Our best lineup could be without a point guard

bobheckler wrote:

swish wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

swish wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

swish wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Here is the stat page from nba.com for defensive fg% of players 6'10"+ playing center.


Find Kelly Olynyk.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=D_FG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Height=GT%206-10&PlayerPosition=C


bob


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  Like plus/minus its another absolutely useless stat - Totally irrelevant.

 swish

Swish,

Why?


bob


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bob

 For openers -   Check out that ALL STAR LIST of 15 players that are rated ahead of Jordan.

 swish

Swish,

For one thing, being named to the All-Star team by the fans is meaningless since most fans are towel-waving, ballot-stuffing homies.  Dennis Rodman, pound-for-pound one of the best defensive players ever, was named to only 2 All-Star teams.  If you were just utilizing sarcasm as a vehicle, read on.

Almost all the players ahead of him played few minutes, Noah and Porzingis being notable exceptions, and they are both superior defensive players.  So, it makes sense that their (Noah and Zinger) numbers are better.  The numbers of the other players (NOT Noah and Zinger), therefore, are suspect.  Kelly, on the other hand,  played solid rotation player minutes.

Kelly defends all over the floor.  Partly because he plays PF (while Jordan will switch onto anybody in the paint precisely so he won't have to move far, and partly because Brad wants players to swarm.

One of the reasons why I quote /36mpg stats is because they show production per minute.  However, you cannot compare a player who plays 22mpg with one who plays 35mpg on a /minute basis.  SO, you cannot compare Jordan,  or even Pau Gasol, to a rotation player like Kelly.


bob


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 Below are the names of 20 players that ranked in the top 4 in terms of minutes played per game - and all ranked below Olynyk in dfg%. I wonder what number Olynyk (7th-8th rank) what have put up if his nightly competition had been the "A" team?

  http://bkref.com/tiny/6ad6Q


   swish

Swish,

I feel like I'm channeling Sam here a bit but "perspective is everything".  Most of Kelly's minutes have been against 2nd teamers, so OF COURSE that is who he should be compared to.  Comparing him to a starter makes no sense ESPECIALLY defensive specialists like Jordan.  DeAndre Jordan does two things, with NBA level competence, on the court: he blocks shots and rebounds.   A good reason he is so good at those two things is because he never leaves the paint, so he is always close to the rim and close to the boards.  How about comparing Jordan to Kelly for offense?  Now he looks like complete shit, doesn't he?  He can't create his own shot, can't dribble worth a damn, is a non-existent passer and has zero range beyond a dunk and all those things would be true if Jordan came off the bench.  None of those OFFENSIVE deficiencies would improve just because he was trying them against 2nd teamers.  He still couldn't shoot, pass or dribble.

Kelly is a 2nd teamer.  That is who he should be compared to keeping in mind there is a reason why 2nd teamers are 2nd teamers.   They are usually weak in a major facet of the game.  If they weren't they would be starters, if not here then somewhere else.  Kelly's specialty is long-range shooting and passing.  If Kelly's defense improves not one bit but he hits 40%+ from 3 like he did last year and just takes another 2 fgas/game from confidence that will add 2-3 points onto his average and open the floor up even more for slashers like Brown which he might not get statistical credit for but will happen because Kelly is dragging his big way out of the paint.  Adding 2-3 points per game on efficient shooting (40% from 3 is like shooting 60% from 2) is precisely the organic growth we are looking for.  Team defense last year, which includes Kelly's minutes, was not our problem, scoring was.



bob


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bob

My only point was to offer an opinion as to the value of the dfg% stat as it relates to Olynyk's high ranking in this Stat category.Based on your below comment you seem to be agreeing with me.

