Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

[Matty]

david excellent job,

+100 points for outstanding reporting

-1 for reporting a loss...

[RosalieTCeltics]

Great job, I haven't got the patience to break it down like that! I am just so ticked off that they let them get so many three's. I hope that this is not the
part of the defense that is not functioning the way it should. Seems alot of teams are shooting three's on us.

[cowens/oldschool]

Live by the 3 die by the 3,it happens,in the long run we'll be fine, J Rich had the type of game he has once or twice a season going 6-7 from 3.....we didn't attack Nash enough,he can't handle Rondo,Rondo should have been blowing by him at begining going for 30 and setting the tone.

[beat]

David Sam Jeb Rosalie

Here is the stat for me
..........................................suns celts

Points in the Paint:

36

60

We had pretty good success pounding the ball inside when we bothered to do it. Too often settled for the outside shot. During our brief runs in the final quarter we would score on the inside then get a stop and either turn it back over or shoot to quickly from outside.

We had one play where the ball hardley ever touched the floor went from inside to the corner and around back in two complete times and we got a layup in the end.

We are big, bigger and deeper than the Suns, every possession needed to go inside.

Suns played a good game and the above only speaks for the offensive end of the floor BUTby making the suns work a tad bit harder we perhaps tire them out a bit more and thus effect their shooting or at least get to the line (draw a few more fouls-foul trouble for them) where we need to shoot the freebies a whole lot better.

Being that the trey has come rather easily in prior games we seemed ill suited when we had difficulty getting an open look.

Another issue is KG. I saw 2 of his outside misses with his feet squarely on the 3 point arc. Why so deep? 15-18 feet is plenty and last night he needed to be even closer.

Too many forced passes that were not there.

Court balance...............geesh in high school you learn to have defensive balance when you are on offense. When Rondo penitrated and missed or there was a turn over we were caught with Nash pushing the ball and the Suns getting layups. Several times I spotted all C's BELOW the foul line on offense. If we scored we got away with it but if we turned over or did not get the O rebound we were quickly toast. Led to fouls and easy hoops and also contributed to at least some open treys in transition.

Finally we needed this loss for a multitude of reasons. We are a very good team. Against a Minny we got by (just) with a c+ effort.
Against the Suns who were playing there 3rd game in 4 nights ALL ON THE ROAD we obviously did not expect what we got.

To win against a top tier team even at home will require at least an A effort. And if that team matches it.......A+.

Funny thing is, I've just spent these moments writing how poorly we played mistakes I saw ect.........yet as mentioned somewhere If Sheeds trey goes with 5-6 minutes to play, we would have been up 1. So for as poorly aqs we played we did stay in the game untill the final minute or so, on effort alone, Unfortunately we needed the execution to go with it.

No rest as we pull into the NETS home tonight.

Lets pound that ball inside and please make foul shots!!

beat

[David14]

Thanks for the great job, David. You're right, it's no fun reporting the first loss of the season. My wife has a knee replacement, and I'm very aware of the complications that can arise. I hope your Sister-in-Law progresses rapidly.

Great reporting job. Poor reporting subject. Get some sleep.

Thanks again,

Sam

Thanks Sam. Linda's first knee replacement shortly after my wife's hip replacement this year was tough enough. However, this one came with some unexpected challenges. The game was a good distraction, however I couldn't "will" Sheed's threes to drop and/or for someone to pass the ball to Eddie.

Hopefully, we will all have a better day today with better results in New Jersey.

Try to enjoy the rest of your break.

David

[David14]

Matty/Jeb,

Thanks. Reporting on a Celtics loss is like admitting to the teacher that you were the one that pulled Jane's hair!!! It's nice to be honest, but each word "hurts"!!!

I had a completely different reporting "tone" in mind before the C's "1/2" step behind approach "clouded" up the fun with the "Sun(s).

