Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

[cowens/oldschool]

I wasn't sure of KG's health before all star break and he hadn't shown me anything to think he'd be getting his health back.......but miraculously hes shown flashes,some great post moves vs LA and scorching from distance last nite.Kudos to KG for putting in the diligence to get his strength and game back.That all star break looks like it has refreshed Ray also.kudos to Danny in knowing what the best move for team was.Love the look of this team with Quis and TA doing their jobs off bench.Team really showed me something that 4th vs LA and the defense is suddenly back.

[Sam]

Cow,

You're right about the Quis and Tony being a good tandem out there. Having two penetrators forces the defense to stay at home, especially if Sheed also plays on the block. What's missing is floor spacing, which is why Ray's still putting in minutes with the bench. Hopefully, Nate will be able to add enough of an outside threat so that Sheed won't get the idea he should be doing it.

I don't believe there's anything miraculous about KG's mini-resurgence. I've felt for some time that he was being ultra-careful to deal cautiously with the injury. It seemed pretty obvious to me, especially when he'd make it a point to come down on his good leg when he jumped. That's a calculated tactic.

He has been playing "within himself" ever since he returned. The all-star break represented a natural dividing point at which, by premeditated design, he'd begin to unleash himself a bit. The defensive end is where to look for the clues, because KG could play offense in his sleep. And it seems no coincidence that the Celtics defense has become increasingly stifling in the most recent three games. Did you see him, last night, jumping out, surrounding guys from behind with his arms (it looked almost obscene)? The blocked shots?

He's nowhere near full strength. But, I bet if you asked him and received a candid answer, he's right on his own schedule to regain the vast majority of his dominance by playoff time. It's all about doing it gradually and not forcing something overnight.

Sam

[cowens/oldschool]

Sam

Great points,I'm just so glad the team is rounding into shape and looking like the team we've seen last two years.It was painful to me watching KG play so passively,limping at times and was brilliant of him to not do too much and feel out his new body and knee gradually to make sure everything is working just right,before really pouncing.There were moments when the KG defensive predator Pteryldactal was out there and as you say stifling and jumping out on the perimeter.Hes obviously our most important piece,with him playing like that he can carry us and make everyone better.....great to see.

cow

[Sam]

Cow,

I'm not certain it was brilliance on KG's part. That's just my theory.

Whatever the case, it is great to see him looking a little better.

Sam

[bobheckler]

Nothing like a nice relaxing blow out to calm jittery nerves.

Second verse, same as the first:

1. KG looked really good. Really, really good. Very fluid and instinctive in all his motions. Everything has just flowed for him the last two games. Shooting, jumping, defending. Thank you God for not making the LA game a fluke.

2. Sheed looked really bad. Poor shooting stroke, slow on defensive switches and garnering caroms off the boards. Ok God, we're even now.

3. Vintage Ray Allen, the sequel. Even Ray-haters (are there any left?) gotta be lovin' this. When the game got tight, and our lead went from 20 down to 8 with about 9 minutes left in the 4th, Ray Allen just went off. This game turned into garbage time with about 5-6 minutes left because Ray Allen decided "enough was enough" and put it away over the previous 3-4 minutes. And the defense on him was good! He was just in the zone.

4. Davis taking those two charges on Rudy Fernandez were MAJOR momentum breakers. If Ray Allen was the star in the 4th quarter, his sidekick was Glen Davis. Energy, interior offense, good positional defense, hitting his free throws. He's back.

5. Pierce needs to rest. He's dinged up bad and just needs to sit. Now he has a hyperextended thumb on his shooting hand. Great. Just what we need.

6. Did you hear the color commentator (what's her name?) say that Perk was one of the top 5-10 centers in the league? Finally, somebody else besides us seeing it. Of course, Perk didn't help by shooting 3-8 from the line, but his defensive presence is always there. Nice that people are looking at the non-stat contributions Perk brings to the team.

