Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

[Sam]

The Celts took a three-game winning streak into this game against the Wizards. Fans were cautiously optimistic in looking forward to more of the same. Would they get it?

Well, yes and no. The Celtics played only six or seven minutes of sparkling basketball at the end, but those minutes were enough to eke out a three-point win. Once again, the team seemed to play down to the competition but also continued to demonstrate the ability to turn it on when absolutely necessary. So this was a sort of bad news good news game.

Michael Finley was present but not dressed for the game. Doc did mention that he was looking forward to playing Finley and Quis together.

Paul Pierce immediately drove in for a little fadeaway hook, and it seemed the Celts might be off to the races. Rondo followed with a solo breakaway hoop. At first blush, they were looking like world-beaters, especially when Washington turned the ball over on their next
possession.

But KG missed the first of several jumpers and then had a layup blocked, starting a string of ___ field goal attempts for the night with
nary a score from the field. (He was to sink eight free throws.) Miller hit a trademark three, and the teams started into trading
scores. The interior defense of the Celtics was quite stagnant. Both teams were committing turnovers. Foye and Javale McGee (in penetration), Andray Blatche (jumpers) and Thornton (perimeter scores) were alternating scores for the Wizards, and the Celtics were a half step behind in defending. Perk and Pierce were the only two Celtics doing much on the offensive end, but the game was tied at 15 before Blatche knocked down another jumper at the 4:17 mark. Washington was moving the ball beautifully on offense, while the Celtics were depending a lot on iso plays. The Wiz led 19-15 at the 2:00 mark.

The Wizards now began double- and triple-teaming Pierce on his drives, and the Celts didn’t have much of anything else working at that
point. The reserves began filtering in at the 3:30 mark in the forms of Quis and Sheed. Glen Davis soon joined them. Lately, Doc has been inserting the bench over time rather than abruptly throwing the entire bench in there.

Tom Heinsohn had just said he’d be interested in how Sheed defended Blatche when Andray just left Sheed in the dust for a layup. A Nate sighting occurred at 1:25 as Sheed was shooting (and making) two free throws as Scal also came in and Boston trailed 21-17. Scal forced Thornton into a travel, but Thornton forced in a layup during the next possession. Then Sheed missed and Glen Davis just flew in and one-handed a follow-up jam. At the one-quarter mark, the Wizards were up 25-19; and the Celts were shooting 32% and the Wizards 56%.

In the second quarter, Glen Davis quickly flew into the second row saving a pass, but the bench couldn’t buy a basket. Quis and Davis misfired on a pick and roll. Sheed clanged a three. Fortunately the Wiz were missing too. Finally, after three minutes of futility and the Wiz up by eight, Davis got fouled; but he could make only one of two. I did like the fact that Doc was playing five legitimate bench players simultaneously: Nate, Davis, Sheed, Quis and Scal…and then the first four with Tony. Give those starters some good rest and
the bench some cohesion, Doc. The bench was playing much more aggressive defense than the starters had and looked much more in synch on defense than on offense. Glen Davis just harassed some Washington player into dribbling out of bounds. Glen also garnered six rebounds in his first eight minutes of play.

Perk and Ray replaced Quis Tony and Sheed, and Perk and Boykins traded buckets; then Perk drove for an authoritative slam. The Celts were down 32-26 with about half the period gone. The starters were all in there now, and they mounted a little flurry: a Ray Allen drive, two free throws by KG, and a Perk layup; but it wasn’t long before the Wizards were once again up by six. McGee was playing heroic defense, blocking layups by KG and Pierce in consecutive possessions. Finally, Ray threw a court-length to KG, who couldn’t do anything with it but wound up inside-outing to Ray for a nice three. Celts now trailing by only three with a little over a minute left in the half. Thornton reeled off four quick points; Pierce hit a free throw; and the Wiz led 44-38 at the half, with the Celts shooting only 35%.

Thornton and Pierce traded baskets to open the second half. Tommy noted that Pierce’s defense on Thornton was the worst he’d seen in a long time. Shortly thereafter, Thornton drove for a hoop and was fouled by Paul Fortunately Al missed the freebie. The Wiz lead fluctuated between four and eight points for a while. Rondo was 1-4 with two assists by the middle of third period.