David

[cowens/oldschool]

beat
Agreed our two all world bigs KG and Sheed can post but its not their specialty,Leon was fun watching bullrushing on his post moves,I would have liked to see them go to Perk even more as his offense is much improved,he could have worked over those soft bigs more and gotten more looks,we got good looks at the 3 or they gave them to us just couldn't cash in.
cow

[David14]

Great job, I haven't got the patience to break it down like that! I am just so ticked off that they let them get so many three's. I hope that this is not the
part of the defense that is not functioning the way it should. Seems alot of teams are shooting three's on us.

Thanks Rosalie, I usually get far too nervous watching the Celtics to actually make an attempt to be objective. Mike and Tommy kept reporting that Doc and the Celtics spend a great deal of time focusing on "running the other team off the threes" at the same time no one was really challenging Richardson or Frye. Too many open shots and not enough control of Nash.

Oh well, a win tonight in New Jersey can ease the pain, somewhat!!

David

[beat]

Cow

Yeah I know KG and Sheed like to work outside but Sheed did go inside a bit, KG if anything went further away than he has been.

I to would have love to feed the beast in the paint every time down. He got the rock on the first possession and unfortunately just left it short on his little paint move. Did not get enough touches there by any standard. He could have had 10 fg's tonight easy plus a bunch of foul shots.

Perk

Kendrick Perkins

#43

C

Points: 12

Field Goal Selection Layups: 3-3 Jumpers: 0-2 Dunks: 0-0

5 attempts sucks!!!!!!!!

Suns and Nash played well and Richardson looked like a friggin ALL Star yet witha couple of calls....breaks, what have you, in the final 5 we could have stolen another one.

beat

[David14]

Beat, these three perceptions you offered said it all!!

"We had pretty good success pounding the ball inside when we bothered to do it.

"Why so deep? 15-18 feet is plenty and last night he needed to be even closer."

"If we scored we got away with it but if we turned over or did not get the rebound we were quickly toast."

I completely concur with your comment, "when we bothered". Perhaps it was physical fatigue, however there sure seemed to be a lack of effort for any type of post-up game. Rondo was no Cousy last night and Nash proved that "age" is an overused term. I would have forced Nash down deep by posting up Quis. At the same the lack of moving the ball to Eddie, that is when Doc realize that Eddie was in the House, allowed the Suns to sag in. To prevail in the end, a post up game is going to be necessary to free up the 15 to 18 jumpers.

I also was stumped as to why KG consistently moves to the 20 to 22' range instead of 15' to 18'. While he still maybe able to hit the shot, the chance of an "in and out" increases with the longer range. The only thing that occurred to me is that maybe KG was attempting to open up the post-up game for Perk and/or someone else. However, they weren't using the post up game!!! Maybe they thought Leon was still with us!! Move in KG, please!!!

You also nailed it, in my opinion, on the lack of any offensive board attempts. The defense was taking off as soon as a Celtic took the shot. I suspect Doc felt they needed that strategy to negate the Suns' speed, however I think the strategy failed. To me, the Silas and Cowens strategy where the Celtics forced the opposition to focus on blocking out on the defensive boards before running can be a better strategy for this version of the Celtics. The C's will need to establish an offensive board game if they are to slow down the running teams. We cannot win it all with a "one and retreat offense"!!

Finally, Sam really nailed a rebounding issue when he noticed that Sheed is a flat-footed rebounder. I've been watching ever since Sam posted that comment. It really does make blocking him out much easier. Sam's right, Sheed does not leave his feet on the boards. I'm hoping that the problem is tied into his need to shed (no pun intended) a few pounds, and is not really a bad habit.

Great perceptions Beat.

David

[beat]

David

Thanks

I really could not believe that as a team we could not get back and disrupt their break better. But when you commit 5 to the paint on offense at times and do not balance the floor you do not get good shots either inside or out.

Seems like we were motor that the timing belt got moved and the pistons were hitting out of sync

beat

[cowens/oldschool]

beat
Agreed exactly was time to feed the Beast cow

[David14]

Beat,

We'll said!!! The engine definitely needs a quick tune-up before playing another running team.

