Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

by **swedeinestonia** Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:50 am

I would have set that play up for either Ray or Rondo (driving).

Pierce was not in the game and it also so "known" that is what the Celtics will do at the end. There are 3 future HOF:ers on the team, use them.

I liked the pick and roll with Garnett vs the Knicks (?).

by **Sam** Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:16 am

Brand said after the game that the 76ers were geared to stop either of two things: Pierce in iso or Garnett on a jumper. I wonder if Sheed would have been in the lineup during those last 7 seconds if he hadn't been kicked out of the game.

I don't see why most other teams take it to the hoop in that circumstance, unless they need a "3"...and yet the Celtics settle for contested jumpers. I could see the jumper on a kickout to Ray or KG or even Eddie as a second option, but why not go for the bucket or the foul as the first option? Leave the hero shots as an alternative.

Personally, I'd have Pierce (with the ball) and KG going in parallel to the basket, with Ray and Eddie outside. Make the defense commit, which is exactly what the Celtics did not do.

It's not a particularly big deal because every loss like this is presumably a learning experience. But some of this "learning" seems pretty elementary for a team of veterans.

Sam

by **dboss** Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:28 am

Sam

This was just one of those games that the Celtics could not put away.

Some keys

Pierce (4-12) Garnett (5-14 and Ray Allen 7-17) shot a combined 16-43 or 37%

The sixers bigs off the bench (Brand and Speights) scored 40 points and grabbed 18 rebounds

With Wallace out of the game only Tony Allen made an impact scoring 10 and playing very good defense.

The Celtics rebounded the ball well in the first half but were repeatedly beat in the second half. The combination of Sheldon Williams and Scalabrine caught up with the Celtics. Scals entered the game with 4:04 left in the 3rd and played until 7:18 was left in the 4th. Not having Wallace really hurt the team.

Speaking of Wallace, I know they were making some bad calls out there but his actions last night are a concern to me. He let his team down last night. He has been really playing well lately mixing both inside post moves with some outside opportunities. That is what the Celtics need from him. His rebounding was really missed. I hope his teammates talk to him about his uncontrollable behavior.

I thought that Tony Allen was a bright spot. I always thought that TA and RR were our two best on the ball defenders and last night we saw Tony playing the type of defense that we saw from him last year before the injury. Tony is a better defender than Daniels although I also like Daniels.

The Wolves are coming on Sunday so at least we will have little time to lament over this loss.

dboss

by **fiorelladad** Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:22 am

I get that the refs were biased since the Sheed ejection but we should never have let the game slip so that the refs could influence it's outcome. We let a 15 point lead go to waste with Sheed in the locker room. Couple things I witnessed:

1. Lack of energy, overconfidence in the Celtic presence and an underestimated opponent.

2. Rondo wasted a good part of the shot clock dribbling and not executing the O sets. Also the Celtics were waiting to see what Rondo did in order to move to their places.

3. Lack of execution down the stretch and no ball movement. Too many ISO's down the stretch.

4. Karma's a beach! 2 tech free throws for Sheed and we lose by 1.

5. Also Bill Kennedy should not be officiating any Celtic games after what happened last year, not in Boston and especially not in Chicago.
That is just fuel for a fire and plain dumb if you ask me.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:08 am

I have no idea why that final play was set up for Pierce. He was off all game, just didn't seem to have any umph! Andre Inguadala beat him more times, I just couldn't believe Pierce came out that flat.

There is no way they shouldn't have been driving to the hole, especially with Rondo or Ray, Ray mostly because if he got fouled those are almost guaranteed points. After the game, Doc was quite upset. He really didn't even want to talk, which might have been good.

They lost this game themselves, I put the blame completely on the players shoulders, except for a couple of questionable moves by Doc. I think he left Tony Allen in their too long, and that is when he starts making foolish mistakes. He may have sat Pierce too long, too, allowing him to lose whatever push he may have had in him. However, the officiating by Kennedy is truly suspect. It just solidfy's that idiot, Donoghy's statements about ref's and their likes and dislikes.