The starters made an incursion as Ray got hot and Rondo hit a couple of shots. But Thornton and Blatche quickly had the Wiz up by 14 before the Celts again rallied to trail by only four at the end of three quarters (66-62) as Rondo heated up (including a trey) and Ray kept hitting layups. They ended the quarter on a 12-3 run (love those runs). At this point, Washington was shooting 50% and the Celtics only 39%.

The Celts began the fourth quarter with a quintet of Rondo, Nate, Quis, Sheed and Davis. This unit stood around on offense, and Sheed in particular looked very tired on defense as Blatche had no difficulty going around him. With nine minutes to go, the Celts trailed by nine, and a unit of Ray, KG, Pierce, Quis and Sheed was in there. A Thornton reverse made the Wiz lead 11. KG traveled, and a
Blatche jumper put Washington up by 13.

At this point, the Celtics began pressing all over the floor. They forced Washington into a 24-second violation. And, lo and behold, the Celts went on an 10-0 run, capped by a nice Perk pick that freed Rondo for a layup and a great open-court pass threaded by Rondo to Ray for a dunk. (Love those runs.) Boston now extended full court pressure, and the aggressive defense clearly rattled the Wiz in their offensive end. The Wiz were still up 79-72, but they tossed an airball as the clock wound down.

Rondo drove in for a layup high off the board. Blatche threw a wild pass oub of bounds. 3:09 left. Pierce hit a jumper. Three point game. Foy to McGee for a nice alley-oop. Rondo missed a floater and committed a foul. KG forced Thornton into an errant shot, and KG raced do the floor to take a Rondo pass and get smacked to the floor on a layup attempt. Kevin hit one of two, and the Celts trailed by four with 1:56 left.

Foye missed a layup, and Rondo grabbed the rebound and went the length of the floor for a twisting floater on which he scored and was
fouled. A key play followed, as Rondo missed the free throw but Perk rebounded and passed out to Ray for a three. Boston now led by one with 1:37 to play.

The Wiz weren’t through, as Foye knocked down a clutch jumper. Another Rondo floater missed. Foye missed a really long three, the
ball was batted loose, and KG went to the floor for it and called timeout. Celts’ ball. After the timeout, Rondo to Ray for another three off a great double pick by KG and Perk. (And Perk was in perfect rebounding position if it were needed.) Timeout Wiz with the Celts up two at 17.1 seconds.

KG bothered Blatche and made him miss a jumper, as the ball went out of bounds. Celts timeout. Inbounds pass to KG, who was fouled. He mad won, and time ran out with the Celts up 86-83 for the win as Thornton rimmed out a desperation three. The Celtics had
mounted a 20-4 run in the fourth quarter, leveraging a stifling defense to win it. (Love those runs.)

In this game, the starters displayed exemplary offense and defense down the stretch—but that was the only time. The defense of the bench was excellent in the third quarter, but they only scored three of 20 field goal attempts for the entire game.

It was a strange statistical game:

• The Celts starters actually wound up shooting 52% and the bench 14%.

• The starters averaged a +11 rating and the bench -8.

• G had no field goals (the first time since he was age 20) but did make eight free throws and contributed 10 defensive rebounds and three assists.

• The starters played from 29 minutes (Pierce) to 37 minutes (Rondo).

• The Celts normally assist on well over 60% of their made field goals, but last night’s figure was only 50%, reflecting even more of an iso mentality than usual.

• Rondo had seven assists, marking the second game in the last three when he hasn’t hit double figures on assists. But he did score some key points in the second half, although he had four turnovers for the game (as did KG).

• Ray definitely gets the game ball with 25 points but, more important many timely daggers.

The Celts (particularly Ray, Rondo and Pierce) hit some key shots. But it was putting on the defensive clamps during the last six minute of the game that won it. In short, they displayed the aptitude to play great defense; they just have to do it more consistently. I’m not shocked that the bench is in some offensive disarray. Nate’s obviously trying to find his way into the bench combination. Taking only three shots (with no points) in his 14 minutes is definitely not Nate-like.