7. WTF happened with that inbounds pass by Scal? It was obviously some kind of botched play since he didn't pass it anywhere near someone in green. It looked like he was gesturing afterwards that it wasn't his fault and that someone should have cut over here, but that is irrelevant. You don't just throw the ball lazily from underneath your own basket without being confident the person that should be receiving the pass is in the same area code. If the play drawn up breaks down, then pass it to your outlet man. For Pete's sake, he was standing right there, Scal. A rare brain-dead play by a usually smart player. He must have been channeling Kenyon Martin. Quick, find a priest to do an exorcism before it settles in and stays a while.

8. The second period highlighted what we lost with House and didn't have without Nate (who was in Boston with a stomach virus). Our ball handling was not good at all. Our offensive sets started late, because we were slow bringing it over halfcourt and the sets themselves were very choppy in execution because Portland played deny defense and we had nobody who could put the ball on the floor and make them pay for overplaying us. In fact, in the 4th quarter, when Ray went off, he was back to bringing the ball up. Hopefully, presumably Nate will fix this "little" problem.

9. We shot over 53% for the game. We were around 60% in the first half. KG came out red hot from outside and quick as you could ask for on his post moves. Rondo had 9 assists in the first half. For the game, we had 27 assists on 39 fgm (69%). Honey, sell my clothes. I've died and gone to heaven.

10. In Portland's defense their starting center and, with the addition of Camby, 3rd string center didn't play last night at all. To their discredit, they only had 7 assists all night. They got to the line 40 times, though. That's a lot of free throw attempts. In fact, the 40 fta (and hitting 75% of them) is all that kept this contest from becoming "Fellini-esque".

3-0 on our post-all star game western road trip. Let's hope we can pull off one more victory in Denver on Sunday. Maybe some of the worry warts we've accumulated over the past month or two will start to disappear.

bob

[jeb]

bobheck

Ray was finding glen on his cuts. They were interacting a lot. Glen wasnt finishing but he took those charges and ended runs.

Ray Allen was ray Allen and yall might goof on me cause it's Ray but there is great veangence and furious anger in Ray's game right now. It is giving me chills on my arms as I write this. Ray has been a stone killer and oh so in the flow and fluid.

[jeb]

bobheck

point 7 I swear to god i think scal was trying to anticipate rondo in rondo' deal where he waits to touch the ball so the clock wont start and it went tragically wrong. That's how it looked to me.

[jeb]

bobheck

point 5. PP played fierce d last night and the night before. 08 d. THey all did but the capn was all up in their jerseys

[bobheckler]

bobheck

point 5. PP played fierce d last night and the night before. 08 d. THey all did but the capn was all up in their jerseys

jeb,

Good D is great, it's the cornerstone of this team, but he's not helping on the other end and if he doesn't heal, he'll be hurting us in May.

Quis can play D too. Time, I think, for the Cap'n to think like a Cap'n and put the good of the mission first.

I'm not trying to dump on him, I'm just pointing out that he's well below 100% and not getting healthier.

bob

[bobheckler]

bobheck

Ray was finding glen on his cuts. They were interacting a lot. Glen wasnt finishing but he took those charges and ended runs.

Ray Allen was ray Allen and yall might goof on me cause it's Ray but there is great veangence and furious anger in Ray's game right now. It is giving me chills on my arms as I write this. Ray has been a stone killer and oh so in the flow and fluid.

Jeb,

Yes, I noticed that Davis was the recipient of Ray's passes. Gotta love that kind of team play.

Ray has been a stone-killer since the all-star game. I don't know if it's not being named to the squad or the extra days of rest, or he's got the playoffs in his sights and it's pumping him up. All I know is that The Energizer Bunny has been a major headache for every defender LA and Portland put on him.

Is there anything prettier than Ray Allen's shooting stroke when he's in the zone? Not much.

bob

[jeb]

bobheck

I concur but just wanted to point out that he contributed inre pp.

and Ray's game has been very pretty to watch...his stroke is in time and perfect.

[Sam]

Jeb,

I agree with you about Scal. Does anyone seriously think he intentionally threw the ball to a Blazer? If not, then he had a reason for doing what he did.