Sheed needs to rethink his game a little, get his temper under control and
stay away from the ref's he know's don't like him. It is hard, I know, but if they are going to win, he needs to bite the bullet a little. I wouldn't have wanted to be a fly on the wall after that game. I am sure there were discussions about his tech's tonight.

by **Sam** Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:09 am

I was actually hoping for more of Tony because he was very active and did everything quite well (except the ill-advised three he tried)—and without one turnover. He must have made half a dozen really excellent defensive plays that resulted directly or indirectly) in Celtics possessions. As Tommy Heinsohn said, they gave Tony extra
minutes because he was bringing energy to the game. I agree that he can be a trick-or-treater, but he was more the treater last night, in my opinion.

Pierce is a legitimate concern. His minutes this season are reasonable. He had had several days between games. And he looked flatter than a pancake. Maybe that's why he and KG so readily switched assignments on the last Sixers play, with Kevin taking Iggy. The Sixers smartly had a backup option (or perhaps the first option) other than Iggy, unlike the Celtics for Pierce on the last play. From my perspective, even Paul's free throw shooting is deceptive. He seems to fatten up his percentage when games are not on the line and tighten up somewhat in the clutch.

I believe he's adopted too selective an approach to his game contributions. Hold back and see what his mates can produce, and come in on the white horse if needed. Except that sometimes the horse has become too comfy in the stable and can't get back into harness upon demand. (I like that analogy better than I liked Paul's play last night.)

I believe the reason Scal was in there so long was that Perk got into foul trouble and Sheed wasn't available. Doc obviously preferred Scal over Williams, and I suspect one reason was to try to squeeze a modicum of ball movement out of the team.

I'm a big supporter of Doc, and I've defended him consistently for years against many slings and arrows. But this game was one of those during which I became particularly nostalgic for Red. I wanted the stamping around. I wanted the screams of "Give me a break Mendy" even though Mendy wasn't out there. I wanted to see the hands and the program slap the thighs in disgust. I wanted to see his head bobbing up and down animatedly in the huddles. But, most of all, I wanted to see Red, instead of Sheed, thrown out after the tantrum of all tantrums—the crowd screaming like Banshees and the refs yelling, "Gimme shelter." (Heck, the fine's still $50 isn't it?) Now wouldn't you be willing to wager that entire scenario would have been worth at least two more points?

And Florelladad, until last night I had about four hairs in my head. (I'd spend hours braiding them in corn rows.) Well, they all disappeared while Rondo was walking the ball up with all four of his teammates just standing and waiting in the forecourt. For Pete's sake, the name of the game is keeping opponents off balance. I swear I saw Celtics players asking Sixers players, "Are you comfortable, sir? If I'm in your way, just let me know. Yes, doesn't Rondo look splendid sauntering over midcourt? We're practicing for the Easter Parade, you know."

Sam

by **bobc33** Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:11 am

I missed the game last night, but it seems Sheed getting tossed in a 1 point loss obviously could have been the difference.

Do you think Doc and the Big 3 are reading him the riot act today? If we miss home court advantage by one loss because he can't control himself it would be a shame.

My bet is he is hearing it loud and clear today, behind closed doors, and we will see less of it in the future.

by **dboss** Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:24 am

bobc

I certainly hope that this incident with Sheed is the last one. I definitely believe that we win the game with him on the court.

dboss

by **Sam** Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:55 am

Bobc,

Doc was asked about that after the game. He said, in effect, that he'd certainly speak with Sheed about it but that Sheed had been doing it all his basketball life. (Quote) "He's an expert in it." I was left with the impression that Doc was more unhappy with the total performance of the team but that he would probably be more emphatic with Sheed than he was letting on in public. That seems to be Doc's style.