[RosalieTCeltics]

I do think that Perk took himself out of the game by acting so angry at the Suns and the refs. He looses his composure when things like that happen and he becomes an unimportant factor in the game.
Even though his shooting is not quite there yet, have you noticed how much Ray Allen is handling the ball, passing, rebounding, picking up loose balls. He is in the thick of things all the time. Granted Richardson was a tough match up for him last night, but there were things he did on the court that still make him such a valuable member of this team. Let's watch tonight, back to back games. This is a young, thirsty New Jersey team. Still a few players away from being a contender, but...enough of a team to cause some real problems. If the defense is on, the Celtics should win by 20 points.

[bobc33]

Post-Game Thread Celtics beat Nets 86 to 76

Please feel free to add on as I didn't see much of the game.

Celtics are now 7 and 1. Pretty darn good for 8 games in 12 or 13 nights.

Daniels was out tonight for personal reasons, anyone know more?

Rondo is leading the NBA in steals. Sometimes that stat can be misleading, though this year I think Rondo has been gambling a little bit less so the steal numbers are impressive.

Sheed has missed 8 straight 3s over the past two games. I can live with that as I love his opneing up the court, and tonight he showed some good low post moves.

Early in the 4th quarter tonight you could see Scal telling the others he would handle the ball. Quite savvy as with Rondo on the bench resting and Daniels out Scal at "point forward' is a decent option.

Ray played 41 minutes. Granted Daniels is out but I'd like to see him play less.

We've only played 8 games, but I'm thinking we may end the season with nobody averaging 20 points a game and nobody averaging 10 rebounds. Doesn't concern me as I think it points to our depth, but it is a bit odd at first blush with the HOFs and All Stars we have on the roster.

As Hooter says, whose next!

[Sam]

Bob, I can't believe you shed the pooper scooper duties long enough to do such a great job on this thread. That's really above and beyond the call of duty. Thanks so much.

I don't know whether anyone else feels this way, but I continue to think the Celts' early, devastating success with the three-ball has led them a dangerous path. It almost seems as though, whenever the three-pointer isn't propelling them forward, they get a little shell-shocked and out of sync.

And it's not just a matter of their needing to score more in the point (always one of my pet peeves). They outscored the Suns in the paint, 60-36, and yet lost by 7 points. Many of us have been exclaiming about the chemistry that seemed to have set in far sooner than anticipated. Now I'm wondering whether that apparent "chemistry" was tied largely to the success of the perimeter game, thereby masking other chemistry problems.

Yes, they've played a lot of games in relatively few days, and they need some rest. But I also think they need a more diversified attack. I watched the ESpn play-by-play last night and counted 7 consecutive minutes when the Celtics were stuck on 85 points. And I also noted heave after heave from downtown. For Pete's sake, if it isn't working, try something else. Unless trying something else just doesn't come naturally to them yet.

I'm sure Doc, hopefully aided by some productive practice time, will make some good adjustments. I was gratified to see Scal back in the lineup and, as usual, finding ways to fill "gaps" with his presence. They've got a fine record so far, so it's certainly not all doom and gloom. Just a little warning signal.

Sam

[RosalieTCeltics]

You know Sam, I am beginning to agree with you. I don't mind seeing Eddie, or Ray or even PP taking that shot when they are wide open, even Sheed for the most part, but I found it disturbing tonight to watch KG stand out there and take threes. This was happening after he was frustrated with his shooting in the first half. The have fallen in love with that shot, no doubt.

If they made them all, this probably would be a moot question. But I have to say that they are taking too many shots from the outside, compared to the inside.;

[Hoopdeedoo]

Sam,

I think your point about early 3 point success is spot on. At one point we had Sheed, Scal, House, Williams and Pierce and all we hear is Clank, Clank, Clank, ... on and on. KG seems to like his back foot on the 3 line alot lately.

Also does anyone know why Rondo was on the bench for the end of the game? At least he was stopping the advance of the Nets offense.

Oh well a win is a win. I hope your right about adjustments. I really haven't seen our team playing the way their capable.