Sam

[Pumpsie Green]

Hi Pumpsie,

My feeling is conveying disgust is fine, I actually felt and posted during the game the Cs looked old and out of synch. If you "tone it down a bit" I think you'll get a good reaction from fellow posters even if we have much different viewpoints than yours.

No problem. I "may" have gone a little overboard with the pictures and some of the language. I don't want to make this forum unenjoyable for you guys.
Cheer up: when the Red Sox season starts I will be living in their forum and will be pretty scarce around here. First game: April 4 against the Yankmees Yankees

[mrkleen09]

Cheer up: when the Red Sox season starts I will be living in their forum and will be pretty scarce around here. First game: April 4 against the Yankmees Yankees

And there we have it folks....straight from the horses mouth.

[dbrown4]

I'm not sure I'm a buyer of having to play 48 minutes of lockdown defense every game, or great offense all the time. Or consistency for that matter, especially with this team. I think we believe it would be great if they could so we wouldn't have to eat bottles of Tums or drink gallons of Pepto Bismal for every game, but this team just isn't going to give us that.

I think we're looking in the wrong places as this game shows. Let's face it. They didn't play Jack for 42 minutes. But the 6 minutes they did play were really hot NBA basketball! We're all looking for the marathon performance (48 minutes of pure hell) when this team is set up for (and keeps playing night in night out) micro bursts like last night. Let face this. They really did well those last 6 minutes.

They can still have/achieve synergy in their current set-up, it just won't be the marathon performance we seem to keep looking/hoping for (or demanding from them) and have been, for the most part, disappointed with to this point.

It is the Red moment I mentioned earlier in this thread. 3 minutes to rip their hearts out. Look at the Wizards faces when they left the court. Sam Cassell as well. Their hearts were ripped out, no question. I'll take that look on LeBron's face come May a thousand times over!

[Sam]

Dbrown,

I subscribe to Red's tenet that a team can win if it outplays the other team for three of the 48 minutes while playing even with the other team the other 45. However, playing even with them the other 45 minutes is a major assumption.

Basketball is a game of runs. Let's say you team has a great 15-0 run over a three minute period. If the other team has three 7-0 runs over the remaining 45 minutes, the other team could win handily. Red would never have been happy to trade off a high degree of consistency for one good run a game...far too risky.

Consistency doesn't necessarily equate with 48-minute dominance. But micro bursts can become increasingly difficult to generate if a team doesn't keep "in practice" more than one of them per game. Last night, there were periods in both the first and third periods when the Celtics had mini bursts (if not micro bursts—I don't know the difference) that enabled them to stay within reasonable hailing distance.

Sam

[Pumpsie Green]

Cheer up: when the Red Sox season starts I will be living in their forum and will be pretty scarce around here. First game: April 4 against the Yankmees Yankees

And there we have it folks....straight from the horses mouth.

But I could change my mind

[spike]

Sam

Offensive spurts are wonderful, but the way I read Bill's quote, he was talking about three minutes of smothering defense: "This is the time we need to do it, when you lock them down for three minutes and execute our offense."

Bill was continually looking ahead and playing the game within the game. You know how he knew he could block a certain player's shot any time he wanted, but didn't, instead choosing to wait until it mattered. I think that's what he's describing: applying shut-down defense, with no offensive rebounds, and take what you can get on offense. Somewhere during those three minutes, the enemy point guard realized he couldn't get out of the backcourt, none of his teammates could get open, and that big Number 6 was everywhere.

[jeb]

Cow

Hawks loose. Number 3 with a bullet!

[worcester]

Yes, the Celtics sucked for the first 42 minutes, and to remind everyone of the real origin of that term, it came from football, when coaches would deride a player for being out of shape by saying he "sucked wind" after some exercise. There was no sexual connotation to it at all until the last two decaades. That being clarified, yes, they really did suck. But then the last 6 minutes they did play like champions. That's what I took away from the game. The Celts got up off the canvas and scored the knockout punch. Not much else matters, except that Ray deserves major acknowledgment for his continued stellar play since the trade deadline. What a consummate pro. Too think we almost lost him, and I was one of the idiots calling loudly for his departure. Thank God Danny knows a bit about being a GM.