Sam

by **bobheckler** Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:44 pm

I didn't see the game last night, but I think at this point we can say that while the Celtics are an outstanding road team, they are at best a mediocre home team. This is profoundly disturbing since losing home games in the playoffs offsets whatever wins you have on the road and, if you have the best record in the NBA, you have more home games than road games that's bad.

Sheed's combustibility has now, officially, become a liability.

bob

by ExistentialParquet Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:55 pm

A lot of things had to go wrong for the Sixers to win, and they all did. Phantom foul calls, missed shots, etc. This was a game that they certainly should have won. Doc didn't play his starters huge minutes and I think this will be learning experience for them. You have to make the most of your opportunities when on the court. Perk played well. Rondo was pretty good. Ray was pretty good. KG missed a few shots he would typically hit. Long road, this is a bump in it.

by **sinus007** Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Hi,
I watched most of the 1st half. From the prev. posts it looks like the game was lost in the second half due to the lack of energy. The seeds of that could be observed in the 1st half. I hope it's not one of those periods the team had about a month ago.
I wonder if Doc and DA could hire a shrink to keep the key players "up and running" for the most of the season and, of course, the playoffs. Because on the "technical" level Celtics can beat any team any time. The problem is mental. And, with all due respect to other posters, the excuses like Sheed's 2 T's, Rondo's walking up the court are just that - excuses. Celtics should've won by 7-10 points yesterday. Oh well... ce la vie.
Another idea how to improve the record without overstressing big 3 is this: a few hours before a game in TD Garden put the team on the bus, drive them to Logan, put them on the plane, fly it for about an hour, go back to Boston. Everybody will be under impression that they're playing on the road. And they are playing on the road much better than home.
Very Happy

AK

by **fiorelladad** Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:33 pm

Hi sinus, I posted about Sheed's 2 Ts and Rondo's walking and I started my post saying that we relinquished a 15 point lead mainly because of lack of energy. Also I think that they're wasting games @ home because of the notion that they can use the home games to "rest" believing that the mystique and the crowd somehow will influence the other team. What they are doing is losing the respect of the other teams in the hallowed garden, a place they were fearing to tread in 07-08. This team is demolishing some of the competition in numbers and execution but in 07-08 they demolished teams before the game started because of the fear instilled and the ferociousness of the C's against ANY team in ANY venue.

That is the champion's "swagger"; word du jour, not the front or the flexing of muscles or anything else. It is the fear which other teams had when facing the C's especially in the Garden. If they lose to these scrub teams @ home the aura of fear and invincibility will be gone from the league and that is a very powerful weapon to have especially in the playoffs. Just ask Cleveland.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:50 pm

It's funny, Sam, because for the last few weeks I have been watching Pierce alot, and other than running off a few three's, his game just is not there right now. He seems to be forcing it going inside against three guys instead of kicking it back out to KG or whoever else is open. He just isn't the Pierce of the beginning of the season. Worry? I really don't know. He certainly started the season off with a bang, so it is still there for him, unless there is an injury we don't know about. He is the heart and soul of this team, no matter how wonderful KG is, we need him at his best.

by **Sam** Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:13 pm

Sinus,

A concern about Rondo walking up the court isn't really an excuse. An excuse implies something that was beyond their control. Failure to push the ball is not beyond their control. If I made it sound like an excuse, I apologize. It was intended as an out-and-out diagnosis and criticism of the system as it's sometimes executed.

Doc's approach to dealing with veterans has been relatively laissez-faire. He let the Three Amigos figure out the best way for them to work together. He feels veterans should know enough to police themselves and conduct themselves professionally. That's one reason why he's known as a "players' coach."

But that can be a double-edged sword. Even veterans can suffer lapses in focus; and then they need prodding. Whether Doc does enough of that is problematic.

Imagine what would happen if a team were trying to repeat year after year after year after year. What an impossible task it would be to keep their concentration and motivation high. A coach who could accomplish that should be accorded stature FAR above any other coach who ever lived, without question.