I assume people have noticed that, for years, at the end of quarters (or a tight game), Rondo likes to let the ball bounce upcourt to conserve time on the shot clock because he knows the clock doesn't start until he touches the ball. Scal was quite obviously trying to "lead" Rondo. The pass was poorly thrown; it should have gone more out in front of Rondo than toward the Blazer. Poor execution (to put it mildly). But good intent with 4 second left in the quarter.

I suspect Pierce's decision to play was predicated partly on the fact that Tony was "iffy" as a backup. It worked out that Tony did play (and played well in spots), but no one was certain of what would happen beforehand. I hope that Paul's willingness to play was also prompted by the fact that his foot may be feeling better (hence the pretty good defense that he played) and he simply decided he wasn't going to let the thumb screw him out of a chance to contribute.

I believe this team is collectively sensing the onset of some momentum; and, after the frustration they've endured, I can't blame them one bit for straining at the leash now. We can rest assured that both KG and Pierce are being very closely monitored by the medical personnel and would be held out if appropriate. Doc's not averse to using his veto power in such circumstances.

But I'm liking the enthusiasm. No J.D. Drew hangnail attitudes on this team. (A little tidbit for Red Sox fans.)

Sam

[Pumpsie Green]

Jeb,

I agree with you about Scal. Does anyone seriously think he intentionally threw the ball to a Blazer? If not, then he had a reason for doing what he did.

I assume people have noticed that, for years, at the end of quarters (or a tight game), Rondo likes to let the ball bounce upcourt to conserve time on the shot clock because he knows the clock doesn't start until he touches the ball. Scal was quite obviously trying to "lead" Rondo. The pass was poorly thrown; it should have gone more out in front of Rondo than toward the Blazer. Poor execution (to put it mildly). But good intent with 4 second left in the quarter.

I suspect Pierce's decision to play was predicated partly on the fact that Tony was "iffy" as a backup. It worked out that Tony did play (and played well in spots), but no one was certain of what would happen beforehand. I hope that Paul's willingness to play was also prompted by the fact that his foot may be feeling better (hence the pretty good defense that he played) and he simply decided he wasn't going to let the thumb screw him out of a chance to contribute.

I believe this team is collectively sensing the onset of some momentum; and, after the frustration they've endured, I can't blame them one bit for straining at the leash now. We can rest assured that both KG and Pierce are being very closely monitored by the medical personnel and would be held out if appropriate. Doc's not averse to using his veto power in such circumstances.

But I'm liking the enthusiasm. No J.D. Drew hangnail attitudes on this team. (A little tidbit for Red Sox fans.)

Sam

I think that Rivers should have called a time out in that situation and advanced the ball to midcourt and set up a play. At that point the game was not yet decided and two points seemed important. Its a lot easier to score with four seconds left if the ball is at midcourt to start the play.

[Sam]

Pumpsie, that rule pertains only to the last two minutes of a game.

Sam

[Pumpsie Green]

Pumpsie, that rule pertains only to the last two minutes of a game.

Sam

You cannot advance the ball with four seconds left in the half?
Surprising.....guess I should stick to baseball rules, eh?

[Sam]

I guess they wanted a way to make the end of the game more readily competitive. I believe the rule was instituted around 1976.

I'm glad you're getting into basketball. It's so inherently different from baseball that it presents a very different set of strategic considerations and challenges. I think of baseball as more individual and formularized: get a lead, go to the setup guy, end with the closer. So much of the excitement in baseball relates to thwarting the formula.

I think of basketball as more interactive and volatile. Much of the excitement in basketball relates to the escalating scarcity imposed by the time factor; and, because of that fact, the strategy is less formularized and can change literally minute-by-minute.

So being a fan of both sports really stretches the mind to the point where I think of it as a delaying tactic for the onset of dimentia.

Sam

[dboss]

This was definitely one of the best games that Boston has played in a while.

The pace particularly in the first half was frenzied.

And when the Blazers cut it to 9 Ray Allen continued his timely scoring. He is 19 for 29 over the past 2 games and 7 for 13 from the arc. There can be no doubt that Ray is absolutely vital to the Celtics offense. And now with long range shooter Eddie House playing for the Knicks, the dependence on Ray to carry the offense during stretches of games is more apparent.

