Jimmy Butler trade rumors: Minnesota Timberwolves, Boston Celtics reportedly interested

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/06/jimmy_butler_trade_rumors_minn.html



Jimmy Butler trade rumors: Minnesota Timberwolves, Boston Celtics reportedly interested




The Boston Celtics reportedly pursued Jimmy Butler (right) before the trade deadline. (AP Photo/Michael Dwyer)


Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com



on June 14, 2016 at 6:40 AM



Chicago Bulls wing Jimmy Butler, an All-Star linked to the Boston Celtics at the trade deadline rumor mill, will likely have another suitor this summer.

According to ESPN's Marc Stein and Chad Ford, the Minnesota Timberwolves are willing to offer the No. 5 overall draft pick in an effort to acquire Butler. The two ESPN scribes reported Monday night that the Bulls are not actively shopping the two-time All-Star, but "have been listening to pitches" for him. The piece includes that the Celtics "are also known to have trade interest in Butler." They chased him prior to the February trade deadline.

What might the price look like?

From ESPN:

Sources say that the Bulls naturally would demand a significant amount in return to part with Butler, which likely translates to at least one front-line player in addition to a top lottery pick this month.

Given Butler's age, talent and reasonable contract, the Bulls would need a hefty haul to even consider dealing him. This past season, the 26-year-old averaged 20.9 points per game, 5.3 rebounds per game and 4.8 assists per game while making his second straight All-Star Game and third consecutive All-Defensive second team. He is under contract for about $18.7 million per season over the next three years, with a player option of $19.8 million for the 2019-20 campaign.

Despite all that, Butler has been in trade rumors for months, and could be gettable for a valuable package of players and picks. When asked about Butler's future in April, Chicago general manager Gar Forman did nothing to quiet the rumblings, saying the team needs to "explore all options." The Bulls later sent Butler to the NBA Draft lottery, perhaps a sign of support, but could still feel a need to rework their roster. Joakim Noah and Pau Gasol are both free agents, while Taj Gibson and Derrick Rose have just one more year left on their contracts. If the club decides to open a long-term rebuilding process, Butler has (by far) the most value to rack in future-minded assets. Of course, he's also a top wing with a long-term contract who should theoretically be entering his prime. He is a future-minded asset, and should be tough to lure away.

Could the Celtics trump Minnesota's offer? Assuming Karl Towns and Andrew Wiggins are staying put, here's one man's idea for the Timberwolves:

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Sean Highkin ✔ @highkin
No. 5 + some combination of LaVine/Dieng/Shabazz would be a solid return for Butler. But I'd be surprised if it happened.
5:22 PM - 13 Jun 2016
 20 20 Retweets   10 10 likes


The Celtics own a better top pick (No. 3 overall), two additional first-rounders, a mountain of other picks, and a core of young players with playoff experience. In February, they reportedly offered two first-round picks (including this year's lottery selection from Brooklyn) but may have balked when the Bulls wanted Jae Crowder.

It's possible the Bulls could like Zach LaVine's upside more than any player Boston would offer -- and for that to be a deal-breaker -- but otherwise the Celtics probably have the means to present a better package. Of course, they would still need to surrender a lot (maybe too much for Danny Ainge), and the Bulls would still need to say yes. Teams usually like to keep young, talented two-way players on good contracts, but maybe Chicago will move Butler if the price is right.


bob


.

Hard to picture the Bulls would move Butler, but the #5 pick and Zach LaVine would have to be tempting.

The #5 pick, LaVine AND Dieng would be a move the Bulls 100% should do and would trump our offers unless we included the 2017 Nets pick, which the C's should not do.

If I am the Bulls I hold out for that but the T'Wolves would understandably balk at giving up their 3rd and 5th best players along with the pick. Due to just turning 21 in March and being owed just 5.5 million over the next 2 years before RFA I consider LaVine better than Rubio, who turns 27 in October and is owed 42 million over the next 3. 