Sam

by **Sam** Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:09 pm

The graphic shown at the end of the game really said it all. It illustrated the energy demonstrated by the Celts, accumulating season highs in points (122), assists (34) and fast break points (25). There was a sense of inevitability even when then two teams were tied in the early going.

Doc talked, after the game, about thinking versus instinct. He said the Celtis have three players (KG and especially Paul and Rondo) who have such high basketball IQs that that they sometimes over-think the game.....trying too hard to get everyone else involved, etc. Doc stressed to Paul, yesterday, that he needed to play more on instinct; and Doc felt that Paul did just that tonight. Among other things, Pierce tied an Ainge record, going six for six from behind the arc on his way to 29 points.

Pierce and KG, in their press conference after the game, stressed how important Perk is. Tonight, Perk refused to let Big Al get the entry pass dowon low. Al got his 20 but really had to work for them. And Perk had another double-double (14/11) and even finished well on the break.

Rondo got HIS typical double-double (13 points, 15 assists) and was the usual catalyst. Ray added 20, and KG chipped in with 10 points and 8 boards. (KG seems ready to chip in with a key bucket whenever the offense flags even a bit.) Sheed added to the double-digit parade with 10.

But my game ball goes to Tony Allen. He was the energizer bunny throughout his 24-minute stint (some minutes with the starters). His 15 points, six rebounds and three assists—with ZERO turnovers for the second straight game—don't begin to tell the story. He stayed under control (even playing some point), was a blanket on defense, and very possibly was a co-conspirator in the highlight play of the YEAR. On that play, he disrupted the Wolves offense and tipped the ball in the direction of Eddie, who batted it out of bounds near center court. Eddie didn't give up on the ball, jumped after it, and flipped a no-look behind-the-back pass directly to Tony, who was alertly streaking down the sideline. Tony caught the ball in stride, drove in, and hit a thunderous dunk.

Here's a flash, folks. Playing as he did tonight, Tony contributes more to the team than Quis was doing...and that certainly is no knock on Quis, whom I really like. Tommy perfectly summarized the essence of Tony tonight. (Roughly translated): "A sixth man doesn't have to be good at everything. He has to be good at something. And Tony is a very good defensive player and gets his points off slashing."

The Wolves aren't a very good team, although this guy Love is going to be a special player—toughness, energy, a good shooting touch to accompany Al's strengths in the middle. And they were shorthanded without Ryan Gomes. Yet they never gave up, even when the Celtics led by 24; and they managed to cut the lead nearly in half as the Celts suffered one of their letdowns. But the first team of the Cs returned; KG hit one of his timely jumpers; and order was quickly restored.

This was another game they were supposed to win. And, unlike the Philly contest, they didn't allow it to degenerate into what Heinsohn calls a "grind it out" effort.

Sam

by **sinus007** Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:49 pm

Hi,
Thanks, Sam.
Judging by the the ressult (I didn't watch the game) that's how they're supposed to play.
I wonder what PP ate for breakfast yesterday: perfect at the line and 3pt. Doc and and EL should note it and use during playoffs Very Happy

AK

by **Sam** Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:54 pm

Sinus, you may have the understatement of the year in saying that's how they're suppose to play. Ideally, there would be no letdown toward the end of the game; but, heck, I guess they earned it. One thing's for sure. The fans got their money's worth, except for those who came partly to see Ryan Gomes play.

Sam

by **gyso** Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:09 pm

Sam,

One thing about the small letdown toward the end of the game, I believe it was while we had our subs in. I don't know if the Wolves had given up yet, they may have still had their starters in the game.

Once our starters came back in, the game was stabilized, the defensive pressure returned, the lead went back toward 20 points and our team showed their focus.

Then the subs went back in and garbage time once again took over. The lesson learned (and I'm sure Doc took notice) is that the backup players didn't do their jobs by keeping their foot on the pedal and on their opponent's throat.

gyso

by **Sam** Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:49 pm

gyso,

Actually, both units have suffered untimely letdowns, although the starters' letdowns seem more likely to come in the second or third quarters.