I thought the two key elements of this game were (1) the defense and (2) the pace on offense.

The Celtics appear to have regained their mental toughness. If the team can stay healthy and if Ray can continue to knock down shots, The Celtics should again become a team that no one wants to play. The addition of Nate Robinson should help keep the pressure on when the 2nd unit rotates into the game.

Overall the energy level of the team at both ends has moved up a notch or two.

Dboss

[Sam]

It seems apparent to me that these recent developments are exactly what Danny/Doc were betting on when they focused on bringing in just one new element at the trade deadline. I think they could tell that the team was completely out of rhythm, was somewhat shellshocked as a result, and only needed some separation from the game and some time to reflect and refocus in order to recapture their collective abilities. The all-star break seems to have provided that separation.

In the midst of all the angst, what a lot of people forgot was that (1) this is a team filled with good-to-great players who, when at their best, complement each other very well; (2) those qualities are highly unlikely to evaporate between Christmas and February; and (3) neither are those qualities likely to be recaptured easily when the team is subjected to game-to-game discontinuities.

So it seems likely that Danny/Doc reasoned that (1) the team would go nowhere without recapturing their previous synergy; so (2) they might as well bank on that happening...because bringing in a bunch of new guys would simply make it more difficult to establish a new rhythm before the playoffs; and (3) it made sense to make only a move that might not simply help restore the team to its previous efficiency but could well catapult it to yet another level of sustained energy.

And, as far as the future, I think Danny showed a lot of faith in himself by not caving in to the temptation to risk mortgaging the present for the future (a reversal of the usual sequence).

Danny identifies options. He knows when to cut his losses and go down a different road. He takes only very calculated risks. And every single move he even contemplates is evaluated within the context of one single question: Will this help us win a championship?

It's the same thing Red did when the Celtics went six years without drafting a mainstay of the team but they won championships in five of those years. He kept adding "seasoned" pieces and having confidence in the ongoing synergy of his nucleus.

Yes, they lost the championship in the seventh year and had to be satisfied with 11 in 13 years. I remember avoiding talking with anyone outside of Boston about basketball because I felt guilty for personally having experienced far more than my rightful share of championships. (I still harbor some of that guilt.) So I'm perfectly sanguine (changes in the CBA notwithstanding) to see Danny following what appears to be a similar path.

Sam

[dboss]

The jury is still deliberating on the moves that DA has made. We have yet to see Nate play and despite the awakening of Ray's jumper, there is cautious optimism. If Ray goes into another shooting funk the Celtics really do not have another reliable catch and shoot player now that Eddie is no longer 'in the house'

The key however regardless of Ray's ability to shoot well depends more on their ability to stop other teams from scoring. That has been a big problem up until recently, but the team has the pieces to play great defense.

RealGM rates the Celtics move as a B- and the Knicks got a B+. The move that DA made is certainly a gamble if you choose to believe that both Giddens and Walker had more value. But they were not going to play this year so the reasoning had to be to secure a chance for the Celtics to win this year. And unless Boston was able to parlay Ray's contract for a young stud that could compliment what is already on the team, not moving him makes more sense.

But make no doubt about it. DA was actively seeking to move Ray Allen. He obviously did not find a deal that he felt was good enough. In other words I think Ray is still on the team because DA was not comfortable with the offerings from other teams.

In the end sometimes the best moves that a GM can make are the ones that he does not make.

dboss

[Brandon$$]

We all talked about chemistry and how before the all-star break it looked like our team was losing that.

How would adding a young-stud, say Kevin Martin affect the chemistry of the team?

It would at least take in my opinion 10-15 games for everyone on the team to get adjusted from starting SG Ray Allen to starting SG Kevin Martin.

^^In the end sometimes the best moves that a GM can make are the ones that he does not make.^^


And by the looks of the recent Lakers & Blazers games and Ray Allens performances in those games, not trading him is definitely looking like a good move by Danny.