#5, Muhammad and Dieng is probably enough as well and is the deal I would say is most fair to both sides.  

The Bulls should want LaVine, since he is entering a 3rd season where young guys often breakout and has the most chance to be a star. He can play some PG allowing Rose to play off the ball. With pick #5 I'd expect the Bulls to take Chriss or Bender. 

The T'Wolves should try and give the Bulls Pekovic and the 2/24 left on his deal if they give up LaVine. Pek is always injured but at 30 might be able to get back to the guy who put up 17/9 a few years back isn't a horrible stopgap to replace the losses of Noah and Gasol up front as the Bulls rebuild over a few years.

A T'Wolves team of Rubio-Butler-Wiggins-KAT and Dieng could make some noise next year. 

Too bad it wasn't their 2017 pick top 10 (or was it lotto?) protected that the Celtics owned instead of their 2016 one.

Ram wrote:The #5 pick, LaVine AND Dieng would be a move the Bulls 100% should do and would trump our offers unless we included the 2017 Nets pick, which the C's should not do.

If I am the Bulls I hold out for that but the T'Wolves would understandably balk at giving up their 3rd and 5th best players along with the pick. Due to just turning 21 in March and being owed just 5.5 million over the next 2 years before RFA I consider LaVine better than Rubio, who turns 27 in October and is owed 42 million over the next 3. 

#5, Muhammad and Dieng is probably enough as well and is the deal I would say is most fair to both sides.  

The Bulls should want LaVine, since he is entering a 3rd season where young guys often breakout and has the most chance to be a star. He can play some PG allowing Rose to play off the ball. With pick #5 I'd expect the Bulls to take Chriss or Bender. 

The T'Wolves should try and give the Bulls Pekovic and the 2/24 left on his deal if they give up LaVine. Pek is always injured but at 30 might be able to get back to the guy who put up 17/9 a few years back isn't a horrible stopgap to replace the losses of Noah and Gasol up front as the Bulls rebuild over a few years.

I don't think the #5 and Muhammed and Dieng is nearly enough.
Minnesota will probably demand a very high draft pick, other draft picks and at least one starter.
#5 and LaVine are the starting points.
I do not think Minnesota will have enough assets to trade to Chicago compared to other teams.

The difference between a team like Chicago and teams like Minnesota and Boston is that Chicago has to rebuild and a quick way to get that started is by moving Butler.

I say "Don't shot 'em, let 'em burn"

Boston and Mn are well into their rebuild.  Both have high draft picks this year and both could opt to use their # 1 pick.  Mn has done quite well thus far and has made some really good decisions like moving Kevin love and getting Wiggins.

If MN can draft a PF they would be at a point where adding rotation upgrades is all they would need to do.  Thibs is going to coach them hard so expect to see a defensive minded team

If I'm Minny I am not moving Levine, Dieng and # 5 for Butler.  MN is already right there.  Chicago is stuck in neutral.  Let them stay stuck.

dboss

dboss wrote:The difference between a team like Chicago and teams like Minnesota and Boston is that Chicago has to rebuild and a quick way to get that started is by moving Butler.

I say "Don't shot 'em, let 'em burn"

Boston and Mn are well into their rebuild.  Both have high draft picks this year and both could opt to use their # 1 pick.  Mn has done quite well thus far and has made some really good decisions like moving Kevin love and getting Wiggins.

If MN can draft a PF they would be at a point where adding rotation upgrades is all they would need to do.  Thibs is going to coach them hard so expect to see a defensive minded team

If I'm Minny I am not moving Levine, Dieng and # 5 for Butler.  MN is already right there.  Chicago is stuck in neutral.  Let them stay stuck.

dboss

dboss,

Minny is in the WC, Chicago in the EC. They don't care about Chicago being stuck. In fact, if anything, moving them out of their conference might be a plus.


bob


.

Bob

It has nothing to do with conference.

