Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

[cowens/oldschool]

I just hope Pierces thumb is just strained/sprained and not worse,I've never seen him so off his game on offense,everytime he shot it was a wounded duck.Lets give him alot of therapy and a few games off.We could have swept this road trip if Pierce was just 75% of his self.A glimmer I got out of this was how well we could defend Melo in the halfcourt game and we know whose primary resposibility that was.On these kind of nights Pierce should just play his fierce D and move the ball,don't even shoot.....hopefully this funk won't last too long for Pierce.

[Pumpsie Green]

Pierce should sit against the Knicks. He needs to get healthy or this team is not going to be around long in the playoffs.

[dbrown4]

I would have liked for the C's to sweep, but I'm with Bob on this one. Everyone else was thinking we would go 0-4. We went 3-1. More rhythm plus the insertion of Nate is going to have to be the difference teller. I would imagine once Nate starts he is going to "upset" the bench a little and its rhythm. Bench seems to be on high alert, playing well for the most part and ready for nate to show up and get going.

This turns the spotlight back to the starters and finding the weak link, which looks like its Paul and his injury and potential iso ball.

Great news over the weekend is Lakers lost, Denver lost, Cleveland really lost (so much for Danny F's "seamless transition"), Orlando lost, ATL lost and we went 3-1. Where's the Tylenol?!! I was really hoping we would win yesterday as to max gain on CLE but this was a great start, given all the naysayers out there. Be carefully listening to the press (announcers, etc) and how they change their talk on the Celtics going forward. There is alot to overcome here since they are all hellbent sold on LeBron vs. Kobe or LeBron vs. Melo final. "Lakers v. Celtics" has been moved to the back burner, they are both looking like "past champions". Celtics are still "struggling" or "trying to find themselves", etc. But the eyebrows are going up with a 3-1 road trip and CLE evidently no longer "invincible".

Remember, at the beginning of the season, we were "clearly, the best team in the league"? (Not a whole lot has changed in my humble but accurate opinion) I love watching the press pick the wrong horse and have to eat it. Also watch CLE quotes, analysis if this losing streak continues or they start to fall apart, which is inevitable.

Expect the press to shift to CLE v. DEN after 'Melo showed up LeBron @ home. That had to leave a mark!!

[bigpygme]

yeah, Melo did very well against LBJ. the head-on match-up was great fun, and revealing - Melo's really, actually playing D. two years ago, a year ago, not so much. glad to see the improvement, as they're the other team i follow.

i was at the game, rooting for our C's (along with what seemed like a quarter of the crowd!), and was amazed at Denver's seeming to score at will in the 1st quarter. equally disheartening was our failure to produce offensively during that span. too bad the comeback drained them, as Doc remarked to a reporter after the game.

He also said, "“I like this team when it is whole. We haven’t had good rhythm over the last 20 games. You could see it happening before the [post-Xmas] drop came." Then he said, "Hey, if you’ve jumped off the bandwagon, stay off."

but despite a disappointing loss to sit through, i'm keeping my place on the bandwagon. Quis was very effective and efficient, and Ray seems to have left his slump behind. Perk also coontributed well, i thought. KG seemingly is back, i'm thinking maybe 90%. seems to me next thing up for Garnett is to clean up his errant passes in traffic - they're juuust off the mark, and they're costing us. that's what i thought i saw ...

but i'm among people much more astute at this analysis than i am, so it's time for me to go back to reading more. i just want to keep my seat on the bandwagon. Go C's ...

Michael in Denver

[bobheckler]

yeah, Melo did very well against LBJ. the head-on match-up was great fun, and revealing - Melo's really, actually playing D. two years ago, a year ago, not so much. glad to see the improvement, as they're the other team i follow.

i was at the game, rooting for our C's (along with what seemed like a quarter of the crowd!), and was amazed at Denver's seeming to score at will in the 1st quarter. equally disheartening was our failure to produce offensively during that span. too bad the comeback drained them, as Doc remarked to a reporter after the game.

