Re: Odds and Ends

by **dboss** Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:53 pm

I think it is fair to say that Cousins remains a question mark.

He is an Elite big man based on the numbers that he puts up and no one can disagree about that.

This morning on Mike and Mike they were discussing him. They said half the GM's would take him and the other half would not. I respect the opinion of those they would want him. I just do not agree with it.

I think DA is in the thumbs down column. If you recall he stated that he was not looking to add a player that was disruptive. I do not see where Cousins has done anything to tone down his behavior. To the contrary, he continues to be a problem child.

So no I do not understand the obsession with wanting Cousins on the Celtics. I think that if that want is based on the numbers all of the numbers should be considered. He puts up big numbers and the team continues to be horrible. He is not an Elite player in terms of his leadership ability so his value is greatly diminished.

Further I do not think we need a high scoring big man to compete for a championship. The process of acquiring more talent is going to include the draft which in my opinion is not a crap shoot. There is more than enough information out there to help teams evaluate. I think the crap shoot term is over used.

The Celtics can have sufficent cap space that can pay a high end free agent to come to Boston if they can convince the player to embrace that change.

And Boston will be making some trades. So here are my for and against ideas regarding Cousins:

For

He averages 27 PPG and 11 rebounds. He is only 25 years old and has time to mature. The Celtics really need a center that can score and rebound the basketball. The Celtics should have enough assets to make a trade for him and still retain a strong core. He has two years remaining on his contract so we get a chance for an extended test drive

Against

Cousins basketball skills are not transformative as his team continues to be a doormat. His attitude reflects a complete lack of respect for authority. He has had multiple suspensions but has not learn how to avoid confrontations with players and coaches. Cousins is a me first basketball player that wants to be the center of attention and that is very much the opposite of the way our Boston Celtics operate. The cost to acquire him could jeopardize what has been a well managed and cost effective rebuilding project. The Celtics would be better off going into free agency and acquiring the player or players that they need rather than leveraging key assets for a player that has yet to prove his worthiness. A person's character seldom changes and there is no reason to believe that Cousins will one day become a good citizen.

dboss

by **NYCelt** Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:19 pm

I still haven't seen any real indication that the Kings are at all inclined to deal Cousins, so I think it's a non-issue.

If he were to become available, I think the price for us would be too high to justify the risk. It would take at least our top Nets pick this year, and probably one of the other first rounders plus a top guard like Bradley or someone similar, plus a salary filler player(s).

There isn't a center who is likely to develop anywhere near Cousins ability coming out of school this year, but there are a few scoring threats we could use the higher pick or two on. We're probably better off taking the scoring wing we need with the Nets pick in the draft (Brown, Valentine, Hield, or, with Divine Intervention, Ingram) and then taking one of the three or so centers that are apt to be hanging around with whichever of the other first round picks we don't trade. No Cousins there, but maybe a possible defensive upgrade on Zeller or KO.

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:26 pm

watching the North Carolina-FGCU game just had an interesting conversation with my son.

me: who is this guy Brice Johnson, hes everywhere swatting everything?

son: Dad hes the starting center at North Carolina, ofcourse hes gonna be great!!

me: Tyler Zeller went to NC.

son: oh nevermind

by **wideclyde** Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:47 pm

DBoss,

Lots of "me first" basketball players out there. Even some probably on the Celtics if they were in the same situation in Boston that Cousins has been in in Sacremento.

I would trade the Nets pick, Bradley and a second first round pick for Cousins in a second. Bradley is a good player, but will never be the equal to Cousins in what he can bring to the Cs. The two first round picks this year are not going to help win banner #18 in the next two or three seasons even if they turn out to be very good draft picks.

Yes, Cousins is a gamble of some sorts, but so basically is any other player that a team drafts, signs or trades for until he can prove himself one way or the other with his new team. Amir Johnson is a great example of being a good guy but also not being good enough this year to have back on the team next season for 12M. Johnson was a gamble even though he IS a good guy in every respect outside of his inconsistent performance levels this year. Two seasons ago Evan Turner was also a gamble, that has turned out to be definitely worth taking.