I am making a point that Mn has done a pretty good job and has a really nice young and developing team. They are going to be really good with or without Butler however Chicago needs to move Butler or they are in for a long rebuild.

I think they would be helping the Bulls more than the other way around.

dboss

If this story is true, it looks like Chicago will want a ton for Butler.
I would too if he was on my team.

Report: Bulls won't trade Jimmy Butler to Wolves unless they get Andrew Wiggins

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-bulls-wont-trade-jimmy-butler-to-wolves-unless-they-get-andrew-wiggins/

TJ,

Not sure if Minnesota benefits much from getting Butler if he costs them Wiggins and their first round pick as this may not add much to their team.

Wiggins is a developing player with a huge upside, is very inexpensive for at least a couple more years and who knows who their draft pick might turn out to be.

If Chicago wants to move Butler as part of a rebuild I think that they will have to settle for less in return as far as players in a trade that would get them a high first round pick this year.

wideclyde wrote:TJ,

Not sure if Minnesota benefits much from getting Butler if he costs them Wiggins and their first round pick as this may not add much to their team.

Wiggins is a developing player with a huge upside, is very inexpensive for at least a couple more years and who knows who their draft pick might turn out to be.

If Chicago wants to move Butler as part of a rebuild I think that they will have to settle for less in return as far as players in a trade that would get them a high first round pick this year.

I don't think Chicago wants to trade Butler. They will if they get a huge offer.
By asking for Wiggins, Chicago is telling Minnesota no thanks to a potential trade offer, unless it involves Wiggins.
Chicago should and will rebuild around Butler unless a huge offer comes their way.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/15/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins



Report: Bulls want Andrew Wiggins, draft pick in Jimmy Butler trade


The Minnesota Timberwolves are reportedly interested in trading their No. 5 draft pick for Bulls guard Jimmy Butler, but Darren Wolfson reports the Bulls will only trade Butler if the Wolves also give up guard Andrew Wiggins.

BY SI WIRE


Posted: Wed Jun. 15, 2016


The Minnesota Timberwolves are reportedly interested in trading their No. 5 draft pick for Bulls guard Jimmy Butler, but ESPN’s Darren Wolfson reports the Bulls will only trade Butler if the Wolves also give up guard Andrew Wiggins.

The Celtics, who hold the No. 3 pick in the draft, are also reportedly interested in acquiring Butler, so the Timberwolves would need to outmatch Boston’s trade offer, Wolfson reports.

Butler, 26, has averaged 13.6 points per game through his five-season NBA career and averaged at least 20 points per game over the last two seasons.

Wiggins, 21, was the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA draft and has averaged 18.8 points per game over his first two professional seasons.


bob


.

Just thought I'd stick it onto this thread.


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4723312/lets-make-a-deal-could-celtics-pry-jimmy-butler-from-bulls


Let's make a deal: Could Celtics pry Jimmy Butler from Bulls?



6:31 AM PT


Chris Forsberg, Nick Friedell




While the Chicago Bulls are not actively looking to move All-Star swingman Jimmy Butler, sources told ESPN.com earlier this week that the team is at least willing to listen to trade pitches.

Enter the Boston Celtics, who are armed with a treasure chest of eight draft picks, including the No. 3 selection via the Brooklyn Nets. If the Bulls swallow hard and elect to hit the reboot button, the Celtics have the sort of picks that might help craft an intriguing package.

Not surprisingly, Celtics fans are salivating at the possibility of getting Isaiah Thomas an All-Star tag-team partner and, well, we all know how much Brad Stevens likes things with the name Butler.

Is there any real shot to make a deal here? ESPN.com's Celtics reporter Chris Forsberg and Bulls reporter Nick Friedell huddled to ponder the possibilities.