He also said, "“I like this team when it is whole. We haven’t had good rhythm over the last 20 games. You could see it happening before the [post-Xmas] drop came." Then he said, "Hey, if you’ve jumped off the bandwagon, stay off."

but despite a disappointing loss to sit through, i'm keeping my place on the bandwagon. Quis was very effective and efficient, and Ray seems to have left his slump behind. Perk also coontributed well, i thought. KG seemingly is back, i'm thinking maybe 90%. seems to me next thing up for Garnett is to clean up his errant passes in traffic - they're juuust off the mark, and they're costing us. that's what i thought i saw ...

but i'm among people much more astute at this analysis than i am, so it's time for me to go back to reading more. i just want to keep my seat on the bandwagon. Go C's ...

Michael in Denver

Michael,

I LOVED watching Kobe vs Melo in the playoffs last year. Specifically, their defense on each other under the basket on rebounds. VERY mano-a-mano. They were working soooo hard under the boards. I loved it!!

bob

[bigpygme]

yeah, Melo did very well against LBJ. the head-on match-up was great fun, and revealing - Melo's really, actually playing D. two years ago, a year ago, not so much. glad to see the improvement, as they're the other team i follow.

i was at the game, rooting for our C's (along with what seemed like a quarter of the crowd!), and was amazed at Denver's seeming to score at will in the 1st quarter. equally disheartening was our failure to produce offensively during that span. too bad the comeback drained them, as Doc remarked to a reporter after the game.

He also said, "“I like this team when it is whole. We haven’t had good rhythm over the last 20 games. You could see it happening before the [post-Xmas] drop came." Then he said, "Hey, if you’ve jumped off the bandwagon, stay off."

but despite a disappointing loss to sit through, i'm keeping my place on the bandwagon. Quis was very effective and efficient, and Ray seems to have left his slump behind. Perk also coontributed well, i thought. KG seemingly is back, i'm thinking maybe 90%. seems to me next thing up for Garnett is to clean up his errant passes in traffic - they're juuust off the mark, and they're costing us. that's what i thought i saw ...

but i'm among people much more astute at this analysis than i am, so it's time for me to go back to reading more. i just want to keep my seat on the bandwagon. Go C's ...

Michael in Denver

Michael,

I LOVED watching Kobe vs Melo in the playoffs last year. Specifically, their defense on each other under the basket on rebounds. VERY mano-a-mano. They were working soooo hard under the boards. I loved it!!

bob

always glad when you chime in, Bob, and me too - it was a terrific battle last year!! but for a couple of sloppy inbounds plays that Ariza turned into crucial steals and points, the Lakers might not have gotten past Denver last year. and then there's always this year !!! we'll see - go Nuggets !

meanwhile my heart was entirely with the Celtics during their game against the Nugs Sunday. i was surprised to find no mixed loyalties coming into play - just wanted Boston to pull it out. Doc said that after the run to catch up, the team just didn't have much gas left - a comment that frankly surprised me, hearing it from the coach. ahhh well. i can only hope Our Guys continue to rebound from injuries and mesh, jell, build the chemistry and bring the defense !!

[dbrown4]

I think the players are relieved. Management has sent a huge message saying this is basically the team that is going to win the championship. Everybody knew we were short a b/u point.

Imagine being an employee going into work at your job and over a short couple of day time span you didn't know whether you were getting the ax or...hey wait a mintue, that's the way it is everyday!! Anyway, it would affect your productivity. These guys are no different.

Hence Ray's performance and the team's for that matter on a road trip everyone was expecting them to go 0-4.

Not overlooking NYK tonight but after that comes CLE. There will be no excuses for losing that one. Big regular season game. The Celtics can further insert the dagger o' inevitable doubt and demise into the unwilling hearts of the Cavaliers and CLE fans everywhere. This game can clearly send a message. They won't be tired. No excuses. Time to put the answers on the test. Nate will be there. This will be a good read.