If he (Cousins) has been a mess, I think that the situation in Sacremento has had lots to do with it. No use trying to re-list all of the issues that have been part of his stay with the Kings, but the list is pretty long beginning with losing every single season since his arrival right at the top of whatever list you might want to make above and beyond the multiple head coaches in five years, etc, etc. Cripes, his current head coach wanted to trade him before the coach even walked onto the same floor with the guy. Do you think that Cousins ever had a chance to play well for Karl or that there would not be trouble before the season ended?

I would bet on Stevens, Crowder, Thomas and company being able to reach this guy and fully unlock his talents.

by **dboss** Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:38 am

Wyde

He is a nut case. And none of the players will be able to control him.

Again I vote no.

Dboss

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:33 pm

Did anyone see the Cal-Hawaii game last night?

Projected top 3-4 pick Jaylen Brown scored 4 points on 1-6 fg's with 7 turnovers......is that the most brutal boxscore ever put up by a potential top 3 pick?

by **dboss** Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:56 pm

Cow

I mentioned before that the kid Brown should not be a target.

Dboss

by **Outside** Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:36 pm

Darnell Valentine's numbers weren't as awful -- 13 points on 5-13 shooting, 12 assists, 6 turnovers -- but he was ineffectual when Michigan State needed him the most, down the stretch in the second half. He didn't help himself with that performance.

I'm reluctant to make a big deal out of one poor game by these guys when their team gets bounced in the tournament, but it's not a good look.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:15 pm

dboss wrote:Cow

I mentioned before that the kid Brown should not be a target.

Dboss

good call. I didn't see the game, but the boxscore speaks for itself

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:18 pm

Outside wrote:Darnell Valentine's numbers weren't as awful -- 13 points on 5-13 shooting, 12 assists, 6 turnovers -- but he was ineffectual when Michigan State needed him the most, down the stretch in the second half. He didn't help himself with that performance.

I'm reluctant to make a big deal out of one poor game by these guys when their team gets bounced in the tournament, but it's not a good look.

outside did you see any of AJ Hammons games this year? I can't ubderstand why all these mocks have him in the 2nd round?

by **Outside** Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:09 am

[quote="cowens/oldschool"]

Outside wrote:outside did you see any of AJ Hammons games this year? I can't ubderstand why all these mocks have him in the 2nd round?

I've only watched him a little, but I paid particular attention to him because I know you've talked about him. The impression I have of him based on that limited viewing is that he is a big body with limited athleticism. He's a rim protector and decent rebounder, which is definitely a plus. He's good inside but doesn't show much range, and he's not very quick on his feet. The word "plodder" comes to mind. If he improved a lot, he could be a guy like LaMarcus Aldridge, but I think it's more likely that he'll be a backup big man. It's so hard to project where guys will end up.

by **kdp59** Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:40 am

Cowens,

Hammons seems to be moving up into the top of the second and even late first now.

as Oustside said, he is considered slow and not a great athlete.

he is also a senior and older, which gets downplayed in every draft now.

he would have been a mid first pick in other eras, where slower post players where more wanted IMO.

but he IS big!

Damian Jones from Vandy is closer to the current in vogue big man for the NBA, as he is quicker.

and did I read that Brice Johnson (another senior) plays center?

6-8 at best.

by **bobheckler** Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:53 am

GSW lost to San Antonio last night. GSW played without Bogut, Ezeli and Iggy. Curry had a bad night, not just because he only scored 14 points but because he was 4-18 on the night and 1-12 from 3.

And they still only lost by 8, with the Spurs lead being only 3 with 2 minutes left.

Andy Varajao played 6 minutes and the defensively-challenged Maurice Speights played 11. That's 17 minutes of "center-like" personnel. 6'8" Draymond Green jumped, and played center.

Tim Duncan played 8 minutes. He's not hurt, Pop just knew that if you want to beat GSW you have to go small and fast, or else. As a result, they were able to hold GSW to 38% shooting. They switched on Curry on picks every time. EVERY TIME. It didn't matter whose man was setting the pick and who his defender was, that defender switched onto Curry when he came off the screen. That was possible only because of the quicker team Pop fielded. Lead foots would have lost.

