Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

[pete]

Jeb,

I'm on it!

Pete

[bigpygme]

I really like what Quis brings in a "jack of all trades" fashion.

If he gets close to the basket he just finds ways to get it in there. Pierce has kinda had problems with that lately.

Nate was a package of energy as expected. If he keeps the energy and hustle up combined with learning the plays and schemes he should be great.

Pierce has had that problem for weeks, and the lack of foul calls has been appalling to me. BB Davis has gotten stuffed even more - a LOT - but recently he's taken to head-butting himself a little room, and so has been able to create space and get that inside shot off more successfully. don't know who coached him on that, but it's been working and without a foul being called on him ...

and thanks, Pete and Jeb. i already know the song I Still Believe (The Call), so i don't really need help with that ... i was just throwing in a musical reference for fun ! and i do still believe !

Michael

[swedeinestonia]

I really like what Quis brings in a "jack of all trades" fashion.

If he gets close to the basket he just finds ways to get it in there. Pierce has kinda had problems with that lately.

Nate was a package of energy as expected. If he keeps the energy and hustle up combined with learning the plays and schemes he should be great.

Pierce has had that problem for weeks, and the lack of foul calls has been appalling to me. BB Davis has gotten stuffed even more - a LOT - but recently he's taken to head-butting himself a little room, and so has been able to create space and get that inside shot off more successfully. don't know who coached him on that, but it's been working and without a foul being called on him ...

and thanks, Pete and Jeb. i already know the song I Still Believe (The Call), so i don't really need help with that ... i was just throwing in a musical reference for fun ! and i do still believe !

Michael

I agree about Pierce and the fouls.. just last year he got a lot more calls with him. Dunno if he is doing something different or what but he does not really get any breaks when going to the basket.

Do not like blaming the officials for anything though, I TRY to treat them as something you just gotta live with no matter what they deal you. Just easier to watch the games then.

[Sam]

Jeb,

Somehow, it has always seemed counterproductive to "wallow in the mire." But it doesn't mean one has to recognize only the positives in life.

In my work, we have frequently employed a technique invented by by a guy named George Prince. It's called "Synectics," which is (I think) Greek for something like "the fitting together of seemingly disconnected things." It has a variety of uses, from brainstorming to problem-solving to simply making people more creative.

It is utilized mostly with small groups of people. My most memorable experience with it was when we employed it in working in collaboration with an advertising agency, with the objective of coming up with a name for little donut holes that Dunkin' Donuts wanted to market. The project wound up identifying the name "Munchkins."

There were many techniques that were used in the approach. One example: Problems would often be translated into analogies on the premise that sometimes we can't see a solution because we're looking too directly at the problem; and working with an analogy can sometimes get us out of that box. Another example was the "ordered response," whereby people in the group were allowed to dump on someone else's idea—but the "price of admission" for doing so was that the "dumper" first had to list the promising elements of the "dumpee's" idea, giving the group some positives on which to build. A third example was that problems could never be stated as problems; they had to be restated as challenges, usually beginning with the word "How.....?" Thus, "I've got a splinter in my finger" might be restated as "How can I get this splinter out of my finger?"

The general idea is to employ problems and negatives as a springboard to get all the thinking moving in a constructive direction while freeing up the minds of participants from mental constraints to creative thought. It probably sounds very weird, and I may have done a lousy job of summarizing it. But I can guarantee that the lasting personal benefit of my exposure to the idea was that I found it could be employed in one's personal life.

I have repeatedly used elements of the idea in child-rearing, in my job, definitely in my marriage. and also in thinking about my favorite sports teams. Many of the operational details now escape me, because it's been a while since I used the technique on a formal basis. But, over roughly 40 years, it has became so personally instinctive that perhaps it has evolved into a genuine personality trait, whereby negative issues go in one side of the brain and come out the other side as positive implications. The new business venture I mentioned to you, off the board, was a result of a little Synectics session I held with myself.