[Sam]

An all-too-close game was largely decided by a superb Ray Allen block near the end, and the Celtics escaped with a four-point win to usher in the Nate Robinson era.

The offense wasn't spectacular; but it was pretty good:

• Tthe Celtics did score 110.

• With Quis repeatedly going to the bucket in Paul Pierce's absence, the starters had 27 assists to go along with their 32 field goals.

• They shot 53% in the first half and 52% in the second half.

• Maybe a couple of Rondo's 16 assists came when he was playing with the bench, but the starters' ratio had to be well over 75% as KG also had had six assists. (KG has really picked up his playmaking lately; and the starters' offense, with or without Paul, is clicking
accordingly.).

• They had 60 points in the paint (to 40 for the Knicks) and 14 fast break points (to the Knicks' four). I hear so much about being at a
disadvantage against more athletic teams; but would bet the farm that the Celtics are regularly outscoring opponents in transition.

• All five starters scored at least 12 points, led by Ray's 24 (he's back folks, although he was only 1-5 from three point land). Rondo had
15 to accompany his 16 assists.

Perk seemed out of it during the first half in particular. Literally. The Knicks succeeded in drawing him well away from the defensive
interior, so he was the king of the matadors while grabbing only one rebound during the half to go along with only four points. But he
settled down somewhat in the second half, with 10 points and four rebounds, two blocks and a steal.

Despite playing matador defense much of the evening, the starters averaged a +7 rating on the +/- scale. although the bench averaged only -4. There's little question that the bench is stabilized by Quis, who played with the starters tonight. And, of course, Nate Robinson was the PG for most of his 16 minutes. And, without more than a sniff of the Celtics' system, he did all right. He shot only 2 for 7 and took a couple of distance jumpers too early in the shot clock. But he demonstrated a facility for hitting the open man, putting defensive
pressure on the ball, and pushing the ball upcourt. After the game, Doc said Nate played "too fast, " which I take to mean that he was too eager to rush things rather than adapting to the flow of the game. I'll take over-eagerness any day; in his interviews, he seems
determined to learn and fit in.

While it seemed that the Celtics had been issued red flags to wave at the Knicks as they penetrated or were leaving Knicks open for threes from the corner, the good news about the defense was that after a 59% first half, the Knicks's shooting percentage dipped to 46% in the second half. In most games lately, the Celtics' defense has tightened considerably as the game has progessed.

The rebounding was about equal in this one. The bench actually recorded slightly more rebounds per minute of playing time than the
starters did, with Sheed (5) and Tony Allen (4) leading the way. While Glen Davis contributed his usual strong inside game (nine points and two assists in 17 minutes), he was credited with only one offensive and one defensive rebound.

If I have calculated correctly, the Celtics should have the luxury of holding a legitimate full practice tomorrow. The long process of
integrating Nate into the defensive scheme will commence, and maybe they'll even insert a play or two for him. As I learned in high
school, chemistry isn't learned quickly. (In my case, not ever.) Doc says he doesn't know Nate well enough to know how he's be used.

They seemed to stoop to the occasion tonight. Let's see if they can rise to the occasion on Thursday.

Sam

[steve3344]

Love it. The Nate Robinson era. lol.

[Sam]

It could well be one of the shorter eras. As long as they win the last game of his tenure, I don't care.

Sam

[cowens/oldschool]

It could well be one of the shorter eras. As long as they win the last game of his tenure, I don't care.

Sam

LMAO thats even funnier

[dbrown4]

I don't know if the C's are ever going to shake the "playing to the level of the competition" deal this season. I think that's just going to be the way it is. We would all like a little more breathing room in games at the end. That will be Doc's job to raise that bar so we can all breathe at the end of these games.

Sam, the matador defense/waving a red flag comment got me laughing. That created such an accurate visual of what was happening last night. I think Doc said "Let's try this, guys. Let's play absolutely no defense, until I say turn it on, against one of the worst teams in the league and see if we can keep pace on offense." That's what it looked like.