[Sam]

Banks,

I think 10-15 games would have been a bare minimum. Basically, they'd be exchanging 200+ games of "togetherness" with Ray foro 10-15 games of "togetherness" with Martin. Chemistry keeps maturing over time; it's not magically achieved after a certain number of games.

Moreover, they'd have had to assimilate Martin on both ends of the floor. Neither he nor Ray has made his reputation on defense, but I'd wager that Ray is a defensive upgrade over Martin. Even if they were equal, it takes longer for a new player to blend with their defense than with their offense...and some simply never do so. Ray has blended with the defense; just look at how well they're currently performing at that end.

I'm not saying Martin never could have fit in...either on offense or defense. But, in the near future, he would have been a major unknown, especially on the defensive end. The Celtics have around 30 games to get into top playoff shape. Dealing with a major unknown would not have helped. And, IF Nate (also an unknown) frees up Quis and/or Tony to reduce Ray's minutes, so much the better.

I thought that an underrated benefit in the Nate deal was not having to give up Tony. That would have still left the bench a player short.

Sam

[Sam]

The Celtics ran into a buzzsaw named the Nuggests. Touted as a potent offensive team, Carmelo and mates lives up to their reputation. But it was their defense that really spelled the difference today. Denver raced out to an 18-point lead at the end of one and stretched it to 20. They were picking and rolling all over the place, and the Celts were a step late in responding. Only a load of missed freebies by the Nugs (7 in a row at one point) kept the Celtics within the same state. Then, in the second quarter, the bench initiated a major comeback. The help defense that had been so evident in recent games returned, and the Cs scored a bunch of points in transition (while actually missing a number of finishes that could have spelled the lead). At the half, Boston had climbed to within seven points.

The resurgence continued into the third quarter, as the Celts actually tied the game briefly. Then, the Nuggets put their defense into
overdrive. Chris Anderson, who was doubtful for this game at one point, became a major intimidator inside. The Celts started settling for outside jumpers, and the Nuggets pulled away again, leading by nine at the end of three.

Only a Celtics trap press, which forced five Nuggets turnovers in the fourth quarter, kept the game from degenerating into a rout. But a trap, while it can generate points, leaves a lot of openings—and the Nuggets capitalized on enough of those openings to win by the same margin of nine points.

Among the starters, KG, Ray and Perk were quite effective. Garnett shed his leg wrap and looked like he had escaped from jail. He was all over the court, participating in that trap press, finishing breaks with thundering dunks, going 7-13, and blocking shots (including one over a teammate's back) in 31 minutes. Ray had 25 points, going 9-14 and 2-5 from three-point land, along with five rebounds and four assists. Perk was frequently free on rolls and back door plays and finished with very efficient 7-10 shooting.

Rondo did push the ball well much of the time, although he misfired on a number of fast breaks (four turnovers for the game). He scored 15 points with 11 assists and a couple of steals. But somehow it seemed like a "quiet" double-double, as it's fair to say he was outplayed by Billups—and by a wide margin (26 points, four rebounds seven assists, a couple of three-pointers, and 10-10 free throw shooting by Chauncey).

There's no question that Paul Pierce is really struggling with that thumb. In his 31 minutes, he scored five points on 2-10 shooting from
the field and a 1-4 free throw performance. He played very good defense, with four blocks of his own. But his ballhandling was
tentative (he had three turnovers), and he looked clumsy when he tried to drive to the hoop. Paul needs some time off to let that thumb recuperate. I wouldn't at all try to pin the loss on Paul, as it was a "team effort." But it is noteworthy that the starters averaged -9 (the margin of the loss) on the +/- scale, while the bench broke even with their Nuggets counterparts. And I noted, on the game-on thread, that the timing of Paul's missed shots was more damaging in disrupting the Celtics' offensive rhythm than in simply wasting possessions.

Among the bench players, Sheed again played decent defense and went 4-7 on the block but 0-3 from the arc; and he garnered only two rebounds. (The Celts were outrebounded by four on the offensive boards and broke even on the defensive boards.) Marquis was a revelation, constantly going to the hoop and finishing 7-8 (though only 1-3 from the line). Quis also had six defensive rebounds and a couple of assists in his 18 minutes. I'd like to see him get some starts while Paul takes some time off.