I realize I have a tendency to "go off" a bit when I note someone who seems deliberately bent on doing nothing by spreading gloom and doom. And that can depict me as some kind of polyanna. But, in truth, my feelings are more an expression of regret that the person apparently lacks the capacity to convert those negative thoughts into something far more dynamic, constructive and ultimately rewarding. The irony is that the Synectics method would lose much of its impact without a stable full of nice juicy negatives that can be used as a catalyst to propel one in a positive direction.

So perhaps, instead of becoming agitated about a "doom and gloomer," it would be more appropriate for to be grateful for the fuel (s)he is really adding to the creative ways in which we can support the Celtics. It's just difficult to pull the entire sequence off during the hurly burly of a game-on thread. So how can I arrive at a way to make my "shoot-from-the-hip" responses more constructive? (See how Synectics works?)

Sam

[Pumpsie Green]

Jeb,

I second the motion to be positive.


Pete

Me too.....except when its not called for.

[sdceltfan]

Sam, I must say that I am more than a little disappointed in your attitude toward posters who question the direction the Celtics have been headed for the last 2 - 3 months. I have given good analysis, in my mind, supported by not only statistics but losses and disappointing performances as well. Yes, I am a strong Celtic fan, as are others on this board who joined in order to not only pick the minds and hearts of Celtic fans such as you, but also give our impressions. I feel a more diverse discertation on any subject alows for a greater understanding of the present and prediction of the future.

I feel your references to those who don't have the positive feelings that others have as appearing "shortsighted"; "don't know any better"; or "premature assumptions usually having its roots in arrogance or naiivete or pomposity or an agenda of cynicism" as being judgemental and disrespectful.

You're a man who has seemed more than fair in the past, Sam. I respect your feelings and Celtic / basketball knowledge, but am more than a little disappointed by these references. We can disagee, but respect and tolerance for differences should remain.

Go Celtics!!

[Pumpsie Green]

Sam, I must say that I am more than a little disappointed in your attitude toward posters who question the direction the Celtics have been headed for the last 2 - 3 months. I have given good analysis, in my mind, supported by not only statistics but losses and disappointing performances as well. Yes, I am a strong Celtic fan, as are others on this board who joined in order to not only pick the minds and hearts of Celtic fans such as you, but also give our impressions. I feel a more diverse discertation on any subject alows for a greater understanding of the present and prediction of the future.

I feel your references to those who don't have the positive feelings that others have as appearing "shortsighted"; "don't know any better"; or "premature assumptions usually having its roots in arrogance or naiivete or pomposity or an agenda of cynicism" as being judgemental and disrespectful.

You're a man who has seemed more than fair in the past, Sam. I respect your feelings and Celtic / basketball knowledge, but am more than a little disappointed by these references. We can disagee, but respect and tolerance for differences should remain.

Go Celtics!!

We can disagee, but respect and tolerance for differences should remain

I am probably the poster child for posts that are less than positive for this team, though I am a Celtics fan for life. At no time did I get the impression that Sam was unfair in any way. If all opinions are welcome, then those of the optimists here should be welcome too. The wording of those stated opinions is up to each individual as long as personnal attacks are left home.
He just has a different opinion, a different outlook. I cannot imagine a board that is more boring than one that expresses a monotone uniform opinion. IMO all viewpoints should be welcome. It adds a little spice here, without which we might as well keep reading Gone With The Wind over and over againl.

[jeb]

There is nothing wrong with identifying problems. There is nothing wrong with 7 people seeing things seven different ways as pumpsie said it adds variety.

Different fuels for different engines. I think it's funner and more useful to identify problems and try to figure them out rather than just dwelling on things you dont have.

Everyone is free to make their own choice.

Best

Jeb

[Sam]

SD,

Thanks for your critique. I'm sorry if you feel that I have a tendency to be critical of some people just because they don't have the positive feelings of others. Nothing could be farther than the truth.

If you go back over my posts, especially on the game-on threads and the post-game threads (there are well over 100 such posts to choose from), you'll find loads of less-than-positive comments concerning the Celtics. Go ahead and check it out!