At least we didn't go into a tailspin like some of the other teams that traded. Nate definitely looked a little lost at times out there, hiding inthe corner, but he was ready to go and didn't fan or cause a lot of confusion, etc.

I don't think Doc played him long enough. There was that one stretch in the first half where Doc should have left the bench out there longer, they were holding their own. Starters come back in and blow the DD lead. Second half pretty uneventful. BTW, how are the Big 3 going to get less minutes unless Doc extends the time the bench players are out there? This would have been a good opportunity to do that at low risk or cost.

[gyso]

We had trouble with the Knicks in the 14th game of the season. It was a 1:00PM game at NY. We came out strong and got a DD lead. We proceded to turn the lead to a 5 point deficit at the 3 quarter mark. The dry spell started at the end of the 2nd quarter and extended well into the 3rd.

We turned on our defense in the 4th quarter and forced an overtime. We won the game at the buzzer of the first OT when Pierce passed off to an open KG, who took the jumper from near the right elbow.

That game description sounds familiar. Except for the OT and KG heroic shot, it could have come from the same script.

Going towards the playoffs, there will be many ups and downs. This game provided a small step back with the lack of defense, but it did provide one plus. It went into the win column.

gyso

[mrkleen09]

The Knicks have a TON of offensive firepower....and they were hitting all their shots for big stretches of the game.

Harrington and David Lee were unconscious - and Wilson Chandler and Rodriquez wont have games like that against us for 2 years.

In the end, a win is a win. Next.

[bigpygme]

the "Nate era" and its references were funny!
why not the "Quis era", while we're going there. he certainly had the right moves around the basket last night !

wasn't it a little weird to watch Eddie hoisting them for the other team last night? (and a relief they didn't start dropping in ... that would've spelled Big Trouble at that point in the game).

... is a win, is a win, is a win ... sorry, Pumpsie ...

Michael

[bobheckler]

The good news is that if the Celtics are consistently playing down to their competition, then their play should improve as we go further into the playoffs.

Nobody stopped David Lee from doing anything he wanted to do. Once again proving that basketball is not a game of running fast or jumping high. It's a game of teamwork, hard work and position.

Our perimeter defense has been bad all year, including during this 4-1 run we're having post-all star game. That has got to change. You can't keep allowing the ball to get in the paint and then try to stop them.

Not bad first game for Nate. No balloons dropping, but not bad. Tony Allen looks a little lost out there.

[Sam]

There will be foresliding and backsliding as the Celtics careen through their personal Woodstock during the remainder of the season. (A little concession to the older folks among us)

The more continuity this team has, both in games and in practices, the more the balance should tip toward foresliding rather than backsliding. Personally, I do not define "continuity" as losing one of the Three Amigos and (once again) having to raid the bench to replace him at the very instant when the starters had been making synergistic inroads and the bench is welcoming a new player.

Others may choose to seize upon the results of this discontinuity to make dire predictions about the totality of the season. They would be ill-advised in this practice. Perhaps they have the need to appear short-sighted as basketball fans; or maybe they just don't know any better.

Notice carefully that the Glimmers Thread has never once predicted a championship or even season-long success for the Celtics based on positive occurrences. That would be premature and, frankly, ridiculous; and it would would reveal an extremely superficial understanding of the game of basketball.

The same holds true for globally predicting long-term gloom and doom based on momentary problems or backsliding. Doing so displays an assumption of ongoing inability of the team to deal with issues. That kind of totally premature assumption usually has its roots in arrogance or naivete or pomposity or an agenda of cynicism (or possibly some of each).

Fortunately, the prevailing mood of the board seems to be:

• to recognize problems but, rather than simply moaning about them, to interpret them as challenges and to focus on how to address them;

• to identify positive portents and to reflect on how to nurture and capitalize on them.

For the many posters who practice this very constructive dual approach, I congratulate you, commend you on your knowledge of basketball, and thank you for contributing to the convivial and positive energy of this forum.