Friedell: Mr. Forsberg, somebody asked me the other day whether I would rather have the Bulls' situation moving forward or the Celtics' situation moving forward. The answer was pretty easy in my mind: I think the Celtics are better equipped to challenge in the East at this point. Not only do they have a solid foundation of young, talented players and a slew of draft picks, they have one of the best coaches in the league in Stevens. The Bulls' front office is hoping that Fred Hoiberg can learn from some of his mistakes in a rough first season, but he isn't Stevens.

Forsberg: While the Celtics are certainly in a desirable position, the next step in their march back to true contender status will be the toughest. Boston needs more pure talent to really challenge the Cavaliers in an otherwise wide-open East, but finding the star who can propel this young and intriguing core to the next level is no easy chore, even with all of Boston's assets. That is exactly why Celtics fans perk up any time reports like these bubble up that an All-Star might be available.

But is Butler really available? You wrote in Insider’s 5-on-5 earlier this week that you thought the Bulls should consider moving on from Butler and dive headfirst into the rebuild. The Bulls sent Butler to the NBA draft lottery last month as sort of the face of the franchise and that leaves me doubting whether they'd really be willing to part with a 26-year-old star signed to modest money. So just how likely is Chicago to truly consider going the nuclear route?

Friedell: If we were headed to Vegas to put a bet down on what the Bulls decide to do this summer, I would still bet that they decide not to unload Butler because they don't feel they'll get enough value in return. Having said that, I think the probability of Butler being dealt is much higher than most fans would believe. Butler rubbed a lot of people the wrong way last season with the way he handled himself on and off the floor. He didn't adjust well to being more of a vocal leader of the group. To Butler's credit, I think he hears the criticism and is going to try to change some things going into next season.

But if you're the Bulls, are you committed to Butler being the face of your team and the player you want to build around? Bulls GM Gar Forman wouldn't commit to that when asked that exact question at the end of the season. I don't believe they are, but I also don't think the situation is so bad that they are going to move him at any cost. When you look at the Bulls' roster, Butler is really the only real valuable asset they have in terms of getting a serious haul back in return. He's young, has developed into one of the best two-way players in the league and signed a max deal last summer that, in the grand scheme of the new era of NBA money, actually isn't that bad.

If any Butler deal goes down, it would have to be for a combination of draft picks and high-level young players. That is why I'm sure Forman and Danny Ainge will continue a dialogue all summer.


Pairing Jimmy Butler and Isaiah Thomas -- and perhaps adding a third star -- could propel the Celtics toward the top of the East. Getty Images
Forsberg: So you’re telling me there’s a chance! Listen, Legal Sea Foods can offer all the free crab legs it wants, but Celtics fans know that Kevin Durant is a long shot this summer (unless the Celtics add more established talent to make this situation look even more intriguing). Because the free-agent market is otherwise thin on desirable stars, the idea of using Boston’s draft stash to lure another star such as Butler might be Boston’s only legitimate path to both becoming more competitive and having a chance to make a huge splash in free agency.

So you put on your Forman hat, I’ll get my Ainge cap and let's move to the armchair general manager lounge. Give me a deal that you think the Bulls might consider.

Friedell: Can I just wear my Cubs hat? I've been saying for a while that the Bulls should blow up the roster. I'm sure Gar is sick of listening to me. Here's where I think this gets interesting for the Bulls. Boston has some pieces that would interest them or any other team. What about Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, this year's No. 3 pick, and next year's Brooklyn pick (Boston holds the right to swap spots with the Nets)? I can hear Boston fans cringing and screaming from here. But I think this is where the discussion would get serious for the Bulls.

Forman and John Paxson don't exactly have Ainge's track record as far as wheeling and dealing goes. The biggest in-season move they've made since I've been here was landing my fellow Syracuse alum Hakim Warrick and Flip Murray. That's why, when push comes to shove, I'd still be surprised if they moved Butler.