How was the Mexican dinner and "tour of lights?"

Sam

by **dboss** Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:18 pm

Sam

Thanks for the post game analysis.

Rondo gave Flynn too many easy drives to to hoop last night and I wondering if his effort was the result of knowing that they were going win big. Aside form that he played great. The passes we are seeing from him are extraordinary! He may not be the best PG in the league yet but his pasing skills with either hand are really on another level. You are not suppose to be able to make precision passes like that with your left hand.

TA is really turning alot of heads. He seems to be playing without thinking.

This is very important looking ahead. He could be the defensive stopper off the bench that we have been wating for.

The Hawks with Joe Johnson are scarier to me than both Orlando and the cavs. Joe is as tough a cover at the 2 that we will face all year. TA and daniels provide additional options to guard him.

dboss

by **Sam** Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:43 pm

Better late than never in starting this thread, mirroring the way the Celtics played this game. Playing without KG, they were wretched in the first half, trailing by a whopping 57 to 42 at the half to the Pacers (playing without Danny Granger). Troy Murphy was a thorn in the side of the Celtics throughout the game—scoring 24 on mid-range jumpers
and three-pointers. Murphy also captured 18 rebounds. The Celtics clearly missed Garnett, especially at the defensive end, where they were constantly late on rotations. On offense, Paul Pierce scored two points in the half, while Earl Watson torched Rondo for 18.

What a turnaround in the second half. The Celtics outscored the Pacers 35-20 in the third to tie the game and 26-19 in the final stanza, as Pierce scored 19 and Watson went for the bagel.

Doc had to resort to full experimentation mode in this one. He played Tony Allen about 11 minutes in the first half, as Tony and Scal injected a lot of energy (without scoring a lot of points) into the otherwise lifeless Boston team. Then he kept Tony on the bench in the second half. Although the Celts were a big man short (a little play on words there) and Sheed came up with a shoulder stinger (he returned but was favoring the shoulder), Sheldon Williams didn't play a second all night. So Doc went with seven players (including an injured Sheed) in the second half.

Whatever he did (presumably including some ranting at halftime, it worked. For the game, Pierce's 21 were complemented by Perk's 19 points and 13 rebounds, Ray's 23, Rondo's 15 points and 9 assists, and Eddie's 10. Perk was huge in the turnaround third quarter, repeatedly scoring on inside passes, after having looked like he was wearing boxing gloves in the first half.

So they got away with another lacklustre first half and were once again able to turn it on enough to win in the end. (They didn't pull away until the final two minutes.) That's a dangerous way to operate, and it will almost certainly bite them if they don't mend their ways against the good teams.

Another win, but not convincing of anything except the fact that they need a serious injection of consistency. On the positive side of the ledger, they were able to render the Pacers offensively helpless for stretches in the third quarter, so they CAN do it. And 22-5 is a good record.

Sam

by **sinus007** Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:07 pm

Sam,
Thanks, as always, for the summary.
So, in your opinion was it Celtics effort (O/D) or the Pacers went to "get a bagel" or the combination in the 3rd?

AK

by **Sam** Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:31 pm

Sinus,

Definitely Celtics effort. They were very quick to switch and cover. On several occasions, the Pacers struggled to get any kind of a desperation shot off; and, when they did, Perk blocked at least a couple. The Celtics pushed the Pacers away from the basket and followed them right out and wouldn't let them shoot from the perimeter. Who's to say whether they would have been as successful with Granger in there? On the other hand, who's to say they would have been as bad in the first half with KG in there?

Pierce said after the game that it took them an entire half to realize they didn't have KG on defense. I think there's some truth to that. What is easy to dismiss as lack of effort could have been primarily tardiness of the starters in adapting to KG's absence and Sheed's presence.

Sam

by **sinus007** Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:58 pm

Now they have 2 days to adjust to the absence of PP

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Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)