Joakim Noah is a stud

Hes got my vote for Most Improved Player,a certain poster was getting bashed during his rookie year for wanting him (if we hadn't done the Ray Allen deal)and I said then hes only a rookie.......but this kid has really exceeded all the pundits,the kid can defend and board like a madman,plays with alot of toughness and he looks like the best bigman out of that draft right now,who knew?good call Sam.....we got our title so it was worth it,but what might have been.

Sam and I both apprexciated Noah. i LIVE IN fl NOW AND SAW MANY OF HIS GAMES. hE IS A STUD WITH GREAT HEART.

Worcester, I believe you're talking about Notrade, who used to delight in posting some of his bull to me every time Noah so much as missed a shot.

Context is always important. At the time, the Celtics hadn't traded the #5 pick yet, and I thought Noah would be a good complement to what was shaping up to be a younger, faster team than we wound up with. I actually saw him backing up Al Jefferson so that the team could apply constant pressure at the center position, could give different looks to different teams, and so the ability I felt (and still do) was Rondo's strongest—open court passing—could be exploited to the fullest.

Of course, all of that changed when the team got Ray and KG, but Notrade never forgot it and continued to post whenever Noah coughed and disappear whenever Noah had a good game.

I'm still not certain Noah should be a starting center in the league, but I believe he'd be a good big man to play PF and occasional backup center.

By the way, Notrade just resumed posting at Boston.com. His latest "contribution" was to start a thread entitled: "Trade Paul Pierce next season before he passes Larry Bird." I only skimmed it for its comic value, so I don't know exactly what his point was; but there was some stat of honor he felt should never be achieved by Paul because Bird didn't deserve to be passed. I'm sure that's a factor Danny weighs heavily in his player personnel moves.

Sam

Yes Sam, Danny is vigilant about maintaining Larry's place of honor among Celtic record holders and will trade any palyer who threatens them forthwith. In fact he's negotiating a straight up swap with that Chinese team right now - Paul Pierce for Stephon Marbury.

Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

mrkleen09 wrote:Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

Noah's 74.3% free-throw shooting is not "an abomination." Rondo and Perk should be such abominations...

steve3344 wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

Noah's 74.3% free-throw shooting is not "an abomination." Rondo and Perk should be such abominations...

I will conceed that I am surprised to hear he is shooting that well from the line. But please tell me you are not going to sit here and tell us he has good form on his shot.

Cedric Maxwell had all he could do to not break out laughing every time he hoisted one up last night. 42% from the line - 42% from the field.

mrkleen09 wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

Noah's 74.3% free-throw shooting is not "an abomination." Rondo and Perk should be such abominations...

I will conceed that I am surprised to hear he is shooting that well from the line. But please tell me you are not going to sit here and tell us he has good form on his shot.

Cedric Maxwell had all he could do to not break out laughing every time he hoisted one up last night. 42% from the line - 42% from the field.

Who cares about form? I care about results. And that stats show Noah has improved from 67% last year to 74% this year. Wish I could say the same for Rondo or Perk.

I wouldn't care if he drop-kicked them in.

I dont know why you keep talking about Rondo and Perkins.

This is a tread about Noah.

mrkleen09 wrote:I dont know why you keep talking about Rondo and Perkins.

This is a tread about Noah.

That's because you were calling Noah's (74.4%) free-throw shooting an abomination. We have two starters on our team who would clearly love to be an abomination in that area like Noah is.

mrkleen09 wrote:Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

I like him better than those two right now,the interesting thing about Noah is he still has the same offensive liabilities that he had in college,but the intangibles,his strengths keep getting stronger,he does have a unique style of defending,a little bit of Camby and KG in him,hes not a Beast but some kind of dynamo.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

I like him better than those two right now,the interesting thing about Noah is he still has the same offensive liabilities that he had in college,but the intangibles,his strengths keep getting stronger,he does have a unique style of defending,a little bit of Camby and KG in him,hes not a Beast but some kind of dynamo.

With the expectations Portland has for a hopefully recovered Greg Oden, I'm sure they would never consider trading him even up for Noah.

But yeah, right now?? Today? With the fact that Oden is currently unavailable? Sure, I like Noah better right now. But for next year? Nah.

A defense with Noah and KG in his youth as the two big men would have been something

Maybe it would be too much energy..

steve3344 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

I like him better than those two right now,the interesting thing about Noah is he still has the same offensive liabilities that he had in college,but the intangibles,his strengths keep getting stronger,he does have a unique style of defending,a little bit of Camby and KG in him,hes not a Beast but some kind of dynamo.

With the expectations Portland has for a hopefully recovered Greg Oden, I'm sure they would never consider trading him even up for Noah.

But yeah, right now?? Today? With the fact that Oden is currently unavailable? Sure, I like Noah better right now. But for next year? Nah.

fair enough,but just based on Odens play before the injury and Noahs play this year,Noahs the better player,next year Noah could also be better and he led the league in rebounding earlier this season.His last 5 games since coming back hes avg 16 boards a game,Perk has never done that and don't think KG has it in him anymore to board like that either.

steve3344 wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:I dont know why you keep talking about Rondo and Perkins.

This is a tread about Noah.

That's because you were calling Noah's (74.4%) free-throw shooting an abomination. We have two starters on our team who would clearly love to be an abomination in that area like Noah is.

I called his FORM an abomination. Show me where I commented on his %.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Noah is turning into a game changer, but I am not buying that he is a better big man than Al Horford or (in long run) Greg Oden.

I like his rebounding and defensive energy - but that jump shot and free throw shooting is an abomination, to be kind.

I like him better than those two right now,the interesting thing about Noah is he still has the same offensive liabilities that he had in college,but the intangibles,his strengths keep getting stronger,he does have a unique style of defending,a little bit of Camby and KG in him,hes not a Beast but some kind of dynamo.