[cowens/oldschool]

Hawks just lost to a bottom tier terrible team,thats sports,theres one poser,I mean poster who acts like that never ever happens......and if it does the whole season is ofcourse over,and everyone has to play 48 minutes with effort,total effort

[Sam]

There are certainly more than enough losses to go around lately among the so-called top-tier teams. Each team is facing its own challenges, and I'm glad we have a board that is so committed to supporting the Celtics in their efforts.

One of the most difficult things in life is to take a leap of faith, especially when we have no immediate control over the circumstances. The predominant spirit of hope that pervades this forum is especially rewarding to an old-timer who has repeatedly found that (1) hope pays off much of the time and (2) in those instances when it misfires, it's comforting for one to know that (s)he never quit on the team.

Go Celtics!

Sam

[swedeinestonia]

The way I look at it I enjoy the downtimes more with some hope than if I just look at the bad side of things.

Easier to get out of a slump with some positive goals in sight.

[Sam]

You're right, Swede. If the players looked at things the same way many fans do, they wouldn't even get out of bed much of the time.

As I've said many times, we'll know the Celtics are feeling truly on top of things when we see a sense of joy in their demeanor (and it's definitely going in the right direction.) One could also add a sense of swagger and winning expectations (perhaps a greater distance to go in those cases, but still trending in a positive direction).

I'm looking forward to the upcoming Cleveland game. For one thing, they'll presumably have another few games (and practices) of "togetherness" under their belts. Moreover, they seem to have been playing down to the level of recent opponents, and I'll be interested to see what happens if they play up to the level of the Cavs.

Sam

[mrkleen09]

But I could change my mind

Right, because you are such a long time, die hard fan. What a joke.

[cowens/oldschool]

We all know what 90% of the game looked like..

What I liked about the game was at some point 2/3 into the 4th I could really see how Pierce started putting a lot of effort into things.

I like how they set their minds and effort to it and it paid off. Maybe it was not really deserved but I think it will be good for confidence.

The fact of the matter is that somehow the Celtics won yesterday and played just six minutes and thirteen seconds of great basketball. At that point they were 13 points down. There is really no excuse for that; these guys are supposed to be professionals. I realize that you guys did not like some (or all) of the comments I made during the game thread, but they were, in fact, right on factually, for the most part. The only comment I made that was not factually accurate was that the "game was over"...and even that appeared to be true at the time.
I understand that perhaps the way I conveyed my disgust with the team was perhaps a little over the top for some of you; I do understand that and should have no trouble toning it down a bit.
HOWEVER: I AM NOT GOING TO CALL A PILE OF POOP A ROSE OR VICE VERSA. If they stink, I will say so, though less "abrasively"; and if they are great, I will say that too, as I always do.
I hope that works for you guys.

Hi Pumpsie,

My feeling is conveying disgust is fine, I actually felt and posted during the game the Cs looked old and out of synch. If you "tone it down a bit" I think you'll get a good reaction from fellow posters even if we have much different viewpoints than yours.

looks like a guy playing it both ways,fine be that way

[Sam]

Any deletions from posts are nothing personal. I'm just trying to keep
the tone of discussion within the bounds of reason, which includes
(from my point of view) no excessive and gratuitous agendas of
negativity, no goading, and no personal attacks or name-calling.

I
guess it's either the deletion game or freezing each thread as it
becomes infected. And I believe all of us spend far too much time in
earnestly preparing our posts for the latter course of action to be
constructive.

So just remember. It's nothing personal.

Sam

[bobheckler]

Any deletions from posts are nothing personal. I'm just trying to keep
the tone of discussion within the bounds of reason, which includes
(from my point of view) no excessive and gratuitous agendas of
negativity, no goading, and no personal attacks or name-calling.

I
guess it's either the deletion game or freezing each thread as it
becomes infected. And I believe all of us spend far too much time in
earnestly preparing our posts for the latter course of action to be
constructive.

So just remember. It's nothing personal.