This game had the highest combined win percentage for the two teams playing in the history of the NBA. And there was no true center playing significant minutes for either team. The Age of the Thunder Lizards is gone and the Age of the fleet-footed mammals is here.

In other NBA news:

Brooklyn lost. Thanks Denver.
Jazz lost. That is not helpful in helping us with the Dallas pick.
Miami beat Cleveland. LeBron played, so no excuse there.

So, a very mixed bag for us.

Brooklyn is dead-even with Phoenix for the 3rd worst record in the NBA.
Utah is 1 game behind Dallas for the #8 slot in the WC. Go Jazz!
Miami is 1 game ahead of us for the 4th slot. Eat shit and die, DWade.

bob

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by **NYCelt** Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:53 am

dboss wrote:Wyde

He is a nut case. And none of the players will be able to control him.

Again I vote no.

Dboss

dboss,

Agreed.

Not only is Cousins too immature to risk despite his talent, it looks like he isn't going to be available.

Most of what I've read points to the Kings "solving" the issue by letting Karl go and hanging onto Cousins for at least another season.

Regards

by **NYCelt** Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:02 pm

Cow,

I think one of the reasons for Hammons being further down the list is the changing role of the NBA big man. PFs and even Cs are now expected to be shooters; the ever popular and overused "stretch the floor" term says it best. If they can't pull the defender out to the perimeter, it doesn't help their draft stock. Bigs shooting 3s = the newest iPhone. Bigs in the paint = a game of Pong.

Regards

by **dboss** Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:34 pm

The GS Spurs game established a formula for winning against the Warriors. But it is not an easy formula to execute.

Great game by the Spurs and great coaching by Pop.

No team is unbeatable.

Dboss

by **dboss** Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:39 pm

The stretch 5 is diminishing the value of traditional low post centers. I could see Boston going after him but everything is dependent on where the Nets pick falls.

dboss

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:15 pm

NYCelt wrote:
dboss wrote:Wyde

He is a nut case. And none of the players will be able to control him.

Again I vote no.

Dboss

dboss,

Agreed.

Not only is Cousins too immature to risk despite his talent, it looks like he isn't going to be available.

Most of what I've read points to the Kings "solving" the issue by letting Karl go and hanging onto Cousins for at least another season.

Regards

as bad as Cousins behavior may be, wasn't Chris Weber in the same situation and Wes Unseld let him go for practically nothing and Weber blossomed and led Kings to top team status for years. Talented players like/at his level are so hard to get, can't see a bunch of picks, no sure thing or lesser talented players getting a trade done for Cousins. Thunder would be the elite team in the game RIGHT now if they just paid Harden.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:31 pm

NYCelt wrote:Cow,

I think one of the reasons for Hammons being further down the list is the changing role of the NBA big man. PFs and even Cs are now expected to be shooters; the ever popular and overused "stretch the floor" term says it best. If they can't pull the defender out to the perimeter, it doesn't help their draft stock. Bigs shooting 3s = the newest iPhone. Bigs in the paint = a game of Pong.

Regards

agreed, I've been following Hammons for 3 years now, since my oldest started going to Purdue and hes thinner and in better shape than he ever was, so the kid has worked to transform his body, he was more lumbering a few years ago. He is an old school physical big and he actually has good hands and can hit the open 12-15 footer that Sully used to hit pretty well. As much as stretch bigs are in vogue, you can't have starters that defend like KO and Zeller either for obvious reasons, so hopefully there still is a place for an inside force that can defend and rebound and Hammons offensive low post game has evolved every year. GS also can win games ugly, when their shooting is off some nights because of Bogut and your guy Ezeli.

by **dboss** Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:11 pm

The Celts still must add a powerful force in the middle.

AJ could be that guy. Or the Celtics may go the trade route ir free agency.

I think the situation is very fluid.