Glen Davis continues to impress in the rebounding department. He had four offensive and three defensive rebounds in 17 minutes to go along with six points.

Tony was erratic, playing pretty disruptive defense (two steals) but scoring only two points in 14 minutes.

Melo scored a smooth 23 points, while J.R. Smith was 5-11 from three-point land (4-7 in keeping the Celtics at bay in the fourth quarter). But, in this one, the real story was that their defense rose to the occasion better than ours did.

The Celtics never gave up in this one, and the energy they displayed in the four quarter was admirable. So was their second-quarter comeback. But they too often allowed the Nuggets to take them out of their offense, and you can't allow the opponent to score 37 and 32 in the first and fourth quarters and hope to have a legitimate chance to win. They had a good road trip, and this was one of the bumps in the road I've indicated that should be expected in what will be a long road back to contending status.

Sam

[bobheckler]

We lost, but I don't feel too bad about it (or, at least, no worse than any other loss). Our amnesia as to the meaning of defense in the first quarter was a killer. Sure, we tied it up in the 4th, but you run out of gas getting there. Add to that this is #4 of 4 and it's a mile up where the air is thin and it would have really, really been something if we won this one.

1. KG looked really good for the 4th game in a row. Hallelujah!! He's back!

2. Sheed. Damn. I'm trying to find something positive to say about him, but I can't, so I'll just move on before I say something I'll regret later.

3. Ray Allen, once again, brings us back from the abyss. Anybody who thought he was done, was wrong. Dead wrong. He's phenomenal.

4. With the Lakers and the Nuggets, it's starting to look like we have trouble with tall frontcourts.

5. Our perimeter defense sucked. We didn't keep anybody out. You can't win like that. All you can do is pick up fouls.

6. Paul Pierce is a liability on offense right now. His thumb, his leg, whatever. His defense, though, was outstanding for the most part. He had 4 blocks today. I'm torn between saying "sit down, Paul, you're hurt" and "we'll take the defense if that's all you can offer now". Quis is back and he's playing well, so it's not like we have no choice but to ride Pierce a little more.

7. Four blocks for the Birdman too. I love that guy. Knows his role. Knows what he does well and stays within himself. Had the biggest +/- tonight. Him and Billups are the smartest players on that team. Kenyon Martin drags the average down to where they have to be burped and have their chins wiped. Anderson needs to pick a hairstyle and stick with it for a season though.

8. Once again, we give up 40 fta. That's what happens when you don't stop penetrators and we're NOT. I didn't get to see the Sacto game, but we didn't stop Portland's penetrators either. The only thing that stopped the Lakers is the absence of Bryant and the pathetic state of their point guard corp. Still, we had a 53% fg%, took 7 more shots than the Nuggets and only had 13 turnovers. With numbers like those we should have won.

9. Sam mentioned the Nuggets missed FTs. Well, we shot 54% from the line. When there's only 1.3% difference between your fg% and your ft% you're either doing extremely well from the field or extremely poorly from the line. You get one guess which one we were today. Pierce, Rondo and Quis were 3-9 combined. In fact, the only Celtic who shot better than 50% from the line tonight was The Energizer Bunny, Ray Allen. He was 5-5. Considering we took a total of 24 fta, that means there were 19 fta taken with a combined % of less than 50%. That's so bad we passed bad heading south 3 embarrassments ago. What makes it sooo shocking, is that Perk didn't take even one of them.

Well, the road trip's over, we were 3-1 on it and we did it without House or Nate. That's why I don't feel so bad about losing this one.

bob

[jeb]

bobheck

point 4. I would submit that everybody struggles with a front line that good. Denver is big and deep up front. Hell so are the lakes.

[112288]

I liked what I saw and we were missing Nate who could have added some additional points. All in all it was a good road trip post all-star and I think we will begin to jell as play-offs near. hope we can snag a player or two off the waiver wire. A big and a shhoting guard/forward would do.

Nice Recap Sam!

112288

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