTA and 12 makes.

12 free points. Zero FGs to do so.

Seems pretty efficient to me.

26 points on 20 shots is very efficient, no matter how hard you try to pick it apart.

If Smart can get to the FT line 6-10 times a game, he can be a top 25 player. If he can improve his shot selection a bit, he can be better than that. And if he improves his shooting, he can be a top 10 player in the not-too-distant future.

But don't let me rain on the rain parade.

Hey DBoss, Smart already has a higher career 3 point shooting % than Westbrook.

In fact, Westbrook has never once had a season where he shot better from 3 than Smart did as a rookie.

Now who's the joke?

dboss wrote:

rambone wrote:Danny didn't draft Rozier, and trade for IT4, because he views Smart as primarily a PG.

He's a defensively dominant 2 guard who got to the FT line like James Harden yesterday, while adding 8 assists.

26 points on 20 shots is great. Period. If he can do that in the regular season he'd be an all star and an mvp candidate.

I've talked about how a team can get certain characteristics from different positions, not just one. We don't have a big bruising (football style) center on this summer league team, but Smart had a huge game playing just like that. He can be a 8 time all star playing just like that, while being the cornerstone of this franchise.

He shot 2 of 10 from behind the arc.  That stinks.

He will not be taking 20 shots per game.  Efficiency means something.  Please do not mention him and Westbrook and Harden in the same sentence.  Smart is NOT and will Never be on that level offensively.

What a feakin joke

Dboss

dboss,

Smart is not and never will be the shooters either of them are, you are correct. Nor will Smart be taking 20 fgas in a game with any regularity (if he is we are in deep, deep doodoo). If, however, he were to shoot a little better and get to the line a lot, then he becomes dangerous.

When I did my comparisons to Westbrook and Harden I wasn't talking about their fg%, I was talking about their ftas as part of their offense.

Westbrook's fg% is 43.2% career, 42.6% last year.
Harden's fg% is 44.4% career, 44% last year.
Neither of them are particularly efficient shooters either, they just take a ton of fgas and go to the line A LOT. Some better shot selection by Smart, going to the line a lot and his manic defense is all I ask.


bob


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We probably should not even contemplate the D league games being played.

From what I have seen Marcus is no point guard and he is no shooting guard.

He has no particular skill that is outstanding. He is average to below average shooting passing, dribbling,. Etc. He will never be an allstar guard. There are just too many other guards that are better than him. He plays hard but that is honestly the only thing that I like about him.

Dboss

Another player who never once shot as well as Smart did from 3 as a rookie: DWade.

But let's write off his whole future and upside. Nope, guys like Smart never become all stars. Elite defense as a rookie? Average 3 point shooter as a rookie? 230 lbs and great body control in the air? Good handles and decision making? Strongest guard in the league?

Nope. Nothing to get excited about there.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html