Hoop

[cowens/oldschool]

Ugliest game I saw this year by far,if Nets had a few more players and pushed pace no way we escape with win.....was this ugliest game since the KG era?Did anyone see House miss two layups and throw the ball away on entry passes in his brief stint as the point?

[RosalieTCeltics]

Yes, what is going on with him? He is playing less and less these last few games (although he had to play last night with Daniels missing), and making more mistakes. His rhythm is way off. I do wish he had played Willams a little more last night. There was no rebounding going on at all. One time under the Celtics basket, they missed a shot and four Nets players were there to rebound. All the Celtics were standing around. You are right, this was one ugly game!

[David14]

Bob, you didn't miss much. The dogs probably were going faster than the C's in this game. Although, winning ugly sure beats the alternative. I agree with everyone about the threes. Tired legs probably affects threes more than any other shots.

With tired legs and no "Quis" to the House (where is Eddie anyhow), it was clear that the defense would have to step up in order to win the game.

This was the first game that I recorded, however it still seemed like slow motion even without commercials.

7 and 1 is not a bad start, however we are Celtics fans. We probably still wouldn't be completely happy with an 8 and 0 start either.

David

[bobc33]

David,

The dogs wore me out, it was a very difficult weekend as Shiba #1 attacked anytime Shiba #2 touched anything she owned. Finally they zonked, which is what I need. I have a pro dog trainer coming over at noon to help me make, and keep, peace in the household.

[David14]

David,

The dogs wore me out, it was a very difficult weekend as Shiba #1 attacked anytime Shiba #2 touched anything she owned. Finally they zonked, which is what I need. I have a pro dog trainer coming over at noon to help me make, and keep, peace in the household.

Bob, I can definitely relate to what you are saying. Our loving little Crystal was a "handful", or maybe a houseful is a better word, when first brought her home. Three professional trainers later she has learned to "manage us" in a less destructive way.

Keep the faith, the trainers are really good at solving the problems. Although, I was close to contacting the good old Cesar, the Dog Whisperer himself!!!

Good luck with the peace project.

David

[babyskyhook]

I don't know whether anyone else feels this way, but I continue to think the Celts' early, devastating success with the three-ball has led them a dangerous path. It almost seems as though, whenever the three-pointer isn't propelling them forward, they get a little shell-shocked and out of sync.

......

And I also noted heave after heave from downtown. For Pete's sake, if it isn't working, try something else. Unless trying something else just doesn't come naturally to them yet.

Sam

Sam-

I love the 3 as a complimentary weapon to help spread the floor, but I agree, I think it's dangerous to rely on it for a large part of a team's offense. There's a lot of truth to live by the three/ die by it idea.


if I'm not mistaken, I think the Cs hit 3s last year at one of the highest % of any team in NBA history. (I feel like I read that somewhere- please correct if I'm wrong.)

That could also be contributing to both their willingness to take 3s, since they had so much success with it last year, and some of the struggles they've had from 3 over the last few games, b/c it's hard to replicate that historically-high level of success from 3, even with shooters like Ray, Pierce and House. NOt saying they are going to turn into the 76ers or the Bobcats from 3, just that if the players' collective 3pt percentage dips a few points back towards their career averages, it will make a difference.


BTW, on the try something else front- the Lakers have similar game sometimes, which they frequently lose, where they collectively fall in love with the three and shoot 20-some attempts. and make 5.

It is so frustrating when they've got 5 players who are very good or great in the post to see them launch 3 after 3. It's like, "GUYS!!! WAKE UP!!!"

Anyway, just saying that I feel your pain on that front.

[dboss]

Commenting on both games....Suns and Nets.

Was disappointed with the overall execution down the stretch in the Suns game. In particular, Sheed needs to use better judgement when taking the three point shot. Overall the Celtics need to use their size..

The Nets should be congradulated for playing tough.

Perk and Rondo both have a serious deficiency in shooting from the line. In Rondo's case it is not about practice. He needs to reinvent how he shoots the ball. This is a glaring weakness that has not been addressed.

dboss

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