Sam

[beat]

Sam

Watching this team and trying to figure out things is like the teacher trying to grade the kid at midterm who's misses a lot of school but when he's in school he does well. So rather than give him an F she gives him the chance to make up work and gives him an INCOMPLETE for the mid term grade. She buys him some time with the hope he takes advantage of it and does his work. Doc might be doing the same with the C's.

Really as with that kid the final exam is a couple months off. Doc needs to make sure we study. And should we add a new part or two same goes for them too.

Noticed last eve he had Nate in with the four starters for several minutes in the 4th till he fianally brought Quis back in. Nate was a bit lost but never stopped hustling.

beat

[Sam]

Good analogy, Beat.

Yes, I think Doc is really scrambling to find out as much as he can as quickly as he can about Nate. Usually Doc's pretty up-front about things, and he admits he has no clue about how to use Nate. I've been wondering about that very subject ever since the trade, which is why I started a thread about it.

My first impression was that Nate will be most useful in situations requiring or benefiting from infusions of energy. I believe he and Rondo could be very disruptive in trap-pressing opponents when appropriate. He seems to have an instinct for pushing the ball. I don't believe either he or his teammates are mutually familiar enough to run plays for him, but I suspect he'll add another penetrator to the the bench—possibly doubling as a penetrator and a floor spacer simultaneously (although I'll have to see a lot better three-point success before I'm comfortable with the spacing part).

One of the major decisions I believe Doc will have to make is which of three options to run the ball through: Sheed, Marquis or Nate. At present, I'd like to see Sheed and Nate develop a nice little inside-out game, allowing Tony and Quis to penetrate.

My main concern about trading Eddie was spacing; and it's still a concern. They've got so many penetrators on the bench that it's an open invitation for Sheed to become the outside floor-spacer, and I'm just not comfortable with that. It's one factor I'm going to be watching closely.

I continue to think that Doc may be forced to do more mixing-and-matching between the first and second "units" in order to infuse both the starters and the bench with the basic offensive ingredients: low-post presence, spacing, slashing ability, ball distribution, etc. So Doc's substitution patterns could well have a major bearing on how the rest of the season goes. I just hope the health of the team stabilizes so that he'll have an opportunity to identify the best combinations and stick with them.

Sam

[jeb]

Sam

Inre spacing. Nate has to make outside shots enough to be respected or Ray Allen is going to be overplayed. I think Nate will be able to do just that. I also expect a lot of mid range shots due to his stunning quickness and from what I've seen pretty damn good court vision. It should allow some really nice inside out action.

[jeb]

Sam

My choice (newly formed) is going to be to stick to and contribute to the positive threads.

I am not getting much but heartburn out of all the sky is falling threads so I am just going to try and stay on the sunny side.

Everyone has a right to his or her opinion but it is I feel a bad choice to focus only on what you dont have.

This is a great forum and a great place. I love that MG and Sky feel tall enough in their own skin to come over here and contribute. I really enjoy having mg on the game thread. And Sky is knowledgeable and honest with himself and his team's situation.

To be honest I dont know if I would be grown up enough to go to a Lakers forum and do what those guys do. But hell maybe we all play a part in making this place cordial.

Nice job mods.

Jeb

[pete]

Jeb,

I second the motion to be positive.


Pete

[bigpygme]

when i get to worryin, i come to Sam's boards and it bounces me back. i appreciate that, and i try to stay on the positive side myself. when i see problems i try to name them, but i still believe there's a solution somewhere in the mix of players we've got, because we DO have some really good basketball players on the current roster.

yes, i still believe ... Jeb, there's a song in there somewhere, isn't there?

Michael

[swedeinestonia]

I really like what Quis brings in a "jack of all trades" fashion.

If he gets close to the basket he just finds ways to get it in there. Pierce has kinda had problems with that lately.

Nate was a package of energy as expected. If he keeps the energy and hustle up combined with learning the plays and schemes he should be great.

[jeb]

byg pyg

Talk to Pete!

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