Forsberg: That's a hefty haul and some Celtics fans will suggest that it's too much of a ransom to pay for a player whose production only marginally exceeds one of the outgoing players in Crowder. Don't misinterpret: Crowder has a long way to go to be on Butler's level, but adding in the value of those two Brooklyn picks and the fact that Bradley is an All-Defensive first-teamer and established starter and it's just too much.


But I'm not running from the table. If I'm Boston, I'd counter by pulling Crowder but adding more picks (Nos. 16 and 23 this year do anything for you?) and a young player (maybe someone like 2015 first-round pick James Young, who is still only 20 years old and simply hasn't been able to make an impact in Boston yet).

Let’s say the two sides hammer this out and consummate a deal on draft night. Now the Bulls are on the clock at No. 3 with Brandon Ingram and Ben Simmons off the board. Who do you think the Bulls would desire? Could Kris Dunn start the process of moving Derrick Rose in a monster overhaul?

Friedell: Here's the reality, my man -- the Bulls could go in a lot of different directions and nothing would surprise me. They have a lot of holes on the roster right now. Dunn makes sense, but they also need a lot of scoring, athleticism and young big men to build around. In short, they need everything, especially knowing that all signs point to a divorce with Rose either this summer or after his contract runs out next season.

Forsberg: Let's call this into the league office so the Celtics can get started on their sales pitch to Durant in hopes that he, Butler and Thomas could form a new big three and give the Cavaliers a legitimate threat to worry about.


bob


.

You'd definitely take the Celtics situation over the Bulls

But you'd take the Timberwolves situation moving forward over the Celtics, that is for sure.

I like the Timberwolves young nucleus, Towns, Wiggins, Levine, Dieng all good young pieces.

who says you can't build through the draft?

cowens/oldschool wrote:I like the Timberwolves young nucleus, Towns, Wiggins, Levine, Dieng all good young pieces.

Yeah, plus Rubio is only 26-27 and they have the #5 pick in the draft

With the 5th pick in the Draft MN could draft the athletic PF Chris.

dboss

cowens/oldschool wrote:who says you can't build through the draft?

Cowens,

Until they actually do something, I do.

You have to rebuild, which means drafting and developing, but when was the last team a young team won the Championship, or even competed for one?  The closest one I can think of is GSW, and even then, Barnes is 24 and Thompson is 26 and everybody else is 28 and up.  The Spurs were old, the Heat weren't young neither.  We weren't young.  Nowitzki wasn't young.  The final rounds of the playoffs, EC/WC and Championship rounds, are for the "been there, done thats".

People use to say the exact same thing about the Atlanta Hawks in 2008.  "Oooh.  Look at how good and young their nucleus is".  Then Childress left, Horford got injured, Smith and Bibby got traded and





bob


.

The point is that you can start with the draft, then add pieces.
GS added Bogut and Iguodala to go along with Curry, Thompson and Green.

OKC has mostly done it through the draft, which is rare.

Boston, Minnesota, LA etc are all starting with the draft and then will attempt to add a star or stars.
I even think a star will be willing to go to Philly if their young talent really develops.
True success is probably a number of years away, but many are probably envious of Philly's roster.

Friedell: "What about Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, this year's No. 3 pick, and next year's Brooklyn pick (Boston holds the right to swap spots with the Nets)? "

For Butler?

This is what happens when you smoke crack or meth.

Fortunately Danny does not.

worcester wrote:Friedell: "What about Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, this year's No. 3 pick, and next year's Brooklyn pick (Boston holds the right to swap spots with the Nets)? "

For Butler?

This is what happens when you smoke crack or meth.

Fortunately Danny does not.

W

I want to see the Celtics first upgrade positions of need.

Then move forward with other upgrades where needed. I want to see a long term competitive team. I agree with TJ about building through the draft. It does not guarantee a championship but neither does adding top veteran players. The problem is that most fans do not have the mindset to stay the course and neither do the decision makers. Remember Joe Johnson and Billups.