If you joined in order to "pick the minds and hearts" of others and myself, then you must have noticed the emphasis my mind places on the matter of context in drawing conclusions related to basketball. It has seemed strange to me that some people began, not even a month after the Celtics had a 23-5 record despite a still-recovering KG and without the presence of Glen Davis and (some of that time) Marquis Daniels, to begin drawing global conclusions about the future of the Celtics. The timing of such broad conclusions seemed completely premature, and I expressed my feelings.

But it had nothing to do with dissing anyone simply because of an expression of negativity. It was my way of sharing some of that perspective you joined to avail yourself of...my way of suggesting that the appropriateness of one's context should always be kept in mind.

I've never once claimed that everyone should be positive about everything Celtic. And I believe (although I'd have to look it up to be certain) I expressed that very viewpoint to you specifically, saying several times that I thoroughly understood where you were coming from but suggesting that I didn't share your context and thought it premature. I believe I even asked your opinion (and in a thoroughly non-confrontational manner) about certain issues concerning the Celtics.

All of the above is my personal side speaking. There's a moderator side as well, which I'll try to explain below (although it really doesn't pertain so much to your specific concern).

There are times when the expression of negatives becomes so predictably repetitive that it takes on the appearance of an agenda, even if it really isn't. Dudder is a prime example, and what makes it more vexing is that Dudder is obviously a student of basketball who could offer a more "balanced" opinion but apparently is deliberate in deciding not to do so.

And Dudder hides behind the cloak of reality (the "I call them as I see them" mantra); but his version of reality not-so-coincidentally appears almost universally negative...to the point that, when the Celtics were really on a roll, he would disappear for months at a time—ostensibly because he couldn't find anything negative to say. Once in a while, he'd throw everyone a bone—never really complimenting the team but suggesting the Celtics might do well under certain circumstances. That was his gesture to optimism to which he would later allude as proof that he wasn't solely negative.

A lot of people joined this forum to escape not only the Martini-type "foreign" trolls but also the incessant negativity about the Celtics from a few people who claimed to be Celtics fans. On this board, I have to be sensitive to trying to ensure that agendas of any type—political (which we've had and banned), one-sided negativity toward the Celtics, or whatever—are very closely monitored.

The warning signal is usually that a specific negative comment (let's say it involves the Celtics letting an opponent back into a game) is followed by some sweeping generalization such as that this team has no shot at succeeding this year. And, if 95% of the posts from the same person are of the same type, it takes on that distinct aura of a Dudder-like agenda.

It's not having a negative opinion that's the problem; it's the apperance of an agenda—especially if it involves mainly unsupported outbursts. If the poster accompanied his/her criticism about letting the other team back into the game with some knowledgeable analysis of the situation, it could potentially generate some interesting conversation. It would be a genuine contribution. But simply to make the quantum leap from a gripe to forecasting dire season-long consequences really offers nothing constructive on a message board of Celtics aficionados except (if it occurs repeatedly) to invite disdain.

I don't want that to happen to either the poster or the membership at large, so I try to discourage it before it provokes a fight. At least if I address it, I can control how it's done (for better or worse). Frankly, I'd much rather be discussing the Celtics than to be trying to deal with "situations" of that type but it's not always possible. And frankly, I wouldn't even bother unless I respected the people involved in the first place.

Sam

[Sam]

Hey Pumpsie, I've seen "Gone with the Wind" seven times in movie theaters, but I've read it only once. What does that mean?

Sam

[Pumpsie Green]

Hey Pumpsie, I've seen "Gone with the Wind" seven times in movie theaters, but I've read it only once. What does that mean?

Sam

I liked Gone with the Wind too...the first three times I saw it. After that it became predictable and monotonous. Does that help?

[bobheckler]

Hey Pumpsie,

I responded to your post on the Knicks thread about where I live (SF bay area) saw you live in Marin. I was sooo sick that day (still am, I took yesterday off and spent 22 of the last 24 hours in bed) I didn't stick around to discuss further.

I live in San Carlos, on the Peninsula.

bob

[spike]

TO HELL WITH POSITIVE!!!

I'm in total agreement with my good buds notrade and markymork, this team sucks and they should blow it up!!! This group doesn't have the talwent to go to the bathroom, forget the Finals!