I would like to see the top 2 or 3 Players per position that are draft prospects.

Dboss

by **bobheckler** Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:21 pm

http://hoopshype.com/2016/03/19/klay-thompson-is-the-first-player-in-history-to-make-1000-three-pointers-in-his-first-five-years-in-the-nba/

Warriors guard Klay Thompson hit 10 three-pointers Friday night as Golden State demolished the Mavericks in Dallas. It was the third time he made at least 10 threes in a game in the last 14 months. It’s becoming a common occurrence for him, but the feat has only been accomplished multiple times by other two players – Stephen Curry (of course) and JR Smith. With those 10 makes, Thompson reached 1,008 career three-pointers becoming the first player in NBA history to get to four figures in just five seasons as a pro.

Curry needed fewer games to get there, but since he missed 40 contests due to injury during his third year with the Warriors he only reached 1,000 in his sixth season.

https://infogr.am/most_three_pointers_in_first_five_nba_seasons

by **Outside** Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:27 pm

The Warriors-Spurs game had some of the best defense you'll see. Both teams played really well at that end. As BobH noted, the Spurs switched on Curry constantly so as to not lose track of him on all the screening action, and it was pretty successful.

Still, as a Warriors fan, I found plenty to be optimistic about. The Warriors shot poorly because of the excellent Spurs defense, but they also missed plenty of open shots that they'd normally make at least some of. This was Golden State's ninth game in 13 days, and they had played the night before in Dallas. Bogut, Iguodala, and Ezeli were all out, while the Spurs had their entire roster available. And despite all that, they were ahead in the fourth quarter and right there with a couple of minutes to go.

It will be interesting to see how the next two meetings go.

by **kdp59** Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:51 am

dboss wrote:The Celts still must add a powerful force in the middle.

AJ could be that guy. Or the Celtics may go the trade route ir free agency.

I think the situation is very fluid.

I would like to see the top 2 or 3 Players per position that are draft prospects.

Dboss

I doubt Hammonds will ever be a force in the middle in the NBA. Maybe a solid back up big man, but not a quality NBA starter, especially in todays game.

in fact if you want an upgrade at center this off- season, there will be no help from this draft. I don't think Poetl or Zimmerman are any better than Zeller to be honest.

so Free agents or trade is Dannys best option for a center upgrade, IMO.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:22 am

kdp59 wrote:
dboss wrote:The Celts still must add a powerful force in the middle.

AJ could be that guy. Or the Celtics may go the trade route ir free agency.

I think the situation is very fluid.

I would like to see the top 2 or 3 Players per position that are draft prospects.

Dboss

I doubt Hammonds will ever be a force in the middle in the NBA. Maybe a solid back up big man, but not a quality NBA starter, especially in todays game.

in fact if you want an upgrade at center this off- season, there will be no help from this draft. I don't think Poetl or Zimmerman are any better than Zeller to be honest.

so Free agents or trade is Dannys best option for a center upgrade, IMO.

I agree that Poetl and Zimmerman are not better than Hammons, however almost any center is an upgrade defensively over Zeller and KO is probably the worst defensive big in the league near the rim.

by **bobheckler** Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:28 pm

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241295/Chandler-Parsons-Likely-To-Undergo-Season-Ending-Knee-Surgery

Chandler Parsons Likely To Undergo Season-Ending Knee Surgery

MAR 22, 2016 10:51 AM

Chandler Parsons is likely to undergo season-ending surgery this week to address a torn meniscus in his right knee.

Parsons, who sources say will receive a second opinion before scheduling an operation, is expected to be fully recovered in time to resume his regular offseason basketball-workout routine.

This would be the second consecutive season that Parsons' season ends prematurely because of surgery on his right knee.

The injury is not nearly as severe as the cartilage damage he suffered last season that was repaired with a hybrid microfracture procedure on May 1.

bob
MY NOTE: I don't wish injuries on players (ok, occasionally I do with DWade, but he's a dirty player and deserves it) but this can't hurt our hopes that Dallas falls out of the playoffs and into the lottery. GO UTAH!!!

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