Thank goddess coach Steven's knows how to coach a young team. I think he would prefer to develop home grown talent.

Dboss

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:who says you can't build through the draft?

Cowens,

Until they actually do something, I do.

You have to rebuild, which means drafting and developing, but when was the last team a young team won the Championship, or even competed for one?  The closest one I can think of is GSW, and even then, Barnes is 24 and Thompson is 26 and everybody else is 28 and up.  The Spurs were old, the Heat weren't young neither.  We weren't young.  Nowitzki wasn't young.  The final rounds of the playoffs, EC/WC and Championship rounds, are for the "been there, done thats".

People use to say the exact same thing about the Atlanta Hawks in 2008.  "Oooh.  Look at how good and young their nucleus is".  Then Childress left, Horford got injured, Smith and Bibby got traded

bob

The rotation of the 2015 NBA Champs played the majority of the 2014-15 season at these ages:

Curry - 26
Thompson - 24
Barnes - 22
Green - 24
Bogut - 30

Iguodala - 31
Lee - 32
Livingston - 29
Ezeli - 25
Speights - 27

Starters averaged just over 25 years of age. Reserves 29 years of age. 

That doesn't "come close" to being a young finals team, it is 100% a young NBA Champion.

I see the point in that most NBA champs have at least one of their 3-4 best players age 30 or above. Iguodala was the Finals MVP at age 31 on that young Warriors team.

The 2008 Celtics, 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs were particularly old teams. But they also had 22 year olds like Rondo and Kawhi playing huge roles and Tyson Chandler was a BEAST on those Mavs at age 28. 

The 5 all-stars not superstar 2004 Pistons were all between 23-29. 

Wade was 24 when winning alongside Shaq in '06 and Kobe 22-24 during the LA 3-peat. 

Jordan turned 30 four months before securing his 3rd title in 1993, so Pippen, Grant and BJ Armstrong were obviously younger. 

Magic played center for an injured Kareem at age 21 in 1980. 

Bird, Parish and McHale were 25, 27 and 23 in 1981. 

Clearly a mix of youth and experience is ideal in title contending teams.

Ram wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:who says you can't build through the draft?

Cowens,

Until they actually do something, I do.

You have to rebuild, which means drafting and developing, but when was the last team a young team won the Championship, or even competed for one?  The closest one I can think of is GSW, and even then, Barnes is 24 and Thompson is 26 and everybody else is 28 and up.  The Spurs were old, the Heat weren't young neither.  We weren't young.  Nowitzki wasn't young.  The final rounds of the playoffs, EC/WC and Championship rounds, are for the "been there, done thats".

People use to say the exact same thing about the Atlanta Hawks in 2008.  "Oooh.  Look at how good and young their nucleus is".  Then Childress left, Horford got injured, Smith and Bibby got traded

bob

The rotation of the 2015 NBA Champs played the majority of the 2014-15 season at these ages:

Curry - 26
Thompson - 24
Barnes - 22
Green - 24
Bogut - 30

Iguodala - 31
Lee - 32
Livingston - 29
Ezeli - 25
Speights - 27

Starters averaged just over 25 years of age. Reserves 29 years of age. 

That doesn't "come close" to being a young finals team, it is 100% a young NBA Champion.

Ram,

Yes that is a young group, and I think it also shows how a team can build through the draft.  Certainly there is no pure way to build; even on this roster there are significant players that were acquired rather than drafted. Still, I think the heart of the Warriors' young team came through the draft, and I don't think it's off base to say the team was built primarily through the draft. Curry, Thompson, Green, Barnes, Ezeli, McAdoo; all came in by the draft.  Of the other players brought in, none were what you would label as pricey top line free agents, but rather mostly proven role players.  You need some experience in the mix, yes, but the Warriors have shown that a fairly young lineup can be championship calibre.

I think this is a very good model for a team like the Celtics to follow.  Draft position plays a role, but smart scouting and drafting are more critical.

Regards