With the expectations Portland has for a hopefully recovered Greg Oden, I'm sure they would never consider trading him even up for Noah.

But yeah, right now?? Today? With the fact that Oden is currently unavailable? Sure, I like Noah better right now. But for next year? Nah.

fair enough,but just based on Odens play before the injury and Noahs play this year,Noahs the better player,next year Noah could also be better and he led the league in rebounding earlier this season.His last 5 games since coming back hes avg 16 boards a game,Perk has never done that and don't think KG has it in him anymore to board like that either.

Horford was an All Star this year. He is clearly the best big man from that draft for my money.

kleen
Horford is good,Howard literally eats him up,he can't do that to Perk or Noah what he does to Horford,just abuses him.....I'd take Noah and Perk over Horford. cow

cowens/oldschool wrote:kleen
Horford is good,Howard literally eats him up,he can't do that to Perk or Noah what he does to Horford,just abuses him.....I'd take Noah and Perk over Horford. cow

So now we are bringing Howard into it???

Cow - You would be the ONLY basketball fan I know that would take Perk over Horford. That is just silly and I like Perk. But Horford is a much more well rounded player that Perkins....sorry.

Kleen,

Although I certainly cannot speak for Cowens, after re-reading his last post it appears he's saying he would rather have a combination of Perk and Noah over the option of having just Horford.

If that's the case I would agree with him.

Regards

mrkleen09 wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:I dont know why you keep talking about Rondo and Perkins.

This is a tread about Noah.

That's because you were calling Noah's (74.4%) free-throw shooting an abomination. We have two starters on our team who would clearly love to be an abomination in that area like Noah is.

I called his FORM an abomination. Show me where I commented on his %.

You said "his free-throw shooting is an abomination." You didn't say his free-throw shooting FORM. His free-throw shooting ended up 74.4% this year. That's not an abomination.

mrkleen09 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:kleen
Horford is good,Howard literally eats him up,he can't do that to Perk or Noah what he does to Horford,just abuses him.....I'd take Noah and Perk over Horford. cow

So now we are bringing Howard into it???

Cow - You would be the ONLY basketball fan I know that would take Perk over Horford. That is just silly and I like Perk. But Horford is a much more well rounded player that Perkins....sorry.

the game is all about matchups,until Horford stops being eatin alive by Howard I'll take Perk who Howard has been quoted as saying defends him the toughest in the league,Perk towers over Horford.

Mrkleen

Cow isn't alone. Against more teams than not with OUR current lineup I'd take Perk over Horford.

beat

English and the typed message is a very interesting thing. We type in a message, thinking that our message is clear (it is in our minds), yet when another reads the message, enough leaks out to grasp onto to create a counter point. A couple times this has happened in this thread alone (in my mind, that is.)

___________________________________________________

Noah's free throwing and outside shooting style is very odd. I mentioned that on the Game On! thread the other day. To a purist, it could be considered an abomination. Noah's "air practice" before the foul shot is a one-handed straight shot a little above his head. When he actually shoots, he uses both hands on the sides of the ball, slightly favouring his right, and his release point is lower to the point of being in front of his face. It reminds me (just a little) of Rondo's release when Rondo passes the alley-oop to KG. Rondo's pass release point is much lower, but the actual release is a flick of the wrists, with the ball spending little time in the hand. At least, that is how I see it.

The 74% thing (74.3 or 74.4?, it makes a difference...Not!!!) Taking a single year, even if it is the most recent, and calling it the norm is a mathematical mistake. How did his FT's go in college? Was the 67% more indicative of the "norm" than the 74%. In math class, we learned to throw out the high and throw out the low and average the rest. That leads to a better understanding of the "norm".

Rondo and Perk BOTH show better form in their free throws. I have great hope for Rondo. He is showing an improvement, due in part to his better form. Perk? He doesn't seem to be able to get the dang ball over the lip of the rim, can you say, "short!!".

But this thread is not about Rondo and Perk. This thread is about Noah, who has a unique release when he shoots. If Noah was on the Celtics, don't you think we would be all over him about his form? I think YES!!

___________________________________________________

The other thing in this thread is the use of the word, "and", as in:

"I'd take Noah and Perk over Horford."

I don't want to put words onto anyone's mouth either, but after reading the entire thread, I took it to mean one of the following:

"I'd take either Noah or Perk over Horford." or just

"I'd take Noah or Perk over Horford."

The usage of the word "and" in the sentence is problematic and could (and did) lead to confusion. I'm not a "player-rater", just more of a numbers guy, but who wouldn't want BOTH Perk and Noah on their team if the other option was just Horford.
___________________________________________________

Please, I'm not suggesting we all bone up on our grammer and/or sentence structure. I'm just saying that there is a disconnect sometimes between the meaning of our writing (or intent) and another's interpretation of those words. We often don't take the time to use enough words so that vagueness is totally removed.

gyso

gyso
Sorry for my grammatical problems,but I meant I would take Perk or Noah over Horford,Noah plays with unique speed and tenacity,if we had him right now it would put an end to our rebounding woes.
cow

cowens,

Not a problem, I thought I understood the "or-ness" in your sentence.

I like Noah's game, have for a while. A focused energy guy with a little length? Yeah, we could certainly use a guy like that on our current team.

I don't tend to watch other NBA games, just the Celtics. I have "noticed" many good things whenever I have seen Noah play against the Celtics. I can't say the same thing with Horford. Maybe that's too small a sample size to make a judgement on my part, as to who of the two is the better player. Perhaps it comes down to situation.

The addition of either of them might improve our rebounding issues, but as an addition to, rather than a replacement of, Perk. IMO.

gyso