" I feel like I'm channeling Sam here a bit but "perspective is everything".  Most of Kelly's minutes have been against 2nd teamers, so OF COURSE that is who he should be compared to.  Comparing him to a starter makes no sense ESPECIALLY defensive specialists like Jordan.  DeAndre Jordan does two things, with NBA level competence, on the court: he blocks shots and rebounds.   A good reason he is so good at those two things is because he never leaves the paint, so he is always close to the rim and close to the boards."


swish

bobheckler wrote:

Swish,

I feel like I'm channeling Sam here a bit but "perspective is everything".  Most of Kelly's minutes have been against 2nd teamers, so OF COURSE that is who he should be compared to.  Comparing him to a starter makes no sense ESPECIALLY defensive specialists like Jordan.  DeAndre Jordan does two things, with NBA level competence, on the court: he blocks shots and rebounds.   A good reason he is so good at those two things is because he never leaves the paint, so he is always close to the rim and close to the boards.  How about comparing Jordan to Kelly for offense?  Now he looks like complete shit, doesn't he?  He can't create his own shot, can't dribble worth a damn, is a non-existent passer and has zero range beyond a dunk and all those things would be true if Jordan came off the bench.  None of those OFFENSIVE deficiencies would improve just because he was trying them against 2nd teamers.  He still couldn't shoot, pass or dribble.

Kelly is a 2nd teamer.  That is who he should be compared to keeping in mind there is a reason why 2nd teamers are 2nd teamers.   They are usually weak in a major facet of the game.  If they weren't they would be starters, if not here then somewhere else.  Kelly's specialty is long-range shooting and passing.  If Kelly's defense improves not one bit but he hits 40%+ from 3 like he did last year and just takes another 2 fgas/game from confidence that will add 2-3 points onto his average and open the floor up even more for slashers like Brown which he might not get statistical credit for but will happen because Kelly is dragging his big way out of the paint.  Adding 2-3 points per game on efficient shooting (40% from 3 is like shooting 60% from 2) is precisely the organic growth we are looking for.  Team defense last year, which includes Kelly's minutes, was not our problem, scoring was.



bob

Great post. Olynyk will hopefully fit into the future of this team as a big part of the bench as long as he keeps hitting 3's at 40%, stays healthy and can play slightly above average D against the bigs on other teams 2nd units.

Olynyk, Amir, Crowder and Rozier would be a great bench over the next 4-5 years, with Amir being replaced by a similar smart versatile big man in 2-3 seasons (possibly Yabusele or Mickey). That bench unit will also need a 10th man who is a scoring wing, and it is unfortunate Hunter and Young have bombed so badly after such promise on draft day. 

Thomas, Smart and Horford are clearly the guys we'll want to have starting for these next 4-5 years, in my opinion. In order to be a contender that can match the talent of Golden State that crew needs another very good big man who pairs well with Horford and a two-way wing with a bit more passing and upside than Avery/Crowder can offer. I don't think Zizic will be that big, but he will be an upgrade to Zeller and possible trade bait. 

Jaylen Brown could be that wing. But he also remains trade bait if a big man like Cousins (not Noel) is on the market. Avery to me is trade bait as well b/c he will want something like 5 years 110 million summer of 2018. Gordon Haywood for that amount in free agency next year would be perfect. But moving forward with the Crowder/Brown duo wouldn't be the end of the world.

Another great big man is clearly the biggest need this team has. Harry Giles is at this time considered a consensus top 3 pick (if healthy) and would be great to get with the Nets pick as a guy who will fully take over the other frontcourt position from the Amir/Olynyk duo by 2018-19 and be a Webber/Bosh type star from then on. Or if the Nets pick falls in the 4-7 range a lesser talent (as of right now) could still emerge and be a future all-star. Someone like Ivan Rabb, a sophomore who might be more ready to play from day 1, or two currently 18 year old kids in Isaiah Hartenstein from Germany and Johnathan Isaac who is attending FSU. 

Danny needs to hit on one trade or signing for a current all-star level talent and nail the Nets 2017 pick to push this team from 2/3 in the east and top 7 in the NBA to going to the NBA Finals 4 straight years and meeting the Warriors in 3 of those years like the 80's C's and Lakers rivalry. Remember, Horford is still a year younger than KG was when he arrived here in 2007, with WAY less miles on his body, and is the same age Kareem was in 1977-78, two years before Magic joined their team.