Sam

"It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business". - Michael Corleone

:-)

bob

[Sam]

Bob,

Why do I feel like I'm approaching a toll booth? It was bad enough to wake up this morning and find a horse's head between my wife and myself.

Sam

[beat]

The Horses name.

Khartoum

Won a hundred bucks in a trivia contest one time cause I knew that!
Sometimes seeming worthless knowledge isn't so worthless.

beat

[Pumpsie Green]

But I could change my mind

Right, because you are such a long time, die hard fan. What a joke.

While I admit that I didn't follow the team as closely during the lean years, I have probably been a Celtics fan longer than you have been alive. And I think you misunderstood: unless Sam decides to ban me, I am not going to completely stop posting here any time soon. To do so would deprive you all of my divergent viewpoint. You guys are entitled to your opinions; I am entitled to mine. Its the exchange of opinions that makes any board interesting.

[spike]

Pumpsie Green: "Its the exchange of opinions that makes any board interesting."

No, not if those opinions are BORING!!!

[Pumpsie Green]

Pumpsie Green: "Its the exchange of opinions that makes any board interesting."

No, not if those opinions are BORING!!!

No, not if those opinions are BORING!!!

Agreed....so if you think that your post is going to be boring, insulting, or otherwise incendiary you should just refrain from typing it, right?

[bigpygme]

Pumpsie -

the comments you made that you were just posting to STIR THE POT, then specifically endorsed that description and later tried to change it to something that sounded better turned me off thoroughly from everything you had to say after that.

you could've morphed into Hubie Brown after that and i wouldn't have paid any attention to what you said, because your implicit message was clear. you just enjoyed messin with us, and were posting more for effect than accuracy. it's all in the thread, you can't change it.

what a waste.

if you have something to offer in a civil tone, respectful of our beloved team of professional players, i may after a time be able to get past the messenger to the message. but so far you've made it all about the messenger - all about YOU.

Tyrone -

thanks for elaborating on Russell's comments about Red's philosophy. great job of digging up some very insightful, key elements of what can make a champion. throttle them with D for 3 minutes and make em feel nothing's going to work, and take advantage of whatever is available on O -- if i don't mis-state your points. thanks for your contribution.

Michael

[bobheckler]

But I could change my mind

Right, because you are such a long time, die hard fan. What a joke.

While I admit that I didn't follow the team as closely during the lean years, I have probably been a Celtics fan longer than you have been alive. And I think you misunderstood: unless Sam decides to ban me, I am not going to completely stop posting here any time soon. To do so would deprive you all of my divergent viewpoint. You guys are entitled to your opinions; I am entitled to mine. Its the exchange of opinions that makes any board interesting.

pumpsie,

So, you followed the Celtics during the Glory Years (when they were good), didn't follow them during "the lean years" (when they were bad) and are following them again now when they're good.

I don't know if you've been a Celtic fan longer than I've been alive, maybe you have and maybe not, but you've definitely been a "Fair Weather" Celtic fan longer than I've been alive.

Congrats.

bob

[Pumpsie Green]

[/quote]


pumpsie,

So, you followed the Celtics during the Glory Years (when they were good), didn't follow them during "the lean years" (when they were bad) and are following them again now when they're good.

I don't know if you've been a Celtic fan longer than I've been alive, maybe you have and maybe not, but you've definitely been a "Fair Weather" Celtic fan longer than I've been alive.

Congrats.

bob[/quote]

HAHAHA...partially guilty as charged Bob. Its not like I didn't check basketball scores every morning in the paper or watch the team when they were on national TV-I did those things. I didn't forget about them or start cheering for the Warriors or the Lakers. Its been tough to get Celtics games (or any Boston sports teams for that matter) out here in CA over the years. Now Comcast offers an NBA add-on that I subscribe to and I can watch the Red Sox on MLB.COM for an annual fee too.
I remember going back to Massachusetts to visit family during the lean years and walking into North Station to connect on the T. I walked up to the box office to see if tickets were still available to see the Celtics that evening and the clerk looked at me funny and said "Of course there are tickets still available. Its not as if Larry Bird still plays here. How many do you want?". I guess I had a lot of company in following the team more peripherally when they were really bad.

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