They shoulda domped Rondo and keept Oriene Green. Except Danny can't judge talwent and Doc cant envelop wit.

They should fire Doc and hire Kevin McHale and Cedreic Maxwell, both those guys make a lot more sense when they talk. Besides Doc never even played for the Celtics.

KG is gonna keep getting hurt. Paul Pierce they should cut him off the team, jus swallow his contract and get rid of him. He cant even shoot, so what if he won the 3 point contest. Where's the pressure in that? And Ray, he was over the hill before they even traded for him. We shoulda keept Delonte West. It's over, the end, nada.

They should dump the big three and use the money to sign Lebron and DWade in the offseason and Bosh too. Forget te CBA, jus do it.

Being negative is so much more fun. I feel better already.

[jeb]

Sam

as usual well said. I have read your post (the first response to me) several times and will give it deep consideration. In all aspects of life there are going to be people
who present things to you you dont like to hear. How does one filter those things? Once it's run through the personal filter how does it come out of you? You cant control another's negativity but can control your response. If there are things you can do better make those steps. A strategy that can help everybody.

Good stuff.

Jeb

[Sam]

Thanks Jeb. It means a lot to me, but I'm a little strange myself.

Sam

[Sam]

Here's the post-game thread for the Cavs game. I didn't get to see the first half and will try to watch it on TIVO before posting my observations. From what I saw, a quick synopsis would be an energetic first half for the Celtics, followed by a draining of that energy in the second half. A combination of the absence of Shaq and good substitutions by Brown rendered the Celtics out-quicked by the Cavs throughout most of the second half, particularly on the Cavs' offensive end. And, in the fourth, the Celtics simply defaulted to low-percentage jumpers and heaves in traffic.

Anyway, I'll try to chime in if I can catch the first half. In the meantime, post away.

Sam

[cowens/oldschool]

We couldn't hit a thing in 4th,thought we had makeable shots most of 2nd half,everyone went cold,KG,Sheed,Ray,Rondo.....frustrating,was it lack of energy or looking our age?

[jeb]

cow

It looked like they made adjustments and Rondo got gassed. Hell they got a good team. That was just a buttwhipping.

he problem was the o. Pretty frustrating to watch. Good game til the 4th.

[steve3344]

Outscored 63-32 on our court (without even Shaq) over the final 25 1/2 minutes of the game.

I know we didn't have Pierce, but this was a major spanking.

We gots a long way to go.

[Pumpsie Green]

Just an old fashioned spanking in the woodshed in the second half.

[jeb]

Got to figure a way through these funks on offense. Happened in the 4th tonight. Need to finish around the rim.

[Pumpsie Green]

Outscored 63-32 on our court (without even Shaq) over the final 25 1/2 minutes of the game.

I know we didn't have Pierce, but this was a major spanking.

We gots a long way to go.

This is it Steve...this is all we got. Its all we have had since the loss to Philly around Christmas. About a .500 club; mediocre in every sense of the word. Too old; can't rebound; long offensive droughts. Hey, the Celtics will always be my team; I hope they win a ring every year. But I don't think anyone should have unrealistic expectations that they will somehow gel or improve in April. Not gonna happen. Not this year.

[jeb]

it's all yours pumpsie.

[RosalieTCeltics]

My biggest problem with this game was ball movement and the stagnant offense in the second half. Since when did we rely on Rondo to be our three point shooter??? As good a first half that he had, he had a terrible second half. No movement, the double teaming of Ray, and the second unit which game them almost nothing. I don't know, they can say we are old, but it is the young players alot of the time who are not playing up to snuff.

[112288]

Best First Half Team In The NBA!

Hey ...... Doc, Danny, Wyc know what is going on and what is needed, so let them fix it! I just hope they can scoop up some one that can light the place up when the rest of the team goes flat. Nate can do it but he is feeling his way around and does not have his confidence yet. I hope they can bring in a scoring forward and a defensive specialist at forward as well.

And to think I was thinking double digit win tonight after the first half. With the weather, it was no night for man,dog or for that matter a Celtic to be out in!

112288

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